Dating insight, for young INTPs

[Minuend]

No, I'm talking about your attitude toward Polaris.

I'm not one of the cool chicks, no. I refer to my very recent post

 

[Cognisant]

No, I'm talking about your attitude toward Polaris.

My attitude was predicated upon having given up so your remark about not getting to date the cool chicks is clearly in reference to the period prior to that change in attitude.

Freudian slip maybe?

 

[Minuend]

Perhaps there never was a change in attitude

 

[Etheri]

My attitude was predicated upon having given up so your remark about not getting to date the cool chicks is clearly in reference to the period prior to that change in attitude.

Freudian slip maybe?

In all honesty, I do think that the last sentence was somewhat uncalled for. Sure, you apologised in the very same sentence,... But I don't think I can go around hitting people in the face, while saying I'm sorry and meant to punch them in the nicest possible way. In the end, Polaris did no diffrent than you : You're both giving advice in regards to dating. I don't genuinely care, and I don't think Polaris should feel offended, but I do think you could have put things more nicely, or simply let the last part out.

That being said, I do agree with main point Cognisant made... And that is to not actively search -not knowing how and if it'll help- and just living life pleasing yourself. I mean, you don't need to date to fall in love, to find someone. And as we ALL agree, dating rarely works...

As cog said, it is indeed a numbers game. So why would we actively play it, feeling bad whenever it goes wrong, if we could simply live our lives while passively playing it, feeling good because we don't realise we're constantly 'losing'? (Are we even losing, when we're not actively playing? Can I even lose, when i'm not actively playing?! I guess I can, because if I played actively, I might have won more, and not winning more would mean a loss. However, since I wouldn't realise, I also wouldn't care...)

PS. @Polaris, I was too lazy to translate it through google, but if i got it right, we have the same saying in dutch : 'Stille waters hebben diepe gronden'. (still water runs deep?)

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I had this strange dream last night where I was in a long term relationship with a woman with similar morals to myself and found statistical modelling, finance and borderlands interesting. Then I woke up and was like:

 

[Deleted member 1424]

This thread is... odd.

A little observation and abstraction... Statistics of divorce and infidelity... Evolutionary history...

Humans ARE NOT a monogamous species and they never have been. Yet it's also true that they crave social bonds and that they need them in order to feel secure and confident. These days they expect it all from one ideal person... conveniently ignoring how they themselves are completely unfit to be a similar ideal to anyone else.

Foolish humans.... they've wrapped themselves up in an inescapable web of catch-22s. They suffer and struggle even though it's not needed.

Bah
The human race is insane.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

This thread is... odd.

A little observation and abstraction... Statistics of divorce and infidelity... Evolutionary history...

Humans ARE NOT a monogamous species and they never have been. Yet it's also true that they crave social bonds and that they need them in order to feel secure and confident. These days they expect it all from one ideal person... conveniently ignoring how they themselves are completely unfit to be a similar ideal to anyone else.

Foolish humans.... they've wrapped themselves up in an inescapable web of catch-22s. They suffer and struggle even though it's not needed.

Bah
The human race is insane.

Just give in. Join us. You know you want to.

 

[skip]

I had this strange dream last night where I was in a long term relationship with a woman with similar morals to myself and found statistical modelling, finance and borderlands interesting. Then I woke up and was like:

Oh, man. I've had that happen. It's horrible when you realize it was all nothing.

 

[Polaris]

So I don't have to repeat myself, and because I think it relates to this thread.

Apologies to @Polaris in advance for posting a pm.

What the hell, @Cognisant?

I take back all the nice things I said about you. You looking to get a ban again?

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

What the hell, @Cognisant?

I take back all the nice things I said about you. You looking to get a ban again?

Self-destruction is where it is at?

Like, what the hell am I doing in this thread? I should be working...

 

[Polaris]

In all honesty, I do think that the last sentence was somewhat uncalled for.

PS. @Polaris, I was too lazy to translate it through google, but if i got it right, we have the same saying in dutch : 'Stille waters hebben diepe gronden'. (still water runs deep?)

