My Stance on the Supernatural

[Old Things]

The other side of the story is that sometimes things happen objectively, for which we have no natural answer.

That statement means a lot of things. It is different to say that we have no answers, vs it is impossible to have an answer.

Events happen. These "super-events" or events with supernatural intervention, is matter reacting with itself.

"Matter" of course being a over simplification, we don't even fully comprehend in itself. The periodic table is a wild thing.

I've experienced things like this. Here are two examples of healings that defy naturalist explanations. I encourage you to come up with a naturalistic explanation. So far, I have not come up with a plausible naturalistic explanation, but I have tried to come up with one. In short, what do you do when there is no ethereal experience that goes along with the miracle? What if the emotion you experience when witnessing the miracle is surprise? What if you are not expecting it, and it happens anyway? That is not going to be something that correlates with the brain playing a trick on you.

Like you were standing a little too much to the left and avoided a flying tire from decapitating you?

If something happens that supercedes the things you anticipated your entire life, you are definitely going to have a pretty ELEVATED experience.

It would be like drinking acid and Molly's without realizing it and then having sex and smoking a joint and asking yourself what you did to deserve such an experience.

The human brain is not a precise machine made engine. It's a work of art, and an engineering marvel.

But the trade off being able to adapt to our crazy environment, mother nature, has left its mark on us.

That's just how I feel though, I don't need you telling me how I feel is wrong. You just made the thread so I just wanted to interject with that perspective.

I'll tell you and @Hadoblado the same thing I told @Cognisant, which is that you guys have faith in naturalism.

Someone I know who has a PhD in chemical biology and was raised in a three generational atheist home and who became a Christian late in life said that sometimes things get demystified, and we think what used to be supernatural is not natural. But here's the thing... He will also say that the opposite is true, that some things we used to think we had a natural explanation for, but we now don't know anything about.

Therefore, it may "make sense" to you that there is always a naturalistic explanation for things, but that is because you have an orientation against the supernatural.

 

[Puffy]

stone structures that were built 17.000 years ago, with stone pillars that weigh 1,200 TONS each, that would be impossible to build even with modern technology, or thousands of people trying.

the "thunder stone" in st.petersburg was 1250 tons, moved in 1770 using wooden logs, ropes, and a bunch of men.

it's not aliens, it's just human ingenuity. Give some creds to the ancestors

Yeah, that's an example of what I mean by staying grounded. Because of my experiences I'm pretty much close to 100% convinced that fields like Chinese medicine, for example, hold a lot of value. There's a lot of valuable information under the general rubric of "spirituality" that a hardcore materialist would never give a sniff at. But you have to sort through a lot of misinformation to find it. Critical thinking is needed for that imo.

My hometown is in Wiltshire, which is the same county that Stone Henge and Avebury are from, so I can definitely say I appreciate a big stone when I see one either way lol.

 

[Puffy]

The other side of the story is that sometimes things happen objectively, for which we have no natural answer.

That statement means a lot of things. It is different to say that we have no answers, vs it is impossible to have an answer.

Events happen. These "super-events" or events with supernatural intervention, is matter reacting with itself.

"Matter" of course being a over simplification, we don't even fully comprehend in itself. The periodic table is a wild thing.

I've experienced things like this. Here are two examples of healings that defy naturalist explanations. I encourage you to come up with a naturalistic explanation. So far, I have not come up with a plausible naturalistic explanation, but I have tried to come up with one. In short, what do you do when there is no ethereal experience that goes along with the miracle? What if the emotion you experience when witnessing the miracle is surprise? What if you are not expecting it, and it happens anyway? That is not going to be something that correlates with the brain playing a trick on you.

Like you were standing a little too much to the left and avoided a flying tire from decapitating you?

If something happens that supercedes the things you anticipated your entire life, you are definitely going to have a pretty ELEVATED experience.

It would be like drinking acid and Molly's without realizing it and then having sex and smoking a joint and asking yourself what you did to deserve such an experience.

The human brain is not a precise machine made engine. It's a work of art, and an engineering marvel.

But the trade off being able to adapt to our crazy environment, mother nature, has left its mark on us.

That's just how I feel though, I don't need you telling me how I feel is wrong. You just made the thread so I just wanted to interject with that perspective.

I'll tell you and @Hadoblado the same thing I told @Cognisant, which is that you guys have faith in naturalism.

Someone I know who has a PhD in chemical biology and was raised in a three generational atheist home and who became a Christian late in life said that sometimes things get demystified, and we think what used to be supernatural is not natural. But here's the thing... He will also say that the opposite is true, that some things we used to think we had a natural explanation for, but we now don't know anything about.

Therefore, it may "make sense" to you that there is always a naturalistic explanation for things, but that is because you have an orientation against the supernatural.

I think it's just different frames of reference really. You alone have experienced your own testimony that led to you converting to Christianity. You alone know your life, your struggles, and how Christianity has benefited you and serves you as an anchor. Hado hasn't experienced that, as I understand it he hasn't experienced anything that he feels couldn't be reduced to a naturalistic explanation.

I've had active kundalini, which has led me to doing energy healing as a side hustle for years, months drinking ayahuasca in a jungle and all sorts of crazy shit. So my frame of reference is different too in order to make sense of my life's experience.

I think in general people look for narratives that help them to make sense of their lives and provide a sense of stability. Getting people to change such paradigms can come with a lot of upheaval and so its slow and comes with a lot of resistance.

 

[Hadoblado]

The other side of the story is that sometimes things happen objectively, for which we have no natural answer.

That statement means a lot of things. It is different to say that we have no answers, vs it is impossible to have an answer.

Events happen. These "super-events" or events with supernatural intervention, is matter reacting with itself.

"Matter" of course being a over simplification, we don't even fully comprehend in itself. The periodic table is a wild thing.

I've experienced things like this. Here are two examples of healings that defy naturalist explanations. I encourage you to come up with a naturalistic explanation. So far, I have not come up with a plausible naturalistic explanation, but I have tried to come up with one. In short, what do you do when there is no ethereal experience that goes along with the miracle? What if the emotion you experience when witnessing the miracle is surprise? What if you are not expecting it, and it happens anyway? That is not going to be something that correlates with the brain playing a trick on you.

Like you were standing a little too much to the left and avoided a flying tire from decapitating you?

If something happens that supercedes the things you anticipated your entire life, you are definitely going to have a pretty ELEVATED experience.

It would be like drinking acid and Molly's without realizing it and then having sex and smoking a joint and asking yourself what you did to deserve such an experience.

The human brain is not a precise machine made engine. It's a work of art, and an engineering marvel.

But the trade off being able to adapt to our crazy environment, mother nature, has left its mark on us.

That's just how I feel though, I don't need you telling me how I feel is wrong. You just made the thread so I just wanted to interject with that perspective.

I'll tell you and @Hadoblado the same thing I told @Cognisant, which is that you guys have faith in naturalism.

Someone I know who has a PhD in chemical biology and was raised in a three generational atheist home and who became a Christian late in life said that sometimes things get demystified, and we think what used to be supernatural is not natural. But here's the thing... He will also say that the opposite is true, that some things we used to think we had a natural explanation for, but we now don't know anything about.

Therefore, it may "make sense" to you that there is always a naturalistic explanation for things, but that is because you have an orientation against the supernatural.

If you want to respond to what I say, go ahead. If you want to speculate about me, go to the thread specifically designed for it.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

It's safe to assume that mood and experience are very tied together.

Your locus of control and attitudes surrounding your emotional well-being in the present and near future, I think go a long way.

So it begs the question if you are being disrupted due to irregular emotional processing.

The other side of the story is that sometimes things happen objectively, for which we have no natural answer.

That statement means a lot of things. It is different to say that we have no answers, vs it is impossible to have an answer.

Events happen. These "super-events" or events with supernatural intervention, is matter reacting with itself.

