# Brains or love?

#### tpaper91

##### Redshirt
I have a dilemma I am a female INTP who's been developing their feeling side for some time now. I am now very in touch with my feelings much more than most INTPs most likely. Ive been realizing now that i want to find a strong love connection but it's much harder than I thought it would be. Granted finding love is hard regardless but I now realize what is possibly the main problem. I am a female who gives off alot of masculine energy because i'm always deeply analyzing and always in my head and the majority of straight men want feminine energy which is not being in your head and just experiencing things. Yes I can flirt and be witty when prompted but most times my mind is in philosophy mode, which keeps me entertained and its fun but at times I just really wish I was like the average women who is a ESFJ or similar to that. Its like what's the point of having " the most intelligent " personality type when I'm not even intelligent enough to attract love. I feel like in order to find love 1) I have to find another INTP which is very hard or 2) Mute some of my personality like the analyzing and thinking to become more attractive as a woman. I also know the INTP weakness is exploration because we are used to exploring things in our mind and our satisfied instead of exploring things in the real world. Do any of you INTPs struggle with this as well?

#### Serac

##### A menacing post slithers
Analyzing and thinking is not a personality trait – it's a mental mode.

It's clearly true that this mental mode is not conducive to exploring social life. For me, it's just an exercise of switching between this mode and a more outgoing mode which, for example is similar to the modus operandi of ESFJs.

It appears to me that many MBTI aficionados would find this somehow inauthentic – they would suggest you have to pick between either of them. Again, I say these are just modes, and you can develop them both, simultaneously. Moreover, it is possible to embed this philosophical propensity into interaction with most people. It becomes an art of how to share your genuine thoughts but doing so without boring the counterpart.

An additional problem for you, of course, is that you consider what "majority of straight men" are interested in. In that regard, yes, committing intellectual suicide and go all-in into the ESFJ persona is a good option. But presumably you are looking for love and not the fastest way to attract the average male out there. I'd say don't commit intellectual suicide, cultivate a personality which is both an authentic representation of whatever goes on in your brain and is a sociable personality. That way, people like you and me would find each other more easily.

#### onesteptwostep

##### Think.. Be... ..buzz buzz :)
Do any of you INTPs struggle with this as well?

Nope.

I like this quote by Marcus Aurelius: “If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.”

You don't have a problem. You have a problem when you address it by providing it some analytical rationale, a framework. If you ignore it, that problem goes away on its own. (I mean in the context of what the relational, intrapersonal issue you're dealing with now).

Basically in MBTI-speak, forget your INFJ side and go chase after your inner INTJ- and I should clarify, I mean, basically, you shouldn't forgo what's "you" to actually find someone compatible. The person whom you're compatible with should be able to interact with you without you having to change your personality in any way. The problem you're perceiving is just your perception. Don't think about it too much.

#### QuickTwist

##### Spiritual "Woo"
The simple answer, with disregard to difficulty, is to meet a lot of people because this increases your chances of finding a suitable romantic interest.

However, this is not always as easily said as done. What I suggest is to instead of focussing on meeting a lot of people, to be involved with a lot of different groups of people. For that, you might want to check out http://www.meetup.com/.

Best luck to you.

BTW, I find your writing full of somewhat feminine qualities, so I am not sold that you come across as overwhelmingly masculine. Maybe it just seems that way because you write in a way I find relevant and can identify with your writing style, IDK. The characterization that I am seeing is both what you are talking about and the syntax you use. FWIW

#### tpaper91

Thank you all for your feed back there was helpful info in each and I actually have been to a couple of meet up groups from that site. I recently stopped going though because the main ones I want to attend are asking for a $75 membership fee now and I don't know if I'm ready to make that investment right now. #### Nebulous ##### fungus lord. dishwasher opossum Relatable issue. But you can be smart, philosophical, analytical, and in your own mind AND be beautiful, feminine, and attractive. It's easier than it seems. And it's actually really fun. Figure out what looks you're into fashion / makeup wise; (I'm partial to some retro styles). Here's Hedy Lamarr- Gorgeous, right? [bimgx=300]https://iqglobal.intel.com/iq-content-library/wp-content/uploads/sites/18/2016/03/Lamarr-iQ-Cover-proof-2-977x653.jpeg[/bimgx] the "spread spectrum" technology that Lamarr helped to invent would galvanize the digital communications boom, forming the technical backbone that makes cellular phones, fax machines and other wireless operations possible. Plenty of plenty of guys would LOVE an INTP wife. Someone they can be friends with, along with being their partner/spouse- they'll be thankful to find a girl who'll be able to keep up an interesting conversation, be able to think for herself and be rational, appreciate things that are typically more "masculine", etc etc etc. Don't sweat it #### QuickTwist ##### Spiritual "Woo" Thank you all for your feed back there was helpful info in each and I actually have been to a couple of meet up groups from that site. I recently stopped going though because the main ones I want to attend are asking for a$75 membership fee now and I don't know if I'm ready to make that investment right now.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying exactly. I mean to go to a lot of groups, not just one. If you go to one, you are more or less exposed to the same people or same kinds of people. The point was to challenge you to branch out of your comfort zone which is productive to making you a more cultured person which in turn makes you a more attractive person as a mate.

