Death on forum

[cheese]

(I only discovered this at the INFJs'.)

NeverAmI took his life sometime early this year - not sure when. I don't know how many of us knew him well, but I figured it was still worth mentioning. I remember noticing he'd disappeared. It's a pity the reason wasn't a fantastic new life.

I know everyone dies, but for someone to get to that point where they're able to overcome all fear and the innate distaste for doing harm to oneself, they must be pretty miserable. It's the fact that they suffered for so long and got to that stage, along with their death, that is so horrible.

Apparently there were some, but not very many, and not very clear warning signs. I know some of us here do care about each other, so it'd be nice if we could start paying more attention and being there for each other a little more. It's easy to dismiss signals as whining, or over emotionality, but even if all we can provide is a slightly more pleasant transition from life to suicide, that'd be good - at least so they know they're not alone. I don't know how to implement this though.

Also, it'd be good if we could set up some kind of system, so that if someone dies the rest of us will be alerted to it.
This is one way: http://www.deadmansswitch.net/

More ideas?



Sorry you're gone, NAI. It's pretty sad.

 

[Oblivious]

I hope he found peace at the end.

If I were going to die, I probably would not inform anyone of it. Maybe only close friends and family, or a farewell message.

 

[Bird]

Thank you, Cheese.

 

[EditorOne]

Yes, thank you, Cheese.

 

[Cavallier]

Wow. I'm glad you are spreading the word. There have been a few people that have abruptly stopped posting here over the last year that I've wondered about. It's difficult to get in contact with forum members though since we all tend toward secrecy when it comes to our outside lives.

 

[ApostateAbe]

If I die, I don't think it should be a concern of anyone online. If you think I just wanted to go somewhere else, or if you simply don't know, then what is wrong with that? Why would you instead prefer the knowledge that I died? So you know I will no longer be following up on my troll attempts?

I do not recommend deadmansswitch.net, unless you want emails sent to a few people telling them that you are probably dead just because you decided to take a break from the Internet and forgot to tell deadmansswitch.net.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

R.I.P.



I'm pretty sure I was in chat with him a few times, but I never really knew him personally. It's weird.

I do not recommend deadmansswitch.net, unless you want emails sent to a few people telling them that you are probably dead just because you decided to take a break from the Internet and forgot to tell deadmansswitch.net.

Yeah I thought about this too.

 

[dark]

The Dead Man's Switch is sort of cool, never saw it in anything other than fiction. Not something I would use, but still interesting.

 

[GYX_Kid]

saw some of his posts. he was an analytical and seemingly good man. RIP

how do you know, anyway?

 

[Fukyo]

saw some of his posts. he was an analytical and seemingly good man. RIP

how do you know, anyway?

He was an established member of the INFJ forum. So, there's a thread about it there. His irl friend and sister even registered to post some explanations for that occasion.

 

[Melkor]

He was never really active on here, but I enjoyed our short Arena mishaps.

I can think of a few members whom I suspect are deceased, it's frightening to think that those nobodies who dropped away could be lost to up forever.

 

[cheese]

If I die, I don't think it should be a concern of anyone online. If you think I just wanted to go somewhere else, or if you simply don't know, then what is wrong with that? Why would you instead prefer the knowledge that I died? So you know I will no longer be following up on my troll attempts?

Actually....that is one of my reasons. But only a small one. I can't really explain it beyond stating that it's an emotional thing, and that forums like these do allow for genuine bonds to develop. In the same way I'd like to know if a friend irl died, I'd like to know online as well. It's part of being connected. Even if it doesn't make sense, the feeling is still there.
Knowing someone's never coming back also closes off a section in your brain about them. You no longer wonder what they're up to, expect them to write, etc. I've lost contact with some people accidentally, and keeping that channel open if they're actually dead seems to me a waste of time.

I do not recommend deadmansswitch.net, unless you want emails sent to a few people telling them that you are probably dead just because you decided to take a break from the Internet and forgot to tell deadmansswitch.net.