"Matter" of course being a over simplification, we don't even fully comprehend in itself. The periodic table is a wild thing.

I've experienced things like this. Here are two examples of healings that defy naturalist explanations. I encourage you to come up with a naturalistic explanation. So far, I have not come up with a plausible naturalistic explanation, but I have tried to come up with one. In short, what do you do when there is no ethereal experience that goes along with the miracle? What if the emotion you experience when witnessing the miracle is surprise? What if you are not expecting it, and it happens anyway? That is not going to be something that correlates with the brain playing a trick on you.

Like you were standing a little too much to the left and avoided a flying tire from decapitating you?

If something happens that supercedes the things you anticipated your entire life, you are definitely going to have a pretty ELEVATED experience.

It would be like drinking acid and Molly's without realizing it and then having sex and smoking a joint and asking yourself what you did to deserve such an experience.

The human brain is not a precise machine made engine. It's a work of art, and an engineering marvel.

But the trade off being able to adapt to our crazy environment, mother nature, has left its mark on us.

That's just how I feel though, I don't need you telling me how I feel is wrong. You just made the thread so I just wanted to interject with that perspective.

I'll tell you and @Hadoblado the same thing I told @Cognisant, which is that you guys have faith in naturalism.

Someone I know who has a PhD in chemical biology and was raised in a three generational atheist home and who became a Christian late in life said that sometimes things get demystified, and we think what used to be supernatural is not natural. But here's the thing... He will also say that the opposite is true, that some things we used to think we had a natural explanation for, but we now don't know anything about.

Therefore, it may "make sense" to you that there is always a naturalistic explanation for things, but that is because you have an orientation against the supernatural.

"Faith" in naturalism basically implies that we are chained to a certain belief.

YOUR faith requires a subscription to certain ideas. What I would call ancient memes.
Naturalists, rather materialists don't have that. You are equivocating or conflating two different approaches to cosmology.

Sure you can say that a materialists can't defend their position, but there's such a thing as a bad Christian don't you think? It doesn't make sense to point at someone who is not representative of a certain belief. Most people are just bandwagon jumpers.

A good materialist, (and anyone with genuine curiosity) at their core give their respect to a methodology. An act of investigation.

That is where we place our faith, because we have observed that such methodology worked in the past.

You want to poke holes in that and say that it is practically the same. Sure? You observed something. But the scale at which other people observed scientific things is much greater.

Miracles happen. But I doubt they happen to people who are waiting to die for some arbitrary cause. You have all the agency in the world to see that as special, and you don't have to be bad about other people denying it.

I have witnessed strange things that reach absurdity beyond what the sane mind can explain to another person. I save my words for what I'm sure of, and I think about that other shit until I have something that is useful to say about it.

Perfect only exists in the mind. Draw a perfect circle rn... You'll get better over time, but it's just disappointing if you don't have the right expectations. No shit.

 

[sushi]

i think magic element in universe that responds to you when yo try something

like the law of attraction.

 

[scorpiomover]

I just have one question for proponents of the supernatural. Why is it that all these incidences happen in complete isolation? They cannot be captured via cameras and nobody even tries to capture them? Why do they bend the laws of physics only in the absence of an audience and why does it occur in a way that does not punch a hole in the fabric of reality? If cameras and eyes are almost the same, why cannot cameras witness the same phenomenon?

I can think of 2 answers:

1) Quantum behaviour:

When a quantum decision isn't measured, or is measured but in a way that it's interim results are unknown, then the consequences display as if all the possible solutions all happen simultaneously, causing an interference pattern.

When the decision is measured in a way that it's results are known, then the consequences display as if only the measured solution happened, causing a blob pattern.

Take Schrodinger's cat.

Before you have a picture of the cat, the world looks as if the cat could be dead or alive. But once you have a picture of the cat being alive, the world looks as if the cat could only have been alive.

2) The definition of "nature":

The general view of people who don't believe in the supernatural, is that if something isn't natural, then it doesn't exist. If it is proved to exist beyond doubt, then the definition of what is "natural" is altered to include the unnatural/supernatural behaviour.

So if at some point, scientists prove that prayer does work, then prayer would be considered "natural".

If cancers can indeed be cured by prayers then it throws the entirety of biology into question.

Not really. It simply posits that there's more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to cure cancer.

Nobody in the current era has tried to jump off buildings and flap their arms in the name of the lord or try doing tightrope on a thread.

Considering that there's 8,000,000,000 people on the Earth right now, who could do such a test at any of the 24 hours of the day, on any of the 365 days a year, in any year in the last 10 years, it's very likely that someone had tried it.

Why do believers shy away from testing miracles in front of everybody where there is little room for bias?

They don't. But at the end of the day, most people who don't believe in the supernatural tend to be extremely sceptical, and highly critical. Even were you to persuade one, what exactly do you think would happen? That he gives you a billion dollars? Even if you manage to convince him, within 1 minute, 2 more people will be born who would become atheists. You're fighting a losing proposition.

 

[sushi]

i think telekinetics is possible but only at a very weak quantum level

its not provable by science.

 

[Old Things]

The evidence for the supernatural is nearly irrefutable. We have documented reports where a person was sick, ill, or had a disability, and they were miraculously healed. There are even such reports of people coming back to life.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[birdsnestfern]

Yes, and when people bless water or food it definitely changes the chemistry in a beneficial way.

 

[birdsnestfern]

This teacher, Jeffrey Allen is amazing.

 

[Puffy]

If you spend a lot of time around this stuff I think it's hard to deny that there's something going on even if it's not clear what it is.

 

[dr froyd]

isn't it a strange coincidence that all "supernatural" things somehow conform to human predilections

like, what if we found that somewhere in the galaxy some physical laws don't work as expected - maybe law of entropy is reversed or something. All the people who believe in religion, ghosts, leprechauns and whatnot would go "yeah whatever"

unless, of course, we can apply some interesting anthropomorphism to it. Maybe it's a ghost doing it, maybe it's my dead great-great-grandmother trying to communicate with me, etc

or put another way: if some scientist saw something in a telescope that just didn't make any physical sense, we would agree that it's either an unanswered scientific question, or the instrument is wrong, or the scientist is fooled by his senses. But if that thing is not just some scientific curiosity, but could be my great-great grandmother sending me messages, well.. then we know for sure that none of those 3 options are available - now it's confirmatory evidence of supernatural phenomena

 

[Puffy]

isn't it a strange coincidence that all "supernatural" things somehow conform to human predilections

like, what if we found that somewhere in the galaxy some physical laws don't work as expected - maybe law of entropy is reversed or something. All the people who believe in religion, ghosts, leprechauns and whatnot would go "yeah whatever"

unless, of course, we can apply some interesting anthropomorphism to it. Maybe it's a ghost doing it, maybe it's my dead great-great-grandmother trying to communicate with me, etc

or put another way: if some scientist saw something in a telescope that just didn't make any physical sense, we would agree that it's either an unanswered scientific question, or the instrument is wrong, or the scientist is fooled by his senses. But if that thing is not just some scientific curiosity, but could be my great-great grandmother sending me messages, well.. then we know for sure that none of those 3 options are available - now it's confirmatory evidence of supernatural phenomena

In a way I don’t like the words supernatural or spiritual as it implies that things couldn’t be explained in a different way. But there are plenty of things that people classify using these terms that someone can have experience of like energy/kundalini (Ayurveda, TCM), action at a distance, altered states/perceptions, OBEs, NDEs, telepathy, faith healings. A lot of people dismiss without having much auto-ethnographical experience of the domain, I don’t know if you’re like that or not. Some people also don’t believe even when faced with it which is where the element of faith comes in, I had an atheistic friend who had an injury healed through faith healing and still clamped down afterwards that it couldn’t have worked for example.

