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Da Blob

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NoID10ts

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*walks in wielding the still bloody executioner's axe like a gentleman's cane*

Well this is fascinating.
To shed some light on the issue I first received my orders from Loveofreason via Auburn, then after requesting confirmation, from the lady of dismay herself, "off with his head" she said.

*twirls the axe as he walks around*
I'll admit there was no hesitation on my part, indeed this was a course of action I suggested quite some time ago, but please do not be mistaken, I did not and will not ever ban someone simply because I want to, had that been the case I would have banned Da Blob long ago.

Instead it appears Lor has her own reasons, she's calling herself the Queen now.
Maybe she's buying my loyalty with blood (that only just occurred to me).
Maybe she just wants this discussion to take place?
Maybe she's just gone crazy.

I've just fallen in love with that crazy bitch all over again (now I'm next, right). Can you cut her head off and send it to me, Cog? :D

Like I said before, I'm not losing any sleep over any of this. Hell, I don't know why I even keep posting on the subject. I've been nothing but a half assed member here for over a year now, anyway.
 

Puffy

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*walks in wielding the still bloody executioner's axe like a gentleman's cane*

Well this is fascinating.
To shed some light on the issue I first received my orders from Loveofreason via Auburn, then after requesting confirmation, from the lady of dismay herself, "off with his head" she said.

*twirls the axe as he walks around*
I'll admit there was no hesitation on my part, indeed this was a course of action I suggested quite some time ago, but please do not be mistaken, I did not and will not ever ban someone simply because I want to, had that been the case I would have banned Da Blob long ago.

Instead it appears Lor has her own reasons, she's calling herself the Queen now.
Maybe she's buying my loyalty with blood (that only just occurred to me).
Maybe she just wants this discussion to take place?
Maybe she's just gone crazy.

Haha, thanks Cog, so many inaccessible authorities, why do I feel like I'm now placed in the middle of Franz Kafka's The Trial? :D
 

BigApplePi

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Oh, I thought that was just called bullshitting. I'm having trouble finding sources online that mention "organic reasoning" but what you describe is an aesthetic approach, and not what I'd classify as reasoning... or, not the kind of reasoning I'm interested in.

I think it could be better called persuasion, and I agree that a good storyteller must be persuasive.
Yes persuasion and yes b.s. but I'm thinking of something more general. I didn't have a name for it so I called it "organic reasoning." That's why you didn't find sources. (I would think they should be there somewhere though.) The reason ("the reason", hah!) I call it a form of reasoning is I think of reasoning as cause and effect. Linear reasoning is solid. Organic is not. How about calling it, "Guided inductive logical reasoning"?

My argument being a math person is there is no such thing as strict linear reasoning in the real world. That's only for abstract mathematics. So what is the nature of cause and effect? It's a starting point followed by the next display. No starting point can be precisely defined. So whatever follows, since it is based on imprecision, has got to be imprecise.

If I had lots of examples I could make this more clear. Maybe you can think something up. That should be easy. Describing is not so easy.
 

Auburn

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+1 For all of Jennywocky's posts.
 

loveofreason

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Blob has always been a borderline case, not because of his views but because of the way he argues in a manner that kills discussion, and which has had a cumulative impact on the viability of a range of forum topics and threads.

It would be easy to ignore, but posters interested in genuine debate have drifted away or given up engaging with topics Blob has monopolised. When a situation becomes stagnant, something has to give way in order to stimulate new life.



BAP, try searching out references to 'analinear' - a hybrid of analogue and linear processing.
 

Jennywocky

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...I hope LOR has her salary doubled for the new year.

Regarding the banning(s). I'd just like to point out a few things that is easy to forget in all this blood shedding.

Wonderful -- Victor quoted in a Blob thread. Will the pain never cease?
 

Cavallier

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*walks in wielding the still bloody executioner's axe like a gentleman's cane*

Well this is fascinating.
To shed some light on the issue I first received my orders from Loveofreason via Auburn, then after requesting confirmation, from the lady of dismay herself, "off with his head" she said.

*twirls the axe as he walks around*
I'll admit there was no hesitation on my part, indeed this was a course of action I suggested quite some time ago, but please do not be mistaken, I did not and will not ever ban someone simply because I want to, had that been the case I would have banned Da Blob long ago.

Instead it appears Lor has her own reasons, she's calling herself the Queen now.
Maybe she's buying my loyalty with blood (that only just occurred to me).
Maybe she just wants this discussion to take place?
Maybe she's just gone crazy.

HA! I KNEW IT! This whole thing smelled of Queens.

Wait...since when did LoR still give a rat's ass?

