Connections

[Artifice Orisit]

How do you connect with people?

I fear that I've lost something, or that I never had it in the first place, the ability to connect, by which I am referring to that almost physical bond people seem to have, like how at a party where everyone stands around in there little groups, it seems so natural, but I don't understand it. How do people stand around (as if bound within some invisible field) and talk about seemingly random inanities, that I can only hope nobody cares about?

It bothers me that when asked who my friends are I'm forced to choose between listing various associates whom I care nothing about or leaving myself open for ridicule by mentioning this place... I but can't help but wonder if this ridicule is somehow warranted. It's a cruel paradox, here I have everything I need, but nothing I want, to be metaphorical I'm living off pills that satisfy my dietary requirements, fulfilling the objective needs for life, but without the subjective fulfilment of actual food.

To be perfectly clear the ability to interact freely here staves off the insanity of an isolated mind, but leaves me tormented by the companionship of those around me in the “real” world; I'm not inherently lonely, in fact I'm happiest when left alone, but the curiosity that drives me to understand why others value their friendships so much is driving me mad in that "it never really will, but still hurts" kind of way.

So, what is it that binds these people (if the answer's just tribalistic/herd-instincts driven by insecurity and a dependence upon self-affirming interaction, I will despair) and/or how can I stop myself from walking away when I loose interest, heck must I play this silly game before I can have worthwhile conversations with people, and indeed will those conversations be worthwhile?
...
Where can I find worthwhile people?

 

[Da Blob]

What can I say, 'I' find the universe of "We", (or the plural self) to be pretty much unknown territory. My educational background points to explanations in attachment theory or finding my proper place on the autistic spectrum, or within cluster A of the personality disorders...

http://www.amazon.com/Attachment-Theory-Close-Relationships-ebook/dp/B000VXM4OQ

I have not read this book, however, I noticed that on the bottom of this page there is a list of similar books, so I guess your query is not unique and quite a few others have addressed the topic...

 

[Beat Mango]

I fear I've lost the same thing. What you're lacking, by the sounds of it, is affect: that quality where seeing the emotions of another affects your own, and, the stimulation gained by sheer fact of being in proximity to someone. A feeling of pleasure from having someone smile at you, or show any positive emotion. The emotion instinct (e/mote: move towards. Credit: schizoid.info)

Just to expand: I go to work and am no affected by anyone at all (well, with some minor exceptions). I could easily walk through the office, the elevators, not say a word to anyone or offer a smile, and be completely content. This seems to unnerve some people. But there are times when I want to connect, when I observe the laughter of the extrovert and envy their lightness of being, their easy amalgamation into the world. I really don't know how to resolve the tension between these two conflicting drives: one to solitude, the other to my fellow humans.

 

[Da Blob]

Hmmm I think part of the problem is that at lot of people find comfort, reassurance, and validation in their social identity. In fact, it may well be that some 'identify' with their social identity more than their personal identities..

Again, C. H. Cooley, presented the idea that people are just mirrors of Self. So what happens if you do not see your Self reflected back from others? I mean how can Intelligence be reflected from the unintelligent? How can a narrow-minded person reflect an open-minded person?

It is a paradox, a valid reflection of Self, seemingly can only occur amongst those who already 'mirror' or share abilities, intelligence and experiences....(?) So what happens to those that can not reflect off of such peers, because of rare abilities, intelligence or experiences...?

They wear a mask and pretend to be less than who they are to facilitate 'socialization'?
Such that do so, soon realize that is living a lie, a falsehood that really is not fulfilling the need to be recognized and accepted for being self...

This forum, may be a place for peers to meet. However, it is perhaps inadequate to provide that which peers in the 'real' world provide for each other...?

 

[nickgray]

How do you connect with people?

I don't. From my experience people in general are shallow, stupid and they just suck.

Where can I find worthwhile people?

It's a matter of luck, probably.

 

[preilemus]

Most of the people I am friends with are those who I just 'click' with. It's sort of innate, I guess, to tell when you encounter someone like yourself. Thats not to say that it always happens often. last year I transferred schools and went the entire year without making a single friend (Though I had a good defense when people asked me who my friends were. if someone from my new school asked, I would name people from my old school, and when people from my old school asked, I would name people from my new school).

