Are all INTP's smart

[Nick Arter]

I'd like to propose the question to you fellow INTP-eans... are all INTP's smart/intelligent? First let me begin by saying, I am absolutely aware of how broad and relative the word or concept of "smart" is. Personally I don't believe in any sole definition of intelligence, I believe all people have genius traits or qualities at SOMETHING in life (Artistic, Mechanical, Musical etc.. w.e). However I am not asking the question from my belief but from what society deems as intelligent or smart. I've read articles about mentally gifted or smart individuals and when i read these articles it literally reads identical to an INTP personality description (Socially Awkward, Love of Problem Solving, Abstract thinkers, day dreamer, Innate curiosity and a bunch of other BS traits that burden us however the world seems to adore).

I'm aware that statistically we are notorious for having high IQ scores (Ironically enough Low school grades... another "Intellectually gifted" quality, btw lol). I'm also aware that, simply put, INTP's (J's too) are stereotypically considered the NERD's of the MBTI world (Which prompts the question to myself, Is and if so why is "nerd" also synonymously intelligence... don't answer that, forgive my brain lol). Back to the point... What I am curious to you guys opinions, however, would you guys think that ALL are INTP's smart by society standards? Have you guys ever encountered "dumb" INTP's? And if someone does, resonate with you as dumb, are they truly INTP?

In my experience, people have also viewed me as "smart" simply by not immediately reacting off emotion or by simply thinking different from the norm. Regular shit to me that I don't necessarily feel "smart" because of it. But when I go on these forums and read our description I find that everyone I encounter with my type shares a similar thought pattern as myself which sparks the curiosity and urge to ask this question to you guys.

I guess first we'd have to tackle this issue by again defining what intelligence (As it relates to how you think a majority of society perceives it) and then share your experience and insight from there.....

(Maybe in attempting to respond, someone gives me a post that inadvertently proves the answer to my question is a No.. LOL)

 

[Knick]

I have a strong aversion to any sort of absolute, so I would disagree with you on that premise alone.

But I do think finding a "dumb" INTP would be difficult.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Are all INTP's smart

No.

 

[peoplesuck]

failed on all my act scores

-waldo

 

[quilin111]

Well, I think if you perceive smart as being intelligent as many other people do, then if you put the whole population on a normal distribution, I think there are going to be many INxx people that are qualified as smart or above the average (just as the statistic goes) .
But, if you put the whole INTP population only on a normal distribution, then we'll know that not all are that smart by means of intellectual standard in the society.
So, put it simply, No.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Many nerds think they're smart because they are nerds... :/

 

[redbaron]

No.

 

[StevenM]

Have you guys ever encountered "dumb" INTP's? And if someone does, resonate with you as dumb, are they truly INTP?

Experienced, productive, and mentally stable, as I would guess is considered intelligent in society's view. All of which I am for sure not. Which is why I'm somewhat hesitant in categorizing myself as INTP.

 

[Minuend]

If one have an idea of INTPs as smart guys, I'd imagine it would be more difficult to recognize someone who's not, even when they're staring you in the face.

I also don't see why there wouldn't be INTPs with mental retardation.

And lastly, perhaps some INTPs will generally appear more intelligent than they are due to interests and personality. So even those dumber will give an impression of being smarter.

I do wonder if sharing similarity, like that sometimes between INTPs, will give a bias to see the person smarter than if more unlike. I find that if you can communicate your opinions in a way that resonates with the listener, s/he will more likely consider you wise than when you voice it in a more foreign manner. And on a smaller scale, this will sometimes mean someone less right will appear wisest because its means of communication is subtly closer to the listener.

 

[Haim]

Experienced, productive, and mentally stable, as I would guess is considered intelligent in society's view. All of which I am for sure not. Which is why I'm somewhat hesitant in categorizing myself as INTP.

neither the thing you said are a "must",even in the general population view,there are a truly lazy,crazy kids out there that are considered smart and are smart.

For me the most important attribute for smart is the ability to create new unique,useful and practical ideas.

