Brains or love?

[QuickTwist]

I feel like at this point everybody on this thread is thinking I'm changing my natural self to be with a guy. I will always be a INTP at heart I will always be analyzer in my head that is just the way my brain works some people hate and very few love it. I honestly just want to bring out more of my feminine side that's been pushed down a lot because after all automatically being born a woman does not make you feminme and being born a man does not always make you masculine.

I just think I want to change the way I use my over analizying especially in relationships. I will still have my uniqueness about the way my mind works no one can take that away from me. I now just want to use my analytic nature for getting closer to people and my creative ideas not mainly using to always correct people or win arguments. So I guess I'm switching my focus

You are more emotional than most on this forum. You don't have as detached of an orientation than many on this forum have. That doesn't mean you are not INTP. If you find value in identifying yourself as such, that all fine and well, just don't lie to yourself. I am guessing you are in college or highschool or something. I say this because you have somewhat of an immature outlook on romantic relationships, no offense. Maybe immature is the wrong word. What I should say is that this is an aspect of your life which you struggle with as a whole. That is not to say you cannot develop this part of yourself, but just be aware that thinking you are changing and changing are not the same thing. You will know you have changed/are changing when your behaviors change. Changing your behaviors is much easier on the ego if the change is coming from getting to know who you are on a deeper level as opposed to going about it by simply changing the behaviors alone. Sometimes we need our worldview to get the shit kicked out of it for real change to happen. That happens when we are trying to discover something. This is generic advice, but you should try and get to know yourself well before deciding to look for a romantic interest.

 

[elliptoid]

INTP and ENTP women both have these same problems with men.

I will tell you why, even if you find it disagreeable.

INTP and ENTP women "think" that "men are scared or bothered" by their "intelligence" when really it's that they are put off by arrogance same as anyone. The "difference" is that men stand "alone" whereas women can get support so once again no matter what the woman is merely existing and the man is offending ... even in imaginationland. So no progress can be made when both parties are stuck 8" deep in dried mud.

INTJs don't have this problem as much. They assume everyone fears their intellect and don't take it personally. They spend 70% of their time miserable and depressed, 20% ruminating, 5% thinking about the opposite sex, 3% masturbating, 1.5% crying about it, and 0.5% taking action.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

Based on what I saw on the INTJ forum, they spend about 40% of their energy trying to figure out how to combat their loneliness, 40% on trying to prove to the world how supposedly smart they are, and 20% on masturbating.

 

[Ex-User (8886)]

So many posts here... I will be quick:
Your sex is not a problem, males have exact situation;
Forget about developing your weak sides (Feeling and sensing), it's a waste of time and you never would be even half good as esfps in these matters;
Don't find love, but meet people, for example I joined lastly a choir and meet 30 awesome people who are more interesting to talk to than people from my major (physics);
Learn basics how to attract men from book(don't believe in every shit, only some info is good for intp) and then last step:
Your partner should do the first steps and should have initiative, you just need to choose some nice esfj,infj, enfj or isfj (best in this order).

 

[Black Rose]

More interested in the mechanism of smartness than looking smart. I know very little about relationships. Redbaron is I think right about being able to talk to someone.

me:

60% internet
10% real life stuff
10% handling nervous system pain
10% loneliness
10% self-pleasure

 

[Turnevies]

they are put off by arrogance same as anyone.

Well, it is always less humiliating to be turned off for being considered too arrogant than for being deemed too physically unattractive. The arrogance in INT's is often to large extent a protective mask, also because of not being popular in the past and feeling underappreciated. This of course leads to a vicious circle.

Also, different people just have different interests that may conflict, and build their morality around that. For example, for a long time I viewed love trough some kind of meritocratic lense: the one who has the largest positive impact on mankind, which happens to align with deep thoughts on society, learning, working hard, thinking out-of-the-box; deserves the hottest bitches so that the good genetic material gets well spread. (It is not really sexist if you give female nerds attractive superficial surferboys as well.)
But the problem with that model is of course that the bitches and the surferboys (ESXP's)have their own agenda, for a system where it is they have the higher status by promoting popularity, attractiveness ... and also their own morality like making people smile...
(This is of course too black and white, only for the sake of arguments)

Bit of a funny thing btw, many not-so-bright people tend to feel a similar kind of entitlement towards having a job than many nerds feel entitlement towards love and sex.