 

[Old Things]

isn't it a strange coincidence that all "supernatural" things somehow conform to human predilections

like, what if we found that somewhere in the galaxy some physical laws don't work as expected - maybe law of entropy is reversed or something. All the people who believe in religion, ghosts, leprechauns and whatnot would go "yeah whatever"

unless, of course, we can apply some interesting anthropomorphism to it. Maybe it's a ghost doing it, maybe it's my dead great-great-grandmother trying to communicate with me, etc

or put another way: if some scientist saw something in a telescope that just didn't make any physical sense, we would agree that it's either an unanswered scientific question, or the instrument is wrong, or the scientist is fooled by his senses. But if that thing is not just some scientific curiosity, but could be my great-great grandmother sending me messages, well.. then we know for sure that none of those 3 options are available - now it's confirmatory evidence of supernatural phenomena

Sounds like the kind of reasoning that Hume gave:
Hume: Miracles don't exist.
Detractor: How do you know that?
Hume: Because there is no source with enough authority to show that miracles exist.
Detractor: How do you know that?
Hume: Because miracles don't exist.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Unless you're persistently having these supernatural experiences, how do you reason about them?

And if you are persistently having these experiences how do you convince yourself you're not mentally ill and thus not experiencing a fabrication of your own mind when others around you do not corroborate what you feel?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Puffy]

Unless you're persistently having these supernatural experiences, how do you reason about them?

And if you are persistently having these experiences how do you convince yourself you're not mentally ill and thus not experiencing a fabrication of your own mind when others around you do not corroborate what you feel?

Asking for a friend.

These are great questions and things I reflect on a lot sometimes.

I have a daily experience of communicating with what I perceive to be transpersonal entities, they will often come accompanied by vibrational sensations in my body, heightened senses and sometimes closed eye visuals or sounds. However, it's boundaried in that I only enter that kind of state deliberately as a result of meditation or intense focus and it only rarely intrudes upon my everyday experience. Also, whenever I engage with said entities they're always benevolent and I end the exchange feeling a lot lighter and happier than where I started.

So for me I convince myself I'm not mentally ill as there's no evidence of harm and I otherwise lead a very functional life, professionally and socially. I've had ex-partners and friends who had psychosis and when they interacted with voices they felt were external to them they'd often have negative or paranoid messages. I haven't personally experienced that, it's always loving and reassuring like feeling at home or being wrapped in a warm blanket.

 

[birdsnestfern]

I'd want to know exactly what types of supernatural experiences they were. For example. Ghost sensitivity is possible. If you only hear something, its probably a mental illness. If you feel cold sensation and are awakened by a dream of a ghost and feel ice cold on a 100 degree night, its probably a spirit. If the person gets intuitive flashes that helped guide them, its good. If its an attached bad spirit and its causing bad things, then its not good. It depends on what it is and how its experienced.

I have blindness in one eye due to macular degeneration and in the spot that is blind, and while under extreme stress of a hurricane and without sleep, I've had visuals of amazing haitian light show in neon colors just in that blind spot of one eye. I know I'm not hallucinating because the other eye doesn't see the same. Its a phenomenon where your brain tries to fill in the missing sight with something and it only happens when there is extreme stress or tiredness, which I had both of that night, it was pitch black and hot as hell and I couldn't sleep with bits of roofs and trees flying around and being torn off and bushes violently hitting windows sounding like someone trying to get in, whew.

But I do believe in the spirit world. Some people are more sensitive to it. I've had real things happen, like when we visited a haunted graveyard in new york countryside, (Gurnsey Hollow) https://www.hauntedplaces.org/item/gurnsey-hollow-cemetery/ a transistor radio inside a backpack that was OFF suddenly started playing static as we got near the gravesite of a boy and girl ghost. The boy tries to protect the girl from people entering, and tries to scare people away I believe. The radio static was trying to tell us to get out of there, but also this feeling of dread came over us. I headed right back to the car since I respected that they didn't want us there.
I think silver attracts ghosts, as do banana plants, they love both. But, let me tell you, that was an incredible Haitian art light show movie with neon colors, light streaks, purple, orange, green, pink, yellow against black, it was like if they were spirits they were showing me intense beautiful magic light show. But I know its not that, its the medical phenomenon associated with vision loss. Its called Charles Bonnet Syndrome.

Charles Bonnet Syndrome (CBS): Hallucinations After Sight Loss | Carents

Charles Bonnet Syndrome causes visual hallucinations after sight loss. Learn about symptoms, coping strategies, and where to find help if you or a loved one is affected.

carents.co.uk

And, I took classes in DC a few times and stayed at the Mayflower Renaissance. It has ghosts. I stayed in a corner room that was small near the front of the hotel the first night, and woke up black and blue all over. I asked for another room for the next few nights, as I felt like something attacked me in my sleep, I kid you not, it was likely the ghost there (Calvert Coolidge). This is the hotel that Clinton and Lewinsky had their affair in, its two blocks from the White House. After finding black and blue bruises all over my arms and legs upon waking up, I will never ever go back again. The other room was fine though, it was gigantic, two huge queen beds, it was a suite, and a little bit eery. I had a fabulous hamburger sent up late at night that was delicious however. But I'm convinced I got beaten up while I slept. I've never had that experience or had so many bruises in any other place, and its not a medical condition. https://www.hauntedplaces.org/item/renaissance-mayflower-hotel/

THE MAYFLOWER HOTEL, AUTOGRAPH COLLECTION - Updated 2025 Prices & Reviews (Washington DC)

Book The Mayflower Hotel, Autograph Collection, Washington DC on Tripadvisor: See 3,314 traveler reviews, 1,885 candid photos, and great deals for The Mayflower Hotel, Autograph Collection, ranked #112 of 153 hotels in Washington DC and rated 4 of 5 at Tripadvisor.

www.tripadvisor.com

After that bad experience, I found a much better hotel, the Residence Inn, Arlington Courthouse its perfect.

RESIDENCE INN ARLINGTON COURTHOUSE - Updated 2025 Prices & Hotel Reviews (VA)

Book Residence Inn Arlington Courthouse, Arlington on Tripadvisor: See 570 traveler reviews, 180 candid photos, and great deals for Residence Inn Arlington Courthouse, ranked #10 of 47 hotels in Arlington and rated 4 of 5 at Tripadvisor.

www.tripadvisor.com

 

[Old Things]

Unless you're persistently having these supernatural experiences, how do you reason about them?

And if you are persistently having these experiences how do you convince yourself you're not mentally ill and thus not experiencing a fabrication of your own mind when others around you do not corroborate what you feel?

Asking for a friend.

I don't have to "reason about them." IDK what that would mean or look like. Sometimes you just experience something that defies naturalistic explanation. At that point, it's not really your job to ask about the experience. You just know what you experienced. Asking comes later, possibly, but not in the sense that you question what you clearly experienced.

IMO, the supernatural things I have experienced are just like natural things I experience. I just have no naturalistic explanation of them. It's not complicated.

John 9:20-25
"“We know this is our son and that he was born blind,” his parents answered. “But we don’t know how he now sees, and we don’t know who opened his eyes. Ask him; he’s of age. He will speak for himself.” His parents said these things because they were afraid of the Jews, since the Jews had already agreed that if anyone confessed him as the Messiah, he would be banned from the synagogue. This is why his parents said, “He’s of age; ask him.”
So a second time they summoned the man who had been blind and told him, “Give glory to God. We know that this man is a sinner.” He answered, “Whether or not he’s a sinner, I don’t know. One thing I do know: I was blind, and now I can see!”"

I am not sharing this verse to "prove" the Bible is true. I simply share it to show what it is like for me when I experience something miraculous. I may not know all the ins and outs of "how" or "why," but I know I have experienced them like any other thing I have experienced, no matter how spectacular or mundane.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

These are great questions and things I reflect on a lot sometimes.

It is a good question and I've been unable to make an apt thought experiment or illustration as I've been trying to do so.

We can easily deduce what an event is in some instances and in other instances it is a challenge.