But even the people that I do click with, it's not always a wonderful friendship, it was just born out of something innate, and now we're stuck together, pretty much. I see the people who could provide real intellectual discussion- most of them are tho ones with 4.3 GPAs and applying to Harvard- but they're normally as reclusive as I am, and my previous diffidence in school means I am not in the top tier classes, so chances of us getting to know each other are slim.

back on track: I feel as you do too. In real life, I connect with some, but not many, as I see many not worth the time to be friends with. I still keep my 'close' friends at an arms length though. I guess I am afraid to let anyone come too close. On this forum though, is where I am reminded the most. I actually see people on here that I want to get to know, and be friends with, but I've been here for over 6 months, and still feel like I am standing outside of a tightly packed huddle of people around a bonfire. I thought maybe by being here, and having a presence, I would find my way into the huddle, and be considered friends with the others who have frequented this site for longer than I have; yet no sense of inclusion came. I'm still just some guy on the outside, which is painful to admit to myself, considering I look for more comfort here than anywhere else.

 

[Carnap]

I have the same problem as you, but there are people I connect to. It's rare, though.

Let's start with the people the repulse me. And I mean that literally, in a very subtle physical way. Like magnets. I had an appointment with a fellow student and the minute I saw him walking my I was just slightly repulsed and I saw him do the same. He sort of had an involuntary jerk of the head, subtle, and sorta glared at me.

Then, the person I fell in love with, the minute I saw him walk and move his hand with a pencil in it, I giggled. I thought 'now that's a great character'. And for months I just thought I was neutral to him, but liked him, professionally/casually until one day, my subconscious had collected enough info or whatever and it spilled over into my conscious mind and I was madly in love.

So I think it's almost physical, we can detect what kind of personalities are good for us, etc.

Another one. When I first got to France I took a class with other foreigners from all over the world. I looked all around (it was all women) and everyone seemed boring. Then, came in late this blonde Serbian girl that you could just see had a strong personality shining through, this caustic attitude. And she didn't say anything or do anything, but I immediately thought 'I want that one to be my friend.'

And we were best friends after that.

I just think somehow the subconscious knows.

That doesn't help now cause I've got no one. No man, no friend.


Edit h darn the person above made a similar post sorry

 

[Ombat]

I find it difficult to connect with people on most days. I usually move from one group of people to the next within minutes because I feel as though some invisible force is actually repelling me from them, like they're in a bubble and I'm in a bubble and the two bubbles only bounce off of eachother. It's almost like they're speaking jibberish and I can't understand them.

On the other hand, some people's personalities are just compatible... I'm happy talking about anything with some of my friends because I like to be around them. But would I mind if I was sitting by myself talking to nobody? Most of the time, no. A good amount of the time I prefer it.

So, what is it that binds these people (if the answer's just tribalistic/herd-instincts driven by insecurity and a dependence upon self-affirming interaction, I will despair) and/or how can I stop myself from walking away when I loose interest, heck must I play this silly game before I can have worthwhile conversations with people, and indeed will those conversations be worthwhile?

Most people are just looking for companionship. I think the difference is in the definition of a worthwhile conversation.

What exactly is this for you? What do you want to talk about?

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Anything with a "ology" or "ism" at the end of it, and what/why of people's opinions.
I also love to find out what makes people tick, metaphorically.

I actually see people on here that I want to get to know, and be friends with, but I've been here for over 6 months, and still feel like I am standing outside of a tightly packed huddle of people around a bonfire. I thought maybe by being here, and having a presence, I would find my way into the huddle, and be considered friends with the others who have frequented this site for longer than I have; yet no sense of inclusion came. I'm still just some guy on the outside, which is painful to admit to myself, considering I look for more comfort here than anywhere else.

Preilemus, if you want to get to know the people here on a more personal level I'd suggest getting into a PM conversation, I doubt there's anyone here who wouldn't want to get to know you better.
And if you want to make yourself a more prominent figure in this forum, characterize yourself, be larger than life, make it abundantly clear how you're different to everyone else, embrace your individuality despite however eccentric it may be, because that's actually a good thing.

The same goes for everyone else too, never be afraid of being different.
...
I suppose if I was to take my own advice IRL I'd write up some little thought provoking philosophy posters with an email address on them and stick them up around town; sure it's a strange idea, but who dictated that strange is a bad thing?

