All smokers are old or stupid?

[Hadoblado]

Smoking costs money and is bad for you. Somehow, this world has produced people that will pay exuberant amounts for cancer. My understanding of this was that people start smoking because they feel socially pressured into it, and that the only adjustment I should make to my impression of a person when I find that they smoke is that they were at some point in their life so concerned about the way they appear to others that they decided to receive cancer in return for their health and wealth.

My J friend recently made the claim that all smokers are either stupid or old. I don't smoke, but I understand that there are reasons for smoking the initial cigarettes that get you hooked for life. The thing is, I would think that anyone who knows what smoking does to them would need to be incredibly unanalytical to except the terms of accepting cigarettes.

A perfect counter example to my presumptions would be a youngish INTP that smokes and has been exposed to enough information beforehand to know what they were signing up for. Any smoker INTPs in here? Wanna tell me what made you smoke?

This doesn't read as well as it did in my head... Oh well, let's just roll with it for now.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I have a cigar every now and then. Why? Why not? My choice.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I have a cigar every now and then. Why? Why not? My choice.

"My choice" = very unanalytical reasoning.

I'll smoke a bit when I go out drinking. It tends to make the experience more enjoyable. Anecdotal evidence plus personal experience suggests that this method is not addicting - I don't ever buy my own. So as I see it, it is bad iff drinking is. I'm analytical (or "hesitant") enough to know that smoking regularly is not going to be worth it.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Many of my consumptive habits are based on the same reasoning. On a whim.

People are well of aware of dangers of smoking so why do they choose to do so? I have no idea.

---

I have a small thing for women who smoke.

 

[Minuend]

Stuff are rarely that simple.

Peer pressure is a very strong force, we just can't feel it the same way as a venomous viper bite. After you're hooked, getting off nicotine is difficult. Hey! I can adjust my writing window! When did this happen! Oh, that sure is convenient!! Just drinking coffee for a while helped me understand this craving. It's far from that strong, but still. Makes me kinda worried I should end up addicted to something, I don't even trust coffee to much because of it. But the effect it gives is rather helpful at times. There's polonium in cigarettes. Actually, I am fairly certain that nicotine is just supposed to make people consume more radioactivity to form a new army of teenage mutant ninja turtles.

 

[Words]

Stuff are rarely that simple.

I recommend this principle when dealing with perspectives, contexts, and/or people. We have a habit of simplifying things. Reality is more complicated than we think.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

People are well of aware of dangers of smoking so why do they choose to do so? I have no idea.

---

I have a small thing for women who smoke.

nuff said

 

[The Gopher]

Somehow I could just tell it was a J personality. Don't know what gave it away... That said I don't smoke but that's because I am asthmatic. (and to go off the subject) It's a great way to get out of smoking marijuana, tell people you have asthma. Funnily enough is some cases it actually helps but nobody realises that.

 

[boondockbabe]

I started smoking cigaretts when I was seventeen. It is one of the stupidest things I ever did in my life. I have tried to quit many times many different ways. I hope to oneday be able to drop this nasty stinky habit. But in the meantime I smoke between 1/2 to a pack a day.
When I was in school it was socially acceptable to smoke cigaretts. And peer pressure is a bitch for a person who feels like an outsider and wants to fit in.

 

[Cavallier]

I'm not a smoker but I can bet a lot of people started smoking not because their friends pressured them into it but because they watched their parents smoke. Mom/dad comes home and has had a really hard day. She/he lights one up and visibly relaxes. They are calmed and seem happier. Good stuff right? Plus the ease of access for a kid whose parent smokes makes it hard to not at least try a couple at some point. I thought my grandmother looked really sophisticated when she smoked so I stole a few cigs and tried them out when I was 13. I didn't like them much but it's easy to see how people can get addicted to them. Every once in a while I find I want a cigarette. I want something that's both ritualistically calming and chemically calming. That's a powerful draw and to think we are just talking about nicotine right now. We haven't even touched upon THC. Though weed supposedly isn't as addictive as nicotine I still find it hard to believe that it's not at least very easy to form a hard to break habit for smoking weed. However, that's a different discussion entirely.