What was my point again? Right, we should all strive to be humble and not instantly dismiss all opinions of people whose popularity/IQ rate is way too high. But at the same time, there is nothing wrong with pushing our own values just a little bit harder, because we as nerds are outnumbered in society and we believe in them.

 

[Ex-User (8886)]

More interested in the mechanism of smartness than looking smart.

That's very good definition of what Ne is. I must remember that.

 

[ruminator]

I have a dilemma I am a female INTP who's been developing their feeling side for some time now. I am now very in touch with my feelings much more than most INTPs most likely. Ive been realizing now that i want to find a strong love connection but it's much harder than I thought it would be. Granted finding love is hard regardless but I now realize what is possibly the main problem. I am a female who gives off alot of masculine energy because i'm always deeply analyzing and always in my head and the majority of straight men want feminine energy which is not being in your head and just experiencing things. Yes I can flirt and be witty when prompted but most times my mind is in philosophy mode, which keeps me entertained and its fun but at times I just really wish I was like the average women who is a ESFJ or similar to that. Its like what's the point of having " the most intelligent " personality type when I'm not even intelligent enough to attract love. I feel like in order to find love 1) I have to find another INTP which is very hard or 2) Mute some of my personality like the analyzing and thinking to become more attractive as a woman. I also know the INTP weakness is exploration because we are used to exploring things in our mind and our satisfied instead of exploring things in the real world. Do any of you INTPs struggle with this as well?

I agree with you that many men prefer feeler women. However, there are plenty of men out there who like thinker women. If you find someone like that, you'll be a lot happier than adjusting yourself to men who aren't your type anyway. I mean, think about it .. if a man wants a feeler woman, is that really the type of man you would want in your life? I want someone who sees value in, and can appreciate, our type of mind.

It's possible, trust me. I've had many men be put off by my analytical mind, but every now and then I find men who are actually attracted to it. And I have so much of a better connection with them, and knowing that they appreciate me for what I am makes me feel good. I think you can find men like that too.

 

[Black Rose]

I agree with you that many men prefer feeler women. However, there are plenty of men out there who like thinker women. If you find someone like that, you'll be a lot happier than adjusting yourself to men who aren't your type anyway. I mean, think about it .. if a man wants a feeler woman, is that really the type of man you would want in your life? I want someone who sees value in, and can appreciate, our type of mind.

It's possible, trust me. I've had many men be put off by my analytical mind, but every now and then I find men who are actually attracted to it. And I have so much of a better connection with them, and knowing that they appreciate me for what I am makes me feel good. I think you can find men like that too.

I edited this, too messy

It can be easier but also a bit complicated to be with a thinking woman because although feeler women may have emotional expressiveness when emotional this is tiresome, but the thinking woman overthinks when depressed or simply over thinks and sometimes does not see this as a problem. So well it may be nice to have that balance of thinking and emotional stability if thinking gets to the point when in a man or woman that they use it to bring up point after point that you cannot bring them out of their negative spirals. You cannot get them out of their own mind. Then they will not be able to be equal in a relationship. This is mostly the Ti thinkers because the Te thinker women will pound your ass to stop whining and get things done. Ti women are the ones inside their heads the Te women outside their heads. Feeler women I find listen better but say little and Sensor women make references a lot. Intuitive being the ones I have the least experience I can only think of myself and how people react to me. People tell me I tell them perspectives they never considered. Seeing the other side of the school or house for the first time. But that is off track. Thinking women are preferable to me just not the Te women, the Ti women are. Because what I say does not have to be practical to them immediately just plausible enough it can be worked out, this is the Ne side to them and my dom side. I myself can get into a spiral but not a thinking one, a depression one.