Presumably if you made the choice to use it, you'd be careful. For anyone that frequently checks their email and has strong ties to a group of people, it might be useful.

Yeah Melly. What happened to RedMage? Doubt he killed himself though, he just thought we were lame.

 

[nexion]

I can think of a few members whom I suspect are deceased, it's frightening to think that those nobodies who dropped away could be lost to up forever.

Terribly so, indeed...

 

[socialexpat]

I never knew the man, i hope he may rest in peace.
It seems to be a recurring problem nowadays, the not so fantastic life and how people often prey on each other wether that is on based on competition trough profession or other trough means.

 

[Agent Intellect]

I have ideated about suicide.

If I decided I was going to do it, I know for sure that I wouldn't announce it here.

I feel like a complete asshole saying this, so don't read it if you are easily offended:

Spoiler

I don't respect 90+% of the people on this forum enough to let them know what I'm really feeling.

 

[cheese]

Well, you told us that, at least

I don't think we should push for suicide threads btw, though if that helps by all means go for it. A lot of the time a PM might work better.

This was more to point out that *sometimes you don't know how much other people, that you may like and respect yourself, care about you too, and therefore if you're in need of a little support it probably won't hurt to seek it out here.

*based on the infj forum thread as well; check it out if you want

 

[jzono1]

Depression and related problems that makes individuals likely to commit suicide is a tricky problem. On Norway's biggest forum I run a thread designed to help people who're struggling. I know my thread has helped people, but at the same time it has happened in the past in these threads there that people have said their goodbyes and left the world of the living.

(It's in norweigian, but here's a link anyway. http://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?showtopic=1219228)

I'd suggest looking into creating such a thread here. We don't really have enough volume for it to be a big problem yet, but even on a small forum such a thread can be helpful.

A quick overview on what it takes for such a thread to be useful:

-information. Especially regarding how to help. Emphasis on the importance of listening and avoiding "simple" solutions that don't work.
-contact info for help lines. Probably harder to pull off on an international site
-a short blurb specifically elaborating on how important it is to really think about what you do when you, or someone close to you reaches a point where the risk of suicide is immediate and serious.
-enough disciplined regulars to avoid it drifting out and becoming too negative
-if possible, guest posting - or possibly just hiding the thread from non-members

Suicide is a conversation killer, yet bringing it, and mental problems that can lead to it out in the light is what can help. It may seem cold & cruel to use somebody's death as an excuse to bring it up, but openness can save others.

A low threshold offering that lets people get help with taking the first, hard step is effective. Admitting that you're having dark thoughts, and need help ain't easy, any way we can help make it easier to take that step is worthwhile.

---

As for personal anecdotes about suicide; I still regret not acting quickly enough on the night that my friend shot himself. He botched it, and was lucky enough to survive; but still, it was a real eye-opener. I could have stopped him before it happened that night if I had been prepared.

Suicide is morally difficult. I believe it doesn't always have to be a bad thing, and I wish to die at a time of my own choosing myself. But it's something that should be approached in a rational way, not something that should be done impulsively. If you can't do it in cold blood when you're sober, it's not the right thing to do.

It scars whoever's left behind, in many ways. I saw it up close when my friend failed. I see how it left marks on a family in the neighborhood, even though it happened decades ago.

Being prepared is important. Personally I view being ready to handle that situation just as important as more traditional first aid. Even if you can't possibly react in time, being prepared makes it a bit easier to be a survivor.

 

[Jennywocky]

If I die, I don't think it should be a concern of anyone online. If you think I just wanted to go somewhere else, or if you simply don't know, then what is wrong with that? Why would you instead prefer the knowledge that I died? So you know I will no longer be following up on my troll attempts?

Didn't you ever see "Wicked"?
We need to have a magificacious celebration!

Srsly, it's kind of weird how online community is "community, but not." We feel like we know each other, yet we don't really know each other. A RL loss means an online community loss, but we don't even know what loss has occurred when it happens. People just vanish, for whatever reason.