Now I just need to work up the courage to actually do it

 

[echoplex]

Yeah, -ologys and -isms would be nice. I usually just settle for humor, because almost all people like to laugh, and they like to know they're making you laugh. However, I can't say this usually causes any connection to form. It's odd, but it's as if I've just given up on connecting to the point that I don't even seem to miss it. Tbh, this thread kind of jolted me back into thinking "Oh wow, that's right, I'm missing something. Sigh...", but it's like I've become satisfied with certain types of "empty" interaction, because in many ways I don't think I truly believe I deserve better. It's like there's always something about myself that's missing that's keeping me from connecting with someone. I can think I'm close and yet be so far away.

Eh, it's probably all my fault though.

And yeah, I can relate to Preilemus on feeling like I'm on the outside. I would suspect that many here feel that way though. It seems that many of us tend to feel like outcasts even among other outcasts. There was a recent thread that discussed this feeling.

 

[Agent Intellect]

I find that a good way to get conversations going your way offline is to just be blunt about it - ask people strange, out-of-the-absurdity questions. Most of the time people won't have a great answer because they've never thought about it before (and have been put on the spot), but it forces the brain to begin mulling it over (sort of the same idea as the game (in your faces)). I use this tactic at work on occasion, and I've actually gotten a few interesting conversations out of it, even with the Sensors that I work with. It's actually interesting to get other peoples take on different topics, but of course it helps that I work with them, so it's rather forced interaction already.

 

[Beat Mango]

Oh and how's this for weird - I talk to people on msn and facebook, old classmates, co-workers, friends of friends etc, that I have no intention of meeting up with in person! It's like I get the small interpersonal fill that I need to retreat back into my own world. Bizarre really, isn't it.

 

[kantor1003]

I find that a good way to get conversations going your way offline is to just be blunt about it - ask people strange, out-of-the-absurdity questions.

I'd be curious about what kinda questions that might be. Or more specifically, what kinda absurd, out of place questions you tend to ask as I sometimes do this myself.

 

[cheese]

Today I walked past a girl with an ENFP sticker on her fucking shirt. I had to ask. It wasn't awkward at all. In fact it was awesome.

 

[Da Blob]

Hmmm Some further thoughts - kinda semi-related. In my mind I view this forum as an echo/reflection of the ancient Greek Forum of Athens. I get up on my soapbox podium and make declarations to a faceless mob, so to speak... Those that respond from that mob with an intelligent or thought provoking reply 'suddenly' acquire a face. I can't help but suspect that any behavior i exhibit in front of a group of people has to be classified as a 'performance' of some kind that may or may not reflect my actual identity. Frankly, I am not good with groups. I have always been intimidated by groups and have usually been treated as an outsider- one of Them instead of one of Us. I think this forum is the perfect place for such as i to become one of Us, a member of the group/clan/tribe.

That being said I wonder how much sincere communication occurs in a group setting. Cog is correct, If a person wants to be known and appreciated as an individual, it has to be by other individuals, he or she must establish links of communication of a one-on-one nature such as PMs or whatever. I have gotten PMs from dozens of forum members and most were of a friendly sort Apologies for this or that, thank you's, personal questions and other polite communications.

Besides the hurdle of group dynamics (an interesting topic IMO) there is the issue of nonverbal forms of communication in the real world. It always seemed to me as if there was a secret language of Others that I could not 'hear' much less understand. I found out later in life that the majority (60-90%) of information shared in a conversation is of a non-verbal form. I have always been very good with words and I am lost when dealing with someone who is not good with words and resorts to some type of nonverbal format instead. I think it might help if we assumed in some cases that the people we deal with are simply nonverbal people at heart and never have been comfortable using words to express meaningful issues...

 

[Beat Mango]

Today I walked past a girl with an ENFP sticker on her fucking shirt. I had to ask. It wasn't awkward at all. In fact it was awesome.

Did you reveal to her your INTPness?

 

[Darby]

I don't. From my experience people in general are shallow, stupid and they just suck.

They wear a mask and pretend to be less than who they are to facilitate 'socialization'?
Such that do so, soon realize that is living a lie, a falsehood that really is not fulfilling the need to be recognized and accepted for being self...