 

[Hadoblado]

I can understand smoking weed as it has benefits. I can understand someone wanting to fit in so they smoke. I guess I just wanted to know if there was anyone who didn't care about fitting in who smoked, and if so, for what reason? I do smoke sometimes when I go drinking (when I tend to care more about putting on a show of sociability, also: see stupid), though I never have more than one and never buy them myself.

@words and minuend: We do like simplifying don't we? I guess this thread was just probing for how far I can simplify smoker behaviour.

 

[pjoa09]

euphoria.

nuff said.

I don't smoke but I tend to do risky things that are very dangerous and I know someday I will run out of luck but damn. Can't stop it.

I have smoked cigs and weed but I think cigs are better they make you feel so light. You feel like your problems just came out of your body.

But it isnt enough for me to pick it up at all.

 

[A22]

People know cigarretes are bad for their health. The same way people know drinking too much is bad for their liver and eating too much sugar is bad for their heart. And they do it anyway because it makes them feel good. I don't think that's stupid. You may call it careless but if you start caring too much you'll end up having no fun.

 

[darude11]

they are stupid... I have had smokers in class since elementary school... and - to be honest - they have always had the worst grades in class (and were shortest too)

 

[Puffy]

I think I'd apply what a few people have said to some of my habits. For example, it's not excessive but I finish nearly every day with a pint of beer or cider. Not because I'm thinking 'it's bad for me, let's drink' (though drinking small amounts is sometimes good for you) but because as Cavallier said, I grew up watching my Dad and Grandad drink the same everyday and it gave a visual impression: they'd be in better moods. Even if I've had a rubbish day one pint ritualistically puts me in a better mood and makes me more sociable. I'd imagine it's the same with cigarettes (just that most have more than one a day.)

FYI: My uncle is diving from cancer of the liver because of drinking, while I'm very sorry for him this doesn't really affect my personal views on drinking (excessive, yes moderate, no.) It's the same with me using maybe a bit too much salt on meals. I do it because I like it, it makes me happier, which in turn makes me more productive, etc.

 

[shoeless]

smoking calms me down during bouts of anxiousness, which i have frequently, being an anxiety-prone person. i originally became addicted, however, because in germany, basically everyone smokes weed with tobacco, and after a while you become addicted to the tobacco without even knowing it. but either way, it was never about fitting in for me; the weed was about experience, the cigarettes are about unwinding. i want to quit soon because i am young and i don't want to completely destroy myself just yet, but it is difficult when you are surrounded constantly by people who smoke.

we're not stupid. just misguided.

 

[snafupants]

Some highly intelligent people have insight into everything but their own situation.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

I'm a raging second hand smoker, I love the smell and aesthetic. Growing up I only knew a scant few adults who didn't smoke. However, like alcohol I generally avoid it because I know I'd get addicted fairly easily. (I don't get hangovers and have a massive natural tolerance given my size, gender and the low frequency of when I drink, alcoholism is in my blood) It's bad enough that people are almost universally addicted to high fructose corn syrup and to lesser extent caffeine.

Smoking is one of many social and cultural phenomena with no immediate rational benefit, but have become associated with good things even if they are in fact harmful. If you think you have no addictions, no compulsive behaviors reinforced by authority figures, advertising or society at large, then you are delusional. Faulting others for their addictions, but not yourself is a bit hypocritical no?

Some highly intelligent people have insight into everything but their own situation.

That is my favorite thing I've ever seen you say.

 

[Minamimoto]

I'm a raging second hand smoker, I love the smell and aesthetic. Growing up I only knew a scant few adults who didn't smoke. However, like alcohol I generally avoid it because I know I'd get addicted fairly easily. (I don't get hangovers and have a massive natural tolerance given my size, gender and the low frequency of when I drink, alcoholism is in my blood) It's bad enough that people are almost universally addicted to high fructose corn syrup and to lesser extent caffeine.