Even if you havent witnessed a crime, like a purse snatching, in a prior circumstance, you may very well realize that is what is happening if it occurs in front of you.

Our accuracy is of course going to be tangent on our prior knowledge and attitudes. Maybe, it's not a purse snatching, perhaps it's staged or something else.

Though this deduction when it comes to "supernatural" instances usually seem to stretch into territory that is beyond the observation and into the meaningful for many.

EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION: sorta going off what froyed posted last. I wanted to include a memetic argument for why apparitions may or may not be a vestigial organ of human reasoning, but I doubt it would be well received.

I simply share it to show what it is like for me when I experience something miraculous. I may not know all the ins and outs of "how" or "why," but I know I have experienced them like any other thing I have experienced, no matter how spectacular or mundane.

And so this is why it bugs me.

Me personally, I can jive and relate to some of the things that have been shared here.

Feeling another presence, witnessing something "impossible".

Though after the fact I am left in a state of belief abstinence. A sort of super position where I'm holding several narratives in my head because I cannot reckon with what I've seen.

In fact to settle on a single narrative would be to change my entire disposition to the other narratives because many are incompatible.

Id much rather be done with it and file it away in a drawer and move on with my life.

I'll admit the biblical ethos has been helpful to me recently, though that isnt necessarily a "good" thing as the word holy seems to be synonymous with.

 

[Old Things]

Me personally, I can jive and relate to some of the things that have been shared here.

Feeling another presence, witnessing something "impossible".

Though after the fact I am left in a state of belief abstinence. A sort of super position where I'm holding several narratives in my head because I cannot reckon with what I've seen.

In fact to settle on a single narrative would be to change my entire disposition to the other narratives because many are incompatible.

Id much rather be done with it and file it away in a drawer and move on with my life.

I'll admit the biblical ethos has been helpful to me recently, though that isnt necessarily a "good" thing as the word holy seems to be synonymous with.

People will react to the supernatural in different ways. But if it was truly supernatural, the only difference from a natural occurrence is that there is no natural source to the phenomenon. So, my take on the supernatural here might be quite a bit different than @Puffy and @birdsnestfern. Because, IIRC, they tend to play up the supernatural as if it is a good thing for its own sake. In my case, I just believe the universe is supernatural, so there is no need to make the supernatural more than it needs to be. It seems to me that the two others here who believe in the supernatural tend to think that experiencing supernatural events is to be desired above natural experiences. I do not share this sentiment. I know the supernatural is real, but I don't chase those experiences, if that makes sense. If something supernatural happens to me, I try to learn from it, but otherwise, so much of life is just natural events. That does not make the natural events less meaningful. You have to be able to squeeze the meaning out of both natural and supernatural events. This is probably somewhat influenced by me being a Christian. The Christian faith believes in the supernatural. However, in proper orthodox Christianity, we don't need to chase supernatural events and recreate the supernatural events in the Bible because there is enough meaning in natural, everyday life. Of course, as a Christian, I believe that all that happens is within God's divine plan for the universe. This includes both natural and supernatural events. So I guess you could say I put less emphasis on natural vs supernatural and more emphasis on trying to figure out what God is telling me through what I am experiencing. That being said, there is a balance between figuring out what the "message" is of these supernatural events and just realizing you don't need to know everything. I have plenty of supernatural experiences that are very much lingering questions. But I do not dwell on things that I don't or can't know because it isn't productive. Maybe God will reveal it to me someday. Maybe He won't. What I do know is that the universe was not created for humans. It was created for God. So I don't need to know why I thought I saw an outline of an angel of light in the middle of the night (something that actually happened to me). Perhaps it is not for me to know!

 

[Old Things]

Feeling another presence

Is this something that actually happened to you?

 

[fluffy]

Though after the fact I am left in a state of belief abstinence. A sort of super position where I'm holding several narratives in my head because I cannot reckon with what I've seen.

In fact to settle on a single narrative would be to change my entire disposition to the other narratives because many are incompatible.

Id much rather be done with it and file it away in a drawer and move on with my life.

I think that we have these reality paths that converge or diverge at multiple levels.

At times I think I have repeated actions or something like this where I did something different that what I remembered I did.

I have certain understandings of the world that conflict with the notion of being alone.

As if I am being directed along areas that are getting me too future points in life.

I make choices but only in environments that have some kind artificial construction.

And this leads me to a conclusion of being developed for some purpose.

I don't mean to say anything like this is physical but something less confined.

As if I switched back and forth between a real world and a word where I had to do other things not to make mistakes here.

I played out multiple lives yet I am here to go in a different path from that experience.

 

[Puffy]

Me personally, I can jive and relate to some of the things that have been shared here.

Feeling another presence, witnessing something "impossible".

Though after the fact I am left in a state of belief abstinence. A sort of super position where I'm holding several narratives in my head because I cannot reckon with what I've seen.

In fact to settle on a single narrative would be to change my entire disposition to the other narratives because many are incompatible.

Id much rather be done with it and file it away in a drawer and move on with my life.

I'll admit the biblical ethos has been helpful to me recently, though that isnt necessarily a "good" thing as the word holy seems to be synonymous with.

People will react to the supernatural in different ways. But if it was truly supernatural, the only difference from a natural occurrence is that there is no natural source to the phenomenon. So, my take on the supernatural here might be quite a bit different than @Puffy and @birdsnestfern. Because, IIRC, they tend to play up the supernatural as if it is a good thing for its own sake. In my case, I just believe the universe is supernatural, so there is no need to make the supernatural more than it needs to be. It seems to me that the two others here who believe in the supernatural tend to think that experiencing supernatural events is to be desired above natural experiences. I do not share this sentiment. I know the supernatural is real, but I don't chase those experiences, if that makes sense. If something supernatural happens to me, I try to learn from it, but otherwise, so much of life is just natural events. That does not make the natural events less meaningful. You have to be able to squeeze the meaning out of both natural and supernatural events. This is probably somewhat influenced by me being a Christian. The Christian faith believes in the supernatural. However, in proper orthodox Christianity, we don't need to chase supernatural events and recreate the supernatural events in the Bible because there is enough meaning in natural, everyday life. Of course, as a Christian, I believe that all that happens is within God's divine plan for the universe. This includes both natural and supernatural events. So I guess you could say I put less emphasis on natural vs supernatural and more emphasis on trying to figure out what God is telling me through what I am experiencing. That being said, there is a balance between figuring out what the "message" is of these supernatural events and just realizing you don't need to know everything. I have plenty of supernatural experiences that are very much lingering questions. But I do not dwell on things that I don't or can't know because it isn't productive. Maybe God will reveal it to me someday. Maybe He won't. What I do know is that the universe was not created for humans. It was created for God. So I don't need to know why I thought I saw an outline of an angel of light in the middle of the night (something that actually happened to me). Perhaps it is not for me to know!

I'm not sure that quite mirrors my stance. To clarify, I have the personal experience of two close friends who've ended their lives after going into psychosis, that was in part triggered by overzealous exploration of altered states. I'm fully aware of the importance of being grounded and anchored in this world, which is why I said in my previous example that to me it's important that my exploration of the supernatural is boundaried and doesn't impact on my ability to function in this world. I have a regular job and hobbies like muay thai, guitar and clowning that keep me grounded in the physical.

For me it's closer to say that I've been passionate about spirituality/ occult/ mysticism/ esotericism/ psychedelics, etc, for the last 20 years or so. Every autist has their special interest that they love and are passionate about and that's mine. For me it's something that enhances and enriches and gives colour to my life, and occasionally dips into Christianity also. My overall take is probably close to yours in acknowledging that it's a part of life here to not be denied but integrated in such a way that enhances and gives greater depth of meaning to our life. If someone is living more in the supernatural than this world then I'd say they're probably not grounded enough and need to focus on that more.

