Boston bombing- American, Jihadist group, or other?

[C.Hecker88]

Earlier today a teacher of mine gave out a huge lecture on why the Boston Bombing could only have been planned and carried out by a Jihadist group. I would like some reasons why this is flawed/wrong, and I would also like your opinions.

Please help me out.

 

[Hawkeye]

By this logic - all bombers are Jihadist (including bomberman O.o ).

 

[Absurdity]

Reasons: There is no publicly-available evidence at this point to seriously suggest that.

People on my facebook were saying the same shit literally moments after the blast. Blaming "Arab terrorists." Their stupidity was so nauseating I deactivated my account.

When people react to events like this it is largely through emotions. Blaming "Arabs," "Jihadis," or any other crude word for adherents to Islam (most of whom actually hail from outside of the Arabian Peninsula) is a knee-jerk response that most people have been conditioned to give via TV shows (24) movies (Zero Dark Thirty, United 93, etc) and video games (CoD, C&C Generals).

Blaming right-wing extremists is another knee-jerk response that is less widely conditioned but it is still there.

Any speculation at this point relies on tired stereotypes and little clear-headed reasoning.

 

[Chad]

Domestic Terrorist way more prevalent in the U.S. Jihadists.

Oklahoma City Bombing

Una bomber

the list goes on and on.

So far the jihadist have on one attack on U.S.soil and that attack was planed out much better with much more devastating results.

It take a lot of effort and planing to pull off an attack form that distance. Therefore they effect and get much larger payoffs for there effort. I am sure they would be very disappointed for there effort if this was them. Also I would expect a greater attack then 9/11 if it was Alcida mostly because the last attack ended up causing them more problems then it was worse.

They might want revenge but setting a bomb and only killing three people at some sporting event just wouldn't be worth it.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Earlier today a teacher of mine gave out a huge lecture on why the Boston Bombing could only have been planned and carried out by a Jihadist group. I would like some reasons why this is flawed/wrong, and I would also like your opinions.

Please help me out.

I wonder why they're overcompensating when there is little if any evidence supporting them? I'd be very motivated to hold them to it (school board) if their assertion turns out to be false (if not immediately). It's entirely too early and judgmental.

The other thread has a lot of reasons already, the most notable of which is that no group has yet claimed responsibility. http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=16151

Otherwise if the bombings are correlated with the ricin-laced letters being mailed to Washington DC, then there is additional historical precedent that brings other groups into the spotlight:

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/17/ricin_the_kgb_and_white_supremacists_favorite_toxin/

Overall this reeks of domestic terrorism.

 

[C.Hecker88]

I wonder why they're overcompensating when there is little if any evidence supporting them? I'd be very motivated to hold them to it (school board) if their assertion turns out to be false (if not immediately). It's entirely too early and judgmental.

The other thread has a lot of reasons already, the most notable of which is that no group has yet claimed responsibility. http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=16151

Otherwise if the bombings are correlated with the ricin-laced letters being mailed to Washington DC, then there is additional historical precedent that brings other groups into the spotlight:

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/17/ricin_the_kgb_and_white_supremacists_favorite_toxin/

Overall this reeks of domestic terrorism.

I wouldn't want this teacher getting in any sort of trouble. She may be a bit off on some issues, but she's one of the coolest people I've ever met.

 

[GodOfOrder]

I'm waiting for real reports, but most of the people I have heard talking think it was vaguely reminiscent of this...

Spoiler

forgive me if I offended you

 

[Synthetix]

The left wing media is desperately hoping it was a right wing extremist, they have the story ready to go.
The right wing media is desperately hoping it was a jihhadist, they have the story ready to go.

Speculation is pointless.

 

[Proletar]

Your teacher is a narrow-minded bigot. He/she should be fired. Consult your principle.