Smoking is one of many social and cultural phenomena with no immediate rational benefit, but have become associated with good things even if they are in fact harmful. If you think you have no addictions, no compulsive behaviors reinforced by authority figures, advertising or society at large, then you are delusional. Faulting others for their addictions, but not yourself is a bit hypocritical no?



That is my favorite thing I've ever seen you say.

Well said. Being 16, I've managed to dodge the smoking/alcohol bullets thus far, but damn. Can't get enough of that corn syrup/caffeine/bright pixels damaging my vision and giving me migraines 10 hours a day.

 

[xbox]

never smoked before. and decided to cut alcohol out of my life awhile ago, though I do like to talk about trying it again, its just my unconscious voice, but the truth is, I'm too lazy to go and get it. For myself, i don't appreciate the 'drinking socially' bit, because although it has made socializing easy, it's still fake, and at the end of the day I hate myself for it. Maybe its not the case for others, and that's cool, but those are reasonings for myself to stay away from it. And now that I've adopted a physically active lifestyle, I'm working on cutting out things from my diet that I don't need. For example, I really want that donut sitting there on the counter of my kitchen, but Im not even gonna touch it. So far, my only weakness is caffeine, and I've managed to cut it down to 1 cup a day. I dislike the thought of becoming a mindless zombie slave to something.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Well said. Being 16, I've managed to dodge the smoking/alcohol bullets thus far, but damn. Can't get enough of that corn syrup/caffeine/bright pixels damaging my vision and giving me migraines 10 hours a day.

Alcohol is fairly safe as long as you don't go to the point of irresponsible drunkenness all the time and do it to drink away your problems.. Try drinking a few beers sometime at a party. Makes it so much better, especially for introverts.

As for smoking... I don't smoke cigarettes. I smoke hookah occasionally. Seeing smoke coming out of your mouth and feeling it pass through your lungs is incredibly fun. And it just gives me this... ancient ritual feeling. It's really bonding to smoke with a few friends for some reason. I think/hope I don't smoke nearly often enough to make it really damaging or addictive though.

Caffeine doesn't do that much, I don't get why it's so popular. It doesn't keep me that much awake, just makes me anxious without reason if I take too much. Corn syrup is non-existant in Europe pretty much. Video games are really boring to me...

 

[Minamimoto]

Alcohol is fairly safe as long as you don't go to the point of irresponsible drunkenness all the time and do it to drink away your problems.. Try drinking a few beers sometime at a party. Makes it so much better, especially for introverts.

As for smoking... I don't smoke cigarettes. I smoke hookah occasionally. Seeing smoke coming out of your mouth and feeling it pass through your lungs is incredibly fun. And it just gives me this... ancient ritual feeling. It's really bonding to smoke with a few friends for some reason. I think/hope I don't smoke nearly often enough to make it really damaging or addictive though.

Caffeine doesn't do that much, I don't get why it's so popular. It doesn't keep me that much awake, just makes me anxious without reason if I take too much. Corn syrup is non-existant in Europe pretty much. Video games are really boring to me...

I don't consume caffeine nearly as much as I used to. At one time, it did seem to help me with my deficit of focus, but I seem to have developed a tolerance. I tend to enjoy strategy video games, but lately, I've moved away from them greatly and more toward socializing online.

 

[Vrecknidj]

For a great many people, smoking, drinking, eating, exercise, sex, etc., are forms of self-medication. Even if they don't realize it, it's a form of self-medication.

People do all kinds of things for all kinds of reasons. Many times there are causes that are, as it were, beneath the surface, and many of these are related to family-of-origin issues.

I don't smoke. I can't stand the smell, being around tobacco smoke for very long makes me nauseous, and I generally find the behavior off-putting and rude. That said, I understand comfort, even when comfort isn't healthy (I'll have too much chocolate from time to time, for instance), so I understand that some people engage in behaviors that I disapprove of or don't like. But I try not to be judgmental. Usually, being judgmental doesn't help.

