Caffeine therapy

[Architect]

Just looking for a discussion here ...

So I drink tea, which has many health benefits. Coffee has some too but it's a piker compared to tea. Which is nice, but of course it also has stimulants along with chemicals that have a soothing or calming effect. I really like my cuppa.

The deal is, I'm getting more sensitive to caffeine. I don't sleep as well, if I'm drinking a bit more for a longer time then I start to feel like I'm not sleeping at all. Not good. Not good for my creativity or general peace of mind.

On the flip side, I'm not drinking a lot now. Just a cup or two, and even that little tea is enough to get my head in the game so I can get some work done. It's like the tea makes me less of an INTP. I'm more willing to do something instead of just sit around and philosophize.

Rock and a hard place, it seems.

 

[snafupants]

I sleep long and well, even with medium caffeine intake. I'm pretty sure caffeine disallows adenosine, so you feel less sleepy. Caffeine also might release some glycogen and stress chemicals. I spread out my first cup of java over a few hours right after I have had a carb-heavy breakfast. If I get really tired, I have half a cup five hours before sleep. The half-life for caffeine is something like seven hours. I have also heard that from ages 20 to 50 you produce 1/2 the melatonin. So, Architect, it sounds like double trouble. You could take melatonin or avoid intense light before bed maybe. Or you could eat turkey (tryptophan) and fish oil (serotonin) at night. I take reishi mushroom whenever I've overdone caffeine. Um, I also wear earplugs when I sleep.

It's like the tea makes me less of an INTP. I'm more willing to do something instead of just sit around and philosophize.

Wait, that sounds horrible. Ditch the tea!

 

[BigApplePi]

Just looking for a discussion here ...

So I drink tea, which has many health benefits. Coffee has some too but it's a piker compared to tea. Which is nice, but of course it also has stimulants along with chemicals that have a soothing or calming effect. I really like my cuppa.

I drink fruit juice diluted 50-50 with cold water. There is a brand out there with many fruit choices. My favorite is, "Secrets of the Valley."

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Combine tea and decaf?

 

[snafupants]

Heroin might be the solution for your nocturnal woes. Side effects may include impotence and ruining your life.

 

[BigApplePi]

Doesn't mean it isn't worth it.

 

[snafupants]

Doesn't mean it isn't worth it.

That's true. It's really a philosophical question. It makes more sense coupled with cancer or excruciating physical pain or a zombie apocalypse or a musician's lifestyle. Heroin is altogether too dramatic for my life. Well, I might do it once if someone experienced shot me up.

 

[BigApplePi]

That's true. It's really a philosophical question. It makes more sense coupled with cancer or excruciating physical pain or a zombie apocalypse or a musician's lifestyle. Heroin is altogether too dramatic for my life. Well, I might do it once if someone experienced shot me up***.

It's like rape and robbery. Don't knock it if it hasn't happened to you at least once.
_______

***Beware those dirty needles.

 

[TriflinThomas]

Same thing happened to me (with regards to sensitivity to caffeine), i just stocked up on ibuprofen and quit cold turkey. Now I only drink coffee if I want to improve my biking times. And I only have tea before 6pm. I thought it would be difficult living without caffeine, but it's manageable (if you have the perseverance).

 

[Duxwing]

I quit caffeine cold turkey when I was thirteen and haven't looked back: I need to keep my calcium.

-Duxwing

 

[Back2Basics]

I quit caffeine cold turkey when I was thirteen and haven't looked back: I need to keep my calcium.

-Duxwing

How come?

-Back2Basics

 

[Architect]

Same thing happened to me (with regards to sensitivity to caffeine), i just stocked up on ibuprofen and quit cold turkey. Now I only drink coffee if I want to improve my biking times. And I only have tea before 6pm. I thought it would be difficult living without caffeine, but it's manageable (if you have the perseverance).

It's always been easy for me to quit. A little tired and cranky in the morning with a slight headache that goes away. My problem is that I like myself with a little caffeine.

But I don't understand, you say you are off caffeine, but you drink tea before 6 and coffee occasionally?

 

[joal0503]

caffeine is one of the world's most abused, used, yet counter-intuitively, most readily available drug in the world.

in fact, name a workplace that didnt feature a coffee pot. it drives the machine. and god damnt, i really wish we could have dooby breaks in place of coffee breaks. pointing out the obvious hypocrisy with drugs, thats just an entirely different rant....