I get depressed because I can't think. I have Ne so I have many ideas pop into my head but I cannot work out (I say calculate) or order my thoughts neatly to have everything fit where it needs to be. I guess the point is: Do men like Thinker women? Well if I am ENFP I am a Feeler male and INTP thinker women would be the balance. Carl Jung says most males and females would tend to seek since Feelers balance with Thinkers and Sensors balance with Intuitive (Extraverts with Introverts) Not saying that is how it works out always but why ask the question? The question could be asked do male thinkers like female thinkers? See what I mean? I think I met a female ENFP same type as me and I and not interested in her. I would be interested in a female INTP. male feeler interested in introverted thinker. Because they could help me think. And they would be calm and not wild like feelers are. I think a distinction needs to be made between Ti and Te because some would love Te females but its too early for me to think right now.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

I agree with you that many men prefer feeler women. However, there are plenty of men out there who like thinker women. If you find someone like that, you'll be a lot happier than adjusting yourself to men who aren't your type anyway. I mean, think about it .. if a man wants a feeler woman, is that really the type of man you would want in your life? I want someone who sees value in, and can appreciate, our type of mind.

It's possible, trust me. I've had many men be put off by my analytical mind, but every now and then I find men who are actually attracted to it. And I have so much of a better connection with them, and knowing that they appreciate me for what I am makes me feel good. I think you can find men like that too.

Studies have shown that there is generally a high correlation between IQ's of spouses. It is even higher than the correlation between IQ's of siblings.

So most men, just like most women, simply prefer people similar to themselves.

 

[HDINTP]

Studies have shown that there is generally a high correlation between IQ's of spouses. It is even higher than the correlation between IQ's of siblings.

So most men, just like most women, simply prefer people similar to themselves.

Hmm, I am doomed then Actually it's not funny

 

[elliptoid]

Does that mean there is a correlation between IQ and becoming a spouse?

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

Does that mean there is a correlation between IQ and becoming a spouse?

no

It just means people are pairing off across similar levels of intelligence. A similar thing happens within tranches of genetic quality in general. High-quality genes try to pair off with other high-quality genes and so on down the ladder. That way, low-quality genes can survive over many generations despite having lower reproductive fitness.

That's how we sustain a colossal mass of dumb people on earth

 

[Black Rose]

no

It just means people are pairing off across similar levels of intelligence. A similar thing happens within tranches of genetic quality in general. High-quality genes try to pair off with other high-quality genes and so on down the ladder. That way, low-quality genes can survive over many generations despite having lower reproductive fitness.

That's how we sustain a colossal mass of dumb people on earth

I hate doing this again but

132
121
95
86

You see the only reason I do not seem like a dumb ass on the forum is that according to tests made by white people. I read and talk and understand better than 99 percent of the population but I am slower than 84 percent of people at normal things like housework or labor jobs. Stuff requiring eye coordination. I pause too much. I take my time. I said my brother hit me for not playing the video game fast enough.

These tests tell you one thing. You have highs and lows. At least the thing is: Lots of people are categorized as uneven. I am categorized and having a Non-verbal learning disability because the high and low difference is 46 points. Plus I take 4 seizure medications. Somethin' being wrong with me.

So what does that diddly do. It makes me 113 and intellectually disabled because IQ is not one thing. Like dyslexia can disable you but you can be IQ 127. It's weird.

What happens is the seemingly smart get with the seemingly smart. The disabled smart with the disabled smart. And the nondisabled smart with the nondisabled smart. That's how the clock turns.

Brains or Love?

Assortative mating. Like attracts like. Like a guy? go talk to them. See if they like you. Remember to be open. Listen to them. Don't pressure them until they are ready. All the basics. Remember that for things the work out mutual respect and being in an equal relationship is vital. Partnerships are a balance of two hearts and two minds.