*hears a stray giggle floating on the wind*

Oh...damn.
 

crippli

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Wonderful -- Victor quoted in a Blob thread. Will the pain never cease?
I didn't know there was an issue with Victor and the administrator. I wrote the name as I didn't want to steal the quote. Please don't ban him, he gives the place(for those who don't know what we talk about, it's typologycentral) a flavor for just occasional readers, like myself.

But that's really off topic. I'll just stop there. At least Blob should have the focus on him(at least from me), and LoR(hi, what an entrance),so much time he must have spent.

There has been reasoning(from relevant direction), so for me the case is closed.
 

cheese

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LOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*hyperventilates*

But it still seems wrong to ban him. Can't we just tell him to shut up, instead of permanently restricting his access to discussion? Permabans suck.
 

EyeSeeCold

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Most of his activity I never encountered so if anything of his was ban-worthy I definitely missed it completely. Never had a problem with him personally or seen him as a nuisance.
 

The Gopher

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LOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*hyperventilates*

But it still seems wrong to ban him. Can't we just tell him to shut up, instead of permanently restricting his access to discussion? Permabans suck.

I'M HAVING THE SAME REACTION! However I don't know Blob apart from (I think it was him about a yearback wandering into the chatbox to ask something)

I don't know... Bannings just scare me everyday I wake up thinking.... will I be Banned for enthusiasim? Will this punishment from the great ones of power those ancient beings (sorry guys you must be kinda old by now) decide I am to blame?

Someone is always the biggest problem soon nobody will be left.... the mods will ban one another fights will break out and then on that fatefull day dun dun daa!

Ragnor and Claverhouse will fight (yes I know just run with it)

The forum will end and with it all INTPs will perish...
 

BigApplePi

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Blob has always been a borderline case, not because of his views but because of the way he argues in a manner that kills discussion, and which has had a cumulative impact on the viability of a range of forum topics and threads.
Hi lor. Take a look at this:

all the way through to this:

and then this:
The Gopher Re: Da Blob
 
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Felan

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I don't know... Bannings just scare me everyday I wake up thinking.... will I be Banned for enthusiasim? Will this punishment from the great ones of power those ancient beings (sorry guys you must be kinda old by now) decide I am to blame?

Not all of Blob's 4000+ posts were over-enthusiastic (being charitable to just call it over-enthusiastic I think) but a very good chunk of them were. Do you genuinely feel like the weight of your enthusiasm approaches that of Da Blob's, in quantity of posts or even degree of enthusiasm?
 

Puffy

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Retry! Thanks.

It doesn't come up with anything for me either, just says "sorry we could not match your search" or something to that effect.
 

BigApplePi

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Does it work now?
 

hitode-kun

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Nope. I don't think links to searches work.
 

BigApplePi

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That's because you're in Australia. Have you tried clicking standing on your head?:D
 

hitode-kun

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Apart from the fact that that doesn't work, why would I ever admit to doing something like that? I mean, who would bother trying (and failing)?

Huh? Me? W-what are you talking about…? :storks:
 

The Gopher

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I now wonder what this is -_- but no they still don't work

Edit: if you tell us the search term should be easy to find out
 

The Gopher

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Not all of Blob's 4000+ posts were over-enthusiastic (being charitable to just call it over-enthusiastic I think) but a very good chunk of them were. Do you genuinely feel like the weight of your enthusiasm approaches that of Da Blob's, in quantity of posts or even degree of enthusiasm?


I didn't think he was enthusiastic at all. Was he? I don't remember seeing any enthusiasm from him at all.... that said I hardly went in threads he was in. Also no I don't have as many posts as him... as for degree of enthusiasm that was a totally unrelated topic o_o

At least I wasn't comparing myself to him anyway...
 

Felan

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I didn't think he was enthusiastic at all. Was he? I don't remember seeing any enthusiasm from him at all.... that said I hardly went in threads he was in. Also no I don't have as many posts as him... as for degree of enthusiasm that was a totally unrelated topic o_o

At least I wasn't comparing myself to him anyway...

My point was that I don't think you have much to worry about as far as being banned goes. I don't know that for sure as I don't have really know who all the admins are. Maybe one of the admins has poignant nightmares inspired by Caddyshack and you'll soon be the victim of a spectacular dynamite banning.
 

Auburn

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Unless you're new & start spamming on your first post -- you'll generally get a warning before anything happens. As might've been mentioned elsewhere Blob had been warned & temp banned in the past.

So, I wouldn't worry Gohper. ^^
Plus if you're one whose concerned for such things, then it's all the more evidence you've nothing to worry about. From what I've seen, the ones who get banned are those who don't show concern for such things or the members they're communicating with. ._.

