Default Gender

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen,

I am having an extremely difficult time keeping track of the genders of different people. Not to mention some people LIE about their genders, or make up artificial ones, etc.

So when I don't remember somebody's gender, I'm just going to use one of the gender pronouns. So I'm wondering your opinion: Is it more rude to accidentally call a boy a "she", or is it more rude to accidentally call a girl a "he"?

I am not going to use "e" and "erself" because I find them weird and jarring. And less comical.

Also, votes are public.

 

[Agent Intellect]

s/he?

 

[Words]

Voting here would mean lying. I can't vote. There really are several other methods. as shown below.

 

[Cognisant]

One should ideally be ambiguous when referring to hirself or others.

 

[pjoa09]

i think she would be appropriate unless u can use 'it'. or that. or the name of the person.

 

[Fleur]

Perhaps you could choose the default gender by your own gender (if female, use "she"; if male - "he")?

 

[Latro]

You could borrow from lojban:
Someone goi ko'a blah blah blah...ko'a blah blah blah...
If you have more people you can use ko'e, ko'i, ko'o, ko'u, fo'a, fo'e, fo'i, fo'o, fo'u; you can also reassign wherever you want, and the order in which you assign them doesn't matter. Doesn't matter what their gender is or anything.
Goi is pronounced like "boy" but with a hard g; the apostrophe is an h sound; the vowels are here: http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less1.html#less1vowels
This isn't a blatant plug, no not at all...

 

[walfin]

s/he, that person, tiu cxi

More commonly, keep using the person's moniker.

 

[lafmeche]

What walfin said.

I almost always use the person's name. If not, I tend to assume they're male unless I have good reason to believe otherwise (based on name, avatar, sig, etc).

I really doubt it matters, though. It's an internet forum that uses text almost exclusively. Mistakes happen. Plus, most INTPs probably wouldn't care enough to get worked up over it. (And even if they did care, they'd forget about it in five minutes )

 

[violetblue]

so true. (i'm female. i don't feel offended if someone calls me "he" on a forum. it doesn't really matter one way or the other.

 

[Decaf]

Use whichever one you want, and then slap yourself across the face so everyone knows you don't like it. I know its not the popular option among purists, or linguists, or anyone who cares about this issue, but I use "they" even when referring to a single person. Yes, it diminishes language's ability to define specifics, but hell, English has quite enough of that in my opinion.

In order to fix English entirely, yes, we would need to inject a genderless pronoun. I just don't have any confidence that it would take. We still have silent 'e's and 'b's, 'igh' sounds like a long 'i', and a long list of words with the same spelling, but different pronunciation. With a track record like that I imagine we'll get around to changing something that is ethically frustrating, but not innately nonsensical, right around the time we make 'weird' not an exception to the 'i before e except after c or when its spelled eigh like in neighbor or weigh' rule.

 

[sagewolf]

From a purely linguistic standpoint*, masculine pronouns can and should be used to refer to someone when you don't know the gender. Honestly, though, I don't care myself: if I'm in a mood, I'll correct you, but I'm generally not in a mood. (I've never cared what pronoun I was referred to as on the internet.) When I'm referring to someone and I'm not sure of their gender, I generally go with my gut, and if my gut has no convincing assertion to make, I default to the masculine: I can't help but think the vast majority of gender-neutral pronouns that have been invented for the English language look incredibly stupid.

And incidentally, what artificial genders? Where'd you see those, and why do you take offence? I'm curious.

*As far as English goes. At least we have a non-gendered pronoun for inanimate objects, okay? Apparently there are no female French dogs.

 

[shoeless]

i've got no qualms about defaulting to the masculine pronoun, and i do it frequently. frankly i fail to see the point in getting huffy about something like that. especially in such an ambiguous medium as the internet.

 

[Cavallier]

When composing a comment or post I tend to agonize over the gender. I generally reword the sentence so that I don't have to refer to the op with a pronoun that indicates gender.

Edit: Because of this I refuse to vote. I REFUSE!!!

 

[Kuu]

"it" is the easiest but a lot of people take offense at it...

Or you can learn from anime translations and use "that person"

 

[Zero]

I once made a discussion about my own pronoun, half jokingly, half wanting to experiment on people. In which I liked the pronoun "0" best (or it was decided the best or they liked it the best... regardless it won). Though people don't refer to me that way.