I DO however, find there to be a sort of cultural attraction/indoctrination ive had with the various substances containing a lot of caffeine....you got the worker bees growing up watching all the adults engage in 'adult' behavior, always with their coffee...you have the extreme, energy crazed youngin's attracted to bright green cans and extreme sports athletes...i dunno...just lame.

but to me over the years, no doubt there is a substantial impact (yet often overlooked) caffeine has on me...im currently running a double tall of some really potent columbian shit right now and its got me tickin...

but like you, im sort of torn. I know theres gonna be a crash, but yea sometimes the trade off is to just give in, and ride the wave of caffeination.

 

[Duxwing]

How come?

-Back2Basics

I used to have hypercalcuria (an excess of calcium in the urine) and caffeinated drinks often contain other chemicals that leech it from my bones. Also, I feel a sense of satisfaction in getting out of bed without having to use a "crutch".

-Duxwing

 

[joal0503]

I used to have hypercalcuria (an excess of calcium in the urine) and caffeinated drinks often contain other chemicals that leech it from my bones. Also, I feel a sense of satisfaction in getting out of bed without having to use a "crutch".

-Duxwing

jesus, how much caffeine were you consuming as a 13 year old?

 

[Cavallier]

I was going to point out that you could drink non-caffeinated tea but then realized that you still want the caffeine...

I'd stick to not drinking it later in the day. It could be that the small amount of caffeine (only two cups a day right?) is not the cause of your sleeplessness?

 

[TriflinThomas]

It's always been easy for me to quit. A little tired and cranky in the morning with a slight headache that goes away. My problem is that I like myself with a little caffeine.

But I don't understand, you say you are off caffeine, but you drink tea before 6 and coffee occasionally?

Yeah, my favorite tea is black tea, so I'll have a cup like once a week maybe but I steep it carefully so I get the least amount of caffeine from the tea as possible; and always before 6pm so the caffeine doesn't bother my sleep too much. I'll have coffee before I go biking if my body doesn't really feel up to it, but that is also about once every other week.

 

[Duxwing]

jesus, how much caffeine were you consuming as a 13 year old?

The hypercalcuria wasn't caused by the caffeine; rather, the former was aggravated by the latter. Regarding precise measurements of my consumption: about a glass of diet soda a day. As a side note, I've had coffee once, and it was so disgusting that I spat it right back out: the stuff is as bitter as Cognisant.

-Duxwing

 

[Proletar]

I get all caffeined up at work all day, and quite frankly it's needed. One mug with extra strength and extra size each hour until I go home. I sell and sell and sell, speaking on my telephone.

Also, the shift usually ends at 21:00. Which means that I go home and stay up all night still cranked on the caffeine, only to wake up the next day in time for work, all tired and needing to repeat the circle again. It feels like I'm somehow cheating, getting high on stimulants to the point of making the job interesting.

 

[Duxwing]

I get all caffeined up at work all day, and quite frankly it's needed. One mug with extra strength and extra size each hour until I go home. I sell and sell and sell, speaking on my telephone.

Also, the shift usually ends at 21:00. Which means that I go home and stay up all night still cranked on the caffeine, only to wake up the next day in time for work, all tired and needing to repeat the circle again. It feels like I'm somehow cheating, getting high on stimulants to the point of making the job interesting.

I think that you should taper the caffeine dose as you approach bedtime so that you can sleep when you get home and ultimately reduce your dependence upon caffeine. Start the tapering process-- that is, stop drinking coffee after 20:00 on Monday, then 19:00 on Tuesday, 18:00 on Wednesday, and so on-- this Monday, since you'll be 'fresh' as opposed to locked into the caffeine-no sleep cycle. By tapering your dose, you will be less "cranked up" at bedtime and therefore able to sleep earlier in the night. The greater daytime alertness that you'll gain from sleeping more will in turn decrease your need for caffeine. With a lesser need for caffeine, then, you'll drink less of it and be even better able to sleep at night, thereby leading to a virtuous cycle of better rest and more energy. In summary, tapering your caffeine intake as described above will allow you to function with less caffeine in your system.

Best of luck, my friend!
-Duxwing

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Which means that I go home and stay up all night still cranked on the caffeine, only to wake up the next day in time for work, all tired and needing to repeat the circle again. It feels like I'm somehow cheating, getting high on stimulants to the point of making the job interesting.