*exits thread*
 

BigApplePi

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Blob has always been a borderline case, not because of his views but because of the way he argues in a manner that kills discussion, and which has had a cumulative impact on the viability of a range of forum topics and threads.

BAP, try searching out references to 'analinear' - a hybrid of analogue and linear processing.
loveofreason your post suggests things to me. Let me see what I can make of it. I tried to look up types of reasoning, but it was hard to pick up on those. I have some thoughts of my own. Perhaps they can be applied to this thread if I change the proposition

from "Da Blob is to be banned" to "Da Blob is to be warned."

Deductive reasoning is like a stream running downhill in a channel. It flows from general to specific. What ends up downhill is inevitable, can't be avoided and in a way is irresistible. Inductive reason is different. Inductive reasoning is the opposite of deductive. It flows from specific to general. It reminds me of political statements of today. "This candidate did such and such. Therefore he is not fit for office."

It is very hard to find general truths like, "These are the reasons for sure for banning or warning someone." These reasons are likely subjective. By subjective I mean, "I would like to ban" is different from, "Here is a universal morality for banning." I would submit that just about all practical reasoning when we talk about "reason" is inductive. That is, we gather specific information from our experience and arrive at a general conclusion like, "This and that has happened, so the person should be banned or warned." Or maybe, "X number of people speak up and want the person banned. Therefore X is a majority" (where the silent people fail to speak up.)

It's like a number of rivelets flowing downstream. The channel is not yet worn. Some water reaches the bottom. The rest falls by the wayside. It is NOT inevitable that a rivelet will reach the bottom. Another analogy for inductive reasoning is like a river flowing down to the ocean but ending in a broad delta. The outlet spreads out broadly and the channeling endpoint is no longer clear.

Let's apply this to Da Blob and see what might be propositions:
"Da Blob's activities kill discussion." It would be very hard to generalize this.

Like the rivelets, Da Blob is responsible for initiating many discussions. Some of them run down the hill and kill discussion. But others stimulate, run down the hill and spread out like the delta in unexpected and important directions.

I can see some may conclude one way and others another.
=======================

Addendum. I am not fond of showing emotion. My head says a decision was made. That's the way it is and I have no control over this. My heart says the INTP Forum has lost its innocence for me. What I loved about it is now missing. For me some kind of mistake somewhere. A fellow INTP whom I valued a great deal is gone. Now I feel pain and am sad. I may get over it, but will the Forum itself be the same?

If only I had known this could and would happen, I would have engaged him critically on his threads. I didn't because I didn't hear a loud enough bell.

I can get in contact with Da Blob. Are there any messages you would like me to relay to him? ... or you could yourself.
 

SpaceYeti

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While Da Blob's many lengthy posts have been a brick wall to many threads, at least for me, and there was a long time I was ignoring him entirely, I don't think he has done anything ban-worthy. I mean... He never broke any of the forum's rules, insofar as I can tell, he's just an anti-rational mystic. I don't think being irrational is against the rules.
 

BigApplePi

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While Da Blob's many lengthy posts have been a brick wall to many threads, at least for me, and there was a long time I was ignoring him entirely, I don't think he has done anything ban-worthy. I mean... He never broke any of the forum's rules, insofar as I can tell, he's just an anti-rational mystic. I don't think being irrational is against the rules.
I never studied his mysticism aspect. Seems that thing is a little hard to grab hold of. If I were to conceptualize it, I'd let it run wherever he took it and see if anything led astray that merited criticism. It's not too late to go back there now, but at the moment I don't have the energy.

I would object if he put a brick wall into someone else's thread. Did he? But his own? Somehow I feel the initiator of a thread owns or at least guides and defines it and has lots of say on how it is to go.

Somehow mysticism has me thinking of voodoo. The first thing I associate is this is so much b.s. Yet millions of people practice it. That means sociologists are going to take an interest. Sociologists are scientists I fully respect. So at the very least I see reason enters in albeit counter-intuitive.
 

Melllvar

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Reading between the lines, and looking back at the past history of reactions to various members, it seems fair to say that some simply have an ideal of what the forum should be, and if you don't fit with that very well then you risk getting the axe.

In any case, I personally don't see "arguing in a manner that kills discussion" as being particularly ban-worthy. People have told me about the high IQ sub-forums and general elitism on INTPc; even in the case he does dampen discussion, this seems pretty similar. And with all due to respect to loveofreason, I'm not any more inclined to buy the reasoning just because she said it than if a random member with 1 post had said it.

I'm sure this could much more easily be viewed as simple religious discrimination hidden behind some flowery language about "the greater good" and importance of "public discourse" based on the sage-like wisdom of the powers that be.

BigApplePi said:
I can get in contact with Da Blob. Are there any messages you would like me to relay to him? ... or you could yourself.

