INTP and the sense of failure

[Tyria]

I'm not sure if another thread is about this, but I wanted to ask a few questions anyway (main focus on INTPs):

1. Can you describe this sense of impending failure? Is it a feeling, a thought, a belief, something else entirely?

2. Does the sense of failure go away if you are successful in something that you think you will fail in?

3. What does the sense of failure apply to in your life (ex. work, job, love life, friends, etc.)?

4. If you are successful in overcoming this sense of failure, what did you do that helped you?

5. What can other MBTI types do to help INTPs' cope with that sense of failure?

 

[Astridian]

1. Can you describe this sense of impending failure? Is it a feeling, a thought, a belief, something else entirely?

I'd describe my own sense of impending failure as a feeling or vague belief. I find myself not investing too much faith in any particular idea because, basically, I could always learn later on that my initial model of that idea was flawed, that I overlooked something. To me, this failure would be symptomatic of hubris, which I believe to be a sin against rationality. It seems to be more of an intuitive thing than a particular thought. A way in which the nature of truth has presented itself to me.

2. Does the sense of failure go away if you are successful in something that you think you will fail in?

There are times which I manage to forget myself and drop my guard. I often regret it.

3. What does the sense of failure apply to in your life (ex. work, job, love life, friends, etc.)?

For me, it mostly applies to my love/social life; however, I also often find myself doubting my morals, intentions, and sense of self.

4. If you are successful in overcoming this sense of failure, what did you do that helped you?

My main defense against this sense of failure is to operate under the assumption that failure is probably going to happen, prepare myself for the inevitability, and try to emotionally distance myself from my effect on the world.

5. What can other MBTI types do to help INTPs' cope with that sense of failure?

I can't speak for all INTPs, but I could stand to be reminded that fixating on the possibility of failure tends to run counter to my goal of omniscience. Also, that in many practical endeavors it is actually more beneficial to act under partial knowledge, than to act slowly under more complete knowledge. Failure under such circumstances is less threatening as it is less an affront to reason than an occupational hazard of trying to be practical. Of course, having to try to be practical tends to wear me out, so having the opportunity to take sabbaticals away from real life is nice.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Yes.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

1. Can you describe this sense of impending failure? Is it a feeling, a thought, a belief, something else entirely?

An expectation born of past experiences.

2. Does the sense of failure go away if you are successful in something that you think you will fail in?

No, it gets worse.

3. What does the sense of failure apply to in your life (ex. work, job, love life, friends, etc.)?

Anything to do with luck.

4. If you are successful in overcoming this sense of failure, what did you do that helped you?

I minimised luck as a factor in my life.

5. What can other MBTI types do to help INTPs' cope with that sense of failure?

How should I know?

 

[Oblivious]

1. Can you describe this sense of impending failure? Is it a feeling, a thought, a belief, something else entirely?

I have learnt to stop caring about this. It is simply not productive in any way imaginable, this feeling of inescapable fear constantly lingering at the back of ones mind that will not be remedied save the obtainment of a Demon of Laplace.

My thinking now is a little like Anthile's. I do my best with the amount of resources allocated to me and accept the outcome as the outcome I chose with the best intentions. I force myself to expect nothing more.

2. Does the sense of failure go away if you are successful in something that you think you will fail in?

If I think I would fail it is usually with good reason. If I succeeded in spite of my expectations I would think I just got lucky and endeavour to re-examine my premises. My failure to predict the correct outcome would likely be just as a big a failure for me. I know its a catch-22.

3. What does the sense of failure apply to in your life (ex. work, job, love life, friends, etc.)?

I would do the logical, which is what most banks should have done, and take less risk and store up my reserves. If I expect to take a hit, I will prepare to recover from it. I would become more meticulous then dismissive, more shrewd then confident.

4. If you are successful in overcoming this sense of failure, what did you do that helped you?

I examined my expectations of myself realistically and not simply in terms of the infinite number of things that I could have done. I learnt to make a decision and hold my ground, defending it when necessary. I learnt to balance my wonder of possibilities with the discipline of a goal.

It is not just about what could be done, but also what you have done. The two come hand in hand.

5. What can other MBTI types do to help INTPs' cope with that sense of failure?

Understanding and encouragement. Patience and determination enough to unwind the intellectualism.