The key is to change up your stimulants so you don't build up tolerance and have more control over their effects. L-theanine, for example (thanks, A.I.):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine#Effects_on_the_brain

When in such circumstances my overarching goal is to decrease epinepherine as much as possible and exert control over norepinepherine, dopamine, glutamate, and acetylcholine.

 

[just george]

I hate saying this, but...pharmacist speaking.

Caffeine (methylxanthine) is one of those chemicals that people get more sensitive to with age. When people are younger, they can have a coffee before bed and be out like a light. Older people having a coffee after 4pm might suffer insomnia. The inter individual variance is huge.

The logical thing for you to do is learn about the caffeine contents of different strains of tea (although even different teabags of the same tea will vary depending on how much leaf/stem/flower is in the bag, as well as factors like age, storage etc) and see if you can find a strain that you like that has less caffeine in it.

The other logical thing to do is pay attention to how you brew your tea. The longer you steep the tea (or the number of times you dip the teabag in) will affect caffeine dose.

So imo, do a bit of tweaking. Personally Id go nuts if I couldnt drink coffee anymore. I drink it out of soup mugs, because carrying 2 normal mugs around at once makes me look like a bit of a goof. Plus the increased surface area of 2 mugs makes it go colder faster.

Actually you just gave me an idea. Heat mat for your desk to keep your coffee warm. Hmmmmmm

 

[xbox]

Gawd if I dont have my tea at least once in a day, i get the worst headache ever.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Actually you just gave me an idea. Heat mat for your desk to keep your coffee warm. Hmmmmmm

It'd be outcompeted by insulated mugs/thermoses.

 

[just george]

It'd be outcompeted by insulated mugs/thermoses.

I agree. But then again, more wine is sold in boxes than in bottles.

It's hard being this stylish

 

[crippli]

I drink fruit juice diluted 50-50 with cold water. There is a brand out there with many fruit choices. My favorite is, "Secrets of the Valley."

The same. I prefer pineapple, not from concentrate. Water and this would be mostly what I need for liquid.

Maybe I've drunk 20 cups of coffee during my long lifetime. I've faked that I like it sometimes, and drank it to impress. I drink 2-3 bottles of soda a year. 2-3 cups of tea a year. That would be about it. Not sure why I don't like it. I find it odd that there are so many who do, most everyone I know actually.

 

[redbaron]

Used to drink a coffee a day for about 3-4 months, until I realised that I was starting to 'need' it and would get headaches without it. Wasn't hard to give up, the hardest part was probably just the fact that like others have said, it's so readily available and it's almost a part of culture to drink coffee. The actual desire to drink it wasn't so great.

Haven't had any caffeine for years now. I drink chamomile or peppermint tea since they're caffeine free, haven't touched a soda for years either.

Can't say I miss it either, can't believe I ever started drinking coffee in the first place.

 

[Architect]

I hate saying this, but...pharmacist speaking.

Caffeine (methylxanthine) is one of those chemicals that people get more sensitive to with age. When people are younger, they can have a coffee before bed and be out like a light. Older people having a coffee after 4pm might suffer insomnia. The inter individual variance is huge.

The logical thing for you to do is learn about the caffeine contents of different strains of tea (although even different teabags of the same tea will vary depending on how much leaf/stem/flower is in the bag, as well as factors like age, storage etc) and see if you can find a strain that you like that has less caffeine in it.

I picked up the habit when I was traveling to Japan. Certain varieties of green and white have the lowest caffeine of any of them. Some have a lot, like Matcha which is green tea powder used in the Tea Ceremony. Matcha leaves are grown in shade, which converts the chlorophyl to caffeine and turns it into rocket juice.

At any rate I think the problem isn't the caffeine but something else. I can sleep no problem when I have a few cups in the morning, the problem is that I don't sleep very deeply. I'm active and I sleep less. Overall I have more energy. It could be one of the other stimulants in tea.

The other logical thing to do is pay attention to how you brew your tea. The longer you steep the tea (or the number of times you dip the teabag in) will affect caffeine dose.

I'm drinking 'high end' tea with carefully proscribed brewing methods, I don't touch the bags.

My wife suggested having it occasionally. Maybe I'll only allow myself to drink it a few times a week.

 

[snafupants]

Used to drink a coffee a day for about 3-4 months, until I realised that I was starting to 'need' it and would get headaches without it.

That reasoning has always struck me as odd, especially given coffee's upsides. You "need" food. Going without food for too long has side effects, but because food confers benefits/is necessary for survival, you just try to diminish the side effects - e.g., low blood sugar - by eating regular meals.

