Praise for INTP's from an ENTP

[briangriffin32]

Hi all:

ENTP here. I used to think I was an INTP, until I did some further research.

That being said, just wanted to praise the virtues of INTPs from an ENTP perspective.

Ahem....

1) Your ability to analyze something in great detail. I get too impatient with details, and distracted by "the big picture"

2) Your encyclopedic technical knowledge. Some of you can be like walking, talking tech manuals! I'm always more interested in analyzing/manipulating people (I do sales, and am a writer...so I guess that fits). Thus, I envy your more practical theories and problem-solving skills (and in my mind "practical theories" is not a contradiction).

3) Your ability to do things your way, with a seemingly cool indifference to what other people think about you.

4) Your incredible loyalty to your friends and your willingness to stand up for them, despite your normally quiet demeanor.

That being said, I've had at least three close INTP relationships in my life....

1) A roommate in college: I got fed up with him correcting everything I said, and he got fed up with my mood swings so he skidaddled. That being said, I was in a bad place during that time, so it's easy in retrospect to understand his point of view.

2) A fellow classmate/writing partner: He was kind of a downer and very sarcastic, but very friendly and loyal. A misanthrope with a heart of gold. Think Woody Allen. I think his writing was a little too "black". He always enjoyed writing stuff where everyone was screaming at each other. Another problem was his sometimes indifference to personal grooming hygene, but I still enjoyed his company regardless.

3) A fellow work colleague: We worked in different departments. Him in IT. Me in sales. He was the coolest guy I ever met. A genius with computers. He played hockey in high school. Awesome guitar skills. He was even in a death metal band. He seemed like friggin Buckaroo Banzai. The sarcasm and the misanthropy was still there, but I fell for him big time. Unfortunately he was married to another man. Still, after a while we'd flirt like crazy, sometimes unintentionally.

Ah well....To adjourn this potential 1st session of an ENTP + INTP alliance...

Is there anything INTP's admire or even envy about ENTPs? At the risk of sounding self-deprecating, I wonder what they get out of it. They seem so smart, and independent. What do they need ENTPs for?

 

[Moocow]

One of my best friends is an ENTP. He just does so many things, and has all these incredible stories of near death experiences, yet he always seems to keep a level head. Also he, despite the ENTP stereotypes, seems humble and courteous to people rather than rude, argumentative, or self centered.
What would we need ENTPs for? Well, my friend brings new things into my life every time I talk to him. Sometimes it's new music, new people who I often find easy to befriend, or new places to go. For an INTP the world can get very small, lonely, and routinized without people like ENTPs to liven things up.

The fact that our tastes are usually compatible makes the prospect of new endeavors more promising.

Plus, anyone who can understand and appreciate the insights of an INTP automatically has a place in our hearts. Having an audience for our revelations keeps us feeling like we're doing something worthwhile.

 

[AlisaD]

Hi all:

ENTP here. I used to think I was an INTP, until I did some further research.

That being said, just wanted to praise the virtues of INTPs from an ENTP perspective.

Ahem....

1) Your ability to analyze something in great detail. I get too impatient with details, and distracted by "the big picture"

2) Your encyclopedic technical knowledge. Some of you can be like walking, talking tech manuals! I'm always more interested in analyzing/manipulating people (I do sales, and am a writer...so I guess that fits). Thus, I envy your more practical theories and problem-solving skills (and in my mind "practical theories" is not a contradiction).

3) Your ability to do things your way, with a seemingly cool indifference to what other people think about you.

4) Your incredible loyalty to your friends and your willingness to stand up for them, despite your normally quiet demeanor.

Oh, don't stop there, keep'em comin'

What do they need ENTPs for?

To make us feel good about ourselves?

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Is there anything INTP's admire or even envy about ENTPs? At the risk of sounding self-deprecating, I wonder what they get out of it. They seem so smart, and independent. What do they need ENTPs for?

They seem to be an endless repertoire of energy. Clever, charming, and yet still rational. Extroverted intuitives are the only types that can draw me into reality and ENTPs are the only types that don't make me regret it.

I'm very fond of ENTPs. Though they tend to overestimate themselves and their influence; then becoming extremely depressive when impulsion inevitably backfires.


disclaimer: I don't put much stock into mbti theory, but the categories can be useful when talking about generalized populations.

 

[Smooch]

Of the people I've met that are ENTPs, I tend to have a love/hate relationship with them...

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Of the people I've met that are ENTPs, I tend to have a love/hate relationship with them...