I find it interesting that you talk of friendships outside of interaction with another through the internet as being any more valid then relationships gained through a computer. I do not dissagree with either of these posts, and i only wish they weren't true, but sadly they are...to a point; the first is a very general statement which in a normal scale i would accept, but when dealing with people, you have to realize that there is no general population, each person has an infinite number of workings within their net, and to associate that net with any other is....interesting at best, and for the second one, that comes as part of the territory, to go into a social situation, you have to realize that you will not be 100% yourself, not to say that you can't try, but some meaning will always get lost during the voyage from your head to theirs, language is imperfect. the only thing you can do is hope that they pick up the pieces and can fit them back together properly. but that takes time, and patience:]

that is why i personally have been driven to find any amount of kindness i have, in order to give it to those around me...and patience, my god i need a lot of that.

I may not be liked by everyone, but i've managed to not be disliked by anyone. and i don't see it as being fake, because it was a decision i made because i felt it was important, and it helps me to understand those around me. I find it interesting personally that all of the friends i have managed to aquire which i consider close, not aquaintances, are either brilliant, or have some sort of handycap or mental whatever. YES they are frustrating sometimes, YES i get tired, but when you have people who are individual in their own right, how can they NOT be interesting. There is a font of information in each person, and the things you learn may not be perfectly tangible, in ANY way, but it is information that leads to a better understanding of the world

i am not socially adept in any way, but i smile ALWAYS, and i say things i'd like to hear if i were feeling terrible....even if it's not what they look for, it's generally appreciated. remember, it's the thought that counts.

and yes, i had MANY troubles with being accepted socially, but you have to be able to make assumptions, and as you go along it will get better, i still hate groups larger than 2-3(including myself), but it's something that is needed for myself to feel accepted, and i think it's more that i fear that if my personal network i've set up for myself fails, then what will happen to me?


this is waaaaaaay too long and i apologize, but i hope it helps....maybe:/

 

[cheese]

Did you reveal to her your INTPness?

It got caught in my zip. I wanted to run away screaming, but she kissed it better.

(I didn't. She was so caught up in talking herself I didn't consider it necessary.)

 

[Da Blob]

*slaps self for considering making remark on comment above...*

There are methods one can use (algorithms, so to speak) to make "Connections"

One my grandfather employed, that I was Extremely skeptical about until I tried it, was that he just assumed he was Superior to Others ...

Now this was done as a Christian, so his attitude was that he had something to give Others who less fortunate than he was - either intellectually, emotionally, socially etc. He saw every interaction with Others as an opportunity to give to them, share with them. He would run into the rain to pump gas for a person if he had rain gear on and they did not etc.

He was able to accumulate a long list of close friends in that manner. Using social interactions to give to his 'inferiors' instead of trying to take something from them. It is odd he was able to get everything he needed without ever 'taking' it. He was able to get everything he needed by first giving it away (a mystery there).

It just so happens that many people who might be potential friends will respond to a gift by giving one back of their own.. And for that matter the sting of social rejection often occurs when Others refuse to accept a freely given gift when offered and respond with a 'put down' instead of a gift of their own...

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Interesting, though I'll never accept theology and my personal nihilistic beliefs are so far from the accepted norm that most would rather call me insane than listen to me.

Anyway I understand the underlying principle, what goes around comes around, i.e. if one wishes others to openly share their thought than one must be willing to first openly share hir own.
A variation of: Those with open hearts are most easily loved by others.

Auburn's a great example of this, our "F" incarnate, who couldn't like Auburn?

 

[420MuNkEy]

I've noticed that a lot of people actively avoid conversation that's intellectually stimulating whatsoever. They seem to perceive any meaningful discourse as a heated argument or are just too worried that someones 'feelings' may get hurt and try to stifle it immediately. The same behavior occurred between the husband and wife in public in the Victorian era; they would stick to subjects like the weather, so as to not instigate passion (which would be viewed as indecent and offend someone, thus hurting their 'feelings').

'Feeling' people who are paranoid about the mental fragility of others will likely always attempt to stifle meaningful public discourse. Because of this, those of us who don't get anything out of mind-numbingly trivial conversation will always have a hard time forming any sort of connection with people in a public/group setting.