Yeah I actually had a book he might like, of all weird things. On modernizing education, he was one of the few others who was somewhat outspoken about that. I'll just use the forum email function though, just saying it here in case that redirects to something he never checks anymore.
 

Puffy

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^ I'm not sure it is religious discrimination; I guess you can't really know, but I believe the reasons given were likely genuine. If that's the case that Blob is Christian is co-incidental. This forum's community is likely not the friendliest ever towards religious folks, but when I was religious myself I don't remember feeling bullied or barred from discussion - unless that minority speak out feeling genuinely side-lined I'm not sure it's the best route to go down is all.

Like some I'm not sure the ban was necessary, though. The weed metaphor makes sense, I understand why he was banned, but in general I think a banning like that has a worse effect on the atmosphere of a community (particularly from members who are new, or not as firmly rooted) than the effect of the apparant nuisance they wanted to get rid of. It doesn't change my view of peeps, I'm just saying.

Like or dislike, I think Blob always did want to genuinely help, sometimes it perhaps came across the wrong way because of his beliefs, but I believed he came from a good place at least. And I'll say, years back when I first joined (and I was first starting University) deep-thought and academia were really alien and difficult for me. Some of the more intense discussions on this forum were even quite overwhelming, but they were a stimulant to engage and helped me tremendously. I have a lot to thank for this forum in that respect, among other things. But Blob, then, was someone who inspired me to really engage deeply, something which ultimately gave me a lot more confidence in myself.

Perhaps his fault was that he ended with nothing new to say, maybe then it's appropriate in it's own way. I hadn't spoken with him much recently, I'm still sad to see him go, but as I said I did not create this thread to complain. I felt I needed to create it almost as someone constructs a shrine or monument at a passing; Blob was well known, well aged and well posted on the forum, for him to fade without a good-bye here just didn't seem right.

That's my 2 cents anyway. :)

*exits shortly behind Auburn*
 

Jennywocky

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I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time seeing Blob's passing as detrimental to the forum, nor do I see it as some sort of pattern that's going to build and quell discussion. Maybe that's just my personal intuition on the matter, but he seems like an isolated and individual case... and he lasted a very long time in that zone. The same reasoning could have been applied against him months and/or years ago, but the administration was very patient and let things continue for a very long time before finally deciding to pull the plug. It suggests they'll be pretty level-headed and long-suffering in other situations as well, as I can't imagine anyone being more Da Blob than Da Blob was. I'm glad that some people here were able to respond positively to his presence and feel like he was of some benefit to them; as I stated before, he was extremely detrimental to my participation and part of the reason I've moved on; he was far too reminiscent of a world that I spent much of my life fighting to escape.
 

Melllvar

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To clarify, since I know people love taking everything I say the wrong way:

1) I know they aren't systematically banning any group (except spammers) - he made it to 4,000 posts and there are plenty of other Christians here who debate and defend their beliefs. I chose the words "you risk getting the axe" carefully, as opposed to "you will get banned" or something like that.

2) I didn't mean it was religious discrimination, or that the explanation was untruthful. That seems unlikely, although you'd be retarded not to question how much his religious views affected it compared to whether he'd been stubbornly promoting transhumanism or left-leaning politics the same way all this time, etc. My meaning in that comment was that it would obviously look that way (imho) if you walked in and read a few of his conversations with everyone else and then read this thread.

Beyond that I stand by everything I said, and am also exiting too now.

(EDIT: )
Puffy said:
Blob was well known, well aged and well posted on the forum, for him to fade without a good-bye here just didn't seem right.

^That was actually my main reason for saying anything as well. As one of the heavily pro-science atheist/agnostics, just wanted to point out that I had no problem with him or anything else.
 

BigApplePi

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I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time seeing Blob's passing as detrimental to the forum, nor do I see it as some sort of pattern that's going to build and quell discussion. Maybe that's just my personal intuition on the matter, but he seems like an isolated and individual case... and he lasted a very long time in that zone. The same reasoning could have been applied against him months and/or years ago, but the administration was very patient and let things continue for a very long time before finally deciding to pull the plug. It suggests they'll be pretty level-headed and long-suffering in other situations as well, as I can't imagine anyone being more Da Blob than Da Blob was. I'm glad that some people here were able to respond positively to his presence and feel like he was of some benefit to them;
Hi Jennywocky. What is detrimental is what is missing ... the positive influence he carried to this forum to those who didn't speak up. Now there are all kinds of opinions on this. Not everyone likes or approves of everyone. (I know for sure some people like me and some strongly disapprove of me ... which I found out on another bulletin board.)

