American adolescents

[Jean Paul]

My newphew brought up a interesting point.......he's 13 and he is appauled how intellect is important to a majority of people his age,but partying and social norms are.

 

[Words]

are? Arr... Argh!!!

I don't understand.

 

[snafupants]

Are you sure you did not mean to say unimportant? That would sort of jibe more with "but". Assuming you meant unimportant, he has a point. Adolescents typically operate on an instinct level, superficial appearances and pleasures and drives and lifestyles, and that is at least one notch down from a rich intellectual life. A spiritual life, imho, still trumps an intellectual one. Woah, wait American? This seems to be a problem of development and lower consciousness, and not necessarily restricted to certain cultures.

 

[SQ_Minion]

I don't quite understand the point of this thread; this phenomenon has been observed by every generation for thousands of years. The ancient Greeks lamented the decadence of the younger generation, the Renaissance adults scoffed at the time-wasting of their children, the industrial revolutionaries were appalled by the laziness of the children. As the wise man said, "Nothing is new under the sun."

 

[Glordag]

What this thread needs is a little Devil's advocate. Why do you all just take it for granted that adolescents do not value intelligence? Do you recall how much esteem you had for the kid in school that knew the most about Star Wars, dinosaurs, or GI Joes? Perhaps intelligence is just valued on a different level as we progress through different stages of maturity.

 

[nexion]

Ugh. I hate adolescents. Turning 18 two weeks ago = the best moment in my life.

Nah. I just hate the mass majority of adolescents which are the exact way the OP describes. Hah! But if you really think about it, most adults aren't that different, except that the love of wild parties and/or booze gets transferred to something/someone else.

 

[nexion]

What this thread needs is a little Devil's advocate. Why do you all just take it for granted that adolescents do not value intelligence? Do you recall how much esteem you had for the kid in school that knew the most about Star Wars, dinosaurs, or GI Joes? Perhaps intelligence is just valued on a different level as we progress through different stages of maturity.

Keyword there. We're all INTP's. I am still technically adolescent, I suppose, and the inconceivable shallowness of my peers is utterly stunning. But, like I said, I don't see qualities too different in adults... I think people say things about adolescents solely because of their age, while an adult is expected to or has the perception of putting more value in intellect or knowledge. How sad. Wonder how that came about?

 

[eccentriceclectic]

Comon guys - let's stop with the stereotypes...adolescents are people. We were all young at some point. Some of us are still "adolescents". I don't see the point in being so condescending. Growing up sucks. I would think INTPs would know this better than anyone. When you haven't had the time or resources to seek knowledge, you may not put value in it yet or actively try to attain it. Maybe you just want to fit in because that's what success seems to mean in life at that point. Stop being so judgmental. Being older doesn't make us better...simply more informed and more sure of who we are. I can hardly blame younger people for being young.

 

[Dormouse]

Why assume that partying and adopting social norms is completely at odds with having a seperate, inner intellectual life? People are full of contradictions as is, and most adolescents feel more trapped by circumstance than they would as adults. Confined as we are to one social network, one home, it makes sense to adapt by going with the flow and making allies. Plus, some people actually enjoy it.

Anyhow, my point is, single any teen out and you'll find they're full of 'deep' thoughts on purpose and the future and all that jazz. It's weird, but someone can totally love rocking out to lady gaga but still carry a conversation on the origins of the solar system.

 

[FabricatedSerenity]

I love narrow minded value systems.

 

[shoeless]

Why assume that partying and adopting social norms is completely at odds with having a seperate, inner intellectual life? People are full of contradictions as is, and most adolescents feel more trapped by circumstance than they would as adults. Confined as we are to one social network, one home, it makes sense to adapt by going with the flow and making allies. Plus, some people actually enjoy it.

Anyhow, my point is, single any teen out and you'll find they're full of 'deep' thoughts on purpose and the future and all that jazz. It's weird, but someone can totally love rocking out to lady gaga but still carry a conversation on the origins of the solar system.

basically, all of this, and a bag of chips.

 

[The Gopher]

Yeah well I am an Australian/British adolescent and I fit the stereotype laid-back and casual while stunningly intelligent So right I guess all the partying is a way of trying not to think? As you start thinking properly around this age (if you are right or not is another matter) But thinking in general is quite annoying.
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[cheese]

Why assume that partying and adopting social norms is completely at odds with having a seperate, inner intellectual life? People are full of contradictions as is, and most adolescents feel more trapped by circumstance than they would as adults. Confined as we are to one social network, one home, it makes sense to adapt by going with the flow and making allies. Plus, some people actually enjoy it.

Anyhow, my point is, single any teen out and you'll find they're full of 'deep' thoughts on purpose and the future and all that jazz. It's weird, but someone can totally love rocking out to lady gaga but still carry a conversation on the origins of the solar system.

I hate people like this! Spoiling our market value!

SEPARATE SEPARATE SEPARATE

('seperate' makes more sense to me, but there's probably some brilliant etymological reason for the proper spelling.)