 

[Fleur]

Eh, the sense of failure is probably one of the main ghosts which have been haunting me since I remember myself. For me it is a premonition which is always present, regardless of how reasonable it really is.

The sense of failure does not cease and it applies to all of the spheres of my life. It is like a blanket which is sewn together from countless pieces of cloth - you can unstich a piece, but the blanket remains.

I have not overcome this sense; because of all the previous times I have become so frail I just try to avoid it by simply abandoning everything before I have a chance to fail, always expecting the worst and becoming completely indifferent to all the possible outcomes, even the desirable ones.

 

[Ermine]

I'm not sure if another thread is about this, but I wanted to ask a few questions anyway (main focus on INTPs):

1. Can you describe this sense of impending failure? Is it a feeling, a thought, a belief, something else entirely?

2. Does the sense of failure go away if you are successful in something that you think you will fail in?

3. What does the sense of failure apply to in your life (ex. work, job, love life, friends, etc.)?

4. If you are successful in overcoming this sense of failure, what did you do that helped you?

5. What can other MBTI types do to help INTPs' cope with that sense of failure?

1. It's my inner critic jabbering away, pretty much another version of me inside my head, but more talkative and cynical.

2. Sometimes. It depends on how much I succeed and how often. For example, I haven't had a sense of failure in academics in a very long time because I consistently do well. However, if I do well in something I usually don't do well, I tend to discredit the success, thinking that was a one time thing.

3. It means that I set strict limits on myself in areas I'm not confident in. For the most part, I am confident in everything I do. Either I have a history of doing well, or I think I have what I need to do well. An example that comes to mind for expecting failure is my virtually nonexistant love life. Just because of one embarrassing failure back in 8th grade, I'm holding myself back. It's really stupid stuff, but for some reason, the failure is just as real and serious as if it were yesterday. The pain and failure I felt then is keeping me from moving on and being a little more ambitious.

4. I just had to tell myself that I did well for a certain reason, that my success was not a mistake. It also helps to go over the success again and again and analyze it just as much as I analyze my failure. If I'm going to analyze, I should do it in a positive manner.

5. It would help for them to nudge me out of my comfort zone, provide encouragement, and help me analyze my success or lack of in a truly rational way, not let my inner critic get in the way too much. Also, it really helps for them to take me seriously. I do have a sense of failure in some areas for very stupid reasons. While other people can think that it's stupid, they need to realize that the emotions are just as real to me, regardless of the reasons.

 

[Jennywocky]

1. Can you describe this sense of impending failure? Is it a feeling, a thought, a belief, something else entirely?

Just a skepticism and even a fatalistic sense that things are doomed to go wrong, or that realistically nothing ever works as I expect or anticipate. It is inevitable that, since I won't control others, someone will do something to [perhaps inadvertently] undermine the desired outcome; and since I am not omniscient, I will have overlooked something; and, since whatever has a beginning has an end, even the things I love that are beautiful will one day wither and die.

In any sense, it is a fear of impending failure and foreboding that hangs over me sometimes. I expect the other shoe to drop, because that outcome seems inevitable.

2. Does the sense of failure go away if you are successful in something that you think you will fail in?

I get a nice rush and some confidence from successes in areas I was afraid to fail in... but it never completely goes away. I just become more confident in my ability to deal with problems and failures as they arise, I feel more personal efficacy... but am still aware I have limits.

3. What does the sense of failure apply to in your life (ex. work, job, love life, friends, etc.)?

Work, love, life goals, hobbies, anything. I often feel like I'll get fired, I fear the people I love will leave me (because I'll fail to be the person they want me to be), I fear the opportunities I seek will always be beyond my control.

Within these parameters, I can still seem very happy and experience joy... but there is always a bittersweetness to it as I feel the foreboding of failure.

4. If you are successful in overcoming this sense of failure, what did you do that helped you?

Like above, success in areas of foreboding helps recalibrate a bit and also lends a sense of potency to my agency as a person.

The other thing that helps is simply having learned to accept that everything ends and failure does occur sometimes out of my control.

There is nothing I can do to prevent it from happening. I mean, in the end, we all die, right? What I've learned to do is love life while I have it, and engage life as best as I can even if I'm aware at some point that failure or loss can occur.

5. What can other MBTI types do to help INTPs' cope with that sense of failure?

Not sure, it's mostly an internal shift.

