Being INTP

[nexion]

You don't have to believe in anything other than acquiring knowledge. Just respect others' life mission. It could be the difference from being an INTP in recluse and an INTP at the forefront of society.

Then again it's your life and you can totally do what you want.

I understand this.

 

[Gather_Wanderer]

lol. I treat people as experiments, or theories, and don't mind if someone else treats me in the exact same way.

What have your studies shown you thus far?

I don't know if I've formed any conclusions. I think my discovering of the MBTI has screwed this up somewhat because now I try to type almost everyone. Not so simple if you're shooting with accuracy.
Some small notes of my observations though:

Most people will reveal almost anything about themselves if you approach them in an honest, sort of curious manner. Throw in some flattery and it is even easier to find out what you want to know. Oddly, in this way, most people are honest.

Commenting on something, anything, in the immediate environment is an easy way to start a conversation with a stranger. This can be advantageous to intellectual types; wit and...witty humor is respected and the other person(s) will admire you, listening to most of anything you want to say. This does not directly help if you are gathering information on someone.

Shyness is preyed upon.

If you make eye contact with a target and you aren't numb enough to maintain it, quickly looking away, etc., you will put the other person on guard. Even if you make contact with them soon after, physical proximity or eye, they will not be revealing and will continue to watch you, to be on guard.

I thought I understood what maturity was (It's supposed to come with age?). The combination of personal responsibility, open-mindedness, and willing assistance of others seems to be based on environment and culture.
It seems as though most people, strangers, are often unkind to one another. Doing any kind of chivalrous act will surprise.

Some small things...

Oh, one thing I have just recently started: Catching sounds from other people's headphones. This is difficult to do and you have to be a bit opportunistic with it. I have some knowledge in music in almost every genre and have quite the ear for identifying artists (Really. If you looked at my collection, you wouldn't know who the hell I was...) and though as of yet not so accurate, it has at times.... I'm still working on this one.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Most people will reveal almost anything about themselves if you approach them in an honest, sort of curious manner. Throw in some flattery and it is even easier to find out what you want to know. Oddly, in this way, most people are honest.

I agree. Everybody likes to be liked.

It seems as though most people, strangers, are often unkind to one another. Doing any kind of chivalrous act will surprise.

I agree, the slightest act of unusual kindness raises eyebrows. But I'd say people are just so defensive because of how tough the world is.

Oh, one thing I have just recently started: Catching sounds from other people's headphones. This is difficult to do and you have to be a bit opportunistic with it. I have some knowledge in music in almost every genre and have quite the ear for identifying artists (Really. If you looked at my collection, you wouldn't know who the hell I was...) and though as of yet not so accurate, it has at times.... I'm still working on this one.

To go even further, notice the type of headphones. Audiophile phones or ipod buds?

I've heard other music than generic radio rap only on a few occasions while riding the bus/train. I think people who listen to mainstream music turn the volume up high and people who have more diverse tastes turn their music down.

 

[Sforza]

To go even further, notice the type of headphones. Audiophile phones or ipod buds?

I've heard other music than generic radio rap only on a few occasions while riding the bus/train. I think people who listen to mainstream music turn the volume up high and people who have more diverse tastes turn their music down.

May I make the assumption that it's probably because people who have more diverse tastes tend to care more about the audio equipment they use, and also tend to care about sound leakage so they deliberately pick cans/IEMs that provide a good seal and won't bother other people around them? I check out people's headphones all the time too because headphones are a hobby of mine

 

[Melkor]

You started a sentence with 'And?'

Well, no points for creativity...or grammar.... or intrigue....

But yeah, well done!

I like.:P

 

[vavel7]

Oh my God!! I'm speechless!! I don't know what to write after this.... I'm really happy that I found this thread. I've known about personality tests since I was an undergrad in Psychology. I actually found this forum as my PhD reading got me into Jung's writing (I was always looking for an opportunity to go around his work) and I decided to check the web for any forums! I'm glad I did that. Well, INTP's we are just not cut for this world. It doesn't matter someone must do the dirty work to create order from chaos....