Point one: What Cog said to me is absolutely irrelevant, I understand his humour and did not take offence at all to that. Please, people....do not get your judgement clouded.

The important point that is missed here, and what I am really f...ed about is the fact he posted a confidential correspondence between him and myself without asking me first. This is uncalled for, and he knows better than to do unbelievably stupid things like that.

Point two: Yes, the translation is correct.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Just give in. Join us. You know you want to.

eh? If I actually wanted to, that would make things much easier on me.


@Polaris
Ah, so he didn't ask.
That's a rather egregious disrespect for your privacy.

 

[Polaris]

@Polaris
Ah, so he didn't ask.
That's a rather egregious disrespect for your privacy.

Exactement.

 

[Puffy]

That being said, I do agree with main point Cognisant made... And that is to not actively search -not knowing how and if it'll help- and just living life pleasing yourself. I mean, you don't need to date to fall in love, to find someone. And as we ALL agree, dating rarely works...

Not sure about 'living life pleasing yourself.' Relationships (friendships and romantic) are about two people, their pleasure and your pleasure. From an ethical standpoint your relation to others is the most important responsibility to, in my opinion. Hopefully, no practice goes wasted.

Agree with @Adaire 's post on the pressures put on a single individual because of monogamy; it's inherently resistant to change in a way, because it's like, for two people to remain 'ideal' for one another begs a kind of stasis to sustain it (I guess it's why fundamentalism and monogamy go hand in hand *drum fill*) I find the idea of being with one person forever frightening, it feels almost damaging, I don't know.

I'd like to think that I'll never need an external service to find friends. So likewise, I imagine I'll find partners the same way I find friends, there's just more pressure and expectation so it demands more confidence.

 

[Words]

I guess I'm the only one on the "active" side. passiveness...how stagnant, how boring, how lifeless. what about being an agent of cause? I think therefore I am? I act therefore I am? Existence precedes essence? er... wait, what are we talking about again? Dating? MBTI? Ideals? "Picking up" People? and woah adaire, the 'human race'? Monogamy? meh, I think socialization should be treated more simply. just talk to someone.

 

[SLushhYYY]

I'll be blunt and talk about my relationship and how it started (im an INTJ).
It was senior yer of high school and this girl that had been dating my INTP friend for 2 years was in my AP Government class, since we got acquainted through my friend I got her to sit next to me for the entire year. Now since I was a senior in high school, and as an engineering major in college I knew that this was my last chance to get a girlfriend for a loooong time. Oddly enough she had been planning on going to a college right next to mine.

So throughout the course of the year we had gotten along very well, we texted a lot about random crap behind her unsuspecting INTPs back, I had known that he would not do anything about it if I got with his girlfriend, also since I'd never see him again after high school. Ultimately she broke up with him for me just as I had planned for it in the beginning, and had not seen him since.

Lesson to be taught, if you find a girlfriend and want to keep her as your girlfriend, keep her more interested in yourself than anybody else. I would never let anything like that happen to me.

 

[Minuend]

Why couldn't you both date her?

 

[Etheri]

I guess I'm the only one on the "active" side. passiveness...how stagnant, how boring, how lifeless. what about being an agent of cause? I think therefore I am? I act therefore I am? Existence precedes essence? er... wait, what are we talking about again? Dating? MBTI? Ideals? "Picking up" People? and woah adaire, the 'human race'? Monogamy? meh, I think socialization should be treated more simply. just talk to someone.

I'm a lazy bastard... I think, I don't act. I think about how I could act, but I don't do it. Stagnant, boring, lifeless, sure... Is mindlessly trying is so much better, simply because you're trying?

That being said, I do talk to people ! -proud-

@Polaris : I didn't mean not actively trying to maintain relationships, I meant not actively searching them. Ofcourse I won't be all selfish with the people I love, making them feel good makes me feel good in return anyways. But I can't please everyone, and I don't feel like searching a relationship actually helps.