Plus, its the females that choose the men, not the other way around. If you are halfway decent to look at, you should have no trouble finding a man that you can pick as a partner.

#### TheManBeyond

##### Banned
Yeah I need a INTP wife actually.
Last was ISTP but she was too crazy. Se is that "don't stop" not only in bed, in everything.
Can't deal with it. If I have it on my stack I surely don't want it on my partner. I tried ESTJ but that J will eat my soul. Look. It is easy. Just jump directly to bed. Start talking to some guy u like and tell him if he wants to go for a dinner. Is that so complicated? Damn. Then suggest ur apartment.

Need a woman INTP, maybe some girl in the forum wanting to date? Some users already did it. What can go wrong. We can take planes and shit hahaha.

No but seriously I agree with quicktwist. U sound very feminine to me. If u wouldn't say u are INTP I would believe u are ISFJ they are cool women too.
Anyway what do u overanalyze, how ur thinking process won't let u find a guy? Don't get it.

#### Nebulous

##### fungus lord. dishwasher opossum
^is anyone here in ur age range tho ? Most of the girls here that I know of are a bit older, but then again I'm not even sure who's a girl or not on this forum unless people say so

-
I get along well ISFJs, INTJs once you get past the crust. ENTPs are great if you get into their heart. Or head. Or wtv.

(@tpaper91): what are you attracted to? Any MBTI types in particular? Some traits, professions, styles, appearances, etc?
& only men?
You looking for someone marriage worthy?

Etc etc.

#### onesteptwostep

##### Think.. Be... ..buzz buzz :)
Oh god, the MBTI law of 'MBTI forums eventually devolve into dating site' is happening. Goddamn TMB, your S is going to be the end of us all. ;]

(And plus, how the hell would you know if someone was feminine or not by their post on the internet? Aren't you just superimposing your subjective verbal fluency into the text?)

#### QuickTwist

##### Spiritual "Woo"
Oh god, the MBTI law of 'MBTI forums eventually devolve into dating site' is happening. Goddamn TMB, your S is going to be the end of us all. ;]

(And plus, how the hell would you know if someone was feminine or not by their post on the internet? Aren't you just superimposing your subjective verbal fluency into the text?)
I play a lot of Mafia, which requires reading into things like tone and such.

#### tpaper91

##### Redshirt
No but seriously I agree with quicktwist. U sound very feminine to me. If u wouldn't say u are INTP I would believe u are ISFJ they are cool women too.
Anyway what do u overanalyze, how ur thinking process won't let u find a guy? Don't get it.
I am very much a INTP Ive known for years after vigorously searching on the internet why I couldn't understand and communicate with most types of people and took personality tests (multiple) and figured out i was a INTP and everything became much clearer why I acted the way I did and from then ive become obsessed with figuring out other peoples types to give me an idea of their thought process, even though everyone is still an individual.....

I don't think you all understand what i mean when i say masculine energy.... Yes if you see me on most good days I look feminine "outwardly" as In I wear makeup and know about some fashions trends but i dont keep up with them. I just wear what looks most flattering to me anyways i digress.....

When I say I give off masculine energy it's more in the sense of I take things into my own hands a lot of the time because with most guys that I come across, like for an example an INFP that im really good friends with, he brings out very masculine energy in me like planning things, me always having to correct him because he's going off what his feelings are instead of facts and logic. Which in most cases it comes off as me always being "right" and him "wrong" and hurting his pridefulness which I don't purposely do. I just want to focus on the truth not about being right. I don't want to say im more intelligent then him I honestly don't even consider myself as having the typical intelligence of the stereotypical INTP like sherlock holmes... I can just think deeply or look at things from an extremely different perspective. In short INTPs can come off as cold and distant which is ok for a man, but for a woman men have always been attracted to the warm, cozy, protective, sweet, sensitive, nurturing motherly type women and Im not saying that Im none of those things they are in me a little but it doesnt come natural to me like instinct and for the most part if a man is going to choose between a INTP or ESFJ most will most likely want ESFJ type or one that is similar to that.

#### tpaper91

##### Redshirt
^is anyone here in ur age range tho ? Most of the girls here that I know of are a bit older, but then again I'm not even sure who's a girl or not on this forum unless people say so

-
I get along well ISFJs, INTJs once you get past the crust. ENTPs are great if you get into their heart. Or head. Or wtv.

(@tpaper91): what are you attracted to? Any MBTI types in particular? Some traits, professions, styles, appearances, etc?
& only men?
You looking for someone marriage worthy?