 

[joal0503]

That reasoning has always struck me as odd, especially given coffee's upsides. You "need" food. Going without food for too long has side effects, but because food confers benefits/is necessary for survival, you just try to diminish the side effects - e.g., low blood sugar - by eating regular meals.

caffeine tolerance/addiction/whatever you wanna call it is an odd reason to avoid the substance?

 

[snafupants]

caffeine tolerance/addiction/whatever you wanna call it is an odd reason to avoid the substance?

Given the benefits for me and millions of others, very much so.

 

[Architect]

I had a realization based on this thread. I drink tea not just for taste but to help me motivate and power through work. Now for taste I can do without tea (I'm hardly a foodie). For motivation, if I'm having trouble, isn't drinking tea fixing the symptom not the cause? Now lack of motivation likely means I'm I'm not engaging my main functions, namely Ti and Ne. So, if I'm not engaging them, why am I doing it at all?

Maybe I'll only drink when I really need it.

 

[Proletar]

If you are already a light sleeper and your sleep is heavily affected by just one cup of tea, I think you should consider using some form of sedative. If you can't even drink your tea, then you are losing quality of life.

I'm not suggesting one of those knock out-pills either, but something light for starters. Like St. John's wort(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_John's_wort) or maybe melatonin. If that doens't work, then maybe medical marijuana. I know what you're thinking, but it's still better than not sleeping properly. Sleep is very important for a healthy life.

 

[Nezaros]

All good reasons why I rarely drink coffee, or soda, or take any drugs. I don't think caffeine has ever really woken me up, only kept me from sleeping when I wanted to. Converse for melatonin pills. And the idea of being dependent on a drug (or anything else, really) sounds horrid.

 

[Architect]

If you are already a light sleeper and your sleep is heavily affected by just one cup of tea, I think you should consider using some form of sedative. If you can't even drink your tea, then you are losing quality of life.

I'm not suggesting one of those knock out-pills either, but something light for starters. Like St. John's wort(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_John's_wort) or maybe melatonin. If that doens't work, then maybe medical marijuana. I know what you're thinking, but it's still better than not sleeping properly. Sleep is very important for a healthy life.

No, no drugs. I'll drop tea before I take up something for sleep.

 

[joal0503]

I had a realization based on this thread. I drink tea not just for taste but to help me motivate and power through work. Now for taste I can do without tea (I'm hardly a foodie). For motivation, if I'm having trouble, isn't drinking tea fixing the symptom not the cause? Now lack of motivation likely means I'm I'm not engaging my main functions, namely Ti and Ne. So, if I'm not engaging them, why am I doing it at all?

Maybe I'll only drink when I really need it.

Totally agree this is the case, but I dont necessarily agree with the larger social perspective on the substance. This is the point I was making earlier...caffeine is a drug that keeps the machine going. God forbid, people take the time to get off of stimulants and slow down to think about shit...NO! Keep drinkin caffeine, it gets you engaged into a zone of physical labor...its essentially the drug that forces us to carry on through the continual, never ending cycle of work weeks, that none of us would tolerate 100% sober. Caffeine is evvvvverywhere ... for a reason.

We know it, we tolerate it. why? because it was there when we got here.

No, no drugs. I'll drop tea before I take up something for
sleep.

caffeine IS a drug. a psychoactive one at that as well.

 

[Duxwing]

I had a realization based on this thread. I drink tea not just for taste but to help me motivate and power through work. Now for taste I can do without tea (I'm hardly a foodie). For motivation, if I'm having trouble, isn't drinking tea fixing the symptom not the cause? Now lack of motivation likely means I'm I'm not engaging my main functions, namely Ti and Ne. So, if I'm not engaging them, why am I doing it at all?

Maybe I'll only drink when I really need it.

Wow, I'm glad that the forum has provided you with insight. Go us! As for your work, I think suggest that you think long and hard about whether you'd like to continue doing your job; it takes up a third of your lifetime, time that you cannot buy back. Ergo, you should choose carefully and be unafraid to switch careers if your current one is so unsatisfactory that you have to drug yourself in order to do it.

-Duxwing

 

[snafupants]

caffeine IS a drug. a psychoactive one at that as well.

So what? Can psychoactive drugs have benefits?

It still seems irresponsible and stupid to class coffee with LSD and nitrous oxide.

Completely false equivalency. An intelligent person inspects every drug individually.

 

[Duxwing]

So what? Can psychoactive drugs have benefits?