I'll be blunt, (im an INTJ).
Lesson to be taught, never trust me whatsoever. Friendship means nothing

Fixed. Honestly, planning to steal your friends gf simply because you can... Especially the part that you planned it out.

 

[SLushhYYY]

Welcome to the INTJ thought process

That was 3 years ago and I have apologized to the INTP for being a dick lol

 

[SpaceYeti]

Lesson to be taught, if you find a girlfriend and want to keep her as your girlfriend, keep her more interested in yourself than anybody else. I would never let anything like that happen to me.

She's either interested in you more than others or she's not. If you have to put on a show, then she must not like you that much, huh?

 

[Words]

I'm a lazy bastard... I think, I don't act. I think about how I could act, but I don't do it. Stagnant, boring, lifeless, sure... Is mindlessly trying is so much better, simply because you're trying?

Hmm.. I wonder who introduced the "mindless" part?

Anyhow, this isn't about "think vs. act", it's about "passiveness vs. activeness." Big difference. Thinking sort of falls under being active, being passive is not even bothering to think about the issue at all. Just dallying along. So, the comparison is not between "think, not act" vs. "act, not think", it is, as I will argue, "not think, not act" vs. "think and act."

There is no sense behind inaction if you want something done. There is sense behind waiting for opportunity, but even that requires attention. In the context of socialization, useful inaction requires at least being in a place of people.

That being said, I do talk to people ! -proud-

well, good for you sir.

 

[PhoenixRising]

Ok so his stuff works for man sluts. I don't think that's what this thread was supposed to be about.

You know what's disappointing to me, I expected INTP males to have more brains upstairs than they do in their pants. But it looks like most of you are just like every other type of male on the planet. No wonder you guys are having a hard time finding dates.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Ok so his stuff works for man sluts. I don't think that's what this thread was supposed to be about.

You know what's disappointing to me, I expected INTP males to have more brains upstairs than they do in their pants. But it looks like most of you are just like every other type of male on the planet. No wonder you guys are having a hard time finding dates.

Why is it hard to find a date?

 

[Cognisant]

Taken literally it's not hard at all, in theory you can walk up to any girl at anytime and ask her out, but of course we never do that, for several reasons, one being that we fear disgracing ourselves, another being that we're hurt deeply by rejection, and finally there's the unfortunate fact that we're picky, we know exactly what we want (an introverted thinker like ourselves) and everyone else is either not worth the effort or utterly unthinkable.

In short, we're snobs.
Dignified (fear of disgrace) proud (fear of rejection) snobs (we know what we want).

Which is made worse by the fact that we largely expect the girl of our dreams to either seek us out or fall in our lap, y'know we avoid parties & clubs like the plague and we usually don't talk to people unless we have a specific reason (our widely acknowledged abhorrence of chitchat and small talk) so the only time we can get a date is when we specifically approach someone to ask them out, which as I just said is something we almost never do.

Ah we're fucking hopeless

Hey @ProxyAmenRa if you ever need a wingman... I'll try not to screw it up, ok?

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

@Cognisant

To be honest, I don't think meeting women at nightclubs and pubs is the best idea for trying to find someone and develop relationship with. It is pretty rare to meet someone with similar interests or is compatible with yourself. Those places are geared for extroverted inclined people. On the other hand, clubs are great for loosing your hearing.

It is better to meet people at various activities that interest you. As an example: I was bored at work on a Sunday. The algorithm I was running takes an hour to complete and uses most of the computer's resources. I decided to talk to woman in the office who I have never spoken to before. Turns out she is an absolutely fascinating person. (We talked about more efficient numerical techniques to invert large matrices.)

If you like mathematics, go to a math conference and strike a conversation with a presenter regarding their work. If you like robotics, well, you could go to a robotics conference but I don't believe there would be many women there. I was once loitering outside a psychology conference. I was staying at the hotel the previous night. I struck a conversation with another person loitering. I had a delightful conversation. Then I invited her out for lunch. She declined but we swapped business cards and said that she would be back in town on xyz date and to give her a call. (I never did, because sometimes, I am really lazy.)