 

[Old Things]

For me it's closer to say that I've been passionate about spirituality/ occult/ mysticism/ esotericism/ psychedelics, etc, for the last 20 years or so.

Sorry I misrepresented your stance, but that shit will confuse you more than anything.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

People will react to the supernatural in different ways. But if it was truly supernatural, the only difference from a natural occurrence is that there is no natural source to the phenomenon.

That word source is a very pesky one isn't it.

I can't help but wonder if evolution or sentient existence is the right move. Either we are getting closer or further from transcendence with added awareness and I cannot tell.

I still think religious as an institution is just hacking the brain, and to what end is dependent on the education of it's constituents.

Feeling another presence

Is this something that actually happened to you?

In the past and recently yes.

I got the sense that someone was very vulnerable with me, and it would be a betrayal to my self or others if I divulge too much. I will say that when I asked what I was to do with this experience, I was made to believe "to understand"

Mind you I on rare occasion am stricken with what is essentially a DMT fueled day dreams (nightmares) and fugue states for weeks at a time that incapacitate me for months (years even) and I don't know of very many other people like me to have their critical faculties sharp let alone the social status to determine their own wellbeing nor those of others.

Every time I have one of these episodes it's like my brain is trying to cast the widest net possible to catch the essence of what has happened and converge on what has happened slowly dispensing with certain narratives.

This last time it happened I feel like I actually came away with less baggage in life though. Rather, I have I have less frivolous and more pointed questions. I'm sure those artifacts will creep up in future posts i make.

I also saw a lot that I flat out don't want to talk about, and I'm sure no one else needs these mind virus rokos basilisk-esk mukking about in their thoughts.

Though after the fact I am left in a state of belief abstinence. A sort of super position where I'm holding several narratives in my head because I cannot reckon with what I've seen.

In fact to settle on a single narrative would be to change my entire disposition to the other narratives because many are incompatible.

Id much rather be done with it and file it away in a drawer and move on with my life.

I think that we have these reality paths that converge or diverge at multiple levels.

At times I think I have repeated actions or something like this where I did something different that what I remembered I did.

I have certain understandings of the world that conflict with the notion of being alone.

As if I am being directed along areas that are getting me too future points in life.

I make choices but only in environments that have some kind artificial construction.

And this leads me to a conclusion of being developed for some purpose.

I don't mean to say anything like this is physical but something less confined.

As if I switched back and forth between a real world and a word where I had to do other things not to make mistakes here.

I played out multiple lives yet I am here to go in a different path from that experience.

My favorite meta explanation to play around with but is still that is still scarry af if you believe it is that God or the beings that keep things in order (perhaps the universe just does this naturally?) are/is managing varrying branches of reality, and that when we approach maximum capacity of storage space in the universe they start merging and pruning branches which are basically alternate timelines so that we don't run out of space.

However theres still like a recycle bin/afterlife for these other beings but they can only vicariously live within our universe (including versions of yourself) so the side affect is this supernatural stuff.

It's akin to simulation theory, like if we were to go revert back to 2019, and the virus didn't happen, there would be down stream effects, we can't even begin to comprehend.

Humans are multi-dimensional beings that don't benefit from alternate timelines but we still have like a connection to them, and some of us have too strong of a connection with such external ether.

I thought about that this during this most recent episode, I may not elaborate under what circumstance. It's major unverifiable cope to try to explain what I was seeing, but also maybe a message related to me?

For me it's closer to say that I've been passionate about spirituality/ occult/ mysticism/ esotericism/ psychedelics, etc, for the last 20 years or so.

Jung is definitely a entry way into this.

I want to study the origin of the tarot, transpose various translations of the bible, and I wanted to figure out the logic behind astrology.

Not for any material gain, more for amusement and cultural enrichment.

 

[Old Things]

People will react to the supernatural in different ways. But if it was truly supernatural, the only difference from a natural occurrence is that there is no natural source to the phenomenon.

That word source is a very pesky one isn't it.

I can't help but wonder if evolution or sentient existence is the right move. Either we are getting closer or further from transcendence with added awareness and I cannot tell.

I still think religious as an institution is just hacking the brain, and to what end is dependent on the education of it's constituents.

Feeling another presence

Is this something that actually happened to you?

In the past and recently yes.

I got the sense that someone was very vulnerable with me, and it would be a betrayal to my self or others if I divulge too much. I will say that when I asked what I was to do with this experience, I was made to believe "to understand"

Mind you I on rare occasion am stricken with what is essentially a DMT fueled day dreams (nightmares) and fugue states for weeks at a time that incapacitate me for months (years even) and I don't know of very many other people like me to have their critical faculties sharp let alone the social status to determine their own wellbeing nor those of others.

Every time I have one of these episodes it's like my brain is trying to cast the widest net possible to catch the essence of what has happened and converge on what has happened slowly dispensing with certain narratives.

This last time it happened I feel like I actually came away with less baggage in life though. Rather, I have I have less frivolous and more pointed questions. I'm sure those artifacts will creep up in future posts i make.

I also saw a lot that I flat out don't want to talk about, and I'm sure no one else needs these mind virus rokos basilisk-esk mukking about in their thoughts.

Though after the fact I am left in a state of belief abstinence. A sort of super position where I'm holding several narratives in my head because I cannot reckon with what I've seen.

In fact to settle on a single narrative would be to change my entire disposition to the other narratives because many are incompatible.

Id much rather be done with it and file it away in a drawer and move on with my life.

I think that we have these reality paths that converge or diverge at multiple levels.

At times I think I have repeated actions or something like this where I did something different that what I remembered I did.

I have certain understandings of the world that conflict with the notion of being alone.

As if I am being directed along areas that are getting me too future points in life.

I make choices but only in environments that have some kind artificial construction.

And this leads me to a conclusion of being developed for some purpose.

I don't mean to say anything like this is physical but something less confined.

As if I switched back and forth between a real world and a word where I had to do other things not to make mistakes here.

I played out multiple lives yet I am here to go in a different path from that experience.

My favorite meta explanation to play around with but is still that is still scarry af if you believe it is that God or the beings that keep things in order (perhaps the universe just does this naturally?) are/is managing varrying branches of reality, and that when we approach maximum capacity of storage space in the universe they start merging and pruning branches which are basically alternate timelines so that we don't run out of space.

However theres still like a recycle bin/afterlife for these other beings but they can only vicariously live within our universe (including versions of yourself) so the side affect is this supernatural stuff.

It's akin to simulation theory, like if we were to go revert back to 2019, and the virus didn't happen, there would be down stream effects, we can't even begin to comprehend.

Humans are multi-dimensional beings that don't benefit from alternate timelines but we still have like a connection to them, and some of us have too strong of a connection with such external ether.

I thought about that this during this most recent episode, I may not elaborate under what circumstance. It's major unverifiable cope to try to explain what I was seeing, but also maybe a message related to me?

For me it's closer to say that I've been passionate about spirituality/ occult/ mysticism/ esotericism/ psychedelics, etc, for the last 20 years or so.

Jung is definitely a entry way into this.

I want to study the origin of the tarot, transpose various translations of the bible, and I wanted to figure out the logic behind astrology.

Not for any material gain, more for amusement and cultural enrichment.

Feel free to private message me if you would rather not disclose too much. I can promise I will not divulge the info as long as no one is in danger.

 

[Puffy]

For me it's closer to say that I've been passionate about spirituality/ occult/ mysticism/ esotericism/ psychedelics, etc, for the last 20 years or so.

Sorry I misrepresented your stance, but that shit will confuse you more than anything.

I understand why you feel that way, but it’s honestly supported my life a lot. I see it as being analogous to purification, I’m a lot lighter and have grown in lots of ways since it started. It helps that I’m a very cautious person so I’ve never gone overboard and always pulled back when I needed to. I see it as like climbing a mountain, rush and you get sick or take it slowly and things softly expand.