 

[nexion]

I read this post with the same amount of awe and amazement... it so much describes me. But I have found that it now misses something which I have found crucial to my person. I have changed greatly since the time that I first read this, or, perhaps, in a sudden burst of thoughtfulness towards that which is irrational, I have not changed at all, but have come to the realization of something within myself that I so often ignored and spited, and with quiet reprieve suppressed with every force of my being... but there is no way I could suppress myself for long; that which desired, and desired deeply. I hope that you too should come to that realization soon as well, my friend, lest you should walk around in the same torments that I die, living but not alive, finding no satisfaction in either or drink or pleasure, but instead being as a zombie, quite alive but dead inside...

 

[Le Jet]

OP, a lot of what you write goes home

I think maybe you represent one pole of INTP where I represent the other. We have a lot in common but unlike you I at some point found pleasure in cracking the social codes (of my own culture, at least). I have little problems understanding just about everything that goes on in a social situation. I even appear extremely outgoing when I choose to. I even take pleasure in it.

My point here is that the archtype INTP is not connected to social skills or placement on the social map, it's everything else you wrote that makes up this otherwise broad category.

Good job!

 

[Auburn]

PhilosphyKing, you have a wonderful gift, and so I have a gift for you also; an honest and hopefully constructive criticism. for truth's sake.

Superiority

..is entirely a subjective word, is it not? You uplift knowledge and logic, praising them as the absolute purpose for life, yet logic itself should teach you that there is no objective scale by which to categorize a human's worth save that which your mind has fabricated.

You are acting no different than the rest of humanity which uplifts itself for it's various "gifts" - and is bias to claim the gifts it possesses as the best. The model show off her figure and uplift herself for her beauty. She feels superior to other women, and that's all she sees. The authoritative, the commanders and CEOs, look down upon the less motivated/active and look in the mirror with pride. They reassure themselves in their supremacy because they're actually doing something with their lives. The tender mother who loves her child enough to die for it looks upon the impatient and frustrated parents and is glad she's not like them. I love my baby more than they love theirs, she says to herself. .. and the list goes on forever...

But the truth-seeker, when he has found truth, is mute to give praise to himself. Praise is not rational - it is not objectively true; only subjectively appealing to the Self. (not that there's anything wrong with subjectivity itself, but it must be distinguished from objectivity.)

True Objectivity

..is when your ego disappears completely and your identity is no longer separate from the rest of the universe. Your own mind is just as much a novelty to you as your surroundings, and nothing, not even life, truly belongs to you - but to this peculiar and fascinating phenomenon you are observing.

The cost of of Truth is a death to yourself (as Adymus eloquently posted elsewhere). In order to truly understand the bigger picture, you must remove yourself from it and observe it not in relation to you but in relation to itself.

 

[Cavallier]

@PK: There is a lot here I identify with but I can't escape the notion that you are describing a caricature of some idolized archetypal INTP as apposed to a real person. There is no room for humanity in your description of yourself. Though many INTPs eschew humanity as much as possible as long as they are still alive they are woefully human. Where does your humanity fit into this description of yourself?

 

[Fukyo]

@PK: There is a lot here I identify with but I can't escape the notion that you are describing a caricature of some idolized archetypal INTP as apposed to a real person.

He just wrote from the perspective of a dominant function's ivory tower. It can't even qualify as a full type description.

 

[SilentChaos]

everything in my life is an experiment, i constantly detach myself from everything; my own problems, others problems and the world’s problems all blurs into the same thing; just another fascinating challenging mind game for my amusement.

lol. I treat people as experiments, or theories, and don't mind if someone else treats me in the exact same way.

What have your studies shown you thus far?

I have noticed (I’m unsure if this is an obvious thing that has just come to my knowledge) that if you know the motives of someone (what they want in life), then you almost control them, you can tell when they are lying to you and why, what they already know how their mind sorts information anything you want; all information gained prior to that if easy to sort into a theory about them.

I tend to scare people with the amount of information I know about them, as a general suggesting if someone asks you to tell them how their mind works don’t actually tell them...

 

[Minuend]

There are some things I can relate to, others that I do not.

My mind is far from an organized library, it's more like a network of railroads that is connected in Escher's Relativity. It's confusing, bizarre and lacks destination. It's constantly moving, new tracks are being built, others are lost. Once in a while, the locomotives gets upgraded. There's no guarantee a whole section of this network isn't discarded in an instant, turned upside down or pushed further ahead.

I don't "feel" that understanding is my highest goal. I don't feel that I have a goal. Occasionally I get these bursts of curiosity where I become lost in what I read. Sadly, they are far apart. Problem is that there's so much I want to learn, but usually I don't feel like immersing myself. Sometimes I read something new anyways. I know how any new knowledge contributes to my understanding of the world, and I already feel so ignorant.