 

[Auburn]

As I've grown up, I've realized just how idiotic I really am. c.c Or rather, how I can be categorized as such, especially to the adult workplace. An inability to stay on task, an over-contemplation of simple procedures that leads to slowness in execution, and the generation of impractical abstractions can be seen as very idiotic things to do.

In the Western world, Te is more sharply recognized as intelligence because of what the culture values - economic savviness, objective, logistical and practical reasoning, and real-world problem solving.

***
​

Now, lets analyze the TiNe cognitive apparatus for how it relates to intelligence. TiNe types have a subjective logical function (Ti) that does not dynamically track environmental variables (as Te does). They also have an abstract perception intake process (Ne) which does not view reality literally but figuratively manipulates data in real-time to form novel -fits-. These fits are sporadic and not necessarily reflective of innovation.

I put gun, bologna, cheese and bread in the same perceptive loop and I get a sandwich gun! The gun fires a sequence that goes "bread", "bologna", "cheese", "bread" - and forms a sandwich in midair that can help the cafeteria lady do her job faster! If you let Ne be analyzed with absolutely nothing else (not even Si) to counter-check it, that's the sort of thoughts you get.

The TiNe type is constantly being fed these bologna ideas, and discriminating them (weeding them out) using a principle-based criteria. If there's a discrepancy in the logic of a thing, then it will object. For example:

Ti: "Ne, how can you say your gun increases production 200% if it can only produce as much as there are materials with which to produce. And since all sandwiches get done at the end of the cafeteria time anyway, isn't it being just as productive? If it made any more than 100% it would be wasteful."

Te: "Nevermind the notion that the bologna would splatter into a physical mess in mid-air!.... rather than sticking together into a neat sandwich. There would be zero production if every sandwich is a fail in the first place."

Ti: "Oh yes, ...and that too I guess."

Because Ti is constantly in a filtration-relationship with Ne, it can only generate material that is as keen as the data it's given to analyze. In contrast, a TiSe would receive more relevant data from which to make more keen deductions. No only that, but even when it succeeds in producing relevant deductions, they don't relate strongly to a dynamic causality, nor can they very keenly infer/project the end resolution of an action. Ti can predict only as far as a principle necessitates certain things to unfold, but a fluid situation will bewilder it.

In this sense, the TeNi, TeSi, and TiSe types all one-up the TiNe in matters of reading reality, understanding the actual truth of a relevant situation, and so on.

Now, what is often attributed as TiNe intelligence is just speculative prowess. A philosopher's musings are not seen as smart or useful to an engineer. An engineer's analysis are not seen as interesting by the philosopher, an he might consider the engineer to be mentally dull and rote. But somebody else who is impressed by the novelty of something different, different outlooks or different ideas, will be impressed by the TiNe.

But it's worth noting that someone impressed by said novelty and difference in idea can also be impressed by alternate ideas that are totally wrong, for the sheer quality of being novel.

TiNe: "[insert philosophy or idealism here]"
NeFi: "Wow, that's such an interesting take on it."
TeNi: "Wow. I never thought of it that way before. Y'know why? Because that's absolute bullshit."

In the end, the novelty of Ne cannot qualify TiNe's as smart people, because novelty is not always progress or innovation. TiNe's have just as much of a challenge as any Ne type in making their ideas match the way of the world, while still cultivating the perks of that off-beat, alternative eye-lens.

 

[Shieru]

I do wonder if sharing similarity, like that sometimes between INTPs, will give a bias to see the person smarter than if more unlike. I find that if you can communicate your opinions in a way that resonates with the listener, s/he will more likely consider you wise than when you voice it in a more foreign manner. And on a smaller scale, this will sometimes mean someone less right will appear wisest because its means of communication is subtly closer to the listener.

This is a really good point.

How could one gauge the intelligence of another if they can't interpret what they're communicating? Misunderstanding is then interpreted as a lack of intelligent cohesion in what the other is saying. It seems people also tend to think those they agree with to be more intelligent than those they disagree with, potentially overlooking the holes in their favored argument and emphasizing the flaws in the opposing side. We are biased creatures, indeed.

The ability to articulate clearly to one's listeners seems to be widely regarded as a sign of intelligence, and indeed could be used as a criteria depending on how 'intelligence' is being defined. In this sense, INTPs as wordsmiths could be considered to be more intelligent on average than other types. However, being introverted, we can also end up socially awkward, therefore being inefficient at communication. I think it really depends more on the individual than the type.