 

[therunningstick]

The peculiar thing about incidents such as these is that although the probability of mass shootings and mass bombings is astronomically small, the American public is more inclined to think that the probability is much higher. Thus they feel the need to tighten their sense of security, and what better way than to blame it on those damn jihadists trying to overthrow our government? To be brutally honest, the portion of the Muslim community that is terrorist is minuscule, yet to many every man they see at the airport wearing a turban is a flight risk. Generally the American public likes to overblow the frequency of these incidents. They try to connect the dots in ways that don't even make sense. But to them it does. Chances are it's just some angry white guy pissed off at the government. Looking at the past, the probability is higher that it is a pissed off white guy because there has only been one known major mass murder on the part of Muslim jihadists--9/11. It only happened once, yet it has come characterize an era.

Sorry for being long winded.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

the American public is more inclined to think that the probability is much higher.

Fear breeds profit.

 

[Double_V]

Well, let's see. Good Morning America already suggested The Right Wing and Al Sharpton is totally indignant that "a brown skinned" person is being looked for. As usual Wolf Blitzer speculates but knows nothing.

My thought is the only opinions I have is based on lack of chatter this is one person or a very small group. The method they used suggests they were using methods used in Afghanistan - which would be terribly effective on runners. If I had to guess this is someone in the US with arab sympathies.

On the whole I find myself feeling quite ho hum about this. After 9/11, all the standard foreign hate and self hatred, it's going to be pretty hard to shock/get our attention. We should just Carry On.

Edit: And the teacher of the OP is a goof.

 

[C.Hecker88]

Well, let's see. Good Morning America already suggested The Right Wing and Al Sharton is totally indignant that "a brown skinned" person is being looked for. As usual Wolf Blitzer speculates but knows nothing.

My thought is the only opinions I have is based on lack of chatter this is one person or a very small group. The method they used suggests they were using methods used in Afghanistan - which would be terribly effective on runners. If I had to guess this is someone in the US with arab sympathies.

On the whole I find myself feeling quite ho hum about this. After 9/11, all the standard foreign hate and self hatred, it's going to be pretty hard to shock/get our attention. We should just Carry On.

Edit: And the teacher of the OP is a goof.

She is normally a very intelligent person, she is just a bit of a militarian in some issues (such as this one). She told us beforehand that she was just giving her own opinion, and that we should come to our own on our own.

She may have just been trying to start a debate with a provocative thesis. This would not be the first time.

 

[Double_V]

She is normally a very intelligent person, she is just a bit of a militarian in some issues (such as this one). She told us beforehand that she was just giving her own opinion, and that we should come to our own on our own.

Teachers are often agenda driven on their beliefs, paericularly political. Take that portion of them with a grain of salt. Ocassionally one like that can be argued with without penalizing the student, but with some it's better to give them what they want and just move on.

 

[C.Hecker88]

This was her defense of the info provided here:

Domestic terror has always in the past been aimed at the FBI, ATF etc. The Murrow building in Oklahoma City hit by McVIEGH was FBI headquarters. Boston is the home of the Tea Party and the Boston Marathon is a typically American target that a Jihadist would want to hit. My guess is that it will be a Pakistani/ American or Yemeni/American.... a naturalized citizen or first generation American from the Middle East. While there are plenty of crazy radical, home grown American capable of "domestic terrorism," they, I believe, would strike a target that represents government authority.
There have been over 100 jihadist attacks that have been thwarted since 9/11.

Help?

 

[Absurdity]

Help?

Meaningless speculation from a pattern-seeking ape. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE.

 

[Chad]

Were did she get her information from. I haven't heard anything about 100 Jihadist attacks. Since 9/11.

Also I if this is a tax issue with giving the date it seems likely then Boston just happens to be a good spot.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

She told us beforehand that she was just giving her own opinion, and that we should come to our own on our own.

She may have just been trying to start a debate with a provocative thesis. This would not be the first time.

Including this in the OP would have helped. Just sayin'.

Not it appears she's doing exactly the right thing...

