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At Engineers Expense

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
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I was at a conference last night to give a presentation on the benefits of teaching engineering students to critically think. Before it was time for my presentation I had to endure a maraud of presentations by scientists. One thing I noticed was that their humor revolved around belittling engineers. The comments were in reference about how engineers perform poorly in numerous areas. However, the referenced areas are outside the scope of engineering specification.

The insulting jokes continued for two hours.

When I got on stage the first line that came was "Good evening. My name is ... and yes I am an engineer." While staring down the previous speakers.

I would like to know why scientists love to belittle engineers.
 

Artifice Orisit

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In my personal experience it's because they tend to forget everyone else did high school physics too, and getting lectured on thermal dynamics when you already understand it is pretty annoying.

And most scientists are NT types who became scientists so they could be called scientists.

Also by the nature of an engineer's profession if anything goes wrong it's almost always possible for it to be the engineer's fault in some way, the blame game basically.
 

del

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Scientists like to think of themselves as "discovering new knowledge" whereas engineers merely apply that knowledge, with the tacit implication that one is better than the other.
 

fullerene

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Everyone always looks down on the applied stuff more. Think about manual labor, janitors, etc. Within the sciences, the more math-y fields also look down on the less mathy ones (physics > chem > bio).

To be honest, though, I think everyone belittles everyone in other disciplines. Scientists are among the worst. One computational biophysicist (professor) told me, in all seriousness, that he thought post-modernism was a conspiracy whipped up by the humanities so that none of them could criticize each others' works anymore.

The trend I notice is: the narrower the field, and the higher the degree earned in that field, the worse they belittle other peoples' fields. One of my high school teachers had two PhDs, one on the kinetic theory of gasses with polar molecules, and another on some branch of thermodynamics (I think... my memory of high school days is fading). He used to joke about "how could you make something like history get any harder? It's all the same ideas. Well... ok, maybe you could put it in an older language, so it's harder to read or something, but that's not actually making the subject any harder."


To be honest, though, you're probably taking this a bit too personally/seriously. A fair amount of scientists make fun of their own fields too. One grad student joked about how physicists still act like it's the stone age, conceptually. "What's in the coconut? *grunts* I dunno. Why not break coconut open with rock?" .... "What's in this electron? Hmm... let's get it moving reeaaaally fast and smash em into each other, and find out!" And I can't even tell you how often I hear physicists say they pick off all the easy problems, leaving anything remotely hard to other disciplines... or how they just call everything a mass on a spring and model it that way.

I'll remember not to insult them too badly, and make everything perfectly relevant and well-specified, if I have to talk to a group of engineers... but in spirit, scientists act a lot like little children, not taking anything too seriously, laughing at how silly people are, etc. There are a couple INTJs who still take themselves very seriously and hold everything they care about in super-high respects, but overall it's a pretty xNTP field. I think they just got their audience's crossed and stepped on toes without realizing it.
 

Nicholas A. A. E.

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Maybe I'm way off on this, but perhaps scientist:engineer is like INTP:INTJ.
 

fullerene

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Well, I'm sure that's what it sounded like, but only because I see it that way, and very blatantly portrayed it that way. I'm not really sure if it's accurate, though.
 

asdfasdfasdfsdf

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engineers merely apply that knowledge


are you certain of this?
you know how many different types of engineers there are?
do you know what a computer engineer is?
many different engineers do research as well.. its not something outside of the engineering field..
 

Wish

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This is exactly the conflict I just went through! I very recently transferred from chemical engineering to biochemistry because I was getting annoyed with how much of the chemical engineering classes was spent learning how to apply all of these thermodynamic properties in large scale reactions. This may have been influenced as well by my recent discovery of being INTP, but I really felt like, and hopefully will continue to feel like, what I wanted was to just amass a knowledge of as much science as possible and just figure things out. Right now I'm planning on pursuing graduate research opportunities, and most likely continuing research.

What it really came down to was just how much of the chemical engineering practice was focused on "maintaining" processes, or effiecieny, or whatever. I don't know if this can be said about other engineering professions and surely not all chemical engineers do the same thing, but it just didn't feel right.
 

Cogwulf

Is actually an INTJ
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This is exactly the conflict I just went through! I very recently transferred from chemical engineering to biochemistry because I was getting annoyed with how much of the chemical engineering classes was spent learning how to apply all of these thermodynamic properties in large scale reactions. This may have been influenced as well by my recent discovery of being INTP, but I really felt like, and hopefully will continue to feel like, what I wanted was to just amass a knowledge of as much science as possible and just figure things out. Right now I'm planning on pursuing graduate research opportunities, and most likely continuing research.

What it really came down to was just how much of the chemical engineering practice was focused on "maintaining" processes, or effiecieny, or whatever. I don't know if this can be said about other engineering professions and surely not all chemical engineers do the same thing, but it just didn't feel right.

I applied to do chemical engineering but didn't get the grades I needed to get on the course, which was actually a good thing because between applying to the course and getting my exam results I decided I would transfer to a different course after I started for pretty much the same reasons as you. Chemical engineering seems to be 95% process management and 5% chemistry and engineering.

The course I'm on now is Materials Science & Technology/Materials Engineering. It's a brilliant course, and it really interests me because it's about the fundamental properties of everything, and it leaves me open to either science or engineering, but I'll probably choose the engineering path
 

Tyria

Ryuusa bakuryuu
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I would like to know why scientists love to belittle engineers.

For similar reasons that engineers belittle scientists. It reminds me of sibling rivalry.
 

del

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are you certain of this?
you know how many different types of engineers there are?
do you know what a computer engineer is?
many different engineers do research as well.. its not something outside of the engineering field..

Reread my post. I wasn't saying I thought engineers merely applied knowledge; I was saying that's the mentality scientists sometimes have.

My dad is an engineer so I know the kind of research they're capable of doing.
 

walfin

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Maybe I'm way off on this, but perhaps scientist:engineer is like INTP:INTJ.

Hm. I've got the impression that it's INT?:IST?, which would explain the condescension.

Though they are really all NTs. Well, for the most part, at least.
 
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