Etc etc.
I first want to be attracted to a guy that is emotionally available and of course an INTP . I just a met a ENTP the other day who has a gf but we clicked and chatted like we'd known each other for months. I like how when chatting with him he naturally pulled me out of my shell without even thinking about it If i were around people i didnt know they'd think i was extrovert chatting an ENTP. He was the first one i met in person.
INTJ's i bump heads with alot and their communication isn't always clear i find myself having to clarify alot with them. They also kind of twists facts in this weird way maybe its just me idk... I did really like one before but he saw our debating as arguments I found out later so it only went to friendship. He could never understand me the way i wanted and I was intrigued with him because he was a strange puzzle I could not figure out. and lastly ISTPs for some reason i have a extremely hard time clicking with i havent even clicked with one before to be honest. The ones i met though were online so maybe its different in person idk. Alot STJs are too rigid and traditional for me and i don't feel stimulated. Most of the other personality types i haven't experienced so i can't say for sure but i try to be open because some personality types are more developed than other so they behave differently and then i also have to take in account each person is still a individual and grew up in different enviorments etc

#### onesteptwostep

##### Think.. Be... ..buzz buzz :)
So basically, you need to find an assertive NT to match your passivity. What nationality are you? If finding romance is a priority for you, searching for adventure might be a possible step. Going overseas, for example, not using dating websites. (Ugh, I could go on a rant about how American society devolved into 'Tinder' and whatnot, but yeah.) If marriage you think is the next step, having a radical change in lifestyle might be a good idea. I mean, if you think your situation is emotionally and willfully unattainable for you at the moment.

#### Serac

##### A menacing post slithers
So basically, you need to find an assertive NT to match your passivity.
Fucking hell, dude. You're taking this reduction-of-life-to-MBTI-concepts business a little bit too far.

#### onesteptwostep

##### Think.. Be... ..buzz buzz :)
?

I'm just crystallizing what she just typed out. I'm not saying that she should- but given her experiences it seems like that's what she wants.

#### Serac

##### A menacing post slithers
?

I'm just crystallizing what she just typed out. I'm not saying that she should- but given her experiences it seems like that's what she wants.
She had one conversation with an ENTP – ergo she needs an " assertive NT to match her passivity"?

I guess induction is just not my strong suit.

This is called a Procrustean Bed, btw – chopping the legs off a person in order to fit them into a small bed.

Come to think of it, the procrustean bed is a good metaphor for MBTI in general.

#### redbaron

##### ok
Find someone you can talk to.

Everything else is transitory.

#### TheManBeyond

##### Banned
I am very much a INTP Ive known for years after vigorously searching on the internet why I couldn't understand and communicate with most types of people and took personality tests (multiple) and figured out i was a INTP and everything became much clearer why I acted the way I did and from then ive become obsessed with figuring out other peoples types to give me an idea of their thought process, even though everyone is still an individual.....

I don't think you all understand what i mean when i say masculine energy.... Yes if you see me on most good days I look feminine "outwardly" as In I wear makeup and know about some fashions trends but i dont keep up with them. I just wear what looks most flattering to me anyways i digress.....

When I say I give off masculine energy it's more in the sense of I take things into my own hands a lot of the time because with most guys that I come across, like for an example an INFP that im really good friends with, he brings out very masculine energy in me like planning things, me always having to correct him because he's going off what his feelings are instead of facts and logic. Which in most cases it comes off as me always being "right" and him "wrong" and hurting his pridefulness which I don't purposely do. I just want to focus on the truth not about being right. I don't want to say im more intelligent then him I honestly don't even consider myself as having the typical intelligence of the stereotypical INTP like sherlock holmes... I can just think deeply or look at things from an extremely different perspective. In short INTPs can come off as cold and distant which is ok for a man, but for a woman men have always been attracted to the warm, cozy, protective, sweet, sensitive, nurturing motherly type women and Im not saying that Im none of those things they are in me a little but it doesnt come natural to me like instinct and for the most part if a man is going to choose between a INTP or ESFJ most will most likely want ESFJ type or one that is similar to that.
You speak for yourself, i am not looking for a supportive caregiver almost Teresa of Calculta like.
i am looking for a cold bitch who cares about me and can get my two negative modes: mouth hyperactivity and dead inside. these are the extremes and polar opposites, everything in between is what you don't usually see in INTPf.
also most of people (including men) are full of shit.
so no, don't blame yourself, blame this fucking universe.
unless u wanna live a boring life filled by a meaningless relationship with a guy who's looking only for a sweet, warm and sensitive woman.
Nce to meet you Mother Teresa of Calcuta

#### onesteptwostep

##### Think.. Be... ..buzz buzz :)
She had one conversation with an ENTP – ergo she needs an " assertive NT to match her passivity"?

I guess induction is just not my strong suit.

This is called a Procrustean Bed, btw – chopping the legs off a person in order to fit them into a small bed.

Come to think of it, the procrustean bed is a good metaphor for MBTI in general.
Well, combined with that, and her general disconnetivity with STJs, and her inability to connect with the INTJ, her coldness towards the INFP and her 'coldness' in general (which I'm shorthanding into "passivity"). So all that data combined leads me to think that she wants an assertive NT of somesort, someone who's quirky and is able to go with the flow of her cold demeanor.

But that wasn't really the gists of my post, that was just a crystallization of what she said (again, this could be right or wrong).