Dave

 

[TylerRDA]

Self-medication for ADD/ADHD

 

[Ex-User (4771)]

Out of curiosity Minamimoto how much pop do you drink? As a gamer myself i average between 2 and 4 liters of pepsi max a day, totaling about 600 - 770 mg of caffeine a day

 

[Deridaburi]

It was chewing tobacco for me. The reason for starting was less peer pressure and more the will to belong. It did help me fit in, even if it was illegitimate. It was an excuse to be friends with people one normally wouldn't through a common practice.

Obviously it was not worth it, the effect still shows on my gums. It did give me more perspective when I learned what addiction is like. I used to laugh at people who couldn't quit when I was young. I thought that my superior willpower could overcome any addiction and that those people were simply weak willed. Hah, boy was I wrong.

 

[Minuend]

they are stupid... I have had smokers in class since elementary school... and - to be honest - they have always had the worst grades in class (and were shortest too)

What makes you assume grades represent the mental capabilities of individuals?

 

[shoeless]

What makes you assume grades represent the mental capabilities of individuals?

+1

 

[Dimensional Transition]

I don't consume caffeine nearly as much as I used to. At one time, it did seem to help me with my deficit of focus, but I seem to have developed a tolerance. I tend to enjoy strategy video games, but lately, I've moved away from them greatly and more toward socializing online.

Yeah, tolerance to caffeine must be it for me too.
I was a huge video game-fan as well from 6-12 or something, now I occasionally just play FPS, which have been becoming increasingly boring over time. The makers of those games never seem to be able to add something truly new.

 

[boondockbabe]

I don't consume caffeine nearly as much as I used to. At one time, it did seem to help me with my deficit of focus, but I seem to have developed a tolerance. I tend to enjoy strategy video games, but lately, I've moved away from them greatly and more toward socializing online.

It seems like caffiene makes me manic and affects the way I percieve things terribly. I get oversensitve and over-emotional sometimes. It's the damn drug I can't seem to quit. I do usually only consume coffie. I used to drink pepsi by the 12pk.

I still do some gaming, just less. I usually game and surf the forum at the same time. bouncing back and forth between games.

 

[Trebuchet]

Well said. Being 16, I've managed to dodge the smoking/alcohol bullets thus far, but damn. Can't get enough of that corn syrup/caffeine/bright pixels damaging my vision and giving me migraines 10 hours a day.

You have a lot of perspective. Also, that's funny and awful at the same time.

I have never smoked anything, and I really hate it when anyone smokes around me. It was easy to avoid, because I live in California which has relatively little smoking. (We have fires, instead.)

Yes, smoking damages your body, it smells terrible to everyone around you, and second-hand smoke is harmful. I would never endorse anyone using it.

However, the brain has receptors for nicotine. It also stimulates release of endorphins which relieve pain and stress, the neurotransmitters acetylcholine, dopamine, and glutamate, which regulate your blood sugar, memory, learning, and peace of mind, and stimulates the reward pathways of your brain. I can't say that anyone who seeks these things is automatically stupid.

Also, tabacco marketers are experienced, well funded, and creative. Just because some people haven't fallen prey to them doesn't mean everyone can avoid it. People have different lives and circumstances, and I can't agree with a blanket judgment that they are all stupid.

Opposing smoking does make sense, socially. It harms the health of the society, at a cost to everyone. It stinks, it is an expensive habit, and at least a third of the litter in the world is cigarette butts.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

I have never smoked anything, and I really hate it when anyone smokes around me. It was easy to avoid, because I live in California which has relatively little smoking. (We have fires, instead.)

What about cannabis, then?
Isn't weed really popular in California?

 

[Trebuchet]

What about cannabis, then?
Isn't weed really popular in California?

Yes, I think it is popular here, but it is certainly not so popular that you find it everywhere. I wouldn't know where to get it, and I expect tobacco still wins here.

Really popular things in California include sitting in freeway traffic and cutting the school budget. Cannabis would be better.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Are you saying that a smoker cannot be both old and stupid?

 

[boondockbabe]

Yes, I think it is popular here, but it is certainly not so popular that you find it everywhere. I wouldn't know where to get it, and I expect tobacco still wins here.