But you need to watch out. Some women will try and pore acid on your face if you talk to them. I don't know why they do this but some do. A woman once swore her head off at me because I opened the door for her. Like, wtf? Feminists...strange creatures. Something is wrong with them, emotionally...

 

[PhoenixRising]

Why is it hard to find a date?

Cognisant covered the reality of it pretty well. But he left out the one point that I was alluding to. All you guys on here that are saying you can't find interesting girls, it's because you act exactly like all other men and so interesting girls can't tell that you are interesting. See what I'm saying? By trying to generalize yourselves in order to "fit in" you are killing your chances to attract the strange, intelligent, interesting women that may be right next to you.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

I'd say congrats, @PhoenixRising, if you had wrote this just a day or two earlier.

I reached that same conclusion just the other day.

I've generally given most people I meet the cold shoulder simply because, on first impressions alone, they didn't seem all too interesting to me, but I've slowly been coming to change that point of view.

Who says people can't be interesting? They don't cease to exist as soon as I'm not in the same room as them (I don't think) and they have aspects of their lives that go much deeper and farther than anyone can see from spending a few minutes half-listening to what they're saying.

There are whole worlds that I could see into just by asking a question or two and being even the tiniest bit interested in others. Getting caught being a snob, as Cognisant mentioned, means you'll end up seeing only what you want to see which leaves anyone who isn't your ideal, at least on a superficial level, left by the wayside. (I do have to admit, though, that I do still catch myself becoming snobbish about other people. (It's a long process. (Don't judge me.)))

 

[Etheri]

Hmm.. I wonder who introduced the "mindless" part?

Anyhow, this isn't about "think vs. act", it's about "passiveness vs. activeness." Big difference. Thinking sort of falls under being active, being passive is not even bothering to think about the issue at all. Just dallying along. So, the comparison is not between "think, not act" vs. "act, not think", it is, as I will argue, "not think, not act" vs. "think and act."

There is no sense behind inaction if you want something done. There is sense behind waiting for opportunity, but even that requires attention. In the context of socialization, useful inaction requires at least being in a place of people.

We already established that trying does not give any proof of improvement, thus I find it rather mindless. However, lets just say i'm waiting for opportunity (preferably falling down upon me and hitting me on the head so i'll actually notice). I mean, there is attention and thought - call that active if you will, but it's quite passive compared to actively dating girls regularly.

Concerning your second paragraph, since I'm not alone on this planet and i'm doomed to meet people, the second condition will, in time, be met no matter how inactive.

By trying to generalize yourselves in order to "fit in" you are killing your chances to attract the strange, intelligent, interesting women that may be right next to you.

And that is why I love the internet. It won't give me any dates, but atleast i'll get to meet interesting people without having 100 'normal' people look down on me first.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Cognisant covered the reality of it pretty well. But he left out the one point that I was alluding to. All you guys on here that are saying you can't find interesting girls, it's because you act exactly like all other men and so interesting girls can't tell that you are interesting. See what I'm saying? By trying to generalize yourselves in order to "fit in" you are killing your chances to attract the strange, intelligent, interesting women that may be right next to you.

I find everyone interesting in their own unique way. ^_^

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Perhaps this is rare for whatever reason or just my own personal experience, but I find that 90% of the time I'm the one who is approached, and on top of that I'm oblivious to it until it slaps me in the face.

 

[Words]

Taken literally it's not hard at all, in theory you can walk up to any girl at anytime and ask her out, but of course we never do that, for several reasons, one being that we fear disgracing ourselves, another being that we're hurt deeply by rejection.

As someone with excessive social anxiety and history of having anxiety disorder, I can empathize with these emotions. But, so what? Should i just cower away and allow these irrational feelings to control me? Or should i seek freedom from these chains?