#### nanook

##### a scream in a vortex
i am moderately curious about what you are like. everyone is mistyped and misunderstands typology so labels can't communicate anything. if you look into socionics intertype relationships you will see that there are more possibilities than your current stereotypes take into account.

for instance, if you are my type, then the kind of person i consider esfj is not going to expect you to be warm, he will ask you for advice and appreciate your nonjudgemental and supportive attitude and your ability to talk him out of overreacting to drama, by making him see the consequences of his moves, how other types would react to that. you will feel purposeful and he will initiate actions that will involve you. its a role that can easily be interpreted in feminine manner. its just hard to find a dual who shares your values.

#### TheManBeyond

##### Banned
^is anyone here in ur age range tho ? Most of the girls here that I know of are a bit older, but then again I'm not even sure who's a girl or not on this forum unless people say so
i was thinking of animekitty, he says he's both women and men <3

#### tpaper91

##### Redshirt
You speak for yourself, i am not looking for a supportive caregiver almost Teresa of Calculta like.
i am looking for a cold bitch who cares about me and can get my two negative modes: mouth hyperactivity and dead inside. these are the extremes and polar opposites, everything in between is what you don't usually see in INTPf.
also most of people (including men) are full of shit.
so no, don't blame yourself, blame this fucking universe.
unless u wanna live a boring life filled by a meaningless relationship with a guy who's looking only for a sweet, warm and sensitive woman.
Nce to meet you Mother Teresa of Calcuta
lol... well I've been thinking about it more and I want to be dominated by a man not the one dominating lol well for the most part anyway.... so I'm starting to be ok with the idea of losing a part of me which has always kept a distance between me and men and also woman as well. I'm willing to sacrifice some of my INTPness to gain another new part of me to better connect with the world. I'm prat icing on trying to be more in the moment then trying to be in my mind figuring out if something is logical correct or not. For my sanity, why not try it ?

#### Nor Vindsval

##### Creativeless
Here is the problem = "Stereotypes". You are a woman who analyzes everything. Does that really make you to give off "masculine energy"? No really. Although it is true that women and men work in different ways, which doesn't mean that you have to push yourself to be what you are not in order to get men's attention.

In terms of love, well, here we got another problem = The meaning of "strong love connection" what is love for you? Think about this- "Changing your own nature", is it really going to solve the problem? It's pointless "being loved" for what we are not. Probably, you struggle to find someone because a strong love connection is not easy to find for anyone. Statistically speaking, most couples live under superficial relationships, and that's the contrary point from what you've said. Is not what you are really looking for.

So, in order to find a consistent relationship, you have to be yourself. Of course there are some ways in which our own structure can be "modified" to simplify things, but taking off what is natural for you will only bring more complications. Don't always believe that everything can be totally white or black, you are smart and analytical, you don't need to turn that off or completely change it in order to get the attention you need. Use those tools to find a middle point between your feelings and thoughts.

Greetings and good luck with your mind!

#### tpaper91

##### Redshirt
Here is the problem = "Stereotypes". You are a woman who analyzes everything. Does that really make you to give off "masculine energy"? No really. Although it is true that women and men work in different ways, which doesn't mean that you have to push yourself to be what you are not in order to get men's attention.

In terms of love, well, here we got another problem = The meaning of "strong love connection" what is love for you? Think about this- "Changing your own nature", is it really going to solve the problem? It's pointless "being loved" for what we are not. Probably, you struggle to find someone because a strong love connection is not easy to find for anyone. Statistically speaking, most couples live under superficial relationships, and that's the contrary point from what you've said. Is not what you are really looking for.

So, in order to find a consistent relationship, you have to be yourself. Of course there are some ways in which our own structure can be "modified" to simplify things, but taking off what is natural for you will only bring more complications. Don't always believe that everything can be totally white or black, you are smart and analytical, you don't need to turn that off or completely change it in order to get the attention you need. Use those tools to find a middle point between your feelings and thoughts.

Greetings and good luck with your mind!

I see your point to some extent but my thing is, if you want a different result you have to change something whether its your mindset or something physical or both like if you want to lose weight you have to change your eating habits If you want more money to get a promotion at work you have up your game or change. I feel like sticking with the quote "be yourself" is a phrase i feel alot of people use to try and never grow. Because "myself" is always changing most times for the better but sometimes the worst. The P in INTP is perception I like keeping my perception open and yes I do accept as INTP myself but that doesn't mean I can't make changes and stay true to myself, I honestly feel like if i don't make a change i wont feel like im staying true to myself, since Ive always felt so strongly about being able to communicate better with the world and understand people better, that is one of my biggest goals and yes I will drive myself insane if i tried and focus on changing ever little minute detail about myself, that could be better but that's not the kind of change im talking about. Look all i know is 1+1 will always equal 2 if i don't change one of the numbers in the equation.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein

#### RunForWord

##### Developing INTP
I have a dilemma I am a female INTP who's been developing their feeling side for some time now. I am now very in touch with my feelings much more than most INTPs most likely. Ive been realizing now that i want to find a strong love connection but it's much harder than I thought it would be. Granted finding love is hard regardless but I now realize what is possibly the main problem. I am a female who gives off alot of masculine energy because i'm always deeply analyzing and always in my head and the majority of straight men want feminine energy which is not being in your head and just experiencing things. Yes I can flirt and be witty when prompted but most times my mind is in philosophy mode, which keeps me entertained and its fun but at times I just really wish I was like the average women who is a ESFJ or similar to that. Its like what's the point of having " the most intelligent " personality type when I'm not even intelligent enough to attract love. I feel like in order to find love 1) I have to find another INTP which is very hard or 2) Mute some of my personality like the analyzing and thinking to become more attractive as a woman. I also know the INTP weakness is exploration because we are used to exploring things in our mind and our satisfied instead of exploring things in the real world. Do any of you INTPs struggle with this as well?
I bet there's more types than just INTPs that could work with you. What they have been telling me is that you have to let go of the idea of immediately falling in love and finding the "right" person, even if thats what we think we want as an end goal. Because in reality 99.9% of the time it doesnt work like that so we gotta just meet a bunch of people usually before we find someone we want to be with for awhile.