People will react to the supernatural in different ways. But if it was truly supernatural, the only difference from a natural occurrence is that there is no natural source to the phenomenon.

That word source is a very pesky one isn't it.

I can't help but wonder if evolution or sentient existence is the right move. Either we are getting closer or further from transcendence with added awareness and I cannot tell.

I still think religious as an institution is just hacking the brain, and to what end is dependent on the education of it's constituents.

Feeling another presence

Is this something that actually happened to you?

In the past and recently yes.

I got the sense that someone was very vulnerable with me, and it would be a betrayal to my self or others if I divulge too much. I will say that when I asked what I was to do with this experience, I was made to believe "to understand"

Mind you I on rare occasion am stricken with what is essentially a DMT fueled day dreams (nightmares) and fugue states for weeks at a time that incapacitate me for months (years even) and I don't know of very many other people like me to have their critical faculties sharp let alone the social status to determine their own wellbeing nor those of others.

Every time I have one of these episodes it's like my brain is trying to cast the widest net possible to catch the essence of what has happened and converge on what has happened slowly dispensing with certain narratives.

This last time it happened I feel like I actually came away with less baggage in life though. Rather, I have I have less frivolous and more pointed questions. I'm sure those artifacts will creep up in future posts i make.

I also saw a lot that I flat out don't want to talk about, and I'm sure no one else needs these mind virus rokos basilisk-esk mukking about in their thoughts.

Though after the fact I am left in a state of belief abstinence. A sort of super position where I'm holding several narratives in my head because I cannot reckon with what I've seen.

In fact to settle on a single narrative would be to change my entire disposition to the other narratives because many are incompatible.

Id much rather be done with it and file it away in a drawer and move on with my life.

I think that we have these reality paths that converge or diverge at multiple levels.

At times I think I have repeated actions or something like this where I did something different that what I remembered I did.

I have certain understandings of the world that conflict with the notion of being alone.

As if I am being directed along areas that are getting me too future points in life.

I make choices but only in environments that have some kind artificial construction.

And this leads me to a conclusion of being developed for some purpose.

I don't mean to say anything like this is physical but something less confined.

As if I switched back and forth between a real world and a word where I had to do other things not to make mistakes here.

I played out multiple lives yet I am here to go in a different path from that experience.

My favorite meta explanation to play around with but is still that is still scarry af if you believe it is that God or the beings that keep things in order (perhaps the universe just does this naturally?) are/is managing varrying branches of reality, and that when we approach maximum capacity of storage space in the universe they start merging and pruning branches which are basically alternate timelines so that we don't run out of space.

However theres still like a recycle bin/afterlife for these other beings but they can only vicariously live within our universe (including versions of yourself) so the side affect is this supernatural stuff.

It's akin to simulation theory, like if we were to go revert back to 2019, and the virus didn't happen, there would be down stream effects, we can't even begin to comprehend.

Humans are multi-dimensional beings that don't benefit from alternate timelines but we still have like a connection to them, and some of us have too strong of a connection with such external ether.

I thought about that this during this most recent episode, I may not elaborate under what circumstance. It's major unverifiable cope to try to explain what I was seeing, but also maybe a message related to me?

For me it's closer to say that I've been passionate about spirituality/ occult/ mysticism/ esotericism/ psychedelics, etc, for the last 20 years or so.

Jung is definitely a entry way into this.

I want to study the origin of the tarot, transpose various translations of the bible, and I wanted to figure out the logic behind astrology.

Not for any material gain, more for amusement and cultural enrichment.

Jung is how I first started (and how I came across this forum) when I was 19 (16 years ago whoa )

You’re not alone in this btw. I can’t divulge names for privacy reasons but there are a few members here who experience these episodes and are lucid as well but they’re not active here atm. I get something similar but milder and tends to be more nocturnal.

 

[Old Things]

I understand why you feel that way, but it’s honestly supported my life a lot. I see it as being analogous to purification, I’m a lot lighter and have grown in lots of ways since it started. It helps that I’m a very cautious person so I’ve never gone overboard and always pulled back when I needed to. I see it as like climbing a mountain, rush and you get sick or take it slowly and things softly expand.

Occultism and witchcraft have been linked to demonic possession. I don't want that to happen to you. And even if it doesn't, I am still concerned about your soul.

 

[Puffy]

I understand why you feel that way, but it’s honestly supported my life a lot. I see it as being analogous to purification, I’m a lot lighter and have grown in lots of ways since it started. It helps that I’m a very cautious person so I’ve never gone overboard and always pulled back when I needed to. I see it as like climbing a mountain, rush and you get sick or take it slowly and things softly expand.

Occultism and witchcraft have been linked to demonic possession. I don't want that to happen to you. And even if it doesn't, I am still concerned about your soul.

A lot of Western tradition emerged through Christianity and was practiced by Christians for millennia, people like Jung EndegenousRebel mentioned were Christian. I know of cases of demonic possession as well, one could argue that Lyra who used to visit this forum showed symptoms of that. But with that it only happens if it's invited, if it happened to him it's because he worked with them. I don't work with demons so it wouldn't happen.

Esotericism has a bad reputation because there are a lot of people in it for the wrong reasons. My practice is heart-centred so it's primarily rooted in love, forgiveness, compassion when I am practicing it well. Imo people go astray when their practice is rooted just in the mind and the ego.

 

[Old Things]

I understand why you feel that way, but it’s honestly supported my life a lot. I see it as being analogous to purification, I’m a lot lighter and have grown in lots of ways since it started. It helps that I’m a very cautious person so I’ve never gone overboard and always pulled back when I needed to. I see it as like climbing a mountain, rush and you get sick or take it slowly and things softly expand.

Occultism and witchcraft have been linked to demonic possession. I don't want that to happen to you. And even if it doesn't, I am still concerned about your soul.

A lot of Western tradition emerged through Christianity and was practiced by Christians for millennia, people like Jung EndegenousRebel mentioned were Christian. I know of cases of demonic possession as well, one could argue that Lyra who used to visit this forum showed symptoms of that. But with that it only happens if it's specifically invited, if it happened to him it's because he worked with them and let them in. I don't work with demons so it wouldn't happen.

Esotericism has a bad reputation because there are a lot of people in it for the wrong reasons. My practice is heart-centred so it's primarily rooted in love, forgiveness, compassion when I am practicing it well. Imo people go astray when their practice is rooted just in the mind and the ego.

Jung was an atheist, not a Christian.

It does not matter what your intentions are. Spirit beings are a lot more powerful than you are, and they are not going to care what your intentions are if you open yourself up to them. They will devour you whole. I would advise to stop doing that shit.

 

[Puffy]

I understand why you feel that way, but it’s honestly supported my life a lot. I see it as being analogous to purification, I’m a lot lighter and have grown in lots of ways since it started. It helps that I’m a very cautious person so I’ve never gone overboard and always pulled back when I needed to. I see it as like climbing a mountain, rush and you get sick or take it slowly and things softly expand.

Occultism and witchcraft have been linked to demonic possession. I don't want that to happen to you. And even if it doesn't, I am still concerned about your soul.

A lot of Western tradition emerged through Christianity and was practiced by Christians for millennia, people like Jung EndegenousRebel mentioned were Christian. I know of cases of demonic possession as well, one could argue that Lyra who used to visit this forum showed symptoms of that. But with that it only happens if it's specifically invited, if it happened to him it's because he worked with them and let them in. I don't work with demons so it wouldn't happen.

Esotericism has a bad reputation because there are a lot of people in it for the wrong reasons. My practice is heart-centred so it's primarily rooted in love, forgiveness, compassion when I am practicing it well. Imo people go astray when their practice is rooted just in the mind and the ego.

Jung was an atheist, not a Christian.

It does not matter what your intentions are. Spirit beings are a lot more powerful than you are, and they are not going to care what your intentions are if you open yourself up to them. They will devour you whole. I would advise to stop doing that shit.