My way of making threads is occasionally, at it's most exciting I suppose: I lure the prey, then I bash it over the head with a blunt object, then I dissect it.

Deep down, what the FUCK do I care? I'm here to mess around. What if I'm called he, she, it, ze, 0? Oh my, they LIE about their gender, how terrible. I cry for you (sarcasm).

I also forget people's genders, so I tend to use the names, but I think I may very well use it as I'm getting sick of keeping track of everyone.

I'm apparently very excited, because I feel hitting things.

 

[Cavallier]

*shoos Zero off to the Arena*

I just washed the drapes. I don't want you hitting things and getting blood everywhere...again.

 

[Zero]

Fuck you. I made a relevant post.

Even if my MBTI feels 100% P right now. Am I the only one who gets bored and impatient?

 

[echoplex]

I tend to be conflicted about this issue. On the one hand, I don't think one gender's pronouns should take precedence over another's, and I generally favor using neutral words (like it, them, they, ze, etc.) when I'm not sure of someone's gender.

But on the other hand, I think people should embrace their gender. I don't really understand the desire to be ambiguous, or the desire for others to be ambiguous. Gender is simply another part of who you are, something you should happily own, imo. Of course, people will undoubtedly think of you at least somewhat differently after learning your gender, but they'll do that with every other detail as well. If I'm willing to tell people my hair color, my height, where I'm from, my age, etc. -- then I don't understand why I wouldn't want to them to know I'm male.

Then again, just because I don't understand it doesn't mean people don't have valid reasons for feeling that way. Failure to understand is my fault, no one else's. I'm sure there are situations where ambiguity can be advantageous, or funny, or just a matter of general apathy regarding one's gender. Perhaps there are other reasons I'm missing or not respecting enough.

As for the poll question, you should do whatever is more funny. In my culture, it would be more funny to call a male a 'she', so that's what I'm voting for.

In the absence of a right answer, the best one is always the funniest one. That said, there is no good reason why calling a man a woman should be funnier. It just is, and sometimes you have to work with what you have.

 

[Zero]

"It" is kind of looked down upon as implying something freakish. In Dracula, which I'm reading, they call the children "it"s. Sometimes the other pronouns are used, but it is odd to see "it" being used as a pronoun for a child. The stigma apparently wasn't there in the 1800s.

As for the poll. I'm not voting, as I've already made my ordeal about this. I cannot stop you from calling me whatever you want, but I vote for 0.

 

[Polaris]

I would find it amusing if someone got my gender wrong, and I don't care if I'm perceived either way.

I would generally use the person's forum name or s/he, unless the person has requested something specific.

The more confusion the funnier, as far as I think.

 

[shoeless]

potential history to referring to children as "it": in some foreign languages (at least german i know for sure), the pronoun for the world "child" is a neutral one. ie, "das Kind" is the german word for "the child" and "das" is the neutral pronoun (it). so technically a child is neutral. (and since english is a germanic language, that's probably just how it evolved.)

 

[Melkor]

Well, I always get mad when I'm mistaken for a girl, but I don't resort to violence until they get the bows out.

So, you may just call me 'sir' from now on.

 

[NoID10ts]

Well, I always get mad when I'm mistaken for a girl, but I don't resort to violence until they get the bows out.

So, you may just call me 'sir' from now on.

You'll always be my bitch, Melkor. Here ...... have a bow.

And I'd like to re-submit my idea of avatar genitalia that I offered up so long ago.

 

[Beat Mango]

How on earth do you not remember someone's gender :///

 

[Vatroslav]

Use the term "person"... or persons nick, if you can remember that... and s/he is not a bad suggestion...

 

[Jennywocky]

How on earth do you not remember someone's gender :///

I assume he's talking about forums, not real life... and sometimes you just don't know someone's gender... the username/av is either misleading or ambiguous.

I don't mind using generic "he."
Sometimes I will use s/he.
I'll sometimes also really break rules and use a genderless "they" for a singular pronoun.

However, more likely, I'll either (1) ask them or (2) word my post in a way to avoid gender.

If I'm just giving generic examples, I'll just pick one and be consistent -- male pronouns, female pronouns, or plural (they/them) to avoid it altogether.