Really popular things in California include sitting in freeway traffic and cutting the school budget. Cannabis would be better.

cannabis can be obtained throug getting a "perscription" for it. Usually the Dr. owns or is a shareholder in the "dispensery" usually located next door. Or that is the impression I get from High Times.

 

[shoeless]

Are you saying that a smoker cannot be both old and stupid?

my dad picked up smoking in his mid-50's.
i'd say he probably fits this bill.

also, i'd say it'd probably incredibly easy to find weed where you live, trebuchet. that's how it usually is in most places, you just have to know who to ask.

 

[Architectonic]

People smoke because they find themselves boring. That doesn't necessarily correlate with age or stupidity.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

So cancer does make you more interesting...

 

[Legion]

Evolutionarily speaking: yes, smokers are generally stupid, seeing as cancer doesn't usually help life expectancy. Then again, I consider most people to be stupid. Although there are always exceptions.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Evolutionarily speaking: yes, smokers are generally stupid, seeing as cancer doesn't usually help life expectancy. Then again, I consider most people to be stupid. Although there are always exceptions.

Nope. Most smokers don't die due to smoking related illnesses until long after their sexual maturation, giving them ample time to reproduce.

 

[Hadoblado]

Yeah I think Yeti has you on that one. I'd even go one further and say that smokers may even be selected for, given their ill gotten social standings.

I think Shoeless has given me a very good reason why someone can get addicted to smoking without being either

- stupid
- old
- a person who caves to social pressure

Having inadvertently smoked tobacco in your spin, the moment that you decide to start smoking tobacco is taken away from you. It's like it sneaks into your lungs to punish you for being a stoner 0_o

When I think about it, I have smoked a fair bit of tobacco in this way, and have been lucky enough not to become addicted.

 

[EditorOne]

"Alcohol is fairly safe as long as you don't go to the point of irresponsible drunkenness all the time and do it to drink away your problems."

OH! Now you tell me.

 

[Legion]

Nope. Most smokers don't die due to smoking related illnesses until long after their sexual maturation, giving them ample time to reproduce.

Touche. However, men at least can continue to have children until well into older age, meaning that non-smokers would potentially have the chance to have more children than smokers.

Not to mention the old saying: I don't have to outrun that bear. I just have to outrun you. heavy smoker + race to the death = evolutionary fail

lol

 

[SkyWalker]

beneficial?

chemical pleasure is not real pleasure, its fake, it doesnt give you long term benefits.

maybe stimulants (caffeine/nicotine/cocaine/amphetamine) can be temporarily beneficial, like against ADD/ADHD, in the moment of first use, but never long term, because the effect quickly cancels out by tolerance kicking in. no use for pumping that stuff around in your blood 24/7

same for alcohol, can maybe be temporarily beneficial for T-doms, to disengage from all that logical crap, so they can finally fuck. but again, never long term solution.

---

All sigarette/coffee/alcohol makers produce that stuff with the intent to addict you, because that is most profitable. Never do they intent it for you to use it temporarily, because that is less profitable.

All sigarette/coffee/alcohol makers/distributers give you that stuff in plenty because they don't care about you, they just want the money. It's a tool for them to bring themselves up in society. But they do not only bring themselves up, they also actively take you down. PROOF: They are already mega rich, so there is no way up anymore if you are on top, but they do continue to take you down even more. Thus they hate you. Think about it. You are their cattle, they abuse you, and you like it??

the big bosses that produce/distribute dont get high on their own supply, its a golden rule.
coffee makers dont drink coffee
tobacco makers dont smoke tobacco
alcohol brewers dont drink alcohol
novartis does not swallow ritalin

THINK ABOUT IT>you have to see it in the grand picture, who profits, who suffers.

 

[snafupants]

Yes, I think it is popular here, but it is certainly not so popular that you find it everywhere. I wouldn't know where to get it, and I expect tobacco still wins here.

Really popular things in California include sitting in freeway traffic and cutting the school budget. Cannabis would be better.