Same. I love ENTPs, but I also get enough of the arrogance sometimes. Some ENTPs aren't arrogant at all, but it seems like it's something that's very common among them.

That being said, I'm extremely insecure, so it's probably just envy of their self-confidence from my side.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Is there anything INTP's admire or even envy about ENTPs? At the risk of sounding self-deprecating, I wonder what they get out of it. They seem so smart, and independent. What do they need ENTPs for?

I've only known one ENTP as a friend in highschool. Before I even knew about MBTI, I always enjoyed his philosophical rants that he would occasionally blog. I thought we were similar, although he was definitely more engaging and prone to sociability. We didn't hang out much, but the few times we did were like intellectual electrical currents passing through conductors. I was able to get out of my head for awhile. Great sense of humor too.

I'd say the greatest thing about an ENTP and INTP pair is that they can engage in similar spheres of interests without things getting too boring or weird. I suppose it's like a mutual outlet, although you may need to recharge once in a while.

 

[briangriffin32]

Same. I love ENTPs, but I also get enough of the arrogance sometimes. Some ENTPs aren't arrogant at all, but it seems like it's something that's very common among them.

That being said, I'm extremely insecure, so it's probably just envy of their self-confidence from my side.

I understand where you're coming from.

It's hard to see myself objectively, but a lot of people always judge as "arrogant" ENTP celebrities that I admire like Camille Paglia and Bill Maher and I wondered why people have that misconception.

Looking at them, it's not so much that they're arrogant, it's just that they love debating. Debating for me helps me come to a conclusion, because then the other person's view is put on the table and I feel more comfortable judging the pros and cons of an argument when everything is out in the open.

This is not unlike ESTPs, although ESTPs will argue with you by trying to intimidate you with threats if you don't agree. ENTPs rarely do this. They just want to see you can frame a good argument.

Strange as it may seem to INTPs on this forum, ENTPs will judge INTPs as arrogant. I think this is because of the "dissassociation" aspect that seems common among INTPs. INTPs are big believers in objectivity. Sometimes that quest for the ultimate truth leads to cynicism and nihilism because an absolute objectivity is hard to find.

ENTPs hope to find reason not through objectivity, but through who's the most persuasive arguer.

In other words, ENTPs can seem more like politicans or lawyers when it comes to framing an argument. INTPs come off more as scientists or scholars, i.e. "the old wise man" archetype.

The killer is when you combine the INTPs wisdom with a gawky boyish charm. Spider-Man comes immediately to mind.

 

[Moocow]

In other words, ENTPs can seem more like politicans or lawyers when it comes to framing an argument. INTPs come off more as scientists or scholars, i.e. "the old wise man" archetype.

I think this is a good observation, and probably a helpful way to tell the difference between the two. In my experience, ENTPs talk about things in a much more engaging way.

 

[Smooch]

Same. I love ENTPs, but I also get enough of the arrogance sometimes. Some ENTPs aren't arrogant at all, but it seems like it's something that's very common among them.

That being said, I'm extremely insecure, so it's probably just envy of their self-confidence from my side.

Yes they do come off as arrogant but that't not what bothers me.

Perhaps I'm just too sensitive but they seem to be fond of making cutting remarks.

 

[SkyWalker]

I am ENTP and I know that I can come off as arogant in some people's perception, I never intend to however and am quite humble. Those who really know me totally know i am not arrogant. Strangers who dont know/think/believe any ENTPs exist might really hate me.
Because we are addicted to the big picture, we dont take details seriously: we can sometimes just blurt out something, which can be stupid or arrogant sometimes if taken literally.
The thing is, ït is not arrogance or stupidity, and we dont think we are right, we just think you overlooked something and to engage you we would play as if we are right on the opposing side. However, we can also say the entire opposite thing if you overlooked that. Which we also do. We are just blurting out something and "testing the waters" to see what happens next ,in this way we intuitively-feel the outside world, this is the way our perception scans the environment. This is the way we get all info.
Once we have a set theory that works, then we wont do this blurting out anymore, we will tell what we know and why and it will make sense. However that is mixed with the blurting out of stupidity on other subjects on which we have no theory yet and are still discovering

Our Ne acts by itself as a reason for itself, Ne wants more info and will act instantly for that, even if it has to play a part that you hate or dont like, we dont mean harm, we just try to get the newest info that you dont even know yourself, that is our primary mission.