Something puzzles me Jenny. You said you put him on ignore. It was annoying to read something and find holes in the dialog where he was. I am different. For me, Da Blob had a different style. I knew I often didn't understand what he was talking about. So I just went on to another thread. I ignored the whole conversation because I was willing to wait until something registered to take an interest. If I don't understand it, I stay out or else ask a question. Maybe typical of INTP's Da Blob was weak on Fe.
as I stated before, he was extremely detrimental to my participation and part of the reason I've moved on; he was far too reminiscent of a world that I spent much of my life fighting to escape.
Jenny you will have to excuse me if I'm way off base here, but this reminds me of something. (I hadn't read the 2nd part of your reply yet which showed another feeling.) I don't know if Da Blob was a "born-again Christian" but he had some strong belief. On another bulletin board I talk to one from time-to-time. He is extremely firm in his beliefs while a good number of atheists hang around just to beat on him. (Not INTPs). I, being the only INTP, have to take his side. By take his side I mean I listen. I don't join him. He is happy to have someone listen, but now I find myself cornered. That is, as typical of some INTPs I am all logic and never talk about myself. Realizing this, now I am struggling on how to show myself AND him that I don't share his beliefs or feelings. Are you talking about something like this? You have wanted to escape an oppression of those who don't let you be yourself? Is that what you mean? If Da Blob were here, knowing what has just happened to him, I would want to tell him where I was at, how I was different, and get his reply. Again, you will have to excuse me if I've missed the mark.
 

Jennywocky

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Hi Jennywocky. What is detrimental is what is missing ... the positive influence he carried to this forum to those who didn't speak up. Now there are all kinds of opinions on this. Not everyone likes or approves of everyone. (I know for sure some people like me and some strongly disapprove of me ... which I found out on another bulletin board.)

Well, I've also moderated for five years on another forum, so I've had experience with a wide degree of members, including the "problem" ones. There are always some people who can deal fine with the
problem members, but I couldn't evaluate the impact of the person by that, I had to think of the forum as a whole.

Maybe it helps if I give you a concrete example: When you get an abrasive person in the room, there are some people who can deal, but there are also many who will be put off and who will change their participation. They will not say things they might have said before. Or they will become passive-aggressive. Or they will leave the room and no longer participate in the group, because they need to go elsewhere. Instead of being open and present, they end up protecting themselves and leaving or cloaking their contributions.

As a result, the forum becomes less diverse; those who are abrasive themselves can handle other abrasive people; the forum becomes much more abrasive and there's no balance to it, because the others no longer find it a suitable environment.

So I'm not really much concerned whether "some people" found Blob to be fine. That's nice. I'm just thinking big-picture and total impact on the forum culture. Typically there's a large "middle" area where people can have a range of personality and inclination and it's good to preserve that space; but as soon as that boundary is crossed by someone more extreme, the forum composition is impacted, and the snowball starts rolling down the hill, and soon it gets so big that it won't stop anymore. Members different than the extreme member will withdraw and leave, while those similar to the extreme person will be attracted to the forum, and the change will only accelerate. Soon you're left with a bunch of abrasive people (from my example above) or people who are immune to it, but you've lost an entire population of average people and people who are vulnerable and have a different view to offer.


Something puzzles me Jenny. You said you put him on ignore. It was annoying to read something and find holes in the dialog where he was. I am different. For me, Da Blob had a different style. I knew I often didn't understand what he was talking about. So I just went on to another thread. I ignored the whole conversation because I was willing to wait until something registered to take an interest. If I don't understand it, I stay out or else ask a question. Maybe typical of INTP's Da Blob was weak on Fe.

I'm not sure what you are puzzled about. I'm different than you. I think the way you approach social situations also leads you to just move on and not engage. Unfortunately, I'm wired differently, and I've been socialized differently, and I desire to communicate and connect; I'm not nearly as disconnected as you seem to be. It's frustrating to me to have to either try to talk to someone who there is no possibility of communicating with (because he isn't interested in working together to reach an understanding) or to have to sit there silently and listen to him drone on and on without regard to making others listen to all that; to me, that's the worst kind of parasite. He's just making a lot of his own noise and expects everyone to listen and change to accept his view (or to argue with him and no one budging), without allowing for others to change his. If I am going to allow others to change my mind, I expect them to be fair and play by the same rules.

