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Dating my Temperament

Would you try a dating site based on temperament if it's cost was not a problem for you?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 35.0%
  • No

    Votes: 13 65.0%

  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .

Latent

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I'm a strong believer that dating by temperament is really the way to go. I'm of the Kiersian camp of matching temperaments like he does: Switching all letters except the 2nd letter e.g. ESTJs with ISFP's and ENFJs with INTPs. Being that INTPs and ENFJs are quite rare (especially female INTPs and male ENFJs) INTPs are not very rare here. Is there a site that attempts to match people by type?
I saw one site called typetango and it's search mechanism didn't work very well.

If there isn't a site like the one I'm thinking about, we should build one. I think I'm pretty darn savy at relationships and personalities and I'm sure at least a quarter of the INTPs in here know HTML so we'd make quite a team.

I just adore INTPs and want of my own.
 

Latent

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Ha, hell no I'm serious.

I think eHarmony and Match.com do not use tools that are as indicative as temperament can be.
 

Yet

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Being that INTPs and ENFJs are quite rare (especially female INTPs and male ENFJs) INTPs are not very rare here. Is there a site that attempts to match people by type?
that so? female INTP's especially rare? ... is that a fact? (just wondering)

anyways ... I do not know which types go well with each other, haven't really put any effort in finding out everything about it either cause I have this 'hunch' it is mostly 'made up' and not very scientific considering founders etc.
I am no big jung fan, he was more of a story make-upper than a scientist if you ask me (I nearly finished psychology) ... but I do enjoy the company of people here somehow ... I recognize the humor and approach they have ... so there might be some sort of truth in it so shame about the sloppy science ... bugger I am going al directions again ....

what I am trying to say is:
if you want to match you have to know what goes together (or at least make a theory / story about what goes together) or do you just want to match the same types?
Did this Kiersian guy/woman do some research about this or formulate a theory? Got a 'link' for me to have a peek?
 

Artsu Tharaz

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There are just as many female INTPs as male; vice versa for ENFJs.
 

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I think in the grand scheme of things it'd be silly to have a dating site revolve around typology. People are generally much more concerned with things like physical appearance, likelihood of sex and socioeconomic status than they are with MBTI (or whatever) type. I mean, would you really want to try dating people of a certain type exclusively, turning down other people because of their types, or would you just end up going through all the types on the site looking for someone you liked instead? If the latter it degenerates to being just like any other dating site for the user.
 

Reluctantly

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I'm a strong believer that dating by temperament is really the way to go. I'm of the Kiersian camp of matching temperaments like he does: Switching all letters except the 2nd letter e.g. ESTJs with ISFP's and ENFJs with INTPs.

Based on this, I predict your site to have a divorce rate higher than the national average!

When do the bets start?
 

notrightnow

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I suppose if the only factors at play were temperament types it might work. However, the real world doesn't work that way. Each individual has his/her own level of maturity as well as emotional and mental health. As mentioned, physical attraction is a factor that can't be sorted by MBTI.
 

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There are just as many female INTPs as male; vice versa for ENFJs.

How do you know that?

I'm going to argue that and here's my reasoning. I think we can agree that there are more males that have a T than an F in their temperament and vice versa.
 

Latent

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that so? female INTP's especially rare? ... is that a fact? (just wondering) what I am trying to say is:
if you want to match you have to know what goes together (or at least make a theory / story about what goes together) or do you just want to match the same types?
Did this Kiersian guy/woman do some research about this or formulate a theory? Got a 'link' for me to have a peek?

Are they rare? I read somewhere that INTP's are rare and I know that women with a dominant T over F is rare so a female INTP has got to be a diamond in the rough. I've known of only two female INTPs I think.

Yes, I believe that each type as a specific type for them but not every ENFJ & INTP would get along. Maybe the "ENFJ A" is not smart enough for "INTP B". Or "ENFJ B suffered to much as a child and "INTP A" lacks empathy. Not all people a type have the same strengths, nor do they have the same character. (Temperament being something you cannot control and character being something that is malleable). Temperament and character are the best observable attributes to matching people for great relationships, not "Do you like to watch TV" or "What kind of music do you listen to?". These are great attributes to find someone to hangout with but I'm sure we all can agree that if you found out the man/woman of your dreams didn't like the same music you would work around it somehow.