 

[C.Hecker88]

Including this in the OP would have helped. Just sayin'.

Not it appears she's doing exactly the right thing...

It didn't occur to me to include it. I wasn't expecting you people's attack of her,and I was only hoping for debate material.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

It didn't occur to me to include it. I wasn't expecting you people's attack of her,and I was only hoping for debate material.

Meh. It's a side effect of me being involved in other forums. No biggie.

 

[Synthetix]

Pressure cookers have been used by cells in the middle east. However, this may not indicate much since the information is out there and anyone in any country could produce a pressure cooker bomb. I read a 2011 article about some old guys in Atlanta who planned on using one and had it set up. They weren't jihhadists, just old pissed off dudes.

People say tax day and patriots day may indicate some sort of motive that would link the event to this group or that group. Again, hard to point fingers.


Since none of us are Boston PD, DHS or FBI etc and aren't working the case, we can only assume based on what we hear from the media.


If I was to make a wild guess, maybe a lone wolf wanting to stir up mayhem, but I can't say.

 

[C.Hecker88]

I spent the better part of my last 10 years in the military in Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), which is the military equivalent of the CIA. The over 100 terror attacks include plots potentially against western targets thwarted, sometimes in the planning stage by arresting or killing the plotters at early stages. My point, jihadist attacks (or attempts) are more prevalent that domestic terror events; and while the proverbial jury is still out, the Boston Marathon better fits the profile of Islamists vice domestic terrorists. Now the ricin sent through the mail feels more like domestic that Islamists, but attacking congressmen etc can fit both categories.

Halp?

 

[Absurdity]

The man who mailed the ricin is from Mississippi.

 

[C.Hecker88]

I ended the debate. I admitted defeat. We'll see who wins in the long run, eh?

 

[C.Hecker88]

For your entertainment:

" I am excited that you are interested enough to research and think it out. You may be right. The ricin feels domestic to me and Boston feels like Islamists. Boston is so like the IEDs in Iraq and Afghanistan; that still doesn't mean that it couldn't be domestic. We'll know when the FBI announces the results of their investigation. BTW the "shot heard round the world (Lexington and Concord) was 19 April, the anniversary of the OK City bombing is also 19 April, Patriots Day 26 April, Confederate Memorial Day, 26 April, Buddha's Birthday, 8 April........who knows. If domestic terrorists would just stick to IRS facilities, abortion clinics or federal buildings it would be easier."

Her last point.

 

[Solitaire U.]

40 years ago it would have been blamed on Communists.

Jihad today, something more fashionable tomorrow.

But what's the point of arguing with a society that is so deep in denial about the fact that the majority of their enemies are within?

You're probably powerless to convince your teacher otherwise, even if you could prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt, so you may as well let hir have hir little Jihad terrorists. It is after all hir forum.

Not to mention that you don't know if s/he's right or wrong. You'd just be throwing up your own assumptions against hirs atm. What's the point?

 

[IdeasNotTheProblem]

If I were to speculate without any evidence, I would think it far more likely to be some whacked out gun enthusiast, rather than jihadist. Just because it was patriots day, the 26th mile dedicated to Newtown victims and the upcoming gun law vote in Washington. I'd also guess that by using homemade bombs the killer was trying to make a point that banning guns or large magazines won't stop someone with intent from killing many people.

The battle of Lexington and Concord(patriot's day) was fought because the British army was on their way to take away the militia's guns. That's when Revere rode out to warn everybody.

With how absurd and irresponsible the media is with tragedies these days, it's hard to know what to think about this stuff. Maybe some kid tweeted it was a jihadist and 5 major networks broadcasted the breaking news while your teach happened to be watching.