Jenny you will have to excuse me if I'm way off base here, but this reminds me of something. (I hadn't read the 2nd part of your reply yet which showed another feeling.) I don't know if Da Blob was a "born-again Christian" but he had some strong belief. On another bulletin board I talk to one from time-to-time. He is extremely firm in his beliefs while a good number of atheists hang around just to beat on him. (Not INTPs). I, being the only INTP, have to take his side. By take his side I mean I listen. I don't join him. He is happy to have someone listen, but now I find myself cornered. That is, as typical of some INTPs I am all logic and never talk about myself. Realizing this, now I am struggling on how to show myself AND him that I don't share his beliefs or feelings. Are you talking about something like this? You have wanted to escape an oppression of those who don't let you be yourself? Is that what you mean? If Da Blob were here, knowing what has just happened to him, I would want to tell him where I was at, how I was different, and get his reply. Again, you will have to excuse me if I've missed the mark.

I don't really feel like Blob was one who "listened" -- his transmitter was on full blast and his receiver seemed to be permanently down. I have had enough experience with these types of people, the same patterns of behavior, where I've invested and tried to connect and realized eventually that I was being foolish. I spent a good 37 years in religious culture dealing with people just like him and suffered a lot of dismissal and erosion of self at their hands.

This isn't about emotional projection, though, even if I have feelings tied up in this; I'm talking more about pattern recognition; I don't need to sit around and watch the same patterns of behavior at work, and need to wonder how it's going to turn out or how it will impact me or how it might impact the forum. I've already made the mistakes over and over again of putting myself out there for said people in some hope that they would respond, and realizing that that's just not how it works.

Maybe it would work fine for you, because you're not me.. and if so, more power to you. Everyone needs friends, and if you can deal with being Blob's friend and feeling like you can listen to him, that's fine. I'm not petty enough to think that you shouldn't be able to offer him that if I can't; I'm glad there are some who have the ability to deal with him.

But it's not an investment for myself that I find productive; in fact, it ended up making my life hell for some years, and my realization eventually was that for me I just needed to get away from it.

Hope that explains my feelings better.
 

Auburn

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This thread's still going..? *blinks*

@ BAP - Mm, despite how you might have been one of those who did not mind Da Blob, administrators act on a sense of the whole community's well-being. Meaning it is not really a point of argument whether you personally found him pleasant/distasteful, as much as whether he had an overall detrimental impact on the community as a whole. And as is evident, the administration's verdict was the latter..

The posts in this thread are proof that it was a difficult call to make, as some were okay with him while a lot were crippled by his activity. It was stated that it was a hard call to make, and also why a decision took so long.. the least one can do as a member is respect that, and respect the other members around you who do feel a sense of relief for this event. That's part of looking out for the whole.
p.s. As repeated many times, this was not a result of him holding christian beliefs, or any beliefs in general. It was his refusal to properly dialogue with other members - it became a monologue.

And sure, if you want to be a born-again-christian and be so solid/unmovable in your beliefs that any conversation with you is futile, that's completely fine. But this is a forum community, which operates via verbal communication - the giving and receiving (exchange) of thoughts. Without communication.. there is no community, and if one's not here to communicate (but to monologue) then I don't see why they're here.

Edit: Ninja'd by Jennywocky. But once again I agree with her. I have also been an administrator of other forums for several years so I know what this is like.

And as a sidenote, it doesn't have to take half (50%) of the forum to be bothered by a member before they're booted. In all honesty, I'd say that if there's a member whose causing upset to even 40% of member, that's enough of a disturbance to say the forum is better off without that member. The measure for when a member must go isn't when the majority of members have an issue with hir - an admin is trusted to have the good of the whole forum in mind and take action as needed, despite not having the popularity vote.
 

The Gopher

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Well if right or wrong.... at least it means something happened on the forum....
 

BigApplePi

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Auburn. Makes sense. Let the ball be in my park to check out if Da Blob fits or can fit your description. I haven't known him that long.
 

Dr. Freeman

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Did Blob do anything to actually violate the user agreement? Forcefully stating that your belief system is the only truth is annoying, but isn't really more than that.

279px-3D-printed-ban-hammer.jpg
 

BigApplePi

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Did Blob do anything to actually violate the user agreement? Forcefully stating that your belief system is the only truth is annoying, but isn't really more than that.
Dr. Freeman. Even if he didn't violate anything specifically, what I hear being said is he was TOO forceful. This apparently created an atmosphere which bothered some enough to conjecture it would injure the atmosphere of too large an area. It wasn't any sudden decision. The Forum as a whole has to be taken into account.

I wasn't aware of the situation was up for dispute to have any say before its occurrence. If there were greater awareness a broader set of people could have confronted him. It was also suggested that if the countering itself could be too disruptive, that could only contribute to the matter. Knowing this Forum I would think the thing could have been kept under control, but I could always be wrong.

Whether it is too late to fix this (put it to rest) or not, I am waiting to hear from Da Blob to see if he has anything to say. I don't think he is following this board so I sent him a summary.
 