It still seems irresponsible and stupid to class coffee with LSD and nitrous oxide.

Completely false equivalency. An intelligent person inspects every drug individually.

And, for many unfortunate souls, the only way to inspect them is experiment.

-Duxwing

 

[snafupants]

And, for many unfortunate souls, the only way to inspect them is experiment.

-Duxwing

Or you could look at the drug's psychopharmacological action and history of un/safe use.

 

[Duxwing]

Or you could look at the drug's psychopharmacological action and history of un/safe use.

Indeed, and I agree that such a route is far safer. I was only pointing out the disturbing regularity with which my peers recrationally imbibe compounds whose full chemical properties remain unknown.

-Duxwing

 

[Architect]

Wow, I'm glad that the forum has provided you with insight. Go us! As for your work, I think suggest that you think long and hard about whether you'd like to continue doing your job; it takes up a third of your lifetime, time that you cannot buy back. Ergo, you should choose carefully and be unafraid to switch careers if your current one is so unsatisfactory that you have to drug yourself in order to do it.

-Duxwing

You misunderstand, my fault surely.

 

[Minuend]

@Jah posted this once: Evidence-Based Practice: Coffee

I don't really notice anything from tea or coffee. Except if I drink a lot, I get very sleepy.

Combine tea and decaf?

Last year, @Polaris told me something about the decaf process that wasn't all good. Can't recall exactly what was said, though.

Maybe I've drunk 20 cups of coffee during my long lifetime. I've faked that I like it sometimes, and drank it to impress. I drink 2-3 bottles of soda a year. 2-3 cups of tea a year. That would be about it. Not sure why I don't like it. I find it odd that there are so many who do, most everyone I know actually.

If you drink the cheap stuff, it usually tastes horrible. Grocery stores around here has started selling some decent Twinings tea (Green mint :3) lately, a bit more expensive than the normal black tea cheap stuff crap. Yogi is one of my fav brands.

All good reasons why I rarely drink coffee, or soda, or take any drugs. I don't think caffeine has ever really woken me up, only kept me from sleeping when I wanted to. Converse for melatonin pills. And the idea of being dependent on a drug (or anything else, really) sounds horrid.

The reason some needs coffee to wake up in the morning is not because it wakes one up up per se, but because you're noticing abstinences that go away when drinking coffee in the morning. In other words, you'd be just as well off if you didn't drink coffee at all.

 

[Duxwing]

You misunderstand, my fault surely.

Oh... well between the "is it engaging my Ti-Ne" and the "whether I should keep doing it" (paraphrased) I think that I got the wrong impression. Since I misunderstood, would you care to say really mean?

-Duxwing

 

[snafupants]

Indeed, and I agree that such a route is far safer. I was only pointing out the disturbing regularity with which my peers recrationally imbibe compounds whose full chemical properties remain unknown.

-Duxwing

Yeah, I steer clear of most pharmaceuticals, inhalants and untested entactogens.

 

[Duxwing]

Yeah, I would shy away from most pharmaceuticals, inhalants and untested entactogens.

In the words of Mr. Krabs, "That's not even a word and I agree with you!"

I kid, I kid. What's an entactogen, THD?

-Duxwing

 

[snafupants]

In the words of Mr. Krabs, "That's not even a word and I agree with you!"

I kid, I kid. What's an entactogen, THD?

-Duxwing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entactogen

The chemical structure of many entactogens contains a substituted amphetamine core, and most belong to the phenethylamine class of psychoactive drugs, although several (AET and AMT) are tryptamines.

 

[Mr Write]

Does tea have a significant effect on the catabolic state?

 

[joal0503]

Or you could look at the drug's psychopharmacological action and history of un/safe use.

nobody 'cool' has the time for that nonsense

Indeed, and I agree that such a route is far safer. I was only pointing out the disturbing regularity with which my peers recrationally imbibe compounds whose full chemical properties remain unknown.

-Duxwing

i know a lot of older folks who went through this sort of testing phases as younger people...but that was at a time where everything was illegal, and information simply wasnt out there. "Drug" education consisted of "DONT DO THAT SHIT"...but the times are a changin, and finally people have figured out drug education should simply be "how to teach people to safely, responsibly use, drugs."

Depending on the circles you run in, i suppose theres always going to be idiots...but there are plenty of younger folk out there today who are gettin the act together.

 

[snafupants]

nobody 'cool' has the time for that nonsense

Ain't nobody got time for khat.