I think that all social issues like these must be faced head on and unguarded. The only way to level up is to leap at it. Face a thousand rejection. Face a thousand disgrace. Then, you'll learn how to laugh at yourself.

We already established that trying does not give any proof of improvement, thus I find it rather mindless.

What!? Who established this?

It depends on what you're trying out but obviously attempting to eat a cake can't be done by simply breathing excessively. Why would anyone argue for that? Who, in the right mind, would argue for "mindless trial"?

And you know what else is obvious? That eating a cake can be done by lifting the cake and putting it in your mouth and dividing its parts through an up and down motion of your lower jaw, and then swallowing it. There. I just demonstrated the obvious success one can achieve by "trying" things out.

However, lets just say i'm waiting for opportunity (preferably falling down upon me and hitting me on the head so i'll actually notice). I mean, there is attention and thought - call that active if you will, but it's quite passive compared to actively dating girls regularly.

yes, relatively. that is right.

Concerning your second paragraph, since I'm not alone on this planet and i'm doomed to meet people, the second condition will, in time, be met no matter how inactive.

Second condition...? Mere Attraction?

And no, inactivity can range from your standard to being an eternal shut-in. The latter is possible provided certain...er...economic conditions are met. Also, if you're a good ninja.

In any case. What I'm arguing for is upping chances. It's just a matter of probability. The more rationally active you are, the faster you get output desired, the less likely that you'll end up being gramps before achieving the goal.

And that is why I love the internet. It won't give me any dates, but atleast i'll get to meet interesting people without having 100 'normal' people look down on me first.

Look down on you? Isn't that just your imagination?

 

[The Gopher]

Why is it hard to find a date?

It's not, going on dates with girls is easy. They grow on trees. (dates not girls{get it?}) *cough* but like I said it's easy.


Going on dates with the girl is the problem. As in the girl you want to marry and be with for the rest of your life *blah blah* romance *blah blah* Trust me the intp personality makes it really easy to pick up girls. Just be nice and talk to them. If the girl is nice no problem if she isn't problem. If you do have social problems then work on them and defeat them.

Hey @ProxyAmenRa if you ever need a wingman... I'll try not to screw it up, ok?

And if you ever need a wingman I will try very hard to screw it up.

 

[intpz]

I find everyone interesting in their own unique way. ^_^

That's what someone I know, an ISTP (I believe) is always saying, when I tell him that I find most people ultimately boring, engaging in meaningless conversations called "small-talk," and all that.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

That's what someone I know, an ISTP (I believe) is always saying, when I tell him that I find most people ultimately boring, engaging in meaningless conversations called "small-talk," and all that.

It is not that hard to find out what someone is passionate about...

 

[intpz]

It is not that hard to find out what someone is passionate about...

A lot of people are passionate about fashion, that's not exciting nor interesting.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

A lot of people are passionate about fashion, that's not exciting nor interesting.

Are you kidding me? I guess you just have not seen these shoes:

Spoiler

Sexiest pair of shoes I have ever seen in my life!

 

[Etheri]

Look down on you? Isn't that just your imagination?

No it's not. Don't take me wrong, I did mention it's not everyone. But most people, the more they find out we're nowhere alike, the less the want to do with me. I can easily be a non-caring random person who's slightly socially awkward. And that's fine, people can like me as that. The more i'll let them into my brain, however, the more people dislike me for it. People prefer me as a mindless careless fun person, without the foundation of thought I build this personality on. In some cases, I admit it might have been my fault, mainly by making them see the flaws in their ideas and beliefs... But that's far less frequent than them just visibly thinking 'wtf you're weird'.

One of my friends still genuinely believes i'll grow up to be a psychopath. Last time I confided her with what I was thinking and feeling, she ended up not speaking to me for a week, which is rather amazing as she never shushes.

 

[intpz]

Are you kidding me? I guess you just have not seen these shoes:

Sexiest pair of shoes I have ever seen in my life!

To be honest, I was debating if those shoes are woman's shoes when I first saw them. Not that I dislike them or anything, just my first thought.