Here's an excerpt from www.Keirsey.com: <i>Dr. Keirsey recommends Rational-Idealist pairings and suggests that the best combinations would be the 'opposite,' that is, ENTJ with INFP, ENTP with INFJ, INTJ with ENFP, and INTP with ENFJ. Each of these pairs has the 'N' in common, but nothing else. Anecdotal evidence appears to support his suggestions. If the couple has too much in common, they are likely to have some obvious weak areas. For example, a Rational Inventor (ENTP) with an Idealist Champion (ENFP) have only one letter different. This couple is likely to have lots of fun generating ideas and excitement but may have difficulty actually bringing ideas to fruition. Also, it is likely that neither one of them will be wild about housework or maintenance. Couples with a lot in common may find it easier to communicate but may also find it more difficult to get everything done.</i>
http://www.keirsey.com/personalityzone/lz14.asp


As far as research goes, I think it's all observed inference. It is a soft science at best. He're a link about Keirsey http://www.keirsey.com/drdavidkeirsey.aspx

But my observations have match with 95% of David Keirsey's ideas and 80% of Paul Tieger's ideas. www.personalitytype.com
 

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People are generally much more concerned with things like physical appearance, likelihood of sex and socioeconomic status than they are with MBTI (or whatever) type.

I mean, would you really want to try dating people of a certain type exclusively, turning down other people because of their types, or would you just end up going through all the types on the site looking for someone you liked instead? If the latter it degenerates to being just like any other dating site for the user.


Temperament matters a lot if you know yourself very well. If you understand yourself a great deal then you'll know what you want quite clearly.

Furthermore, I believe that if one has correctly identified their own temperament and their "opposite" type's general profile does not sound generally attractive to them I think that person has character issues and needs to do more self-exploration/self-examination. It's a hell of a thing to say, but in my observations it rings very true. Failed relationships are a gold mine for data in understanding oneself.

Any dating site can be used to just "hook up" with someone.
 

Latent

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Re: Dating By Temperament

I suppose if the only factors at play were temperament types it might work. However, the real world doesn't work that way. Each individual has his/her own level of maturity as well as emotional and mental health. As mentioned, physical attraction is a factor that can't be sorted by MBTI.


You couldn't be more right. I didn't add all the other components to my idea because it would have taken a while but I should have typed in an escape clause at the bottom saying, "But there's more to this - Stay Tuned".

I covered more of the idea above in later posts. See post #11.
 

BigApplePi

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I think in the grand scheme of things it'd be silly to have a dating site revolve around typology. People are generally much more concerned with things like physical appearance, likelihood of sex and socioeconomic status than they are with MBTI (or whatever) type. I mean, would you really want to try dating people of a certain type exclusively, turning down other people because of their types, or would you just end up going through all the types on the site looking for someone you liked instead? If the latter it degenerates to being just like any other dating site for the user.
Mellllvar. I took one look at your new avatar and decided to hold off asking you for a date.:D
 

Fukyo

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Not much to say on the subject of Keirsey. He's a pure behaviorist, his approach is superficial. Nuff said.

Everything I've learned about typology and my life experiences shows me he has no idea what he's talking about. His whole pairing theory is painfully wrong. INTPs are absolutely toxic to ENFJs and vice versa. These people drain, frustrate and invalidate each other. I have no idea what he smoked when he came up with that, but my best guess is that his behaviorist approach to typing people lead him to completely mistype whomever he used as research sample for this brilliant conclusion.

Furthermore, I believe that if one has correctly identified their own temperament and their "opposite" type's general profile does not sound generally attractive to them I think that person has character issues and needs to do more self-exploration/self-examination.

and this is just ridiculously presumptions.

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=802&page=2#22


and in fact, the so called attraction to your opposite has been well covered in Jungian psychology. It's called "shadow attraction". We become attracted to what we subconsciously know is missing in our psyche. It's a form of projection and compensation, and it's far from healthy or developed as you suggest, because it leads to broken and unfulfilled relationships once the infatuation wears off.

http://www.cgjungpage.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=708&Itemid=40
 

BigApplePi

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One thing I am found of is the foundations of things. The Kiersey temperaments and the other ones are all about describing who you are, not how you relate. Dating is relational and that is different.

