J-P Balance

[envirodude]

I consistently score close to the midpoint on J/P. I'm wondering if this is common, or if most people have a strong bias to either J-dom or P-dom.

 

[Hadoblado]

It is very common. MBTI should predict a bimodal distribution of scores across each dichotomy, but scores are distribute normally in a bell curve.

If you are not sure whether you are INTJ or INTP, look to the functions. They are two very different types from a functions perspective.

 

[envirodude]

They are two very different types from a functions perspective.

Yes, the functions sound very different, and yet I manage to combine them in one package quite nicely.

I question the whole notion that people always have an innate tendency to follow one or the other path. I don't think the (online) MBTI tests are failing to discern whether I'm really a J or a P - I think they are accurately pointing out that I am a bit of both. Definitely a bit more of a J at work and with deadlines, but at home and in my dreams a P.

At one point a couple years ago I was quite concerned that I needed to decide which side of the fence I was on. So yes, the descriptions of functions did lead me to confidently declare myself INTj. But, as I reflect on things more, I'm questioning the bimodal distribution assumption which you referred to. Do people have to be on one side or the other? Or is it ok to be "bi" in this context?

If there is any published research on this, especially for NTs if available, a link would be great. If not, then here we have a primary research opportunity.

 

[Ink]

Why would I care what a shitty test tells me I am? Even though I am a natural "perceiver" I am constantly acting in the real world and being decisive. Because that's necessary. Not sure what percentage that puts me at.

 

[Ink]

Yes, the functions sound very different, and yet I manage to combine them in one package quite nicely.

I question the whole notion that people always have an innate tendency to follow one or the other path. I don't think the (online) MBTI tests are failing to discern whether I'm really a J or a P - I think they are accurately pointing out that I am a bit of both. Definitely a bit more of a J at work and with deadlines, but at home and in my dreams a P.

At one point a couple years ago I was quite concerned that I needed to decide which side of the fence I was on. So yes, the descriptions of functions did lead me to confidently declare myself INTj. But, as I reflect on things more, I'm questioning the bimodal distribution assumption which you referred to. Do people have to be on one side or the other? Or is it ok to be "bi" in this context?

If there is any published research on this, especially for NTs if available, a link would be great. If not, then here we have a primary research opportunity.

Get rid of thinking of the J/P dichotomy altoghether, it's useless. The functions are the juicy stuff.

 

[Architect]

Get rid of thinking of the J/P dichotomy altoghether, it's useless. The functions are the juicy stuff.

Exactly. No offense but this thread should be retired.

For example, Ti is a judging function, whereas Ne is a perceiving. This is why INTP's are inner judgers and external perceivers. So they are controlling and structured with themselves but relaxed and disorganized with the rest of the world.

 

[own8ge]

Get rid of thinking of the J/P dichotomy altoghether, it's useless. The functions are the juicy stuff.

Haha. This made me cringe. Unfortunately for you sir, the whole MBTI phenomenon is a theory presented based on its core assumption which is the J/P dichotomy. Disregarding J/P, would be to disregard the functions.

 

[Ink]

Haha. This made me cringe. Unfortunately for you sir, the whole MBTI phenomenon is a theory presented based on its core assumption which is the J/P dichotomy. Disregarding J/P, would be to disregard the functions.

You don't have to accept a whole theory to find use in it. Thinking about the J/P dichotomy distracts from the real difference between people which is cognitive processing, not outward behaviour.

 

[own8ge]

You don't have to accept a whole theory to find use in it. Thinking about the J/P dichotomy distracts from the real difference between people which is cognitive processing, not outward behaviour.

This is ignorance. If a whole theory its core assumption is X, then to disagree with X makes the whole theory invalid. Besides, J/P has nothing to do with outward behavior. What you are referring to, is described from how it manifests in the environment. That what manifests in the environment, J/P, however, is something different. The J/P Dichotomy is the descriptor MBTI gives to consciousness. From this descriptor, it elaborates by the usage of other Dichotomies (I/E, N/S, T/F).

And what you are doing is agreeing with elaborations of an assumption of which you disagree. Now you tell me... How is this not ignorance?
Yes you can disregard the J/P dichotomy and still find use in the other dichotomies, but that would be a perspective of a manifestation of socionics which can be contrasted with MBTI, which is not an actual manifestation of MBTI. (?)

 

[Architect]

This is ignorance. If a whole theory its core assumption is X, then to disagree with X makes ...

Love your picture btw. Who is it?

 

[own8ge]

Love your picture btw. Who is it?

George Carlin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ek1jwX4qo

 

[Double_V]

I consistently score close to the midpoint on J/P. I'm wondering if this is common, or if most people have a strong bias to either J-dom or P-dom.

I have the same isse with N & S. Altho I prefer N, I am rather adapt at S in some areas.

I liken it to being ambidextrous.

 

[Ink]

This is ignorance. If a whole theory its core assumption is X, then to disagree with X makes the whole theory invalid. Besides, J/P has nothing to do with outward behavior. What you are referring to, is described from how it manifests in the environment. That what manifests in the environment, J/P, however, is something different. The J/P Dichotomy is the descriptor MBTI gives to consciousness. From this descriptor, it elaborates by the usage of other Dichotomies (I/E, N/S, T/F).