Which brings us to my relation to others. I don't see myself above others, I don't think other should change to suit my values, because my values isn't necessarily the "correct" ones. I think quoting this will suffice:

Superiority

..is entirely a subjective word, is it not? You uplift knowledge and logic, praising them as the absolute purpose for life, yet logic itself should teach you that there is no objective scale by which to categorize a human's worth save that which your mind has fabricated.

You are acting no different than the rest of humanity which uplifts itself for it's various "gifts" - and is bias to claim the gifts it possesses as the best.

I don't think I'll ever be able to live

without dishonesty or a hint of foolish slavery, or typical illusions.

I believe I'm quite trapped in these and will never be able to escape. I will always be my own prison, I will never break free from everything to achieve perfect clarity. My vision will always be blurred and biased. It's subjectively frustrating, but inherently neutral. It is what it is, neither good nor bad.

And as such, life for a true thinker is only ever a giant prison sentence — constantly forced to conform and obey, to submit and comply (usually with that which is not intelligent in the slightest, caused and invented by lesser men wither smaller minds).

Lesser men. Idiots. What objective truth do you use to justify such perspective? Why are they in the wrong, and the philosopher in the right?

The prison which you mention here is one I willingly conform to. I accept that in order to attain what I subjectively consider a decent life there must be certain sacrifices.

 

[nexion]

There are some things I can relate to, others that I do not.

My mind is far from an organized library, it's more like a network of railroads that is connected in Escher's Relativity. It's confusing, bizarre and lacks destination. It's constantly moving, new tracks are being built, others are lost. Once in a while, the locomotives gets upgraded. There's no guarantee a whole section of this network isn't discarded in an instant, turned upside down or pushed further ahead.

I don't "feel" that understanding is my highest goal. I don't feel that I have a goal. Occasionally I get these bursts of curiosity where I become lost in what I read. Sadly, they are far apart. Problem is that there's so much I want to learn, but usually I don't feel like immersing myself. Sometimes I read something new anyways. I know how any new knowledge contributes to my understanding of the world, and I already feel so ignorant.

Which brings us to my relation to others. I don't see myself above others, I don't think other should change to suit my values, because my values isn't necessarily the "correct" ones. I think quoting this will suffice:



I don't think I'll ever be able to live


I believe I'm quite trapped in these and will never be able to escape. I will always be my own prison, I will never break free from everything to achieve perfect clarity. My vision will always be blurred and biased. It's subjectively frustrating, but inherently neutral. It is what it is, neither good nor bad.



Lesser men. Idiots. What objective truth do you use to justify such perspective? Why are they in the wrong, and the philosopher in the right?

The prison which you mention here is one I willingly conform to. I accept that in order to attain what I subjectively consider a decent life there must be certain sacrifices.

Agreed entirely. Except the last paragraph. I don't make compromises. I don't change for anyone. And I don't expect anybody to change for me. I will take anyone exactly as they are, and if they are not willing to do the same for me, then they are a waste of my time. If my life is shitty because of it, so be it. I'll get over it eventually.

I recently have realized that, while most of the public masses, the "sheep," are not as intellectually able as I am, they have other skills that I don't have. Everyone has a niche in society. I view knowledge as the most important thing, and my goal is to learn as much as possible in this moment I have to live, but others may not share my sentiments. Overall, though, I think being willing to learn is being willing to endure hardships and terrible truths that no one who isn't willing to learn doesn't have to will to endure. The more knowledge one has, the more he realizes he doesn't know a fraction of all there is to know, and for one who views knowledge as more important than everything else, that could be particularly disheartening. Also, being that we have the inherent ability to carefully analyze systems, we can find flaws within systems, and then have the horrification of knowing that there is nothing within our power to fix it. So sad...

 

[Philosophyking87]

OP, a lot of what you write goes home

I think maybe you represent one pole of INTP where I represent the other. We have a lot in common but unlike you I at some point found pleasure in cracking the social codes (of my own culture, at least). I have little problems understanding just about everything that goes on in a social situation. I even appear extremely outgoing when I choose to. I even take pleasure in it.

My point here is that the archtype INTP is not connected to social skills or placement on the social map, it's everything else you wrote that makes up this otherwise broad category.