- ENTPs are eternal optimistic kids (perception first function)
- INTPs are eternal a-bit-pessimistic old-wise-men (judgement first function)

the mix would be ideal balance

 

[Minuend]

I haven't met many ENTPs, but arrogance isn't what bothers me. It's that I get this manipulative vibe from them, like they aren't being honest about themselves or their motives. I don't trust them. It's like they unknowingly betray your trust due to not thinking an impulse through.

 

[Cavallier]

^Just smack 'em around a little. They appreciate it.

They seem to be an endless repertoire of energy. Clever, charming, and yet still rational. Extroverted intuitives are the only types that can draw me into reality and ENTPs are the only types that don't make me regret it.

I'm very fond of ENTPs. Though they tend to overestimate themselves and their influence; then becoming extremely depressive when impulsion inevitably backfires.

This describes my ENTP father exactly. I enjoy being around a healthy ENTP because they keep the game going. ENTPs and INTPs compliment one another well.

 

[SkyWalker]

I haven't met many ENTPs, but arrogance isn't what bothers me. It's that I get this manipulative vibe from them, like they aren't being honest about themselves or their motives. I don't trust them. It's like they unknowingly betray your trust due to not thinking an impulse through.

you are so sensitive.

we can also repay for any loss btw

 

[digital angel]

Thank you.

 

[briangriffin32]

At my last job I met another ENTP salesman. We got along great, but for some reason the other sales guys didn't get along with him.

I think it was because he was a bit too slick and Jerry Maguire-ish, but in his mind he was just doing what he was supposed to...doing his job with passion and conviction.

I think that's how ENTPs see the world. It's like we're always acting, same as ESTPs, so that we can go about our business. INTPs are self-conscious too, but mainly because they know they have to act and they hate it. ENTPs feel comfortable with the act but uncomfortable being themselves.

That's why ENTPs feel driven to create such an iconic, over the top persona when in public. In private and among our nearest and dearest we can seem quite boring in contrast.

To use actors themselves as an example:

ENTP actors tend to be very over-the top.
i.e. Dustin Hoffman, Tom Cruise, William Shatner, Michael Richards (Kramer)

INTP actors tend to play themselves.
i.e. Woody Allen

The one thing I will warn INTPs about ENTPs is that we get bored very quickly, usually when someone's not paying attention to us. I will admit that sometimes ENTPs can even find other ENTPs exhausting because we demand so much attention from the other, and will spend all day one-upping each other.

That's why INTPs can seem refereshing. They can't help but be themselves and they know it

 

[Aramea]

It is hard to get my ENTP best friend and I apart when we start talking. I sometimes avoid her if I know I don't have much time because I know I will stay and talk too long. She has been good at making sure I don't become a permanent basement dweller although I am slowly losing that battle.

INTP's get bored quickly, too, especially with rote discussions/tasks. I enjoy hearing and doing many things the first time and very few things a second and beyond. I am very OK with people not paying attention to me and usually prefer it if they don't unless I am at a social function.

 

[SpaceYeti]

It is hard to get my ENTP best friend and I apart when we start talking. I sometimes avoid her if I know I don't have much time because I know I will stay and talk too long. She has been good at making sure I don't become a permanent basement dweller although I am slowly losing that battle.

INTP's get bored quickly, too, especially with rote discussions/tasks. I enjoy hearing and doing many things the first time and very few things a second and beyond. I am very OK with people not paying attention to me and usually prefer it if they don't unless I am at a social function.

My ENTP friend and I can talk for hours... which is a really long time to do nothing but just talk to a person! Talking gets boring pretty quickly, especially small talk. I suck at small talk.

Nobody gets bored of Portal!

 

[SkyWalker]

At my last job I met another ENTP salesman.

ENTPs at a sales job? That's odd, it seems too mundane/routine (unless you sell your own pilot project or something?)

 

[Aramea]

My ENTP friend and I can talk for hours... which is a really long time to do nothing but just talk to a person! Talking gets boring pretty quickly, especially small talk. I suck at small talk.

Nobody gets bored of Portal!

For me, it depends on the small talk. In social situations I have to flip on the social switch and that comes with a free small talk interpreter. As long as I grab the People magazine at the salon and watch "The Office" on NetFlix I can appear to be plugged into the mainstream. I did not get the upgrade that allows me to cheerfully and endlessly spell words for people and answer the same four questions over and over. The battery lasts about 4 hours or so before I start getting testy when asked meaningless questions that I don't feel like answering.

Does it ever bother anyone else that after spending an excruciating half hour talking about gibberish you get told that "you think too much" or "that's boring/bullshit" when it comes time to discuss what you've been up to in your spare time?