#### tpaper91

##### Redshirt
I bet there's more types than just INTPs that could work with you. What they have been telling me is that you have to let go of the idea of immediately falling in love and finding the "right" person, even if thats what we think we want as an end goal. Because in reality 99.9% of the time it doesnt work like that so we gotta just meet a bunch of people usually before we find someone we want to be with for awhile.
This is true i have to get out more... ive been meeting 99% of people online but regardless of dating i do have to get out in the world more

#### Nor Vindsval

##### Creativeless
I totally agree that you have to modify the gear of structure to see the "real" change, but what I meant is that analyzing is way big part of Ti function, which is INTPs dominant function. This means it is always there or mostly present. So by turning it off, you should force yourself to replace what is missing there.

I am also a female INTP, so I can likely understand what you are trying to say. Althought you should be more careful with stereotipical points like "a female cannot be analylitcal and feminine at the same time" I have many male friends who are tired of the "average women" that would be ESFJ. There is not contradictory paralelism between being analytical or femenine.

Best wishes!

#### Turnevies

##### Active Member
In all seriousness and purely objectively speaking, you seem very attractive and I certainly would like to meet you if there were not more than 4000 mi between us.

#### RunForWord

##### Developing INTP
Guy makes post about it being hard to find love = good advice and some roasting. Girl makes post about it being hard to find love = good advice and multiple guys wanting to give her a chance. wtf girls.. step your game up

#### Circle

##### Redshirt
I completely agree with what your saying , ive always wanted to experience "love" with a "soulmate" but have never been able to find someone in person that could keep up with me instead they end up feeling intimidated . I am currently married and we have developed a codependency with all the superficial things . Unfortunatley he is now gotten into the mindset that i am either attacking his intelligence or simply patronising him ,whenever i want to discuss anything be it literal or figurative . So if i was you i wouldnt give up searching for someone that you can be yourself with or like me you will find your self doing most of the compromising simply because of the fact that after a thorough analysis of your relationship the only answer is seperation or compromise . Oh how i wish i could analyze things with him

#### tpaper91

##### Redshirt
I completely agree with what your saying , ive always wanted to experience "love" with a "soulmate" but have never been able to find someone in person that could keep up with me instead they end up feeling intimidated . I am currently married and we have developed a codependency with all the superficial things . Unfortunatley he is now gotten into the mindset that i am either attacking his intelligence or simply patronising him ,whenever i want to discuss anything be it literal or figurative . So if i was you i wouldnt give up searching for someone that you can be yourself with or like me you will find your self doing most of the compromising simply because of the fact that after a thorough analysis of your relationship the only answer is seperation or compromise . Oh how i wish i could analyze things with him

#### tpaper91

##### Redshirt
To be honest I think most INTP females will most likely be more intelligent than their male partners and by that i mean they will most likely be able to see things in a whole new fresh perspective and that is honestly one of the things that the guy will find most attractive about you. Just for clarification sake i am a pretty dump INTP I am not book smart at all I just memorized my way through school anywhere i found a short cut around the system i took it.

The thing is though most females want a partner who is "smarter" than them. I honestly don't know why but we just do. and on the other hand males do not seek out for partners, woman who are "smarter" than them. Just like males don't seek out purposely a women who has a successful career and money, unless hes a gold digger, Not saying men can't fall in love with rich successful intelligent women, they just don't normally seek them out because it's intimidating and whether we want to admit or not for whatever reasons men have this natural instinct to want to take care and protect. So if a woman appears to be too smart and too successful that doesn't appeal to a guy because he will feel like you dont need him. Us women don't need men, men actually need us to want to need them and thats how they feel more "manly" by being needed. Eve was created for adam because he was lonely. Lol i probably just opened a can of worms :0

#### tpaper91

##### Redshirt
In all seriousness and purely objectively speaking, you seem very attractive and I certainly would like to meet you if there were not more than 4000 mi between us.

aw gee thanks

#### QuickTwist

##### Spiritual "Woo"
Here is the problem = "Stereotypes". You are a woman who analyzes everything. Does that really make you to give off "masculine energy"? No really. Although it is true that women and men work in different ways, which doesn't mean that you have to push yourself to be what you are not in order to get men's attention.