Good job!

Thanks. I know that I'm a particular 'strand' of INTP. I've seen plenty of diversity in these forums enough to know that much. So I wouldn't expect it to truly capture all INTP's, in general. I just thought that if I gave an honest description of myself, that most INTP's would somewhat relate to what I've written. And that much seems to be true.

 

[Philosophyking87]

PhilosphyKing, you have a wonderful gift, and so I have a gift for you also; an honest and hopefully constructive criticism. for truth's sake.

Superiority

A wonderful gift, eh? I suppose.

And, I'm simply aware of the difference between myself and others. Sometimes, this can turn into unfounded and quite grotesque narcissism, but mostly it's just an awareness. My highest philosophy is usually "live and let live." Yet, as a person who suffers from social problems, often so goofy and particular in my way of intellectually over-analyzing things in a way that might be considered too impractical, I often have reasons to complain about others, a lot in the same way George Carlin did.

Thus, I never mean for it to come off as superior. I do have a sense of self-pride and frequent feelings of superiority, but it's just a personal sense of expression more than anything, a harmless attitude that usually remains hidden behind my forehead. All in all, I only mean to honestly express myself, as Bruce Lee once said. Honest self-expression is an important thing for me. As such, I usually feel compelled to honestly express my reasons for conflict with others — all the social frustration, the feelings of isolation, and the feeling that most people aren't intelligent enough for my liking, and that I have to deal with this!

True Objectivity

Aye. I wouldn't consider myself a robotic inquirer, entirely soulless and only 'looking out.' I do have an ego. I do have a large sense of self. I'm largely philosophical and existential. I take my life seriously. Having self-pride, and a notion of self-love, I often lament my own future passing. I enjoy myself. I like being me. To be one's self is exhilarating. I'm usually disappointed and annoyed by others (having low interpersonal intelligence), so I'm often completely withdrawn in my head, not capable of truly relating to others in a truly authentic fashion. It feels like being an alien, sometimes.

Thus, my sense of person is largely intact. That's difficult to remove. Although, I suppose I do agree that one should learn to distinguish between the self and truly objective thought, for a prideful sense of self can easily taint all the wonderful intellectual intentions someone might have.

 

[Philosophyking87]

@PK: There is a lot here I identify with but I can't escape the notion that you are describing a caricature of some idolized archetypal INTP as apposed to a real person. There is no room for humanity in your description of yourself. Though many INTPs eschew humanity as much as possible as long as they are still alive they are woefully human. Where does your humanity fit into this description of yourself?

No, I was describing myself, entirely.

And humanity...

People often assume I'm a heartless bastard with no real capacity to love anything. In many ways, it's true. I've never been a wonderful pet owner, and perhaps that's for the best. I'm usually extremely intellectual, distant, and cold. To me, it's a way of keeping sharp, on the ball, in focus; analytical thought is the greatest thing ever, to me. It's my lifeblood and I couldn't live without it. The ability to think independently as creatively as I want, to see the entire world as a giant set of raw material to be remolded and reshaped at my will is why I wake up every morning. I have the power to recast what stands before me with my own mind. I think that's pretty powerful.

At any rate, I'm usually so extremely fond of reason and logic that I give people the false impression that I have no humanistic soul, that I'm some frigid tyrant who would easily and without remorse harm an infant without a blink. Perhaps I might be colder than most people, and perhaps I could cast icy judgment on individuals I deem guilty of some violation, but people often assume that because I'm cold and principled, that I have no value in humanity, which is false.

I champion a person's right to live how they want — of lifestyles. I am liberal in that sense. I also champion many other important individual freedoms which people should bear. And, most importantly, I champion the little guys: the poor, the working class, the downtrodden and oppressed social creatures. I am for the underdog and against any oppressor. I value ethics and I take it very seriously when people are taken advantage of by those who are more manipulative and strong, brutish and intimidating.

Most importantly, one of my highest passions is music. Along with thinking, listening to, enjoying, and creating music is an activity which I couldn't live without. It's so stimulating and intellectually intriguing. It's world full of so many different emotions and one's imagination can get lost for days in these aural atmospheres. I enjoy much emotional music, even if I am fond of classical and neoclassical music (Bach, Mozart, Malmsteen, for instance). Hence, I can appreciate wonderful musical structures, even if there's little emotion, but more logical workings going on. Or, I can appreciate very emotional music (Beethoven, Chopin, and John Lennon). Some of my favorite songs are emotional in nature: John Lennon's Jealous Guy, Beautiful Boy, Mother, and my favorite song of all time Imagine. And notice that my favorite song is essentially an international anthem for the celebration of humanity and life on this planet.