Fair enough, he wasn't an atheist but I appreciate that in his example it depends on someone's definition of Christianity to what extent you can consider him one. His Dad was a pastor and he grew up in a Christian milieu so it's likely fair to say that it had a lot of influence on him at least.

I appreciate your concern, I think for me I've been in your position before so I understand what traditional Christianity has to say about this already. My personal experience contradicts what that led me to expect so I tend to trust my own experience and people I've studied with more. It's hard for me to convey what it's like to you if we don't have similar reference points.

 

[Old Things]

I understand why you feel that way, but it’s honestly supported my life a lot. I see it as being analogous to purification, I’m a lot lighter and have grown in lots of ways since it started. It helps that I’m a very cautious person so I’ve never gone overboard and always pulled back when I needed to. I see it as like climbing a mountain, rush and you get sick or take it slowly and things softly expand.

Occultism and witchcraft have been linked to demonic possession. I don't want that to happen to you. And even if it doesn't, I am still concerned about your soul.

A lot of Western tradition emerged through Christianity and was practiced by Christians for millennia, people like Jung EndegenousRebel mentioned were Christian. I know of cases of demonic possession as well, one could argue that Lyra who used to visit this forum showed symptoms of that. But with that it only happens if it's specifically invited, if it happened to him it's because he worked with them and let them in. I don't work with demons so it wouldn't happen.

Esotericism has a bad reputation because there are a lot of people in it for the wrong reasons. My practice is heart-centred so it's primarily rooted in love, forgiveness, compassion when I am practicing it well. Imo people go astray when their practice is rooted just in the mind and the ego.

Jung was an atheist, not a Christian.

It does not matter what your intentions are. Spirit beings are a lot more powerful than you are, and they are not going to care what your intentions are if you open yourself up to them. They will devour you whole. I would advise to stop doing that shit.

Fair enough, he wasn't an atheist but I appreciate that in his example it depends on someone's definition of Christianity to what extent you can consider him one. His Dad was a pastor and he grew up in a Christian milieu so it's likely fair to say that it had a lot of influence on him at least.

I appreciate your concern, I think for me I've been in your position before so I understand what traditional Christianity has to say about this already. My personal experience contradicts what that led me to expect so I tend to trust my own experience and people I've studied with more. It's hard for me to convey what it's like to you if we don't have similar reference points.

There is a difference between being a cultural Christian (something even Dawkins admits to) and having an actual born-again experience. The Bible even has a term for being a cultural Christian. It's called being a "Christian in name only." You are not a Christian because you like the culture, or your family is Christian, or your friends, or you like the politics of some Christians. You are a Christian if you repent of your sins and see Christ as Lord and Savior of your life. Then, you will have an internal change. You will start to desire holiness and hate your own sin. This is not only the Evangelical position, but I also know firsthand what this is like because I went through a radical change that was far more than simple behavior modifications. Something happened in me. I no longer wanted to do the wrong things I had been doing. I wanted to be charitable. I wanted to help people of my own free will. Not cumpusion, not coersion or being scared of hell or anything, but because i wanted to please God. That is unlike other religions. Islam doesn't care how you feel; you just do the thing. Judaism is the same. Buddhism is the same, with some complexities. But it's all the same: Do these things, and you get closer to God. I don't feel like I have to earn God's love for me. He gives it freely.

I don't think Jung has experienced this. I never read anything like this from him.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I understand why you feel that way, but it’s honestly supported my life a lot. I see it as being analogous to purification, I’m a lot lighter and have grown in lots of ways since it started. It helps that I’m a very cautious person so I’ve never gone overboard and always pulled back when I needed to. I see it as like climbing a mountain, rush and you get sick or take it slowly and things softly expand.

Occultism and witchcraft have been linked to demonic possession. I don't want that to happen to you. And even if it doesn't, I am still concerned about your soul.

A lot of Western tradition emerged through Christianity and was practiced by Christians for millennia, people like Jung EndegenousRebel mentioned were Christian. I know of cases of demonic possession as well, one could argue that Lyra who used to visit this forum showed symptoms of that. But with that it only happens if it's specifically invited, if it happened to him it's because he worked with them and let them in. I don't work with demons so it wouldn't happen.

Esotericism has a bad reputation because there are a lot of people in it for the wrong reasons. My practice is heart-centred so it's primarily rooted in love, forgiveness, compassion when I am practicing it well. Imo people go astray when their practice is rooted just in the mind and the ego.

Jung was an atheist, not a Christian.

It does not matter what your intentions are. Spirit beings are a lot more powerful than you are, and they are not going to care what your intentions are if you open yourself up to them. They will devour you whole. I would advise to stop doing that shit.

Fair enough, he wasn't an atheist but I appreciate that in his example it depends on someone's definition of Christianity to what extent you can consider him one. His Dad was a pastor and he grew up in a Christian milieu so it's likely fair to say that it had a lot of influence on him at least.

I appreciate your concern, I think for me I've been in your position before so I understand what traditional Christianity has to say about this already. My personal experience contradicts what that led me to expect so I tend to trust my own experience and people I've studied with more. It's hard for me to convey what it's like to you if we don't have similar reference points.

It might be too much to ask a Christian to believe anything other than all other spiritual beings are forsaken by God.

There's an interpretation of lines of in the bible that when Lucifer was booted from heaven so we're basically all other entities that doubted God's will.

Comes with the territory.

People will react to the supernatural in different ways. But if it was truly supernatural, the only difference from a natural occurrence is that there is no natural source to the phenomenon.

That word source is a very pesky one isn't it.

I can't help but wonder if evolution or sentient existence is the right move. Either we are getting closer or further from transcendence with added awareness and I cannot tell.

I still think religious as an institution is just hacking the brain, and to what end is dependent on the education of it's constituents.

Feeling another presence

Is this something that actually happened to you?

In the past and recently yes.

I got the sense that someone was very vulnerable with me, and it would be a betrayal to my self or others if I divulge too much. I will say that when I asked what I was to do with this experience, I was made to believe "to understand"

Mind you I on rare occasion am stricken with what is essentially a DMT fueled day dreams (nightmares) and fugue states for weeks at a time that incapacitate me for months (years even) and I don't know of very many other people like me to have their critical faculties sharp let alone the social status to determine their own wellbeing nor those of others.

Every time I have one of these episodes it's like my brain is trying to cast the widest net possible to catch the essence of what has happened and converge on what has happened slowly dispensing with certain narratives.

This last time it happened I feel like I actually came away with less baggage in life though. Rather, I have I have less frivolous and more pointed questions. I'm sure those artifacts will creep up in future posts i make.

I also saw a lot that I flat out don't want to talk about, and I'm sure no one else needs these mind virus rokos basilisk-esk mukking about in their thoughts.

Though after the fact I am left in a state of belief abstinence. A sort of super position where I'm holding several narratives in my head because I cannot reckon with what I've seen.

In fact to settle on a single narrative would be to change my entire disposition to the other narratives because many are incompatible.

Id much rather be done with it and file it away in a drawer and move on with my life.

I think that we have these reality paths that converge or diverge at multiple levels.

At times I think I have repeated actions or something like this where I did something different that what I remembered I did.

I have certain understandings of the world that conflict with the notion of being alone.

As if I am being directed along areas that are getting me too future points in life.

I make choices but only in environments that have some kind artificial construction.

And this leads me to a conclusion of being developed for some purpose.

I don't mean to say anything like this is physical but something less confined.

As if I switched back and forth between a real world and a word where I had to do other things not to make mistakes here.

I played out multiple lives yet I am here to go in a different path from that experience.

My favorite meta explanation to play around with but is still that is still scarry af if you believe it is that God or the beings that keep things in order (perhaps the universe just does this naturally?) are/is managing varrying branches of reality, and that when we approach maximum capacity of storage space in the universe they start merging and pruning branches which are basically alternate timelines so that we don't run out of space.