BigApplePi

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Vote? Good question. I will paraphrase Auburn/ Jennywocky but in my own words. It's not a question of a majority. It's a matter of:

(1) The overall picture
(2) Injury to a plurality if not fixable is enough.

Afterthought. Suppose there were a vote and a 30 percent plurality said go one way. That wouldn't be enough because management has the overall picture. They have the strongest judgment. Individuals do not.

Now suppose the vote were 90 percent. Then I'm sure management would listen and want to go along. But that still might not be enough. That's again because management has the overall picture: Finances, resources, personal energy, management energy, etc.
 

Awaken

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Thank you Jenny. That is the first response on the topic that has helped ease my mind. In reality, it is not just about dablob, it is more an issue of the social dynamics of the forum as a whole. I realize the tough job that moderators have on the forum, however, as others have mentioned, I think some issues should be a Little more open to the public. We see how non disclosure has worked for the US govt, and I am just hoping that this forum does not create the same Atmosphere.

v
I am not necessarily saying have a vote on the issue, but I do believe that at least a list of mods and a list of warnings/ bans would help the community as a whole. I have seen other forums have an edit on posts by mods saying" tis user was warned for such and such behavior". I think that this is a good idea to implement here as opposed to simply erasing the evidence altogether, or having a governing body secretly tallying infractions or warning people solely through PM.
 

Auburn

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@ Awaken - The issue with making a public spectacle of these actions is that it would practically be inviting more drama. For every public moral call that is made, there will be people who agree and disagree with it -- and all of that politics can be very draining, especially for administrators. Additionally, it is also something that can potential cause division among a community, and shatter it.

It's also not always possilble to satisfy every member's every doubt on any given issue. There will inevitably be people who don't see the logic behind any given ban/etc -- particularly on a forum like this where social awareness is a level below other places.

It takes an awareness of social dynamics to identify when certain actions are a transgression to the overall community atmosphere. This is the pitfall of INTPs, as they have inferior Fe, meaning it'll be difficult for them to see the rationale behind a moral call - or arguably any moral calls in general.

This is the very reason why this forum is as lenient as it is, but even then it has to have people in leadership positions that do have some social awareness, in order to handle issues that inescapably accompany any community. But as a result, other members without such a keen awareness may not see the reasons behind it -- but it is unrealistic to oblige the staff to satiate every member's question.

At some point the members have to have faith in their staff and trust they're doing this for them. But if they do have a legitimate objection - then send them a PM. If your reasoning/perspective aides their ability to make a better judgment, then they may change their course of action. That would be the proper action to take. Making a public list encourages gossip and conflict..

I hope that helps explain..
 

kantor1003

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BigApplePi:
What is the difference between the majority and "the overall picture" in this case?
The overall picture is certainly based on the perceived relationship forum members as a whole has towards dablob, is it not? If it is, I think a vote would have been a decent way to find out whether people would like to get rid of him or not (particularly because he was such an active member having been here for most of the forums existence. If it was anyone else of lesser influence, just banning him outright would be fine I think), or found him such a disturbance that such a decision would have been preferred, even though I see how a vote can be troublesome as well. You mention finances, resources, personal energy, and management energy. I don't see how any of these parameters apply to da blob to a greater extent than many other still active members here, particularly management energy, as he, as far as I know, didn't post anything out of line and was therefore not a member that would be in need of close supervision compared to other members.

I have however, after reading posts by jennywocky in particular, come to understand why the ban was made even though I still don't agree with the decision (not that that matters (just sharing my view)). Also, I got to say I was quite shocked seeing him banned and I expected, until very recently, that surely he would be allowed back into this place.
 

Tyria

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The forum is not run as a democracy. The admins use their best judgment and act independently.

Having a vote would only create a system that would create more drama (especially if the vote was tied, opinions were written about why or why not, or if a popular member was voted on).

If the member was not banned, there could be bad blood between them and those voting for that member's ban (if the vote was public, still people talk).

The purpose of forums are to encourage participation (and to create a functional community). Voting divides people into 'yes' or 'no'.

I do have a question for the moderators and administrators. Are members given warnings on this forum?
 

BigApplePi

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Edit: kantor - you could save yourself the trouble of reading this post by reading Tyria's. Much shorter.:)
============================

I appreciate your message and hope others will read it.
BigApplePi:
What is the difference between the majority and "the overall picture" in this case?
Say the difference is thirty percent. If the thirty percent were hamstrung enough in posting on this forum due to difficulties with one person, then the entire forum might be affected. The sixty percent might not be so severely affected. That's all I can think of.
The overall picture is certainly based on the perceived relationship forum members as a whole has towards dablob, is it not?
We know the overall picture is not unified.
If it is, I think a vote would have been a decent way to find out whether people would like to get rid of him or not (particularly because he was such an active member having been here for most of the forums existence. If it was anyone else of lesser influence, just banning him outright would be fine I think), or found him such a disturbance that such a decision would have been preferred, even though I see how a vote can be troublesome as well.
Actually haven't I seen threads that set up voting on some topic? If so, that could actually be done. Perhaps you or someone could look into that. Just have a yes/no or yes/no/no opinion categories to ban or not. But you realize such a vote may still not represent what is best. Those with strongest feelings will vote. Those on the periphery who don't visit much but who are potentially good new members won't. The results would be management's call.