What is needed is a relational theory. I know of a modest one but I'd have to look it up. It divides people into four ways of the way they relate in two dimensions. Interested?
 

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INTPs are absolutely toxic to ENFJs and vice versa. These people drain, frustrate and invalidate each other.


Really? My two of my most favorite people are INTPs and we get along fantastically. I don't see why they couldn't. I love hearing their very well constructed hypotheses to everyday observances and expanding on them with them. One of the INTPs weaknesses is getting their ideas off the ground and into practice; that's what ENFJs do! ENFJs are like promoters except they expound ideas with gripping enthusiasm giving gratification and accreditation to the INTP.

Sensing types are to ground in reality. NFPs and I are too intense for each other. NTJs and I argue about procedure of everything and ENTPs could be the only other option. But I haven't known one that can't have a little humility when appropriate or know when to admit they were wrong with out having a conniption.

Please, tell me some possible pitfalls in a INTP/ENFJ relationship. Make up a scenario perhaps.
 

BigApplePi

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One thing I am found of is the foundations of things. The Kiersey temperaments and the other ones are all about describing who you are, not how you relate. Dating is relational and that is different.

What is needed is a relational theory. I know of a modest one but I'd have to look it up. It divides people into four ways of the way they relate in two dimensions. Interested?
This is not an easy thing to introduce for me. It's been years since I studied it. It's was called, "Social Style Strategies." I will say this from my notes without checking the internet because it's interesting:

People can be divided into four categories in two dimensions. They are very simple:
(1) Those who ask; (2) those who tell.
(3) Those who control; (4) those who emote.

One can try to match those up to Kiersey temperaments, but one is not supposed to try. The point is to classify oneself and others socially and then relate to them according to their style. Their social style is important because each of the four has different requirements or desires and if one doesn't choose the right way, they blow the relationship.

Each of the four social types is given a name. Here they are set up in quadrants:

Analytical | Driver
...............|..............
...............|..............
___________________________________
...............|..............
...............|..............
Amiable .. | Expressive

Guess which of these asks or tells & which controls or emotes.
 

notrightnow

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This is not an easy thing to introduce for me. It's been years since I studied it. It's was called, "Social Style Strategies." I will say this from my notes without checking the internet because it's interesting:

People can be divided into four categories in two dimensions. They are very simple:
(1) Those who ask; (2) those who tell.
(3) Those who control; (4) those who emote.

One can try to match those up to Kiersey temperaments, but one is not supposed to try. The point is to classify oneself and others socially and then relate to them according to their style. Their social style is important because each of the four has different requirements or desires and if one doesn't choose the right way, they blow the relationship.

Each of the four social types is given a name. Here they are set up in quadrants:

Analytical | Driver
...............|..............
...............|..............
___________________________________
...............|..............
...............|..............
Amiable .. | Expressive

Guess which of these asks or tells & which controls or emotes.

Is this what you're referring to? http://www.softed.com/resources/Docs/SSW0.4.pdf
 

Fukyo

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Really? My two of my most favorite people are INTPs and we get along fantastically. I don't see why they couldn't. I love hearing their very well constructed hypotheses to everyday observances and expanding on them with them. One of the INTPs weaknesses is getting their ideas off the ground and into practice; that's what ENFJs do! ENFJs are like promoters except they expound ideas with gripping enthusiasm giving gratification and accreditation to the INTP.

Sensing types are to ground in reality. NFPs and I are too intense for each other. NTJs and I argue about procedure of everything and ENTPs could be the only other option. But I haven't known one that can't have a little humility when appropriate or know when to admit they were wrong with out having a conniption.

Please, tell me some possible pitfalls in a INTP/ENFJ relationship. Make up a scenario perhaps.