 

[Aramea]

ENTPs at a sales job? That's odd, it seems too mundane/routine (unless you sell your own pilot project or something?)

My ENTP friend is a sales/marketing person. She is very good at it. She is smart and funny and has a very large personality. She often has to dumb herself down, which is something that I find fairly hard to do. I would make a spectacular failure as a sales person.

 

[briangriffin32]

ENTPs at a sales job? That's odd, it seems too mundane/routine (unless you sell your own pilot project or something?)

It can be routine, especially in inside sales where you're cold calling all the time. Negotiating can be fun because it's another form of debate.

Depends on the people you're working with. At one job I had an ESTP sales manager and he was awesome at giving feedback. Very scary though.

Another job, I had an ISFJ sales manager and that was BRUTAL. I don't know what it is about ISFJ's but if they don't like you, they won't tell you why and just hold a grudge against you for no reason. They'll just go passive-aggressive and try to ignore you.

Maybe it's the same reason why INTPs find ENTPs problematic. Do ENTPs give off an air of arrogance without being aware?

I always thought of ENTPs as much geekier than INTPs. INTPs shyness makes them seem cooler and hard-to-get at times.

 

[Aramea]

My ENTP friend is cocky and very impressed with herself. It is the only thing that irritates me about her and I do have to take breaks from it. If she deigns to tell you "the best" way to do something and you do something else there is a distinct feeling that she thinks you are an idiot. I, of course, will often do something different so as not to feed her fantasy that she is the only person in the entire world that knows "the best" way. Childish, I know, but I am all over these boards how socially inept I can be and I get sick of hearing about her "high standards".

Unfortunately, she is right often enough to earn her arrogance and I am mature enough to acknowledge it. She is a great person and this is not a big deal. She is an encyclopedia of "so if I want to sell ice to Eskimos, how would I go about doing that?).

 

[Meer]

combine the INTPs wisdom with a gawky boyish charm.

Hey, that's me!

I think it would be nice to have an ENTP friend to do brash, impulsive things with, like COCAINE.

 

[Litawyn]

They seem to be an endless repertoire of energy.

What the heck is an "endless repertoire of energy." ?

Did you mean reservoir? Just curious. Repertoire makes no sense in that context.


J

 

[SpaceYeti]

For me, it depends on the small talk. In social situations I have to flip on the social switch and that comes with a free small talk interpreter. As long as I grab the People magazine at the salon and watch "The Office" on NetFlix I can appear to be plugged into the mainstream. I did not get the upgrade that allows me to cheerfully and endlessly spell words for people and answer the same four questions over and over. The battery lasts about 4 hours or so before I start getting testy when asked meaningless questions that I don't feel like answering.

Does it ever bother anyone else that after spending an excruciating half hour talking about gibberish you get told that "you think too much" or "that's boring/bullshit" when it comes time to discuss what you've been up to in your spare time?

I can't stand People magazine, or Us Weekly, or anything of that sort. I simply don't care about anything those magazines say. Office is hilarious, however. I can, however, spell words all day. People often ask me if they've spelled something right.

I never get told I think too much or that my hobbies are boring or bullshit, but I do have people tell me to "stop talking like that. The Army is designed for people with an 8th grade education", but it usually takes me a minute to figure out they said it because I said something "too smart". Which is odd, I usually get irritated when people don't want to "dumb down" what they're saying. The point of talking is to communicate, so it's best to speak in a way that people understand you. I have no problem rewording what I said, as the problem is usually that that person simply didn't know one of the words I used. Hey, one of my pass-times when bored in high school was reading the dictionary. I find it hard to hold not doing so against someone. The dictionary's boring.

 

[dark]

I am an ENTP, currently made an INTP friend, so far, I have dragged him to 4 events at the university. He is like a walking reference book. If I can get him talking when we meet people, he can go on for a long time until the "data" has been extinguished. Also it seems people are more likely to approach myself as to compared to an INTP, I guess because you INTPs are in your head while ENTPs are always smiling because there is ALWAYS something that humors me about everything. I've had countless females speak to me so far within the period of 4 hours, most of them seem to be Fe dominate, which for some reason I find myself attracted to.

The INTP friend I made would be completely fine to stay in his room all day by himself, but he seems to have a lot of fun at these places even though his first thoughts about them always seem to be that the event sucks and he doesn't want to be there haha. Tonight we spent about 2 hours talking about random things with another person that we accidentally met because I decided to take off running down these concrete things, it was a lot of fun, imagine benches spread apart like 8 feet dropping down into an auditorium type thing, I am thinking it is something like an amphitheater, but not entirely sure.