Hence, I am very idealistic. If this isn't proof of humanity, I don't know what is. I imagine worlds better than the current one in which we live. I imagine more happiness. I imagine everyone learning to get along, without open corruption and outright manipulation, suffering, and struggling. I imagine a world without poverty; a rational world full of intellect, beauty, and wonderful things. I imagine a re-awakening, much in the same way that the Renaissance was such an awakening. In short, I imagine a better world.

Sure, I should've also included some of this in my description, but as you said, we INTP's do tend to eschew out humanistic side. I suppose that is a very important critical aspect of what I've written, and perhaps I should revise it when I have time, and include some more humanistic aspects about myself.

I clearly care a lot about others, and the world as whole. I want people to be happy and for life to flourish in peace, without conflict or war, or destruction. Yet, I don't get along with people, and that's the most ironic aspect of it all.... So, I look at humans from a detached distance, sharing in their fears and desires, without really crying and cheering along side them, but instead from afar.

Hopefully this answers what you were asking.

 

[Philosophyking87]

Lesser men. Idiots. What objective truth do you use to justify such perspective? Why are they in the wrong, and the philosopher in the right?

It's just frustrating to watch rather incompetent humans organize, administer, and essentially direct the world around us, who often times don't know what they're doing, or don't care to do it right, or are too busy running shady deals and playing interpersonal social games to really sit down and get to business, to truly reshape the world in a more suitable manner. To me, it's just a bunch of social monkeys (no offense to anyone) running around with their schedules, fancy cars, and nice salary at the end of the year and a sweet paycheck at the end of the day. There's no real honest and genuine care to make things right.

Being an INT, I'm usually playing the role of the social critic, by default. All my life, I've looked at others and found plenty wrong with the way things are. It's like watching a child attempt to ride a bike, or put clothes on: you want to see them do it right, you have a clue as to how they might do it better, but they won't listen and you can't really verbalize what you think. This can be pretty frustrating. Additionally, most practical people don't seem to care much at all what social critics say, and philosophical generally tend to have a bad reputation these days, as being unnecessary and useless. So I often get the feeling that philosophers today are just ignored, and silly practical people carry on with their business, with no real intellectual concerns, and that's pretty frightening.

So, as an intellectual person, a person often fond of the role of the philosopher or social critic, it really irritates me to look at practical people function from day to day, without an ounce of inquiry as to whether or not they are doing something wrong, or whether or not they should do something differently. It's like an ant just programmed to go about its business, with no real freedom of thought. Just protocols and routine. It's the same kind of retarded bureaucratic hierarchy that you find in the military. Top down and no one should question anything. Just take orders. That, to me, creates many problems, even if it's great for organization and efficiency.

Thus, I have intellectual reasons to find practical people at fault, and they have many reasons to find a lazy intellectual at fault, as well. So it just works both ways. I simply tend to have intellectual intolerance for those who are clearly doing things wrong without a clue as to what they should be doing. Most people seem like giant blabbering social monkeys just following a traditional pattern of life which doesn't benefit everyone, especially the intellectuals. So, there's just frustration and friction there. I understand that practical people are just different, and they should be able to do what they're doing. However, if their differences create problems, I usually prefer a policy of isolationism. Live and let live. You do what you do, I'll do what I do. So I don't really see a problem with different people honestly expressing their frustrations with one another, and that's all I'm really doing. I don't get along with practical people at all, and I find them to be a bit offensive from time to time.

 

[nexion]

These last two posts are brilliant.

 

[Philosophyking87]

Yeah, it wasn't too bad. Hopefully you related to some of it.

 

[Minuend]

Agreed entirely. Except the last paragraph. I don't make compromises. I don't change for anyone. And I don't expect anybody to change for me. I will take anyone exactly as they are, and if they are not willing to do the same for me, then they are a waste of my time. If my life is shitty because of it, so be it. I'll get over it eventually.

Yeah.

But there are laws and some loss of personal freedom in a society. You are not free to do whatever you want whenever you want.