In terms of love, well, here we got another problem = The meaning of "strong love connection" what is love for you? Think about this- "Changing your own nature", is it really going to solve the problem? It's pointless "being loved" for what we are not. Probably, you struggle to find someone because a strong love connection is not easy to find for anyone. Statistically speaking, most couples live under superficial relationships, and that's the contrary point from what you've said. Is not what you are really looking for.

So, in order to find a consistent relationship, you have to be yourself. Of course there are some ways in which our own structure can be "modified" to simplify things, but taking off what is natural for you will only bring more complications. Don't always believe that everything can be totally white or black, you are smart and analytical, you don't need to turn that off or completely change it in order to get the attention you need. Use those tools to find a middle point between your feelings and thoughts.

Greetings and good luck with your mind!
I read this post because I hadn't seen you post before to the best of my knowledge (at least I didn't recognise the avatar).

I think you make an excellent point and I think it works in tandem with my point quite well. Superficial relationships are very very pointless. I can not think of too many other things when it comes to dealing with other people that could be worse than being in a relationship with someone you cannot be yourself.

I think the reason why people "fake" (I know this is a strong word) who they are in a relationship with is because they don't think their actual self is worthy of the same love. They still crave a connection and they are not thinking it through really because dealing with people is largely an intuitive impulsive thing. Our sex drives in the US and other 1st world countries like the UK are completely fucked up and we let it rule our lives. Not to say this is different in 2nd and 3rd world countries, its just that I would naturally expect 1st world countries to have a better grasp of "relationships" as a whole, but we are still largely clueless of such things. What nanook talks about frequently with materialism is a good excuse for this. I think what every person needs to do if they want to be in an intimate relationship is to know what kind of person they want to be matched with rather than just going "that guy looks cute, I wonder if I can get his attention".

#### QuickTwist

##### Spiritual "Woo"
I am very much a INTP Ive known for years after vigorously searching on the internet why I couldn't understand and communicate with most types of people and took personality tests (multiple) and figured out i was a INTP and everything became much clearer why I acted the way I did and from then ive become obsessed with figuring out other peoples types to give me an idea of their thought process, even though everyone is still an individual.....

I don't think you all understand what i mean when i say masculine energy.... Yes if you see me on most good days I look feminine "outwardly" as In I wear makeup and know about some fashions trends but i dont keep up with them. I just wear what looks most flattering to me anyways i digress.....

When I say I give off masculine energy it's more in the sense of I take things into my own hands a lot of the time because with most guys that I come across, like for an example an INFP that im really good friends with, he brings out very masculine energy in me like planning things, me always having to correct him because he's going off what his feelings are instead of facts and logic. Which in most cases it comes off as me always being "right" and him "wrong" and hurting his pridefulness which I don't purposely do. I just want to focus on the truth not about being right. I don't want to say im more intelligent then him I honestly don't even consider myself as having the typical intelligence of the stereotypical INTP like sherlock holmes... I can just think deeply or look at things from an extremely different perspective. In short INTPs can come off as cold and distant which is ok for a man, but for a woman men have always been attracted to the warm, cozy, protective, sweet, sensitive, nurturing motherly type women and Im not saying that Im none of those things they are in me a little but it doesnt come natural to me like instinct and for the most part if a man is going to choose between a INTP or ESFJ most will most likely want ESFJ type or one that is similar to that.
FWIW you sound delightful. It would be amazing to have a lady friend to be able to point out when I am not being logical. I actually find that an attractive trait in a person.

You should consider viewing people as complex individuals; oversimplification is a scourge driven by ignorance.

While there's nothing wrong with trying to stack the romantic odds in your favor; your perspective, to me, seems heavily warped by biased external influences. It's not the willful/egotistic warpedness of so many others here, but I think you underestimate just how much you are a product of your circumstances and narrow purview. So before you go off and lobotomize yourself I suggest you simply observe the world around you. Take your time. Figure out what you really want. If what you want isn't out there? Don't settle, don't be afraid, and don't bow to social expectation. If you think you can suppress your nature for the sake of a relationship... well that's a time bomb and you're setting yourself up for future misery.

I, of course, have a limited anecdotal perspective; just like you. Your stance, I find incomprehensible. I cannot imagine why someone would want a long term monogamous partner that does not understand them on a fundamental level. If I thought as you, that a good relationship with a man hinges on ceding autonomy and personality, well I'd sooner nail my own thumbs to the ceiling than get involved with one.

btw, you cite your mom's criticism of your dad as the core issue of their relationship and as inherently masculine behavoir, but... well 'nagging' is a stereotypically feminine trait. (Though I personally think it's unisex.) I don't really follow your logic and how for you it's crucial evidence that you need to suppress your nature and be more 'feminine' to find love. Instead of forcing femininity and submission, consider seeking a relationship with a healthy, mutually beneficial power dynamic and open lines of communication.

#### tpaper91

##### Redshirt
You should consider viewing people as complex individuals; oversimplification is a scourge driven by ignorance.

While there's nothing wrong with trying to stack the romantic odds in your favor; your perspective, to me, seems heavily warped by biased external influences. It's not the willful/egotistic warpedness of so many others here, but I think you underestimate just how much you are a product of your circumstances and narrow purview. So before you go off and lobotomize yourself I suggest you simply observe the world around you. Take your time. Figure out what you really want. If what you want isn't out there? Don't settle, don't be afraid, and don't bow to social expectation. If you think you can suppress your nature for the sake of a relationship... well that's a time bomb and you're setting yourself up for future misery.