 

[dark]

Why assume that partying and adopting social norms is completely at odds with having a seperate, inner intellectual life? People are full of contradictions as is, and most adolescents feel more trapped by circumstance than they would as adults. Confined as we are to one social network, one home, it makes sense to adapt by going with the flow and making allies. Plus, some people actually enjoy it.

Anyhow, my point is, single any teen out and you'll find they're full of 'deep' thoughts on purpose and the future and all that jazz. It's weird, but someone can totally love rocking out to lady gaga but still carry a conversation on the origins of the solar system.

The last part I disagree with. Also not to long ago, I was in high school, I never went to parties or anything, probably because I live in a stagnate place, but things like that didn't matter to me. They still don't a couple years later. I am happy learning things, I feel alone in huge crowds of people, probably more alone than I do when alone, went to one party, it sucked, I spent my entire time outside talking about random speculations to an introverted friend. But most people go to parties or the likes because well, I have no clue. I refuse to go to parties in college, really hated turning down the female invites, but I would go do my own thing, start my own thing with other people, random people, guess it comes from the ENTP unwillingness to join or whatever. Yada yada yada. Being adolescent was boring, becoming and adult is boring, so I don't think about either, I keep to my social experiements, which keep me going for now. Off subject again, is is bad that I see almost all my relationships as experiements? I react certain ways around certain people to see how they react to it and try to guess their motives and understand how they operate? They aren't really people, kind of a game a new friend of mine introduced me to: I am the main character and everyone else are NPCs, and you have to be dedicated to make you seem like the MC and everyone else NPCs it was fun to do in class.

 

[gruesomebrat]

We're all INTP's. I am still technically adolescent, I suppose, and the inconceivable shallowness of my peers is utterly stunning. But, like I said, I don't see qualities too different in adults... I think people say things about adolescents solely because of their age, while an adult is expected to or has the perception of putting more value in intellect or knowledge. How sad. Wonder how that came about?

Couldn't agree more. I, too, am just out of adolescence, and have never been much of one to socialize with my own age group because they are SO shallow. Case in point, I have friends come to me to ask for advice on their relationships, some of which are abusive. I tell those friends nothing more than common sense ('Get out of the abusive relationship.') and am usually met with resistance to that train of thought. They are so caught up in the pursuit of the appearance of being in a positive relationship, that they can't fathom being outside of that.

This is just one example, of course, but the point is that while most teenagers are incredibly shallow, INTP adolescents are really not that much different from INTP adults. It also explains why you often find us gravitating towards older friends (in some cases, friends who are twice our age). Adult friends tend to be much more intellectually stimulating, and have, for the most part, left behind the shallowness of youth.

 

[snafupants]

Adolescent America!

 

[poppi]

BLAH I party and do all that "adolescent" stuff like drugs and sex, and my brain is chalk full of philosophical thought! I hate to boast, but I'm at the top of my classes as well. It's almost like if you're intellectual enough you'll realize that its important to stop thinking so much sometimes and just be human and indulge in your ID's desires. Why not? Why try and fight human instinct. Who's to say its better to be intellectual than instinctive and pleasure driven, seriously f*ck it we should just live how we want

 

[SQ_Minion]

BLAH I party and do all that "adolescent" stuff like drugs and sex, and my brain is chalk full of philosophical thought! I hate to boast, but I'm at the top of my classes as well. It's almost like if you're intellectual enough you'll realize that its important to stop thinking so much sometimes and just be human and indulge in your ID's desires. Why not? Why try and fight human instinct. Who's to say its better to be intellectual than instinctive and pleasure driven, seriously f*ck it we should just live how we want

So have you considered any schools of thought other than Cyrenaicism?

 

[poppi]

So have you considered any schools of thought other than Cyrenaicism?

ah yes. Good point. But like I said we should do what we want which implies anything that is satisfying, not just pleasurable. I just know thats what I want mainly in life anyway, though I understand that not everyone is this way. Its just irritating to me when people believe that someone who seeks pleasure is always shallow. Its kind of a lame link.

 

[nexion]

BLAH I party and do all that "adolescent" stuff like drugs and sex, and my brain is chalk full of philosophical thought! I hate to boast, but I'm at the top of my classes as well. It's almost like if you're intellectual enough you'll realize that its important to stop thinking so much sometimes and just be human and indulge in your ID's desires. Why not? Why try and fight human instinct. Who's to say its better to be intellectual than instinctive and pleasure driven, seriously f*ck it we should just live how we want

I disagree.

But it's really a personal issue. I try to suppress my basic instincts and desires as much as possible, and am planning to go through my entire life unmarried and still a virgin, and without ever intentionally having any drugs or alcohol in my body. That for me would constitute a life worth living. I would rather indulge in far more useful and valuable things than simple temporary pleasures. But that's just me.

Just so you know, I'm not putting down what you value, merely portraying my subjective opinion. I realize that everyone believes different things, and you are entitled to your beliefs.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

BLAH I party and do all that "adolescent" stuff like drugs and sex, and my brain is chalk full of philosophical thought! I hate to boast, but I'm at the top of my classes as well. It's almost like if you're intellectual enough you'll realize that its important to stop thinking so much sometimes and just be human and indulge in your ID's desires. Why not? Why try and fight human instinct. Who's to say its better to be intellectual than instinctive and pleasure driven, seriously f*ck it we should just live how we want

I like your thinking. I engaged in similar activities during my adolescent years.