Doesn't southern California alone have over five thousand medical marijuana dispensaries? The cards to get in apparently aren't that hard to acquire either. There also seems to be no shortage of head shops. Where could you find marijuana? Have you walked out your front door recently?

 

[snafupants]

Out of curiosity Minamimoto how much pop do you drink? As a gamer myself i average between 2 and 4 liters of pepsi max a day, totaling about 600 - 770 mg of caffeine a day

If you're just going for the caffeine, opt for coffee. I actually prefer iced expresso (caffe americano) partly because of the high caffeine content. The sugar and carbonation and carbon dioxide and ph level and preservatives and color additives and calories and, well you get the picture, with soda make it an inefficient way to consume caffeine. Also, while I don't doubt that level of caffeine consumption on your part, you might want to take some breaks to decrease tolerance and dependence and withdrawal, and only use it a few times a week. You will probably enjoy it more when you do it that way and it won't screw as much with important neurotransmitters like adenosine and serotonin when you use it sporadically. Obviously, you can do whatever you please though, I just know too much soda makes me feel like crap: one man's panacea is another's poison.

 

[telepathink]

exactly, snafupants
couldn't put it better

 

[Trebuchet]

Doesn't southern California alone have over five thousand medical marijuana dispensaries? The cards to get in apparently aren't that hard to acquire either. There also seems to be no shortage of head shops. Where could you find marijuana? Have you walked out your front door recently?

Okay, let me clarify something. I have not made any effort to obtain cannabis. While I believe it should be legal, it isn't something I am interested in for myself. There might be a marijuana dispensary right next to the pizza place two blocks from where I live, and I just haven't seen it. I believe that if I tried, I could find weed, but I haven't, so I felt unqualified to discuss its availability or popularity.

And if there are 5000 dispensaries - I don't know the actual number - remember that California is a BIG state, and I live in one of the super-conservative areas surrounded by people who vote against it every time. The dispensaries may be clustered in the friendlier parts of my state.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Touche. However, men at least can continue to have children until well into older age, meaning that non-smokers would potentially have the chance to have more children than smokers.

Not to mention the old saying: I don't have to outrun that bear. I just have to outrun you. heavy smoker + race to the death = evolutionary fail

lol

If we're going to include factors like that, why don't we include factors like income? Smokers tend to have lower incomes than non-smokers, and lower-income families tend to have significantly more children than higher income families, so they're "winning" evolution regardless.

 

[SpaceYeti]

beneficial?

chemical pleasure is not real pleasure, its fake, it doesnt give you long term benefits.

maybe stimulants (caffeine/nicotine/cocaine/amphetamine) can be temporarily beneficial, like against ADD/ADHD, in the moment of first use, but never long term, because the effect quickly cancels out by tolerance kicking in. no use for pumping that stuff around in your blood 24/7

same for alcohol, can maybe be temporarily beneficial for T-doms, to disengage from all that logical crap, so they can finally fuck. but again, never long term solution.

---

All sigarette/coffee/alcohol makers produce that stuff with the intent to addict you, because that is most profitable. Never do they intent it for you to use it temporarily, because that is less profitable.

All sigarette/coffee/alcohol makers/distributers give you that stuff in plenty because they don't care about you, they just want the money. It's a tool for them to bring themselves up in society. But they do not only bring themselves up, they also actively take you down. PROOF: They are already mega rich, so there is no way up anymore if you are on top, but they do continue to take you down even more. Thus they hate you. Think about it. You are their cattle, they abuse you, and you like it??

the big bosses that produce/distribute dont get high on their own supply, its a golden rule.
coffee makers dont drink coffee
tobacco makers dont smoke tobacco
alcohol brewers dont drink alcohol
novartis does not swallow ritalin

THINK ABOUT IT>you have to see it in the grand picture, who profits, who suffers.

Dude, we're walking bags of chemicals. Chemical pleasure is real pleasure. Just because it doesn't permanently make you happy doesn't mean anything, it doesn't make it "fake". And if we assume every manufacturer doesn't use their own product in those cases, so what? They don't need to.