So I can see why some might intellectualize about whether an online community even needs to be aware of a real-life loss as a matter of course. I guess depends on the role the online community played in one's life.

I do not recommend deadmansswitch.net, unless you want emails sent to a few people telling them that you are probably dead just because you decided to take a break from the Internet and forgot to tell deadmansswitch.net.

Well, that could create some interesting drama.
Something a troll might be interested in.

I guess one could go for a half solution; simply include name and phone number and address (of yourself and/or primary contacts), so that the person can check up on you and find out whether you're actually dead or you've just been celebrating in Aruba for five months and never bothered to come home.

I have ideated about suicide.

If I decided I was going to do it, I know for sure that I wouldn't announce it here.

I feel like a complete asshole saying this, so don't read it if you are easily offended:

Spoiler

I don't respect 90+% of the people on this forum enough to let them know what I'm really feeling.

But you just did tell 100% of the forum what you were feeling.
Generally.

 

[Minuend]

I have ideated about suicide.

If I decided I was going to do it, I know for sure that I wouldn't announce it here.

I feel like a complete asshole saying this, so don't read it if you are easily offended:

Spoiler

I don't respect 90+% of the people on this forum enough to let them know what I'm really feeling.

Your respect- I must have it.

Neurons are nothing without their glia cells =~(

 

[Lobstrich]

Why are people saying thank you?

 

[Dr. Freeman]

I think that they are trying to console grief.

I think...

 

[Reluctantly]

Why are people saying thank you?

Probably for being told about something they wouldn't have otherwise been aware of.

The funny thing about suicides is that people tend to feel badly for the dead person in some way, as if something horrible has happened to them, but really it's the other way around, it's the ones that are still alive that have to deal with the horrible things that life brings, not the dead. It kind of cracks me up actually. I'm probably a bastard.

 

[Lobstrich]

I think that they are trying to console grief.

I think...

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Lobstrich]

Probably for being told about something they wouldn't have otherwise been aware of.

That would seem obvious yes. But the people who said thank you, do they/you know the person who comitted suicide? If not, I still do not see a reason in saying thank you.

 

[cheese]

It could be for reviving and reinforcing an atmosphere (of caring, community, etc) that they appreciate. The depth of connection members feel to a 'community' here varies. For those with a stronger sense of belonging, such public recognition of the worth of individual members is comforting and affirming.

Bird did know him iirc (from the infj forum), and for some people remembering a dead friend publicly is a way of respecting them, and may help them (the mourners) move through the grieving process. It could also be something appreciated for an inherent emotional value visible to them but not everyone, hence your confusion over the reason behind the appreciation. These feelings don't require 'rational' reasons to exist, because they are instant, unwilled reactions rather than considered responses.

 

[Da Blob]

I think it would be polite to make accommodations for one's death. I know i often wonder when people disappear from the forum, whether it was because of something I said or because of something I did not, but needed to say...

Of course, it is nothing but egotism that leads onto this imaginary guilt trip. It is more likely that nothing I say ever makes a difference in an Other's life...

Anyway, being old myself, I plan to share my password with a few so they can notify my facebook friends, etc. of my passing over...

 

[Lobstrich]

It could be for reviving and reinforcing an atmosphere (of caring, community, etc) that they appreciate. The depth of connection members feel to a 'community' here varies. For those with a stronger sense of belonging, such public recognition of the worth of individual members is comforting and affirming.

Bird did know him iirc (from the infj forum), and for some people remembering a dead friend publicly is a way of respecting them, and may help them (the mourners) move through the grieving process. It could also be something appreciated for an inherent emotional value visible to them but not everyone, hence your confusion over the reason behind the appreciation. These feelings don't require 'rational' reasons to exist, because they are instant, unwilled reactions rather than considered responses.

I still don't really get why someone would thank someone for bringing news of death. The word thanks suggest appreciation and happiness/gain. But as you told me, Bird knew the guy, so that explains the thanking of you bringing the news.

But thank you for the informative reply!

 

[Fukyo]

The thanks are directed toward acknowledging the deseased, not the news.