 

[Fukyo]

A lot of people are passionate about fashion, that's not exciting nor interesting.

Dude, is there anything you like? Seriously, whenever I read your posts, 90% of them are expressing dismissal and dislike over something.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

To be honest, I was debating if those shoes are woman's shoes when I first saw them. Not that I dislike them or anything, just my first thought.

Errm? They were in the men's section.

 

[Polaris]

Nothing wrong with fashion. It appeals to our creative side. I used to draw fashion clothing as a hobby. The human form is particularly interesting when it concerns aesthetics, it requires one to systemise through balancing of colours, shapes and textures in a highly creative manner. I don't have as much interest in wearing fashion, but I understand it's appeal to our intuitive appreciation for aesthetic balance, or even dischord.

 

[intpz]

Dude, is there anything you like? Seriously, whenever I read your posts, 90% of them are expressing dismissal and dislike over something.

Thank you.

Lots of things I like: a quality video game, a nice meal, comfortable clothes, hardware, a good movie, an interesting argument; just to name very few things that I like.

Errm? They were in the men's section.

I know, but that was my first thought. Guess fashion is changing a lot, and I'm not into it. The other day, I was taking a walk late in the night and saw a bunch of people, 10 or 15 of them, going out of a club that closed. They were dressed, what I'd assumed, fashionably. They looked goofy, I held my laughter when walking past them. If only there were some neo-nazis with baseball bats... Would've been fun to watch.

 

[Words]

No it's not. Don't take me wrong, I did mention it's not everyone. But most people, the more they find out we're nowhere alike, the less the want to do with me. I can easily be a non-caring random person who's slightly socially awkward. And that's fine, people can like me as that. The more i'll let them into my brain, however, the more people dislike me for it. People prefer me as a mindless careless fun person, without the foundation of thought I build this personality on. In some cases, I admit it might have been my fault, mainly by making them see the flaws in their ideas and beliefs... But that's far less frequent than them just visibly thinking 'wtf you're weird'.

One of my friends still genuinely believes i'll grow up to be a psychopath. Last time I confided her with what I was thinking and feeling, she ended up not speaking to me for a week, which is rather amazing as she never shushes.

Then just don't talk about these things to the people who are not interested in them. Find folks who are interested in those stuff and then you can talk as much as you want. You can test people out, you know. Mention one thing here and there...another topic here and there. I don't know what sort of information those are though. If they're personal, then it's about familiar people i guess.

 

[Cognisant]

And if you ever need a wingman I will try very hard to screw it up.

Okay, we'll make it a race

 

[BridgeOfSighs]

Having been a 20 year old girl I can tell you that most of us are boring as hell, maybe because we're still not sure what we want. We don't really get interesting until we:
a) graduate college
and/or
b) find a job
c) move out of our parent's house
d) get our heart fucking trampled once or twice without blaming other person entirely

Unfortunately, most women still choose to act like 20 year old girls well into their 40s.

Tried online dating?

 

[Dr. Freeman]

I haven't had that many difficulties with dating so far. During high school I went on two dates, and this last week I went on my third, forth, and fifth.

Spoiler

The most recent ones were with the same person and I would consider them friend dates rather than romantic.

 

[Atheist]

Too exciting- Somehow, a drama will occur somewhere at a club. Then, I shall wish to leave. I prefer to avoid conflict, and large groups of people. It's very relative, considering the high percentage of obnoxious people.

Too boring- If I must listen to someone talking about text messages received, I might be tempted to asked "so?" With this thought stuck in my mind, communication will become difficult.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Having been a 20 year old girl I can tell you that most of us are boring as hell, maybe because we're still not sure what we want. We don't really get interesting until we:
a) graduate college
and/or
b) find a job
c) move out of our parent's house
d) get our heart fucking trampled once or twice without blaming other person entirely

Unfortunately, most women still choose to act like 20 year old girls well into their 40s.

Tried online dating?

speak for yourself

 

[Etheri]

speak for yourself

I see what you did there.