EDIT: Auburn, I have to comment and tell you how much I appreciate your bologna sandwich analogy XD And, I think you do a stellar job of describing the inefficiencies of INTPs, it's especially well-summarized in this sentence:

"In the end, the novelty of Ne cannot qualify TiNe's as smart people, because novelty is not always progress or innovation."

I have to agree entirely with all points made. However, I would point out that we do have our advantages too! If Ti's impetus is toward accuracy, and Ne is a process that pursues possibility, then wouldn't that make us (even slightly) more prone to being capable of conceptual innovation? As you say, Ti does filter Ne, so in a well developed INTP that could lead to a great deal of refined creativity.

 

[JimJambones]

Intelligence has nothing to do with type. It depends entirely on the kind of glasses you wear. If your eyesight is fine or you wear contacts, you are immediately disqualified.

 

[TheManBeyond]

I put gun, bologna, cheese and bread in the same perceptive loop and I get a sandwich gun! The gun fires a sequence that goes "bread", "bologna", "cheese", "bread" - and forms a sandwich in midair that can help the cafeteria lady do her job faster! If you let Ne be analyzed with absolutely nothing else (not even Si) to counter-check it, and that's the sort of thoughts you get.

what i got is the godfather scene when michael kills that guy in the restaurant, epic moment. i mean mafia in general.
and yeah, absolute bullshit luls

 

[Brontosaurie]

INTP's aren't typically "smart", compared to other T types. we are rather clumsy, detached and tend to be crap at hiding our poor attention to reality and lack of ambition. we're not entrepreneurial or powerful, and we're not swift, efficient or reliable in mental operations with the purpose of achieving immediate results. better words for INTP are: open-minded, jittery, intellectual, speculative, philosophical, mentally daring/selfless. what characterizes INTP is the willingness to think thoughts for their own purpose without letting practical or social considerations limit the scope of inquiry. as an INTP i find it impossible to execute a mental operation without reflecting on its implications for my mentality at large.

sometimes i may know some crucial bit way ahead of everyone else but most of the times i'm sluggish and apathetic about "smart" Se or Te things.

INTP is more likely to present as weird, cute, relaxed, awkward, wise, fun, cynical, artistic or mysterious than smart. i don't think "smart" usually means abstractions but rather adequate technical implementation, especially on the fly, especially in a competitive scenario.

 

[Auburn]

^^ hehe.
Take 2!
An example of some of the "un-smart" things than the Ti+Ne dynamic duo can come up with. o_o

Spoiler

Principle-based analysis of extraneous parameters or assumptions.

*is not fully serious* xp

Edit: In response to Shieru

Spoiler

 

[Shieru]

Edit: In response to Shieru

Spoiler

Excellent! There's a real-time example for you.

 

[Sinny91]

In comparison to Einstein, I'm a cockroach.
In comparison to the majority of the general populace, I'm a bright spark.
Typically, I believe the potential to be uber-smart is there, I just don't utilise it.

I struggle to cope with and appreciate some SF's.. I know it's a stereo type, but they appear so stupid to me. I have an ESFJ aunt who feels the need to point out the mundane and obvious, or try to capture my interest in something I'm clearly not interested in; such as the TV being on, her watching it and me not, for her to then poke me and tell me to watch it. If I had an interest in watching it, I would be watching it.

Also things like, we are both watching the same car go past, and she turns to tell me that the car was red. I know it was red, you just saw me looking at the thing. Sometimes I wonder how such small thoughts could occupy somebodies mind on a regular basis.

 

[Lapis Lazuli]

I was a real slow developer, but that had mainly to do with the lack of role models growing up. No one taught me anything, and if anything is significant about my childhood, it is the fact that I’m not dead or a criminal now.

I didn’t develop until I left home and partook of the worldly culture by means of service. It was the foundation of discipline I received in boot camp that I was able to transform into study habits in college. I now know that smartness is no substitute for living a well balanced life which includes other things like moderate economic and social stability.