I, of course, have a limited anecdotal perspective; just like you. Your stance, I find incomprehensible. I cannot imagine why someone would want a long term monogamous partner that does not understand them on a fundamental level. If I thought as you, that a good relationship with a man hinges on ceding autonomy and personality, well I'd sooner nail my own thumbs to the ceiling than get involved with one.

btw, you cite your mom's criticism of your dad as the core issue of their relationship and as inherently masculine behavoir, but... well 'nagging' is a stereotypically feminine trait. (Though I personally think it's unisex.) I don't really follow your logic and how for you it's crucial evidence that you need to suppress your nature and be more 'feminine' to find love. Instead of forcing femininity and submission, consider seeking a relationship with a healthy, mutually beneficial power dynamic and open lines of communication.
When I'm speaking of man and woman I'm speaking of society terms and natural instinct that doesn't mean that every single person is like that majority are . whether you or I disagree with it it's the reality so I do have to take that into consideration and me working on myself and not always pointing out things that are wrong and not wanting to be so critical isn't a bad thing. Again like I said it isn't just for men it's for all people. I'm exploring anther side of me self control and timing when over analyzing things with people and practicing being more in the moment. I rather choose my battles more wisely in the future. I rather not put myself in a box. The more people I people I hang with even if it doesn't go much of anywhere I learn more about myself and certain things that can hinder me getting closer to someone. Also being submissive doesn't mean being weak it's actually the opposite .it takes strength for you to give submissiveness to someone.... Even in a dom and sub relationship but true submissive is in the heart.

#### Nebulous

##### fungus lord. dishwasher opossum
To be honest I think most INTP females will most likely be more intelligent than their male partners and by that i mean they will most likely be able to see things in a whole new fresh perspective and that is honestly one of the things that the guy will find most attractive about you.
Based on the experience and observations I've had of guys, they tend to hate it when a girl, or anyone for that matter, is 'smarter' than them. You beat them in a video game, they'll have their Man Ego™ fcked and they'll go sulk, etc.
I really don't know though. There must be some guys who can appreciate a girl who's smarter than them.

I'm a girl, and I find other girls just soo much easier to deal with than men. Way less miscommunications, you can read each other so much more clearly, there's no weird clash of energy, etc. Guys are frustrating. Imo.

The thing is though most females want a partner who is "smarter" than them. I honestly don't know why but we just do. and on the other hand males do not seek out for partners, woman who are "smarter" than them. Just like males don't seek out purposely a women who has a successful career and money, unless hes a gold digger, Not saying men can't fall in love with rich successful intelligent women, they just don't normally seek them out because it's intimidating and whether we want to admit or not for whatever reasons men have this natural instinct to want to take care and protect. So if a woman appears to be too smart and too successful that doesn't appeal to a guy because he will feel like you dont need him. Us women don't need men, men actually need us to want to need them and thats how they feel more "manly" by being needed. Eve was created for adam because he was lonely. Lol i probably just opened a can of worms :0
Don't worry bout the worms.

#### redbaron

##### ok
The question is whether men are scared of smart women because they're ingrained with the idea that they need to be smarter/better than women or if it's "natural". I personally think it's a bunch of bullshit ingrained by thousands of years of religious corruption and that if people were capable of freeing themselves from the shitty indoctrination that is our current social trends, then we wouldn't have so many insecure men who're intimidated by women with brains.

:^)

While I do think there's real differences between men and women I think you're taking them much further than is actually warranted and giving way more credence to arbitrary gender roles than actually exists biologically.

#### majohnso

##### Member
as i am learning to also engage my Fe side a bit more, i have started to appreciate it. however as others have indicated, it would be unwise for it to be the driver.

i think you should put yourself into circles where similar minds may meet, and not change who you are, as ultimately that will lead to more frustration.

i met my partner (INFJ) via a meetup event, and i know others who have done similar, and would recommend that. i am sure there are many avenues where you can find a likeminded sole.

i have read that often waiting as we learn more about ourselves is better than jumping into relationships, as we learn more about who we are, we can pick better partners that fit our needs, and so i would say, you trust that you know who you are, and dont dillute that

good luck to you

#### Polaris

False dichotomy -> does not compute -> cognitive breakdown -> post malfunction

When I'm speaking of man and woman I'm speaking of society terms and natural instinct that doesn't mean that every single person is like that majority are . whether you or I disagree with it it's the reality so I do have to take that into consideration and me working on myself and not always pointing out things that are wrong and not wanting to be so critical isn't a bad thing. Again like I said it isn't just for men it's for all people. I'm exploring anther side of me self control and timing when over analyzing things with people and practicing being more in the moment. I rather choose my battles more wisely in the future. I rather not put myself in a box. The more people I people I hang with even if it doesn't go much of anywhere I learn more about myself and certain things that can hinder me getting closer to someone. Also being submissive doesn't mean being weak it's actually the opposite .it takes strength for you to give submissiveness to someone.... Even in a dom and sub relationship but true submissive is in the heart.
hey, you're into what you're into and that's all good. Though I still reject what you see as 'truth of reality' and your false dichotomy (I didn't want to use that term, but polaris did it first!).

but now I don't get why you framed it like you're somehow internally conflicted, because this suggests that you're not... like at all. If you're not torn and want to be this way, then what's the problem?