 

[Felan]

Today I walked past a girl with an ENFP sticker on her fucking shirt. I had to ask. It wasn't awkward at all. In fact it was awesome.

She has a shirt only for fucking and you asked about ENFP? What is wrong with you!?!

 

[cheese]

Yeah well, when I saw her only-for-money panties I did some pretty nifty conversational steering.

 

[Darby]

There are methods one can use (algorithms, so to speak) to make "Connections"

One my grandfather employed, that I was Extremely skeptical about until I tried it, was that he just assumed he was Superior to Others ...

I used this for many years, as i went to schools where the majority of the population had learning disabilities. i am regularly regarded as our classes "math savior" it is not something i enjoy, i ended up being regarded as a tool to be used when needed, much like a computer, and it felt like i wasn't gaining anything in return.

now as i am becoming a young adult, im noticing that intellectual capacity is not the only thing out there to give, my way of thinking is far from perfect, and sometimes those who are incapable of seeing the greater picture give better insight to the finite details required to create the network of the big picture.

i also noticed that many people on these forums who have their "mypersonality" tests in their signatures seem to have verbal/linguistic as one of their top 3 learning types, while not having visual/spatial which i think is interesting, because mine is opposite, and on most, although i didnt see it on the test at all, i tend to score very high in textile/hands-on which forces me to interact with things/people in order to learn, so it is not much of a choice on my part

 

[Ashenstar]

I find myself baffled/mystified by human connections in general. Most recent example. I was waiting for the MAX(kinda like an above ground subway. public transportation) It was night time and freezing cold. The MAX was late an the people around me started to get irritated. One man in particular was walking back and forth in the waiting area kind of adressing everyone there about how it was rediculous etc. Then some other girl joined and commented how she thought it was BS. Then a young boy, probably about 20 or so decided he wanted to be a part too so he chimed in about how the people who run the MAX just like to pis people off. There were a few others who laughed and joined in the complaining. I sat there for the whole 30 minutes by myself on a bench watching these people make a connection to each other. Perfect stangers! I never said a single word. It was all so very strange.....and facinating.

 

[Beat Mango]

I've noticed that a lot of people actively avoid conversation that's intellectually stimulating whatsoever. They seem to perceive any meaningful discourse as a heated argument or are just too worried that someones 'feelings' may get hurt and try to stifle it immediately. The same behavior occurred between the husband and wife in public in the Victorian era; they would stick to subjects like the weather, so as to not instigate passion (which would be viewed as indecent and offend someone, thus hurting their 'feelings').

'Feeling' people who are paranoid about the mental fragility of others will likely always attempt to stifle meaningful public discourse. Because of this, those of us who don't get anything out of mind-numbingly trivial conversation will always have a hard time forming any sort of connection with people in a public/group setting.

SF people, yes. I have offended and continue to offend many an SF. I don't think what you've said applies to NFs though, they're cool. Honestly I do my best with S types, I really do, but by gee it's tough at times...

 

[WoodsWoman]

Introverts don't have lives off the internet. I have more stimulating interaction with people thousands of miles away than I do with those I see in person.

 

[Dark_Amphibian]

They wear a mask and pretend to be less than who they are to facilitate 'socialization'?
Such that do so, soon realize that is living a lie, a falsehood that really is not fulfilling the need to be recognized and accepted for being self...

Hmmm. I'm glad you gave that example about your grandfather and admitted trying it yourself. I don't think it's a mask to try out different ways of looking at things or interacting. Also, this "socialization" thing is not black/white...there are many shades of gray. Are you really living a lie if you conform to the expectation of not talking during movies, using utensils to eat, and so on?

On the other hand *grins*...
I miss picnics and blue jeans and buckets of beer,
Now it's ballet and symphony hall;
I'm into culture, clean up to my ears,
It's like wearin' a shoe that's too small.
Oh, I caught her with an issue of Brides magazine,
Starin' at dresses and pickin' out rings.

Chorus:
But you know me better than that,
You know the me that gets lazy and fat.
How moody I can be, all my insecurities.
You've seen me lose all my charm,
You know I was raised on a farm.
Oh, she tells her friends I'm perfect,
And that I love her cat,
But you know me better than that.

Oh, she tells her friends I'm perfect,
And that I love that cat,
Oh, but you know me better than that..