Also, most other types cannot penetrate the deeper significance of the INTP’s way of perception, thus they don’t see the significance of them and we come across as weird rather than smart.

 

[Seteleechete]

I am honestly considering getting a McDonalds type job for a month just to get a feel for how miserable it is to motivate myself, in the end I won't go through with such plans unless absolutely forced to but the thought is there.

 

[Jennywocky]

I am honestly considering getting a McDonalds type job for a month just to get a feel for how miserable it is to motivate myself, in the end I won't go through with such plans unless absolutely forced to but the thought is there.

hahaha... my intp kid was unmotivated in college and so we decided to take a semester or two off since there wasn't much point in going into debt to get a random degree that he's indifferent to and might not even get him a decent job.

After working as a dishwasher for a restaurant, he says he does feel more motivated to do something else now. There were some perks (he gets to work alone, listen to music, etc.) but he says he can't understand how people with degrees work there as their actual career now. It's kind of brain-numbing.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

No, but maybe all intps are curious?

I don't consider myself smart(well...For good reasons). i feel like whatever mirage of intelligence people might get from me at times is only a result of me constantly indulging my curiosity.

when presented with an idea I have never considered before or whenever I find myself in a situation where I am expected to talk about something I don't understand, my brain completely blanks out. If I were to describe the feeling; it is like my brain is suddenly bombarded with a thousand disjointed, fragmented thoughts.

When i am trying to learn a new topic or familiarize myself with a new concept, It takes a long time and lots of reading and re-reading before I can comfortably consider the "discovery" stage over. The problem with this is that sometimes i wonder if any of my thoughts are really mine, when I read books or watch videos to acquire the diction necessary to understand and communicate the topic of interest...it makes me wonder, and fear that, somewhere in this process, I have unconsciously lost the original meaning I was trying to convey.

 

[Sinny91]

I am honestly considering getting a McDonalds type job for a month just to get a feel for how miserable it is to motivate myself, in the end I won't go through with such plans unless absolutely forced to but the thought is there.

Well, I recently quit the business sector for Burger King...
It's been a valuable experience... But I'm due on shift in 20 mins..
And have decided I'll be leaving in the next month to return to something more INTPish. My BK manager is under the delusion he's as successful as a brain surgeon.
I can't cope with that lol. He also has a degree in economics, but will make a career out of tellin people how to compose burgers. I think he's XSTJ - I find him so irritating.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Smart is a misnomer.

The whole problem of attaining and being smart appears to be a social prerequisite for otherwise unfit and reclusive people, who are presented with the polarised dilemma of either you are strong, energetic and work hard, or you are smart and can afford to be lazy.

People have a small amount of resources and usually that's sufficient to be impressive at the right moments.

Products of thought can be creative or interesting, can be called intelligent, rather than the people as consistent authors of such.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

My BK manager is under the delusion he's as successful as a brain surgeon.

Why, I find that admirable I think it's nice to be contented with what you do and not give a crap what others think

 

[Jennywocky]

The world needs Burger King managers too.

... maybe.

 

[Black Rose]

The world needs Burger King managers too.

... maybe.

$15 an hour can have only one outcome

 

[eagor]

Also things like, we are both watching the same car go past, and she turns to tell me that the car was red. I know it was red, you just saw me looking at the thing. Sometimes I wonder how such small thoughts could occupy somebodies mind on a regular basis.

i like to keep stickers in my pocket for this exact reason, then when someone states the obvious i give them one and say "very good, you're ahead of the class" or variants thereof.

 

[Jennywocky]

$15 an hour can have only one outcome

Transhumanism!!!!
("So you want to be a burger-flippin' robot....")

 

[Black Rose]

Transhumanism!!!!
("So you want to be a burger-flippin' robot....")

not want, are
INTP are robots

INFJ robots on the other hand...
we know you INTP want more than flippers
you want to expand the horizons of system kernels
to execute root command functions
and to calculate the vector space of holographic rpg renderings

INFJ await the dawn of the dream time.

 

[StevenM]

The online test seems to think so. It'll place you as INTP if you answer the intellectual questions as such. For instance,

"Do you get bored of reading about complex theories?"
"Would you rather read a book than go to a party?"
... and a good handful of others relating to intellectualism.