 

[Fukyo]

Why assume that partying and adopting social norms is completely at odds with having a seperate, inner intellectual life? People are full of contradictions as is, and most adolescents feel more trapped by circumstance than they would as adults. Confined as we are to one social network, one home, it makes sense to adapt by going with the flow and making allies. Plus, some people actually enjoy it.

Anyhow, my point is, single any teen out and you'll find they're full of 'deep' thoughts on purpose and the future and all that jazz. It's weird, but someone can totally love rocking out to lady gaga but still carry a conversation on the origins of the solar system.

I've found that this is very common with ENXXs.

Who would have thought that ENFJ douchebag gets all spiritual and philosophical when she whips out her Ni...

BLAH I party and do all that "adolescent" stuff like drugs and sex, and my brain is chalk full of philosophical thought! I hate to boast, but I'm at the top of my classes as well. It's almost like if you're intellectual enough you'll realize that its important to stop thinking so much sometimes and just be human and indulge in your ID's desires. Why not? Why try and fight human instinct. Who's to say its better to be intellectual than instinctive and pleasure driven, seriously f*ck it we should just live how we want

You have to understand this forum suffers from a very deeply rooted case of cynicism.

 

[Words]

Well, in a way, the only goal for us is still some form of pleasure, whether it be moral-related, financial-related, or sense-related. Even to reach something far from the moment(e.g. ambition to rule the world) is motivated by a "pleasure". My point is that I think pleasure exists in a more universal dimension; only, complexity determines whether a pleasure is "meaningful" or "shallow".

 

[Dimensional Transition]

I am an adolescent, and I WISH I could enjoy partying and such. All I get from doing adolescent-like things are panic attacks. I can't drink, I can't smoke, I can't party. Everything scares me. I'd rather think of theories and analyze things...

 

[nexion]

Well, in a way, the only goal for us is still some form of pleasure, whether it be moral-related, financial-related, or sense-related. Even to reach something far from the moment(e.g. ambition to rule the world) is motivated by a "pleasure". My point is that I think pleasure exists in a more universal dimension; only, complexity determines whether a pleasure is "meaningful" or "shallow".

Where is the line between "complex" and "simple"? They are arbitrary distinctions.

 

[Words]

Where is the line between "complex" and "simple"? They are arbitrary distinctions.

Well, by simple, I mean 1:1 connections. By complex, I mean 1:1 + X connections, wherein X is a positive number. Depth is a matter of how many connections are made.

True, something like quantum mechanics maybe difficult for some but easy for others. But is something like needing to eat because you're hungry complex to anyone? Subjectivity can only go so far. The idea that "the greater the connections, the more complex it is" is true.

Nevertheless, my original point was something else and it did not have to rely on an objective definition of "depth".

 

[Stoic Beverage]

I'm 14, but I completely agree. Not to say I'm exempt, of course. Every day I look at the people around me and think they're a bunch of animals. I then think how much higher I am intellectually then they are. Then, the next day, I look at the stupid, immature things I did the day before, and I realize that this time is it. Now I'm mature. Until the next day.
I really ought to try not to look down my nose at people so much... But they make it so easy. Oh, well.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I disagree.

But it's really a personal issue. I try to suppress my basic instincts and desires as much as possible, and am planning to go through my entire life unmarried and still a virgin, and without ever intentionally having any drugs or alcohol in my body. That for me would constitute a life worth living. I would rather indulge in far more useful and valuable things than simple temporary pleasures. But that's just me.

I really do respect your values, but may I ask why you have chosen this path? What 'useful and valuable' things do you consider non-temporary, or relatively longer than what you consider temporary?

I am an adolescent, and I WISH I could enjoy partying and such. All I get from doing adolescent-like things are panic attacks. I can't drink, I can't smoke, I can't party. Everything scares me. I'd rather think of theories and analyze things...

Go for it man. Trust me, as an INTP you will have a strong will against things you know you shouldn't be into.

I'm 14, but I completely agree. Not to say I'm exempt, of course. Every day I look at the people around me and think they're a bunch of animals. I then think how much higher I am intellectually then they are. Then, the next day, I look at the stupid, immature things I did the day before, and I realize that this time is it. Now I'm mature. Until the next day.
I really ought to try not to look down my nose at people so much... But they make it so easy. Oh, well.

Man, they're getting younger every year. I wonder what it's like to know about MBTI at this age. I wish I knew Socionics or at least MBTI in high school....I'd be so much happier..

 

[Stoic Beverage]

Man, they're getting younger every year. I wonder what it's like to know about MBTI at this age. I wish I knew Socionics or at least MBTI in high school....I'd be so much happier..

Actually, you might be surprised. It doesn't help all that much. All I've come to realize is just how appallingly different I am from everyone else, and how ridiculously difficult it is to find someone of the same mind. However, discovering MBTI did lead me to INTP (or similar) meeting grounds like this forum, and they are a haven from the sheer levels of stupid radiating from my peers.