 

[therunningstick]

The media loves this kind of stuff because it generates so many viewers. The problem is that they capitalize on every bit of violence, and they try to draw in as many viewers as possible. This tends to lead to overblowing every single story that involves children, bombings, mass murder, etc. Why? Because the American public loves it, not so much in the sense that it makes them happy but in that they will watch it, cry a few tears, and then move on. In order to make the story more newsworthy, then what better than adding some jihadist terrorists in the mix? Because everyone knows that's bound to attract attention, even if it is patently false.

 

[Jennywocky]

"Boston feels like Islamists..."? *facepalm*

I haven't really read much about the bombings. At this point, it's all speculation, and CNN couldn't even figure out whether there was a suspect or not -- coverage has been pretty wild.

yes, the style of bomb has been used overseas because it's something that someone can make at home. But with the Internet nowadays, that really means nothing.

They released two pics this evening of "people of interest" to the American public, so I expect shortly someone will at least turn one or two of those guys in and the investigation will proceed. I had trouble recognizing nationality in the pictures I saw, and race isn't necessarily nationality anyway.

Pretty much, though, anyone in the news and especially in the mainstream public just seems to be swinging at whatever balls are in the air, regardless of how accurate they happen to be. It pretty much sucks to be a Muslim in this country nowadays.

 

[walfin]

I'm surprised nobody has suggested North Korea.

The bomb was a huge epic fail at killing people. Like everything else North Korea does.

 

[therunningstick]

I'm surprised nobody has suggested North Korea.

The bomb was a huge epic fail at killing people. Like everything else North Korea does.

because if north korea had done it then Kim Jong Eun and his press would be bragging that they had successfully infiltrated the US. believe me, if it were north korea we would know it was north korea.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I'm surprised nobody has suggested North Korea.

The bomb was a huge epic fail at killing people. Like everything else North Korea does.

because if north korea had done it then Kim Jong Eun and his press would be bragging that they had successfully infiltrated the US. believe me, if it were north korea we would know it was north korea.

I'd have suggested North Korea had the perps accidentally detonated themselves...

 

[Double_V]

I'm surprised nobody has suggested North Korea.

The bomb was a huge epic fail at killing people. Like everything else North Korea does.

It was too similar to what's been taught/used in the arab world.

It also occured to me that the bombs 'failure' could be by design. Literally, it hacked 'Americans' off at the knees.

 

[cheese]

^Yeah. Literally brought Americans to their knees.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Latest news: One dead, the other in hiding. The suspects are brothers, nationality Chechnyan, apparently spent time training in Turkey. Possibly known terrorists.

http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Who were the two who voted "other"?

 

[walfin]

My vote is secret!

Spoiler

I voted other. I think I was right in some sense though, since it seems it was the Chechens.[/quote]

 

[Ziast]

I voted other. Figured it was a group that sympathized with the Muslim extremists but not nessisarily connected to them.

 

[Hawkeye]

So basically, those who voted American were correct

 

[Double_V]

So basically, those who voted American were correct

No. Basically I was correct. ( & I didn't vote because there was not selection that reflected it).

If I had to guess this is someone in the US with arab sympathies.

These were not 'Americans'. These were foreigners in the USA, with arab sympathies and angry over Afghanistan. One had recently become a citizen, tho the other hadn't. The one who hadn't had left the US for an extended time. To get basic bomb training, no doubt.

The US has to be more careful as to whom we will accept, let come and go and how often, and who we offer give education to.

 

[Starswirl]

No. Basically I was correct. ( & I didn't vote because there was not selection that reflected it).



These were not 'Americans'. These were foreigners in the USA, with arab sympathies and angry over Afghanistan. One had recently become a citizen, tho the other hadn't. The one who hadn't had left the US for an extended time. To get basic bomb training, no doubt.

The US has to be more careful as to whom we will accept, let come and go and how often, and who we offer give education to.

"Arab sympathies"? How are Chechen jihadists "Arab sympathizers?

On other forums I was attacked for my claim that, based on the attack target and what type of bomb appeared to be used, Boston was bombed by grassroots jihadists inspired by al-Qaeda. Now it turns out I was right...