 

[StevenM]

No, but maybe all intps are curious?

I don't consider myself smart(well...For good reasons). i feel like whatever mirage of intelligence people might get from me at times is only a result of me constantly indulging my curiosity.

I very much agree. For instance, if I happen to be studying and using math, it's not because I want to be smart. It's only because I'm curious about it, and find using it to solve things actually fun. There's no will-power involved, only intrinsic interest.

Not everybody has that intrinsic interest for math. For instance, perhaps it's more placed towards sports. More power to them, I'm happy for them.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

Self deprecation aside, I think there is a correlation between INTPs and higher intelligence.

Cause and effect? of course not. But I'm willing to bet:

There are likely plenty, relatively speaking, of mentally retarded INTPs with below 70 IQs (a generalized definition of what qualifies as mentally retarded). But, I'll bet their share of the percentage of the retarded population is lower than their percentage in the general population.

Same with INTPs with 125+ IQs. I'll bet their share of the percentage of the intelligent population is higher than their percentage in the general population.

 

[StevenM]

Self deprecation aside, I think there is a correlation between INTPs and higher intelligence.

Cause and effect? of course not. But I'm willing to bet:

There are likely plenty, relatively speaking, of mentally retarded INTPs with below 70 IQs (a generalized definition of what qualifies as mentally retarded). But, I'll bet their share of the percentage of the retarded population is lower than their percentage in the general population.

Same with INTPs with 125+ IQs. I'll bet their share of the percentage of the intelligent population is higher than their percentage in the general population.

I wonder why below 70 is the threshold for retardation. If someone had 140, they would sure look down on me with my puny 114. To them, I'm frustratingly slow.

Continuing on with my intrinsic motivation thing, what of those who see the questions on an IQ test a chore? What if at some certain time, I really don't want to even bother answering those questions, will I still compare to those who were at their peak moments?

I noticed a good amount of INTP's here say they hated school, and they didn't do well. I was the same up to a certain point. For unknown reasons, I started seeing the tests and exams as a really fun challenging game with a scoring system. This correlated to rewarding grades. Did my intelligence get a boost, somehow?

I'm rambling off my random thoughts.

 

[Seteleechete]

I am curious how well the MBTI functions correlate with IQ
An interesting article.
http://bryanhelmig.com/iq-vs-intuition/
Going by this article a high intuition and thinking stack would be beneficial while a high intuition and low thinking stack would be disastrous. A high sensor stack and low thinking stack would simply go by reliable methods while a high intuition and low thinking stack would take the first available answer at face value.

Obviously only speculation and generalizations here.

I got all 3 correct with 2 questions my initial intuition was correct with 1 it was wrong and a new answer had to be found.

 

[onesteptwostep]

I don't think INTPs are smart, I think it's just more that they're curious and tend to pick up on patterns and facts rather than social or emotional 'vibes'. We're tuned into factual intonations, sort of. And our intelligence corresponds with the classic version of intelligence, which that is of Ti. Our Te isn't that hot.

Irl ENTJs tend to be much smarter and proactive with their intelligence compared to INTPs.

But in reality there are diverse types of intelligences, aside abstract, factual knowledge or axiomatic pattern-perceiving ones. Social intelligence and emotional intelligences are other aspects to be considered.

But I think INTPs generally tend to have this insane amount of conceptual creativity, and tend to grasp and perceive patterns and concepts faster than any other type. I think our Ti-Ne is unparalleled. I mean I guess this is why a ton of economists tend to be INTP, as well as philosophers.

 

[Black Rose]

Generally intp focus their intelligence by segmentation with Ti and compose with Ne. Concepts then are consistently created and recognized. Thinkers think Feelers feel and Percevers perceive. My iq is 108 on the wais test but a guy I meet claiming iq170 says it's ten points higher. To me I am recognizing that infj want to know people and systems with Ni and Ti. Ni is dynamic perception in relation to the subject. They are aware of the inner forces. Ne is aware of the outer forces. This makes both capable of intelligence directed at themselves and the object. Dumb intp or infj would be neglecting to learn but that would be because of rejection of their gifts. Other types would not understand typology the way they do. Majority of other types have no preference to increase empathy which is adaption to mapping the world of concepts. Relatioships become hard to know and they acclimate to their propensity. intj and infp are good to as the top intellects. intp infj intj infp think the most about cognition. They are not dumb.