Technical point on voting. Voting is a democracy concept. But if a vote was taken to free a personable and popular murderer, should the democracy excuse the murderer? You see things depend on the severity of the difficulty. There are standards higher than voting. That's why we have representative democracy and not pure democracy. At the same time the person may not be guilty of murder. We can't let an innocent person suffer. So that's why we have trials.
You mention finances, resources, personal energy, and management energy. I don't see how any of these parameters apply to da blob to a greater extent than many other still active members here, particularly management energy, as he, as far as I know, didn't post anything out of line and was therefore not a member that would be in need of close supervision compared to other members.
Huh? I don't follow you. Da Blob is presently controversial. Therefore he will take more managment energy to decide. Other members are not going to occupy that energy.

I have however, after reading posts by jennywocky in particular, come to understand why the ban was made even though I still don't agree with the decision (not that that matters (just sharing my view)). Also, I got to say I was quite shocked seeing him banned and I expected, until very recently, that surely he would be allowed back into this place.
I share your view hoping he would be allowed back at least conditionally. Presently I have not heard from him.
 
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Puffy

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I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time seeing Blob's passing as detrimental to the forum, nor do I see it as some sort of pattern that's going to build and quell discussion. Maybe that's just my personal intuition on the matter, but he seems like an isolated and individual case... and he lasted a very long time in that zone. The same reasoning could have been applied against him months and/or years ago, but the administration was very patient and let things continue for a very long time before finally deciding to pull the plug. It suggests they'll be pretty level-headed and long-suffering in other situations as well, as I can't imagine anyone being more Da Blob than Da Blob was. I'm glad that some people here were able to respond positively to his presence and feel like he was of some benefit to them; as I stated before, he was extremely detrimental to my participation and part of the reason I've moved on; he was far too reminiscent of a world that I spent much of my life fighting to escape.

I'm sorry to hear that either way, as I always enjoyed your posts. I'm not going to respond in detail only because I feel this is likely not a thread you want to keep coming back to.

This is difficult to put into words. All I'll say is I'm glad this thread exists and that many people have been able to express their opinion, and have wanted to, because I think if the opposite had happened and it had been ignored it would have reflected negatively on the community. It's not just about the banning to me, it's about a sense of the community's care for it's own members; he'd been around for years, like or dislike, if he just suddenly went and there was no talk about it what would that say? I guess either that you're completely right, he was a detriment and everyone was breathing a sigh of relief, or that the community had become apathetic enough to not really care.

That's where I'm coming from when I say that. I don't wish to undermine your experience with him, and I think I understand where you're coming from as well.

Blob was like a bit of the forum furniture I suppose, a staple, you just get used to seeing him there. ;)

...I must just be a bit of a hoarder. :D I once held on to a pair of trainers I had as a kid even though they were riddled with holes and I couldn't wear them. My Mum tried to throw them out, but I found them and hid them in my closet for years, until my Dad cleared out my room (without my permission) and burned them. Just didn't want the thought that my other clothes might miss them (back then, I was a kid afterall.) I think I held on to some holey trousers as well, until my Dad ripped them. :mad: *sigh*:slashnew:

I'm bad at writing short posts. And Blob's gone from a weed to a trainer, lol, such a proud day!:smiley_emoticons_mr
 

Fukyo

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@ Awaken - The issue with making a public spectacle of these actions is that it would practically be inviting more drama. For every public moral call that is made, there will be people who agree and disagree with it -- and all of that politics can be very draining, especially for administrators. Additionally, it is also something that can potential cause division among a community, and shatter it.


With respect to the point you're trying to make...

I'm not one to encourage drama, however, as Puffy pointed out Blob was one of the old timers on this forum, given he has been around so long, and the sudden, seemingly unprovoked banning does come as a surprise at the first look and raises questions with the community. I think it's only normal people wonder and will want to chime in, and should be at liberty to do as, so long as discourse doesn't dissolve into bad blood. :kilroy:
 

Auburn

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Yes. ^^
Agreed, a discussion was due, given this situation/member.
And I actually like this thread too, for the insights that have been shared.
 
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