The conflict is rooted in cognitive functions. INTPs dominant function is Ti, ENFJs dominant function is Fe. These two functions suppress each other. What a Fe user values, a a Ti user doesn't value and vice versa. If you you know how Ti and Fe work, it's easy to see. Practical examples aren't really reliable enough to illustrate that, you need to theoretically understand how the functions work. But you can have this one: INTP Forum

as to your claim, I have no idea if the people you're talking about are INTPs or if you are an ENFJ, but to me it's more than likely they are not, considering the conceptual framework you are using to type them.
 

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Ask is Analytical
Tell is Driver
Control is Amiable
Expressive is Emote

How does the categorization work?
Ask is Analytical - Control as well.
Tell is Driver - Control as well.
Control is Amiable - nope. They emote and ask.
Expressive is Emote - yep and they tell.
 

Latent

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The conflict is rooted in cognitive functions. INTPs dominant function is Ti, ENFJs dominant function is Fe. These two functions suppress each other. What a Fe user values, a a Ti user doesn't value and vice versa. If you you know how Ti and Fe work, it

Uh huh. That link you inserted is definitely not me. That was an idiotic sensible person who doen't like keeping the topic abstract. I encourage and nurture ideas much like a catalyst - not just a supporter who hands them a water bottle as the run by. ESFJs, you might imagine, are not, by nature very intuitive and I'm afraid you might be confusing them with me.

I use my Fe to interpret my Ni which is amazing. With this setup, ENFJs are potentially the best at inductive reasoning or reverse engineering. As INTPs are great at deductive reasoning, the two match up quite well in my opinion to come up with sound hypotheses that are both in depth and practical.

Most very happy couples I've know have Ti/Fe or Te/Fi. The best conversations I've ever had we're with "Ti"s and "Fe"s.

Do you know any Male ENFJs? Female ENFJ's, I find, are annoying unless they are very smart.

Here's another topic that's inline with this one that has been posted as a new thread: http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?p=227705#post227705
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Males with dominant or axillary Feeling as well as Females with dominant or axillary Thinking have a similar predicament. In a world that is dominated by thinking males and feeling females, gender roles and social norms take a toll on F-Men and T-Women. Growing up, I thought I was supposed to be colder to people and not care about things as much as I did. The same goes for girls who grew up favoring thinking over feeling. They were probably great in math but has to deal with being a "brainiac" which doesn't sound so bad except for the negative social stigma. Thinking girls typically take a tomboy edge growing up which is "not normal".

The point I want to make is Thinking Women and Feeling Men (esp. EJs and IPs) are kind of in a special situation where they grew up questioning and understanding their shadowed Judging function which society inevitably begs them to exhibit. The degree of extra mental work put in to understand themselves in relation to others is rarely put in T-Males and F-Women during childhood. Their temperament gave them a little more insight into others as well as understanding themselves.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

And with that I am pointing out that most Male ENFJ's are by no means ditsy but wishes to understand how the world works just as much as INTPs.
 

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I think the whole temperament thing is interesting, and I would be up for finding somebody based on our... mental, internal similarities? I don't know what to call it. Yet, since I don't believe it generalizing and labeling an entire, very large group of people, I don't know how successful it'd be. Also, you'd be creating a whole new form of prejudice.

"Oh, she's an ENTJ? I see. I don't know why you're dating her -- I hear those girls are beyond annoying, and pretty smug if you ask me."

But hey, it's a decent idea. INTP's are hard to come across in real life sometimes because they're kind of hard to talk to, and kind of hard to find... Sometimes I feel like being cheerful turns people off, and I'm labeled stupid and not worth it to speak to.. at least, probably by INTP's.

But hey, what's that? A GENERALIZATION.

It has already started :o
 

Artsu Tharaz

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How do you know that?

I'm going to argue that and here's my reasoning. I think we can agree that there are more males that have a T than an F in their temperament and vice versa.

There are just as many T's and F's in each gender. Males of each kind will tend to be less emotional and social, or however you want to phrase it, but are nonetheless just as likely to be feelers in the Typing sense as are females.

How do I know that? It makes sense to me. How do you know it's not the case? It makes sense to you (backed up I guess by common opinion and the results of a silly, silly test).

Time will tell.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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How will you know the results are accurate?
 

Artsu Tharaz

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More than one saying the same thing = reliable, not valid.