Pretty much, ENTPs help INTPs break out of their shell and INTPs are an endless wave of information that ENTPs feed off of. So it seems like a benefit for both people.

 

[Aramea]

I can't stand People magazine, or Us Weekly, or anything of that sort. I simply don't care about anything those magazines say. Office is hilarious, however. I can, however, spell words all day. People often ask me if they've spelled something right.

I never get told I think too much or that my hobbies are boring or bullshit, but I do have people tell me to "stop talking like that. The Army is designed for people with an 8th grade education", but it usually takes me a minute to figure out they said it because I said something "too smart". Which is odd, I usually get irritated when people don't want to "dumb down" what they're saying. The point of talking is to communicate, so it's best to speak in a way that people understand you. I have no problem rewording what I said, as the problem is usually that that person simply didn't know one of the words I used. Hey, one of my pass-times when bored in high school was reading the dictionary. I find it hard to hold not doing so against someone. The dictionary's boring.

Ah, you got the upgrade then .

If you recall, I remarked on your women's nails thread that I go every few weeks to get my nails done so I don't look like I ran my cuticles over a cheese grater. This appointment lasts around an hour. Stacks of cheesy magazines are in abundance and I can choose People, Us or Car and Driver. I am incapable of planning ahead for these visits so I make use of what's on hand. I have to read so that the nail girl will be less likely to try to talk to me. You are right that I could go my entire life without knowing ANYTHING contained within any magazine at the nail salon, but I doubt I would learn much from "Nancy" while she does my nails.

I have often wondered how you deal with military types. An intelligent ENTJ is a thing of beauty rarely seen in the wild. That is, until they turn on you. A dumb ESTJ might short your circuits. I did watch the Navy Seals show (Military Channel I think) that chronicled the experiences of a cohort of potential Seals from day one through Hell Week. I would say that anyone that thinks that they would like to be a Seal should just go without sleep and food, fill their bath with cold water (50 degrees it seemed) and sit in it for 15 minutes. Have your significant other harangue you for all your faults day and night. Do this for 5 days straight. On the third day eat a granola bar. If you can't do it don't waste your time.

There was what I think was one ESTJ guy that stayed positive through the whole thing. He had the right attitude of "this sucks but it will be over soon". I loved his energy and enthusiasm but I would probably disagree with nearly everything that came out of his mouth.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Ah, you got the upgrade then .

If you recall, I remarked on your women's nails thread that I go every few weeks to get my nails done so I don't look like I ran my cuticles over a cheese grater. This appointment lasts around an hour. Stacks of cheesy magazines are in abundance and I can choose People, Us or Car and Driver. I am incapable of planning ahead for these visits so I make use of what's on hand. I have to read so that the nail girl will be less likely to try to talk to me. You are right that I could go my entire life without knowing ANYTHING contained within any magazine at the nail salon, but I doubt I would learn much from "Nancy" while she does my nails.

Angry Birdsin' time!

I have often wondered how you deal with military types. An intelligent ENTJ is a thing of beauty rarely seen in the wild. That is, until they turn on you. A dumb ESTJ might short your circuits. I did watch the Navy Seals show (Military Channel I think) that chronicled the experiences of a cohort of potential Seals from day one through Hell Week. I would say that anyone that thinks that they would like to be a Seal should just go without sleep and food, fill their bath with cold water (50 degrees it seemed) and sit in it for 15 minutes. Have your significant other harangue you for all your faults day and night. Do this for 5 days straight. On the third day eat a granola bar. If you can't do it don't waste your time.

I'm never going to be a seal, won't try to be a Ranger... I admit I'm only in the high end of mid-speed. Mostly, I deal with military types the way I deal with everyone else. I'm charming enough to get along with almost anyone (except for one jerk in particular), and I gravitate towards people whom are like me. Fortunately, a few people are like me in my section. I have the right amount of charm combined with intellect to at least make people think I'm doing the right thing, and besides that it's all being at the right place at the right time and in the right uniform. Also, my emotional involvement in most things (IE, my not stressing out over stupid shit) seems to earn the respect of my leaders. Being overly emotional is frowned on. Why wouldn't it be? Freaking out in combat is a pretty bad idea.

There was what I think was one ESTJ guy that stayed positive through the whole thing. He had the right attitude of "this sucks but it will be over soon". I loved his energy and enthusiasm but I would probably disagree with nearly everything that came out of his mouth.

I can't do the energy or enthusiasm, but the factr of the matter is that sucky things inevitably stop sucking, so they're no big deal.