It's just frustrating to watch rather incompetent humans organize, administer, and essentially direct the world around us, who often times don't know what they're doing, or don't care to do it right, or are too busy running shady deals and playing interpersonal social games to really sit down and get to business, to truly reshape the world in a more suitable manner. To me, it's just a bunch of social monkeys (no offense to anyone) running around with their schedules, fancy cars, and nice salary at the end of the year and a sweet paycheck at the end of the day. There's no real honest and genuine care to make things right.

Some care, others do not. Some are competent, others are not.

Are you certain you are not confusing competence with your own opinion of what should be? Perhaps you believe there is one answer to be found if examined closely enough?

Running the world isn't all that easy, you know. The media loves to talk about the nasty stuff, which probably gives the impression leaders are generally fucked up. You don't read "mister Obama did well at work today" in the news papers. (Of course, you do read "Obama prevented WW3 today", but I'm guessing most of his work is pretty boring and won't reach the news)

Being an INT, I'm usually playing the role of the social critic, by default. All my life, I've looked at others and found plenty wrong with the way things are. It's like watching a child attempt to ride a bike, or put clothes on: you want to see them do it right, you have a clue as to how they might do it better, but they won't listen and you can't really verbalize what you think. This can be pretty frustrating. Additionally, most practical people don't seem to care much at all what social critics say, and philosophical generally tend to have a bad reputation these days, as being unnecessary and useless. So I often get the feeling that philosophers today are just ignored, and silly practical people carry on with their business, with no real intellectual concerns, and that's pretty frightening.

Why is it important that individuals do better? No matter how well they are doing, they could always be "better". To strive for perfection is to embark on a futile journey where the only treasure you'll find is misery. Better to accept that humans are flawed and that will never change. If you fix one error, another one will surely follow. Anyone using Windows knows that.

Practical people, intellectuals. Seems kinda black and white to me. Most people have a sense of right and wrong. Not all base their perspectives on thorough thought, but why do they need to? How different is your life to that of others because of deep thought? Do you not spend your days like most other people do? Value a lot of the same things other people do? Maybe you feel free and less ignorant. I assure you they do too.

Thus, I have intellectual reasons to find practical people at fault, and they have many reasons to find a lazy intellectual at fault, as well. So it just works both ways. I simply tend to have intellectual intolerance for those who are clearly doing things wrong without a clue as to what they should be doing. Most people seem like giant blabbering social monkeys just following a traditional pattern of life which doesn't benefit everyone, especially the intellectuals. So, there's just frustration and friction there. I understand that practical people are just different, and they should be able to do what they're doing. However, if their differences create problems, I usually prefer a policy of isolationism. Live and let live. You do what you do, I'll do what I do. So I don't really see a problem with different people honestly expressing their frustrations with one another, and that's all I'm really doing. I don't get along with practical people at all, and I find them to be a bit offensive from time to time.

There doesn't need to be friction, there can be tolerance. If you try to see the individual, you'll realize that there are other things people can offer than deep thought. If I shall place value on various traits, I'd say often what they are able to offer is just as important as deep thought. In addition, lack of "deep thought" doesn't make a bad individual.

People are free to voice their frustrations, but you did claim search for truth somewhere, didn't you?

 

[vagabond]

Holy shit! I just found this website and having read a small handfull of posts - I don't know whether I just found Heaven or Hell (maybe I'll start my own post with that phrase).

P-King, I'll have to read your post a couple times and mull it over to better grasp it's meaning for me, but after a quick read, I relate.

DesertSmeagle - I'm 47 and wish I was in your shoes. I didn't discover my intphood until somewhat recently, nor begin to research and understand it until the past few weeks (too much other stuff in my life). Had I known earlier in life, I might have taken vastly different decisions that I have.

Re: major and career path - ultimately, take the decision(s) and path(s) that work for you, but focus on some of the majors/careers that tend to work best with your curious and big-picture mind. Economics, sociology, psychology (there are many paths you can take with this one, but determine first whether you simply seek to better understand yourself via the knowledge), architecture, meteorology, etc. These all deal with large and complex systems.

Too, however, consider some sort of side education or learning hobby with practical utilization (ie - a trade skill - carpentry, etc), which might allow you to actually complete a finished project. I just built/milled from scratch hardwood floors in my house. Laborious, tedious, etc., but the sense of completion and pride every time I walk around.

Good luck.