Perhaps you could show that the test actually measures the different ways the functions can be divided up in a person, and not just some very crude approximation. I'm sure there would be readily available research explaining how they were able to make sure that it did. Right?
 

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More than one saying the same thing = reliable, not valid.

Perhaps you could show that the test actually measures the different ways the functions can be divided up in a person, and not just some very crude approximation. I'm sure there would be readily available research explaining how they were able to make sure that it did. Right?

I hope so. I just took an online type test www.personalitymax.com ($37 ugh) but the report said that 58% of thinkers are male. 12% of the population are NTs, 9% of the population are NT males. 62% of NFs in the population are female. 1.5% are INTPs.

I can produce this document to you if you'd like to see it. I thought it was interesting; not worth $37.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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Lol. Certainly not worth $37. Did they mention how they know that their result would be accurate? I'm sure it's close (reading a short description about what the test is trying to determine, and then making a guess about yourself probably would be pretty close too...), but there's still going to be a pretty big margin of error, and non-Type related gender differences could easily influence the result. Don't trust the MBTI.

This particular test had many questions that I hadn't really seen before, and were less generic than your typical internet MBTI, but it still won't reach a level of accuracy where you can be confident with the result. Charging so much money for it is absurd.
 

terraxceles

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And with that I am pointing out that most Male ENFJ's are by no means ditsy but wishes to understand how the world works just as much as INTPs.

This is true, but an ENFJ's paradigm of understanding the world is completely different from an INTP's. They have Ti way down as their inferior function and they associate with it almost exclusively to calibrate their examinations of the social order/practical aspects of the world and how they can be tweaked in order to maintain harmony. INTPs are the opposite of this, INTPs thrive to understand the more philosophical elements of life, and their endless, endless theorizing would annoy the ENFJ's Fe+Ni to no end, which is always coming to conclusions. ENFJs can detach themselves from their dominant function, but it is rare, and don't do this often because it is a complete disassociation with everything they stand for.

I have an ENFJ brother and while he is intellectual, well-read and has incredible insights into situations, even my tertiary Ti proves too much for him to handle. He does not value intellectual effort without clear, practical application that he can measure in terms of how it affects people as whole. INTP's dominant Ti would really be like beating them with a bat on the head. (And this is only speaking from a intellectual/cerebral point-of-view. ENFJ-INTP on a romantic level could never work, they have completely different modes of communication. Dominant T vs. Dominant F is as far apart as you can get.)

---------

Here's a discussion I had with my brother over whether or not morality is relative (I'm paraphrasing):

INFJ: Consider this. There are two primitive men in an uncivilized setting, without any moral code to dictate their behavior. One man kills the other and eats his flesh. Do you believe he will feel guilt?

ENFJ: But then, another person appears and tries to kill the first person. Naturally, the first person would object, "I'm the predator, I'm not the prey, I am like you! Let's hunt someone else." They approach another person and the previous sentiment is repeated with this person as well. So in order to ensure the continuation of their species, they decide not to kill each other, and hunt other species. This is how morals become standard, and this is why murder is immoral.

INFJ: But there are no other people, and there are no more variables in this supposition. If he does not have a moral code that he has learned, he will not feel remorse regarding his actions, as there is no dictation for him to follow. Thus, morality is relative.

ENFJ: If there are no other people, then the person's psychological state can hardly be compared with ours. The question is inconsequential to what will happen in reality.

And that, in a nutshell, is ENFJ.

---------

EDIT
I forgot to write a proper conclusion:

INTPs do not communicate this way, intellectually. INTPs are concerned with objectivity while removing all contextual bias. ENFJs cannot disassociate themselves from the context, without experiencing a massive drop in energy. While they both bring fabulous insights into situations from their own perspective, their modes of communication are too far polarized (Fe and Ti) to handle each other for extended periods of time. They are incompatible types; they invalidate each other's dominant function and they are helpless in doing so. An INTP would drain an ENFJ and vice versa.