I think sticking with the INTP through failures, NOT trying to always "brighten it up" for them but just being with them. Face it, an INTP sees lots of stuff and the negativity comes from rational honesty in many cases (as far as the INTP can tell)... so don't deny what the INTP is experiencing/perceiving, but DO encourage them to keep going, give positive ideas for how to overcome failures, teach them its okay to fail and that they shouldn't just disengage, etc.

 

[Death]

1. Can you describe this sense of impending failure? Is it a feeling, a thought, a belief, something else entirely?

All of above. Thought that my lack of efforts or quality I didn't have contributes to this failure and belief that I may not ever have the needed quality or could put enough effort in the future to succeed in that particular area.Depression and hopelessness is feeling I have with failure.

2. Does the sense of failure go away if you are successful in something that you think you will fail in?

I think that I will have the confidence to succeed in doing that something more but this will not improve my confidence in thing that I failed to do or achieve in past.

3. What does the sense of failure apply to in your life (ex. work, job, love life, friends, etc.)?

Yes,sometime I will over-analyze why I failed in one particular area so much,investing so much energy and resources into it that I failed to see what I achieved in other area.

4. If you are successful in overcoming this sense of failure, what did you do that helped you?

Accepting that failure is one of the outcome of an event.Paraphrasing Thomas Edison,failure is how you learn how not to do a particular thing.Most importantly be confident in putting myself in limelight and mature enough to know I am not destined to be failure if I did not do only one thing right.

YouTube- Famous Failures
YouTube- Always Look On The Bright Side of Life

5. What can other MBTI types do to help INTPs' cope with that sense of failure?

Everything jenny and ermine said,something that solve or attacks ()the core of the problem instead of mindlessly trying to cheer you up by superficial means.

 

[bovinity]

1. Can you describe this sense of impending failure? Is it a feeling, a thought, a belief, something else entirely?

It's my irrational belief that I am less competent than your average person in pretty much everything despite the fact that I frequently outsmart and outperform my classmates and impress my professors with my unique perspectives. This irrational belief causes me to project myself into the future, seeing only failures where others who are more flexible, adaptable, and "good at life" are succeeding.

2. Does the sense of failure go away if you are successful in something that you think you will fail in?

For a little while, then it comes back and I get stuck in a cycle of self-hatred until I prove myself wrong again. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

3. What does the sense of failure apply to in your life (ex. work, job, love life, friends, etc.)?

Minimal sociability, underachievement in areas I want to achieve well in, lack of certainty about certain aspects of adult life, etc.

4. If you are successful in overcoming this sense of failure, what did you do that helped you?

??

5. What can other MBTI types do to help INTPs' cope with that sense of failure?

They can recognize that our abilities and behavioral inclinations are different than most peoples' and should therefore not put as much pressure on us to achieve in areas we are not naturally "good" at so we can focus on areas of study and activies that we are inclined to excel in. This basically means that any ESFx should leave us right the fuck alone.

 

[Cogwulf]

1. Can you describe this sense of impending failure? Is it a feeling, a thought, a belief, something else entirely?

The worry that I'm going to something wrong that will lead to failure, and the fear that there could be something bad around every corner

2. Does the sense of failure go away if you are successful in something that you think you will fail in?

If I'm successful at a certain task on more than two consecutive occasions and a further non-consecutive occasion I more or less stop worrying about that task

3. What does the sense of failure apply to in your life (ex. work, job, love life, friends, etc.)?

It depends on the situation, but can appear at just about any time

4. If you are successful in overcoming this sense of failure, what did you do that helped you?

only as in #2.

5. What can other MBTI types do to help INTPs' cope with that sense of failure?

pretend to fail, or at least just perform slightly worse than the INTP at whatever the task it is

 

[VwllssWndr]

I'm not sure if another thread is about this, but I wanted to ask a few questions anyway (main focus on INTPs):

1. Can you describe this sense of impending failure? Is it a feeling, a thought, a belief, something else entirely?

Heh. Is there a difference? I think it's a synergistic relationship. Maybe even a vicious circle.

Thought -> Belief -> Feeling -> Thought...Maybe?