This case is particularly interesting. It isn't confirmed that they are jihadists, but it seems like it. If they are, then it no longer means that we can at least say "All jihadists will have dark skin." These Chechens were Caucasian (in both meanings of the term); they didn't even have beards. I'd say the attack was a success; now paranoid people will be afraid of everyone with a foreign accent, regardless of skin tone.

 

[Wolf18]

I don't think they were Jihadists. Apparently, the older brother had some, er, issues and no one was too shocked about him. It is the other brother who seems to be a mystery. Happy at school, no "issues," never professed any hatred for the US. I wouldn't be shocked if it turned out his older brother dragged him into it, or at least manipulated him a bit.

@Starswirl, what do you think their intentions were? I'm glad I don't have Hecker's teacher.

SW

 

[C.Hecker88]

Dammit, you guys. Looks like we were wrong.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Dammit, you guys. Looks like we were wrong.

I thought we were both right. A domestic jihadist?

 

[Chad]

I thought we were both right. A domestic jihadist?

Jihadist would assume that they wanted to kill people because those people were not Muslim. From what I hear they were protesting the Afghanistan War. They were not focused on killing only none Muslims but Americans in general.

Some may argue that they are Jihadist just because they are Muslim and are against the killing of Muslims in Afghanistan but this is not what Jihad is about. Therefore they would best be labeled as domestic terrorist who were protesting a War. This is quite weird though give the fact that the war is basically over but you can't reason with Crazy.

 

[C.Hecker88]

Jihadist would assume that they wanted to kill people because those people were not Muslim. From what I hear they were protesting the Afghanistan War. They were not focused on killing only none Muslims but Americans in general.

Some may argue that they are Jihadist just because they are Muslim and are against the killing of Muslims in Afghanistan but this is not what Jihad is about. Therefore they would best be labeled as domestic terrorist who were protesting a War. This is quite weird though give the fact that the war is basically over but you can't reason with Crazy.

Are you certain about this? It has a very god point to it, if it's valid.

 

[Chad]

Are you certain about this? It has a very god point to it, if it's valid.

This is what I have heard the motive was. I could be wrong I haven't heard anything in a few days.

 

[Solitaire U.]

These Chechens were Caucasian (in both meanings of the term); they didn't even have beards.

Terrorists without beards? What the fuck were they thinking?

now paranoid people will be afraid of everyone with a foreign accent, regardless of skin tone.

US citizens being paranoid of foreign accents is part of The Great American Tradition. Nothing new there.

 

[Reluctantly]

Jihadist would assume that they wanted to kill people because those people were not Muslim. From what I hear they were protesting the Afghanistan War. They were not focused on killing only none Muslims but Americans in general.

Some may argue that they are Jihadist just because they are Muslim and are against the killing of Muslims in Afghanistan but this is not what Jihad is about. Therefore they would best be labeled as domestic terrorist who were protesting a War. This is quite weird though give the fact that the war is basically over but you can't reason with Crazy.

Based off this article http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-boston-suspects-20130428-dto,0,15030.htmlstory

They came from Chechnya, which was invaded by Russia. And they got refugee status in the US.

Then later the older brother started getting religious and got into eastern religion and equated the Afghanistan and Iraq wars with what Russia did to his home country and what the Jihadists are fighting against. And so I guess he saw the US then as just as bad as the Russians. The Russians supposedly had information about this as well, telling the FBI that he was a potential terrorist risk. I guess the FBI didn't have enough to go on to believe he would be.

And then boom. So does that make him a Jihadist, a Jihadist Sympathizer, or domestic terrorist? Personally, I'd say his motivations weren't much different from a Jihadist, but since he wasn't linked with any Jihadist group, I guess that makes him a Sympathizer?

 

[Solitaire U.]

So does that make him a Jihadist, a Jihadist Sympathizer, or domestic terrorist?

Let's just say "Politically Motivated" and blame it on politicians in general.