 

[elliptoid]

idk I think lower iq individuals are more likely to get married especially because there's more of them

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

idk I think lower iq individuals are more likely to get married especially because there's more of them

Maybe, but it gets complicated. One doesn't pick one's spouse randomly from the general population. It's more likely one picks from some subset like one's coworkers, and those will probably have IQs close to one's own.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

These tests tell you one thing. You have hights and lows. At least the thing is: Lots of people are categorized as uneven.

I would never in my right mind claim IQ is a sufficient measure of human intelligence. It's a statistical predictor which explains only some of the variation in outcomes, and which is useful in some specific scenarios and useless in others.

 

[0neKiwi]

I read and talk and understand better than 99 percent of the population but I am slower than 84 percent of people at normal things like housework or labor jobs. Stuff requiring eye coordination.

These percentages remind me of something...
You probably need a translator to read this... (there's an english version of the comic but it only goes up to 40 so far...)

Spoiler

Basically humans found that by using DNA, they could find out what they are good at (better at than xx% of the population)

Just do what you're best at.
-----
Anyways on the brains and love thing, you shouldn't have to change yourself for other people. The worst result is that you'll die single, but I doubt that'll happen.

 

[C.S.Hawk]

I have a dilemma I am a female INTP who's been developing their feeling side for some time now. I am now very in touch with my feelings much more than most INTPs most likely. Ive been realizing now that i want to find a strong love connection but it's much harder than I thought it would be. Granted finding love is hard regardless but I now realize what is possibly the main problem. I am a female who gives off alot of masculine energy because i'm always deeply analyzing and always in my head and the majority of straight men want feminine energy which is not being in your head and just experiencing things. Yes I can flirt and be witty when prompted but most times my mind is in philosophy mode, which keeps me entertained and its fun but at times I just really wish I was like the average women who is a ESFJ or similar to that. Its like what's the point of having " the most intelligent " personality type when I'm not even intelligent enough to attract love. I feel like in order to find love 1) I have to find another INTP which is very hard or 2) Mute some of my personality like the analyzing and thinking to become more attractive as a woman. I also know the INTP weakness is exploration because we are used to exploring things in our mind and our satisfied instead of exploring things in the real world. Do any of you INTPs struggle with this as well?

Eh... brains. Emotions are ok... I don't like them. But if I have them I don't hate them.

 

[Lurker]

Analyzing and thinking is not a personality trait – it's a mental mode.

It's clearly true that this mental mode is not conducive to exploring social life. For me, it's just an exercise of switching between this mode and a more outgoing mode which, for example is similar to the modus operandi of ESFJs.

It appears to me that many MBTI aficionados would find this somehow inauthentic – they would suggest you have to pick between either of them. Again, I say these are just modes, and you can develop them both, simultaneously. Moreover, it is possible to embed this philosophical propensity into interaction with most people. It becomes an art of how to share your genuine thoughts but doing so without boring the counterpart.

An additional problem for you, of course, is that you consider what "majority of straight men" are interested in. In that regard, yes, committing intellectual suicide and go all-in into the ESFJ persona is a good option. But presumably you are looking for love and not the fastest way to attract the average male out there. I'd say don't commit intellectual suicide, cultivate a personality which is both an authentic representation of whatever goes on in your brain and is a sociable personality. That way, people like you and me would find each other more easily.

Fantastic post.

 

[Tenacity]

I have a dilemma I am a female INTP who's been developing their feeling side for some time now. I am now very in touch with my feelings much more than most INTPs most likely. Ive been realizing now that i want to find a strong love connection but it's much harder than I thought it would be. Granted finding love is hard regardless but I now realize what is possibly the main problem. I am a female who gives off alot of masculine energy because i'm always deeply analyzing and always in my head and the majority of straight men want feminine energy which is not being in your head and just experiencing things. Yes I can flirt and be witty when prompted but most times my mind is in philosophy mode, which keeps me entertained and its fun but at times I just really wish I was like the average women who is a ESFJ or similar to that. Its like what's the point of having " the most intelligent " personality type when I'm not even intelligent enough to attract love. I feel like in order to find love 1) I have to find another INTP which is very hard or 2) Mute some of my personality like the analyzing and thinking to become more attractive as a woman. I also know the INTP weakness is exploration because we are used to exploring things in our mind and our satisfied instead of exploring things in the real world. Do any of you INTPs struggle with this as well?