And what you are doing is agreeing with elaborations of an assumption of which you disagree. Now you tell me... How is this not ignorance?
Yes you can disregard the J/P dichotomy and still find use in the other dichotomies, but that would be a perspective of a manifestation of socionics which can be contrasted with MBTI, which is not an actual manifestation of MBTI. (?)

The J/P dichotomy confuses people. It's not what one should focus on. IJs spend more time perceiving than IPs. Outward behaviour can change at will, cognitive functioning can not.

 

[own8ge]

The J/P dichotomy confuses people. It's not what one should focus on. IJs spend more time perceiving than IPs. Outward behaviour can change at will, cognitive functioning can not.

Listen to yourself.

 

[Ink]

Listen to yourself.

Are you really saying online tests give an accurate description of a person?

 

[own8ge]

Are you really saying online tests give an accurate description of a person?

There is no reasonable implication to conclude me thinking such besides your own ignorance. So please back down of your ridiculous confidence which obviously transcends your own understanding. Besides, or better said, FYI, MBTI, the phenomenon, =/= test.

 

[Ink]

So what are you saying then? I just believe that the whole point of using the MBTI theory more than some fun test is because of the functions, so analyzing percentages on a test is useless imo... There are so many factors that determine the result there

 

[own8ge]

So what are you saying then? I just believe that the whole point of using the MBTI theory more than some fun test is because of the functions, so analyzing percentages on a test is useless imo... There are so many factors that determine the result there

Never in this thread I have been referring or regarding percentages nor have I mentioned a test. To imply such is your judgment of the objective world, and your perception of that judgment. You sir, are obviously a Directive (J>P). I suppose that because of this, you have a huge misunderstanding of the theory. And as I have mentioned before, the functions are a result of J/P. If you are J, then in your hierarchy of functions, the one that judge the objective world and the one that perceives the internal world (Pi and Je) will be above Pe and Ji in the hierarchy. Without this hierarchy, there wouldn't be a distinction between perceiving and judging the external or internal world. Without the J/P dichotomy there couldn't be I/E. N/S and T/F are merely the descriptor of the J/P dichotomies, perception and judgment, of which I/E states which is dominant.

And please stop this conversation now. I have had enough of your ignorance being pushed onto me.

 

[Ink]

Never in this thread I have been referring or regarding percentages nor have I mentioned a test.

That's what this thread is about and what everyone else is discussing, I stop reading your posts when you do your mental masturbation. You don't have to tell me what the J/P dichotomy signifies, I know it perfectly well, I just believe it's not good to use it.

 

[Hadoblado]

This is ignorance. If a whole theory its core assumption is X, then to disagree with X makes the whole theory invalid.

It shouldn't matter what is 'core' and what isn't. If the theory is improved by the removal or replacement of a concept, then that's what should happen.

Though for the sake of clarity, it might be a good idea to find a new name!

 

[TimeAsylums]

some clarity on the J/P
http://personalityjunkie.com/03/judging-perceiving-ijs-ips/
also will be easy to understand if you've read on the MBTI

 

[envirodude]

some clarity on the J/P
http://personalityjunkie.com/03/judging-perceiving-ijs-ips/
also will be easy to understand if you've read on the MBTI

Thanks TA - I do like the functional analysis. But it doesn't address my fundamental question which is the (implied? asserted?) bimodality of the JP distinction, but you could argue any of the binary monikers I/E N/S T/F inherent in MBTI. Is there any empirical basis for bimodality? Could the distribution be uniform (flat?) Could there even be a central tendency?

A theory is useful if it works in some way. Some other commenters here suggested that functional analysis should be stressed over MBTI "type". I'm not saying that's wrong, but wouldn't that mean this sub-forum and perhaps the whole forum would need to be recast in terms of primary and auxiliary functions? And we know (don't we?) that that isn't going to happen. INTP is a sufficiently coherent package that it "speaks" to a lot of people. They read a description of characteristically INTP thought processes and behaviours and cry "that's me!" Similarly INTJ "works" because a lot of people see themselves in the descriptors.

My question, specific to the JP axis here, but applicable on whatever axis you like (including, let's say, the purportedly binary functions) is: what is the distribution across that axis.

We could look at skin colour: we use the terms black and white, but I'm sure empirically there's a whole lot of "grey" (ok, brown) going on. Or sexual orientation: straight or gay are preferences, and while I (intuitively) support a bimodal distribution in that case, it doesn't mean bisexuals are just kidding themselves.

But specific to MBTI, and I admit here I'm not well-read:

• I/E - fairly easy for most people to pick - strong bimodality
• S/N - definitely harder to choose (flatter distribution)
• T/F - maybe easier to choose for most people than S/N, but bimodal? I'm not convinced.
• J/P - famously confusing, and subject of this thread. I suspect flat or even central tendency.

Again, I'm very happy to update my intuition with empirical data, so feel free to enlighten me. Which one accepts criticism freely, is that INTJ or INTP? ...

 

[TimeAsylums]

Which one accepts criticism freely, is that INTJ or INTP? ...

Do not take my analysis(opinion) on this too seriously, but depending on the type of criticism, assuming it's constructive criticism, I'm going with INTP, simply p > j for that, and I know a few INTPs and only one INTJ, anyway, reading over ur post to answer the original question