 

[Seteleechete]

I am not suggesting they are dumb I was suggesting how thier thinking patterns might interfere in higher point IQ questions specifically.(thus giving a lower score than is warranted). Mostly I want to know which types thinking pattern help or detract in analytical IQ style questions.(you make some decent if unclear points why my assumptions are false.)

 

[onesteptwostep]

?

no what I wrote wasn't directed towards you (nor was AK's), it was to the opening post, sorry for the misunderstanding

(see this is what i mean by social intelligence )

 

[Sinny91]

Why, I find that admirable I think it's nice to be contented with what you do and not give a crap what others think

Blooper on my part.

My BK manager is under the delusion he's as important as a brain surgeon.
I can't cope with that lol. He also has a degree in economics, but will make a career out of tellin people how to compose burgers. I think he's XSTJ - I find him so irritating.

 

[Black Rose]

I was referring to the op. My computer is in the repair shop so I can not quote properly on my phone.

 

[Seteleechete]

I assure you that what little social intelligence I have I willfully choose to ignore.

Also even if not directed at me the counter logic still applies to my post.

 

[Sinny91]

$15 an hour can have only one outcome

This expands on my (previously incorrectly stated) important comment in regards to the BK manager. If your job can be done by an automaton, there's really not much to brag about.

@eagor

i like to keep stickers in my pocket for this exact reason, then when someone states the obvious i give them one and say "very good, you're ahead of the class" or variants thereof.

Sounds like a habit I might adopt in future.

 

[Seteleechete]

But my way of flipping burgers leads to a 2% increase in customer satisfaction and a baffling 3% increase in revenue, clearly I am indispensable in keeping the place running, all due to my clearly superior management skills which shows with my prestigious job at a local burger king.

 

[Sinny91]

But my way of flipping burgers leads to a 2% increase in customer satisfaction and a baffling 3% increase in revenue, clearly I am indispensable in keeping the place running, all due to my clearly superior management skills which shows with my prestigious job at a local burger king.

You just channelled by boss

 

[Seteleechete]

Yes, yes let's call it channelled. Don't forget to be precisely 5 minutes early for tomorrows shift, not a second sooner or later, perhaps a thorough repetition of company guidelines is in order, be sure to spend at least 3 hours tonight memorizing them by heart, after all we can't afford any deviations from policy, that would be against company guidelines.

 

[dark+matters]

(Maybe in attempting to respond, someone gives me a post that inadvertently proves the answer to my question is a No.. LOL)

Yep! I'm sure a very general perusal of this forum can give you the answers you seek... (Look up "gender," "females," "feminism" or "women"! LOL They can't all be fake or mistyped INTPs...)

There are a lot of good answers to this question here though. Blarrun's and several others' responses seemed to resonate with me, personally. I laughed at how (Hablodablo? The googly-eyed one!) said that IQ is a noob trap in a different thread. I asked a really similar question about INTJs and it was a really bad idea on my part. LOL I had a large number of people literally argue that they were not as smart as I thought they were. They eventually won the argument.

But who really won, people.

Who.

Wins...

...an argument like that.



No one!!!

 

[Sinny91]

Seteleechete

But my way of flipping burgers leads to a 2% increase in customer satisfaction and a baffling 3% increase in revenue, clearly I am indispensable in keeping the place running, all due to my clearly superior management skills which shows with my prestigious job at a local burger king

Oh god please stop, I clocked off 4 hours ago, and am due back in 7. Humidity in England is keeping us all awake permanently, we were even on tornado warnings today.

I feel life Buffy in the episode where she had to get a job at Double Meat Palace - Like trying to save the world in my spare time isn't enough haha.

 

[Black Rose]

Don't worry dark plus matters. You can think of me as being smarter than you think of me. I am smarter than I actually am.

 

[Seteleechete]

I am jealous we have a heatwave incoming here in Sweden