As for the topic itself; it could never work. While there are some congruences in terms of type compatibility, the odds of people mistyping and ending up with people they share nothing in common with would be too high, which would prove to be a pretty inefficient system overall. I might have far more luck going out to the bar and meeting a girl, by sheer chance, that I really click with, than trying to make it work with someone whom a website tells me is the perfect match for me. (Then again, isn't that online dating in general?)

Anyway, cheers. :)
 

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I have accounts on different dating sites. And offers to meet up. But I never went to a date from those for real. Not overly interested in dating. However, if an accurate enough system can be worked out, it may change my interest. As it is, they seem to be too much of a blind shot.
 

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Latent, if you want examples of what is being described here, I remember at least one thread in the "Human relationships" section which was that of an ENFJ trying to make things work between herself and an INTP she fancied.

From what I read (and an extensive amount was written), it went exactly as described by terraxceles in his edit.

Agapooka
 

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Here's a discussion I had with my brother over whether or not morality is relative (I'm paraphrasing):

INFJ: Consider this. There are two primitive men in an uncivilized setting, without any moral code to dictate their behavior. One man kills the other and eats his flesh. Do you believe he will feel guilt?

ENFJ: But then, another person appears and tries to kill the first person. Naturally, the first person would object, "I'm the predator, I'm not the prey, I am like you! Let's hunt someone else." They approach another person and the previous sentiment is repeated with this person as well. So in order to ensure the continuation of their species, they decide not to kill each other, and hunt other species. This is how morals become standard, and this is why murder is immoral.

INFJ: But there are no other people, and there are no more variables in this supposition. If he does not have a moral code that he has learned, he will not feel remorse regarding his actions, as there is no dictation for him to follow. Thus, morality is relative.

ENFJ: If there are no other people, then the person's psychological state can hardly be compared with ours. The question is inconsequential to what will happen in reality.

And that, in a nutshell, is ENFJ.

Anyway, cheers. :)

I actually agree with this. But both of you guys are right. Being that the "question is inconsequential to what will happen in reality", morality is relative.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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INTPs do not communicate this way, intellectually. INTPs are concerned with objectivity while removing all contextual bias. ENFJs cannot disassociate themselves from the context, without experiencing a massive drop in energy.
So... INTP's won't consider situations that aren't hypothetical, ENFJ's won't consider situations that are? Or perhaps INTP's also consider non-hypothetical situations, but only consider factors that are only relevant to logical analysis, and refuse to look at what is actually important with regards to what action should be taken - and that because they each refuse to input information which will be relevant to the goals of the other, any communication between them is futile. Is that what you're saying?
 

EyeSeeCold

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^ That's BS. ENFJs can be philosophical.
 

Latent

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INTPs are the opposite of this, INTPs thrive to understand the more philosophical elements of life, and their endless, endless theorizing would annoy the ENFJ's Fe+Ni to no end, which is always coming to conclusions. ENFJs can detach themselves from their dominant function, but it is rare, and don't do this often because it is a complete disassociation with everything they stand for. ... INTP's dominant Ti would really be like beating them with a bat on the head.

An early side note: In a relationship, would you do this theorizing to purposely think them into submission? -Probably not, but I understand INTPs love to deduce hypotheses from their abstract observations - what a coincidence that ENFJs love to use inductive reasoning to form hypotheses from abstract observations as well. I have four INTPs and they do lots of hypothesizing (not theorizing) and I stay right on with them because I love to learn.

Regarding our tale you reported with your brother: He didn't even answer the question you asked. ENFJs are not characterized by an inability to follow directions. If he would have said, "Yes he would feel guilt because he would think 'humans aren't prey, we're predators'..." or something, it would have been a different story. I hope your assumptions of ENFJs aren't based mostly on the analysis of your brother whom became side tracked by his own altruistic convictions; an immature ENFJ mistake.

INTPs are concerned with objectivity while removing all contextual bias. ENFJs cannot disassociate themselves from the context, without experiencing a massive drop in energy.

I realize constantly that as a human with feelings, (you are too you just don't like them in conversation apparently) their will always be subjectivity. ENFJs become dogmatic in their hypotheses especially when they are in an emotional mood because they skip may a lot of steps in thinking (Ti) along the way. It is for this reason they are drawn to the INTP to hear them out and use that objective thinking to help them sort out their mental knots.