#### RunForWord

##### Developing INTP
Us women don't need men, men actually need us to want to need them and thats how they feel more "manly" by being needed. Eve was created for adam because he was lonely. Lol i probably just opened a can of worms :0
Yea so I'm sure this whole thread is pointless then because you are ok with never finding a guy you like. When humans colonize mars I hope you are looking forward to having fun on the surface of the planet while us men are strapped down underground in bunkers getting our balls drained of jizz unvoluntarily; But don't worry our purpose will be fulfilled by knowing that you need our jizz and we are supplying it.

#### Nor Vindsval

##### Creativeless
I think the reason why people "fake" (I know this is a strong word) who they are in a relationship with is because they don't think their actual self is worthy of the same love. They still crave a connection and they are not thinking it through really because dealing with people is largely an intuitive impulsive thing. Our sex drives in the US and other 1st world countries like the UK are completely fucked up and we let it rule our lives. Not to say this is different in 2nd and 3rd world countries, its just that I would naturally expect 1st world countries to have a better grasp of "relationships" as a whole, but we are still largely clueless of such things. What nanook talks about frequently with materialism is a good excuse for this. I think what every person needs to do if they want to be in an intimate relationship is to know what kind of person they want to be matched with rather than just going "that guy looks cute, I wonder if I can get his attention".
It's remarkable what you are saying, specially with the last sentence. We tend to complain about these "superficial" relationships but in fact, we don't look beyond "a pretty face". So, inevitably we get to the conclusion that we have to change something internally, but actually it would be easier, if we only were open to know people further than just our judgment on the "first physical impression"

#### tpaper91

##### Redshirt
hey, you're into what you're into and that's all good. Though I still reject what you see as 'truth of reality' and your false dichotomy (I didn't want to use that term, but polaris did it first!).

but now I don't get why you framed it like you're somehow internally conflicted, because this suggests that you're not... like at all. If you're not torn and want to be this way, then what's the problem?
I actually was conflicted but the more I kept talking about it and thinking about. The more I discussed it the more I convinced myself

#### tpaper91

##### Redshirt
Yea so I'm sure this whole thread is pointless then because you are ok with never finding a guy you like. When humans colonize mars I hope you are looking forward to having fun on the surface of the planet while us men are strapped down underground in bunkers getting our balls drained of jizz unvoluntarily; But don't worry our purpose will be fulfilled by knowing that you need our jizz and we are supplying it.
Now that I think about it that came out a little wrong and felt one sided both sexes need each other we just play different roles

#### tpaper91

##### Redshirt
I feel like at this point everybody on this thread is thinking I'm changing my natural self to be with a guy. I will always be a INTP at heart I will always be analyzer in my head that is just the way my brain works some people hate and very few love it. I honestly just want to bring out more of my feminine side that's been pushed down a lot because after all automatically being born a woman does not make you feminme and being born a man does not always make you masculine.

I just think I want to change the way I use my over analizying especially in relationships. I will still have my uniqueness about the way my mind works no one can take that away from me. I now just want to use my analytic nature for getting closer to people and my creative ideas not mainly using to always correct people or win arguments. So I guess I'm switching my focus

#### Serac

##### A menacing post slithers
Us women don't need men, men actually need us to want to need them and thats how they feel more "manly" by being needed
Is this why you women never get clingy or overly dramatic about the whole thing? Ahh all those silly little men trying to be "manly".

Girl, stop all this theorizing and go make me a sandwich.

#### QuickTwist

##### Spiritual "Woo"
It's remarkable what you are saying, specially with the last sentence. We tend to complain about these "superficial" relationships but in fact, we don't look beyond "a pretty face". So, inevitably we get to the conclusion that we have to change something internally, but actually it would be easier, if we only were open to know people further than just our judgment on the "first physical impression"
Yes. I actually should not know the thing you quoted, but I happen to be a pretty open person. I am ofc male and a heterosexual one at that. What I wrote in the previous post I know because I came across enough info to get a glimmer of how a woman's mind works.

The human psyche (and to a greater degree other animals' instincts) functions almost completely based on first impression. Its what gives us a framework for how we are going to view an object or subject going forward. It has a very strong hold on how we come to know the world. But for those who are more open as a trait, we tend to deliberate a little more, or we would, but instead we take shortcuts to understanding the first impression we get from something. OFC our brains have evolved to inch closer and closer toward more efficient means of understanding things. There is also a generational standpoint where SOME knowledge gets passed down to the offspring. The rest is based on experience. All in all, we are made to judge things very quickly because it is an immensely powerful survival technique. It then becomes a matter of skill to develop awareness of our surroundings and self to paint a more elaborate and detailed painting. These paintings are then transcended into words that then takes on meaning in an identifiable way and creates a bridge between the conscious and subconscious mind.