However theres still like a recycle bin/afterlife for these other beings but they can only vicariously live within our universe (including versions of yourself) so the side affect is this supernatural stuff.

It's akin to simulation theory, like if we were to go revert back to 2019, and the virus didn't happen, there would be down stream effects, we can't even begin to comprehend.

Humans are multi-dimensional beings that don't benefit from alternate timelines but we still have like a connection to them, and some of us have too strong of a connection with such external ether.

I thought about that this during this most recent episode, I may not elaborate under what circumstance. It's major unverifiable cope to try to explain what I was seeing, but also maybe a message related to me?

For me it's closer to say that I've been passionate about spirituality/ occult/ mysticism/ esotericism/ psychedelics, etc, for the last 20 years or so.

Jung is definitely a entry way into this.

I want to study the origin of the tarot, transpose various translations of the bible, and I wanted to figure out the logic behind astrology.

Not for any material gain, more for amusement and cultural enrichment.

Feel free to private message me if you would rather not disclose too much. I can promise I will not divulge the info as long as no one is in danger.

I just might, but I need to sit on it and reflect a little more. It did feel like a spirit or THE spirit was really compelling me not to say anything, but I mean, I trust my judgement, it's just I'm still trying to not sound like a loon and letting it simmer in my head.

The onset of these "visions" or distortions, coincided with the disruption of INTPf, which is an amusing coincidence

 

[Old Things]

I just might, but I need to sit on it and reflect a little more. It did feel like a spirit or THE spirit was really compelling me not to say anything, but I mean, I trust my judgement, it's just I'm still trying to not sound like a loon and letting it simmer in my head.

The onset of these "visions" or distortions, coincided with the disruption of INTPf, which is an amusing coincidence

NP.

Feel free to PM me when/if you ever want to.

 

[Puffy]

I understand why you feel that way, but it’s honestly supported my life a lot. I see it as being analogous to purification, I’m a lot lighter and have grown in lots of ways since it started. It helps that I’m a very cautious person so I’ve never gone overboard and always pulled back when I needed to. I see it as like climbing a mountain, rush and you get sick or take it slowly and things softly expand.

Occultism and witchcraft have been linked to demonic possession. I don't want that to happen to you. And even if it doesn't, I am still concerned about your soul.

A lot of Western tradition emerged through Christianity and was practiced by Christians for millennia, people like Jung EndegenousRebel mentioned were Christian. I know of cases of demonic possession as well, one could argue that Lyra who used to visit this forum showed symptoms of that. But with that it only happens if it's specifically invited, if it happened to him it's because he worked with them and let them in. I don't work with demons so it wouldn't happen.

Esotericism has a bad reputation because there are a lot of people in it for the wrong reasons. My practice is heart-centred so it's primarily rooted in love, forgiveness, compassion when I am practicing it well. Imo people go astray when their practice is rooted just in the mind and the ego.

Jung was an atheist, not a Christian.

It does not matter what your intentions are. Spirit beings are a lot more powerful than you are, and they are not going to care what your intentions are if you open yourself up to them. They will devour you whole. I would advise to stop doing that shit.

Fair enough, he wasn't an atheist but I appreciate that in his example it depends on someone's definition of Christianity to what extent you can consider him one. His Dad was a pastor and he grew up in a Christian milieu so it's likely fair to say that it had a lot of influence on him at least.

I appreciate your concern, I think for me I've been in your position before so I understand what traditional Christianity has to say about this already. My personal experience contradicts what that led me to expect so I tend to trust my own experience and people I've studied with more. It's hard for me to convey what it's like to you if we don't have similar reference points.

It might be too much to ask a Christian to believe anything other than all other spiritual beings are forsaken by God.

There's an interpretation of lines of in the bible that when Lucifer was booted from heaven so we're basically all other entities that doubted God's will.

Comes with the territory.

People will react to the supernatural in different ways. But if it was truly supernatural, the only difference from a natural occurrence is that there is no natural source to the phenomenon.

That word source is a very pesky one isn't it.

I can't help but wonder if evolution or sentient existence is the right move. Either we are getting closer or further from transcendence with added awareness and I cannot tell.

I still think religious as an institution is just hacking the brain, and to what end is dependent on the education of it's constituents.

Feeling another presence

Is this something that actually happened to you?

In the past and recently yes.

I got the sense that someone was very vulnerable with me, and it would be a betrayal to my self or others if I divulge too much. I will say that when I asked what I was to do with this experience, I was made to believe "to understand"

Mind you I on rare occasion am stricken with what is essentially a DMT fueled day dreams (nightmares) and fugue states for weeks at a time that incapacitate me for months (years even) and I don't know of very many other people like me to have their critical faculties sharp let alone the social status to determine their own wellbeing nor those of others.

Every time I have one of these episodes it's like my brain is trying to cast the widest net possible to catch the essence of what has happened and converge on what has happened slowly dispensing with certain narratives.

This last time it happened I feel like I actually came away with less baggage in life though. Rather, I have I have less frivolous and more pointed questions. I'm sure those artifacts will creep up in future posts i make.

I also saw a lot that I flat out don't want to talk about, and I'm sure no one else needs these mind virus rokos basilisk-esk mukking about in their thoughts.

Though after the fact I am left in a state of belief abstinence. A sort of super position where I'm holding several narratives in my head because I cannot reckon with what I've seen.

In fact to settle on a single narrative would be to change my entire disposition to the other narratives because many are incompatible.

Id much rather be done with it and file it away in a drawer and move on with my life.

I think that we have these reality paths that converge or diverge at multiple levels.

At times I think I have repeated actions or something like this where I did something different that what I remembered I did.

I have certain understandings of the world that conflict with the notion of being alone.

As if I am being directed along areas that are getting me too future points in life.

I make choices but only in environments that have some kind artificial construction.

And this leads me to a conclusion of being developed for some purpose.

I don't mean to say anything like this is physical but something less confined.

As if I switched back and forth between a real world and a word where I had to do other things not to make mistakes here.

I played out multiple lives yet I am here to go in a different path from that experience.

My favorite meta explanation to play around with but is still that is still scarry af if you believe it is that God or the beings that keep things in order (perhaps the universe just does this naturally?) are/is managing varrying branches of reality, and that when we approach maximum capacity of storage space in the universe they start merging and pruning branches which are basically alternate timelines so that we don't run out of space.

However theres still like a recycle bin/afterlife for these other beings but they can only vicariously live within our universe (including versions of yourself) so the side affect is this supernatural stuff.

It's akin to simulation theory, like if we were to go revert back to 2019, and the virus didn't happen, there would be down stream effects, we can't even begin to comprehend.

Humans are multi-dimensional beings that don't benefit from alternate timelines but we still have like a connection to them, and some of us have too strong of a connection with such external ether.

I thought about that this during this most recent episode, I may not elaborate under what circumstance. It's major unverifiable cope to try to explain what I was seeing, but also maybe a message related to me?

For me it's closer to say that I've been passionate about spirituality/ occult/ mysticism/ esotericism/ psychedelics, etc, for the last 20 years or so.

Jung is definitely a entry way into this.

I want to study the origin of the tarot, transpose various translations of the bible, and I wanted to figure out the logic behind astrology.

Not for any material gain, more for amusement and cultural enrichment.

Feel free to private message me if you would rather not disclose too much. I can promise I will not divulge the info as long as no one is in danger.

I just might, but I need to sit on it and reflect a little more. It did feel like a spirit or THE spirit was really compelling me not to say anything, but I mean, I trust my judgement, it's just I'm still trying to not sound like a loon and letting it simmer in my head.

The onset of these "visions" or distortions, coincided with the disruption of INTPf, which is an amusing coincidence

I’m not asking him to change his mind, more clarifying my position. This is a topic I enjoy discussing and INTPf doesn’t present many moments for it so I tend to take them as they come.