Female INTP here as well and have ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS had this dilemma.

I've mostly given up on making love a huge priority in my life.

This is after, however, garnering enough social validation. I have hundreds if not thousands of prospects. But I'm putting my career first. So I spend very very little time dating and am ultra-selective.

My advice... Well, originally, it was this: Don't find love. Let it find you, and go where you can find a way to love yourself more than any partner can.

Then, I cringed at my cliche words, and my new advice is this:
Define the kind of love you think you want, then put it out there. The internet will help you attract the kind of person that appreciates YOU for you, and any date who is offended by or dislikes your intelligence or analytical brain, well, let them find someone more "conventionally attractive".

That said, I've benefited from letting myself be spontaneous about going on a date with someone different from either my own ideal or society's conventional standards of ideal. And I've so far always had fun. I remain un-attached, which (unfortunately?) leads to guys getting attached.

I think I naturally attract INTJs/INTPs/ENTPs and thus when I say what I do it isn't super off-kilter for them.

When I end up dating what I suspect are other types or stereotypically "conventionally attractive" types where I don't try to type them, they'll generally ask the questions and make fun of my intellect and call it cute, or I'll try to change the topic to be more "stereotypical" of a date night conversation.

If I had to guess, I'd guess that my "soulmate" would end up being someone very unconventional, however. It's basically a requirement that if I'm in love with you, you don't have the personality of cardboard.

Overall, you're an INTP woman. INTP women are hot. Own it and don't sell yourself short.

(Note, I can be pretty "ENTP" when standing up for things I believe in. /endrant)

 

[Tenacity]

So, since the questions was "Brains or love?":

Pick brains.

PICK BRAINS.

-Sincerely, another INTP woman

 

[Cognisant]

There's different kinds of love.

Physical love is when you get a dopamine kick just out of seeing someone, they're beautiful, they're lovely, you yearn to be with them, people dismissively call it lust but it's more like the appreciation of a work of art in that the purpose of art is to prompt an emotional response in the viewer. Instead of someone arousing consider something cute like a puppy or kitten, you immediately want to protect it, to feed it, to play with it and care for it, you've never met this thing before in your life and you would be very upset if anything bad happened to it.

Spoiler

It's entirely possible that two attractive people may find companionship on this entirely superficial level, they enjoy each other's company, they enjoy the fact that the other enjoys their company, badda-bing badda-boom happy relationship.

Emotional love is when you appreciate someone for who they are, how they make you feel by their words and actions, simply put you like them because they're nice to you. This is either something like a childhood friendship that became something more i.e. they've known each other and been a positive part of each others live for a long ass time, or they're emotionally damaged people who can't believe someone's being nice to them.

I should point out there's no rule saying people have to have the same kind of love for each other, someone could fall in love with someone else emotionally while they fall in love with them physically, as long as its reciprocated it doesn't really matter how.

Finally there's intellectual love where you love someone not for who they are but rather what they think, specifically that they're like-minded and relatable. You most often see this with people who have a niche interest like gamers and anime fans however it could also be a certain political worldview or philosophy. This kind of love is very ego based, there's a lot of satisfaction to be had when interacting with someone who agrees with you and when you value their opinion (because they mostly agree with you) when they disagree with you can be even more interesting (because you assume there's a good reason why).

The ideal partner is someone you find physically, emotionally and intellectually compelling (no shit Sherlock) and it's entirely possible to love someone in multiple ways, you might find someone physically and intellectually stimulating despite their abrasive personality or maybe they're nice and pretty but kinda stupid, or maybe they're just nice and you haven't got much going for you.

 

[Black Rose]

I was in love once. She seemed to have the same level of intelligence as me. I miss her.