ENFJ's are intuitive and value objectivity because by nature they like to function from their knowledge, just like INTPs do. But if the ENFJ is ignoring rationality: then they have personal unsolved issues and/or is not an intuitive type at all. If ENFJs are having a hard time following the INTPs perpetual hypothesizing and re-hypothesizing they may 1) not be as smart as the INTP, or 2) not have thought along those lines before and needs time to process the info. If they give up altogether it's because you've out thought them. But then there lies I crucial moment where the INTP can say, "There, there... don't feel discouraged, I think I have some finger paint. Would you like to finger paint?" and make them feel like a moron because here's a dominant thinker taking on explaining particle physics for the first time to a bottom function thinker. OR they can say, "Yeah, it is a difficult subject. Let's drop it for now and talk about something else." because having your mate understand the most difficult things you can roll around effortlessly in your head should not be a criterium. The passion and imagination ENFJ's bring to the table in a relationship while understanding maybe 70-80% of what you're capable of is a pretty good deal. I'm just saying I hope that seeing if your potential mate can dodge being thunk into a corner is a must then you may want to broden your scopes.

Do even you think INFPs, INFJs or ENFP's are a good match for INTPs? I can't see two NTs in a relationship with out snapping or feeling unfulfilled and bored. and surely you don't suggest a sensible type - wretched things.

I took a $37 dollar type test (personality max.com) and they said I was an ENFP.

95% N <-> 5% S
68% F <-> 32% T
84% E <-> 16% I

Thinking I was an ENFJ, maybe I was mistakenly portraying the personality of an ENFP as an ENFJ. I'm close to both I think.
 

terraxceles

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I wrote a much longer reply to this, but somehow I've lost it. Grr.

So... INTP's won't consider situations that aren't hypothetical, ENFJ's won't consider situations that are? Or perhaps INTP's also consider non-hypothetical situations, but only consider factors that are only relevant to logical analysis, and refuse to look at what is actually important with regards to what action should be taken - and that because they each refuse to input information which will be relevant to the goals of the other, any communication between them is futile. Is that what you're saying?

Not necessarily hypothetical, but relating to the INTP's internal logical framework, then yes, INTPs would always find it more rewards to make judgment calls based on it, and ENFJs would always find it more rewarding to make judgment calls based on the collective ethical model. Both types have the ability to see thing from each other's point-of-view, but they find it draining because it is a stretch to use your inferior function out of its cognitive hierarchy.

This is the overly simplified version of what I meant. I'll elaborate later, if required.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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Latent, you should do a fair bit of research into the cognitive functions, what they all mean and how they work and so on. Once you understand them well enough you should be able to identify which pair of the rational and irrational functions applies to you (whether each of NSTF works introvertedly, i.e. is dependent on you as a person, is experienced in your head; or extraverted, i.e. depends ont he environment, is experienced outside of your head), while having a clear idea of how the others work by contrast. Try fitting yourself to different combinations. For the sake of better understanding what you are vs. what you're not. Don't just limit it to the ENFx's. Try and get a feel for as many types as you can.

ENFP = Ne+Fi:Te+Si
Ne: You are primarily concerned with external possibilities - the different ways a situation might progress, whether they are realistic or more imaginitive. This function is extraverted, so it experienced outside of your head - you can sort of see these possibilities environmentally. This is dominant = it's your main way of being.

Fi: internally, you are deliberate in your thinking, and when you go into yourself you are evaluating how you feel about things, whether it is something you like or dislike, something that is good or bad. This is auxiliary = it's still a significant part of you, and helps to aid the dominant function.

Te: when you're not just experiencing a flow of possibilities, and need to be more structured in your environmental dealings, you turn to Te - working to achieve goals, sequencing tasks for efficiency. This is tertiary = it's not so defining, and is used as a semi-regular back-up.

Si: this is used infrequently, but when you want to remember something you'll do it in a literal sense, experiencing prior experiences is a direct fashioin, and using it to compare things in the environment to this store of impressions. This is inferior = to do this is quite difficult and energy draining.

vs.

ENFJ - Fe Ni Se Ti
too tired at the moment lol
Structured social behaviours, flowing intuitive thought, perceiving environment on a sense basis, thinking logically, yada yada
 

Artsu Tharaz

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I wrote a much longer reply to this, but somehow I've lost it. Grr.



Not necessarily hypothetical, but relating to the INTP's internal logical framework, then yes, INTPs would always find it more rewards to make judgment calls based on it, and ENFJs would always find it more rewarding to make judgment calls based on the collective ethical model. Both types have the ability to see thing from each other's point-of-view, but they find it draining because it is a stretch to use your inferior function out of its cognitive hierarchy.

This is the overly simplified version of what I meant. I'll elaborate later, if required.

It just seems to me that the fact that they are energised by different modes of thinking would be a good thing, in particular if they can find common issues which interest them, since they can solve different parts of it independently.

Ti can deal with clarifying and logic, Fe can deal with social contexts. The Ne vs. Ni can play off of each other to collaborate while the respective dominant functions are sorting things out.
 

terraxceles

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Regarding our tale you reported with your brother: He didn't even answer the question you asked. ENFJs are not characterized by an inability to follow directions. If he would have said, "Yes he would feel guilt because he would think 'humans aren't prey, we're predators'..." or something, it would have been a different story. I hope your assumptions of ENFJs aren't based mostly on the analysis of your brother whom became side tracked by his own altruistic convictions; an immature ENFJ mistake.
I run into ENFJs uncharacteristically often. So no, it's not solely based on my brother, I just reiterated one conversation I had with him as an example.

If they give up altogether it's because you've out thought them. But then there lies I crucial moment where the INTP can say, "There, there... don't feel discouraged, I think I have some finger paint. Would you like to finger paint?" and make them feel like a moron because here's a dominant thinker taking on explaining particle physics for the first time to a bottom function thinker. OR they can say, "Yeah, it is a difficult subject. Let's drop it for now and talk about something else." because having your mate understand the most difficult things you can roll around effortlessly in your head should not be a criterium. The passion and imagination ENFJ's bring to the table in a relationship while understanding maybe 70-80% of what you're capable of is a pretty good deal. I'm just saying I hope that seeing if your potential mate can dodge being thunk into a corner is a must then you may want to broden your scopes.
Here's the thing: INTPs don't naturally validate the ENFJ's dominant function (Fe). To do so would be to stretch into their inferior and this is a draining activity for the INTP, as it would be for the ENFJ to access their Ti out of its cognitive hierarchy. The relationship would be entirely skewed as when one person feels validated, the other doesn't without draining themselves psychologically.

Your INTP friend telling you, "there there, don't feel discouraged" (doesn't strike me as very INTP, but regardless) is not enough validation for a romantic relationship to work.

Do even you think INFPs, INFJs or ENFP's are a good match for INTPs? I can't see two NTs in a relationship with out snapping or feeling unfulfilled and bored. and surely you don't suggest a sensible type - wretched things.
INFJs and ENFPs more than INFP, though NTs would probably validate the INTP's dominant function far more naturally.
 

terraxceles

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It just seems to me that the fact that they are energised by different modes of thinking would be a good thing, in particular if they can find common issues which interest them, since they can solve different parts of it independently.

Ti can deal with clarifying and logic, Fe can deal with social contexts. The Ne vs. Ni can play off of each other to collaborate while the respective dominant functions are sorting things out.

It is a good thing, which is why ENTJ is supposedly the best match for INTPs, as ENTJs also deal with social contexts and practicality, like ENFJs, but their primarily mode of communication is through logic, which the INTP understands. The interaction is not only highly validating for either parties (T vs. T, N vs. N) but also inspirational in helping each other reach their lower functions, i.e. the ENTJ's Te inspires the INTP to reach their Fe on terms of logic, as their cognitive hierarchy suggests.

The ENFJ's preference for Fe is suppressive to the INTP's preference for Ti, as it brings out the INTP's Fe out of its cognitive hierarchy, which the INTP would find incredibly draining.

There was an extremely long winded discussion on this a few months back where a few people thoroughly elaborated on this topic. I tried doing a cliff-notes version of it, but there is way too much content which should best not be taken out of context.
 
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