First you think of how you could fail. Then you believe that you might fail, or will fail. Then you have associated feelings of dread, hopelessness, irritability, etc., which inevitably leads to more thinking about the situation in order to prevent failure. (Could be through improving upon a plan or opting to avoid the endeavor entirely.)

2. Does the sense of failure go away if you are successful in something that you think you will fail in?

Not necessarily, there are too many variables. Past success doesn't imply future success in the same endeavor, much less in something else. Nothing is certain, and there's no "sure thing."

3. What does the sense of failure apply to in your life (ex. work, job, love life, friends, etc.)?

Life. I consider those other things to be sub-components that influence or reflect upon the whole.

4. If you are successful in overcoming this sense of failure, what did you do that helped you?

I think you have to accept that you might fail and work through it. You have to care enough to put forth enough effort to try and potentially succeed. "The old college try."

The real catch is putting forth the effort to try again after you've already failed.

5. What can other MBTI types do to help INTPs' cope with that sense of failure?

From personal experience? Not a lot. It's an internal struggle. A certain degree of "cheerleading" or external motivation might be helpful, but I find that no amount of positive thinking from someone else really helps too much. I just have to work through it on my own, ultimately. (Besides, "coaching" often really gets on my nerves.)

 

[Luzian]

This feeling of failure is simple. Have you actually done something in your life that didn't just occur in your head? That's what I thought.

 

[Dryad_0]

1. Can you describe this sense of impending failure? Is it a feeling, a thought, a belief, something else entirely?

It's a nagging feeling that I've missed something important, or that I've made a mistaken assumption and not given myself room for error.

2. Does the sense of failure go away if you are successful in something that you think you will fail in?

No. In those rare cases, I just got lucky.
But the more complete answer is that if I think I'd fail in something, I probably wouldn't put in enough effort to give myself a chance to succeed. Quit before failure.

3. What does the sense of failure apply to in your life (ex. work, job, love life, friends, etc.)?

Mostly schoolwork (college). I'm succeeding, but I still have a sense of impending doom.
Also social life. I can't find a lot of people worthy of friendship.
And love life. I haven't fallen in love yet. And I haven't tried. Maybe I just need to "jump into the shark-infested waters" in this case.

4. If you are successful in overcoming this sense of failure, what did you do that helped you?

I never really got the sense of failure to go away. I don't need to. All I need to do is make sure that this fear doesn't paralyze me. I try to see all the ways I could possibly fail, then prepare myself so I have a reasonably good chance of success and/or just prepare to accept failure.
Plus, one of my outlooks on life is that if you're not failing every so often, you're not improving yourself. Failure (in non-fatal amounts) is a chance to learn. Failure demonstrates that we are incompetent at something. It's up to me to decide whether or not I accept my incompetence or do something about it (usually the former).

5. What can other MBTI types do to help INTPs' cope with that sense of failure?

Help INTPs prepare for success.
Give some reassurance and a bit of motivation. Make it seem sincere, though, or you may as well not bother.
Finally, remind us of the big picture. Failure (in small doses) isn't bad. Go over the worst-case scenario, it can't be that bad.

 

[amorfati]

Can you describe this sense of impending failure? Is it a feeling, a thought, a belief, something else entirely?

It's an intuitive feeling of the inescapability of the conditions of existence. My greatest fear is eternity and the infinite possibilities (including the absolutely most horrifying ones) that exist. I fear that there may be no possible way of escaping suffering.

2. Does the sense of failure go away if you are successful in something that you think you will fail in?

It might be alleviated temporarly but it is destined to return (and it is the process of the return itself that I ultimately fear, namely the eternal return)

3. What does the sense of failure apply to in your life (ex. work, job, love life, friends, etc.)?

Absolutely everything.

4. If you are successful in overcoming this sense of failure, what did you do that helped you?

I practice acceptance.

5. What can other MBTI types do to help INTPs' cope with that sense of failure?

Listen to us. Acknowledge the validity of our way of looking at things. Never pity us though. We despise pity.

 

[Vrecknidj]

1. Can you describe this sense of impending failure? Is it a feeling, a thought, a belief, something else entirely?

For me, it is a feeling. It is an overwhelming sense of dread, eventually overcoming me and extending out to a nihilistic encompassing of all reality. It usually passes in a few hours, but, it has lasted for a good long time before. In some respects, for me, it resembles depression.

2. Does the sense of failure go away if you are successful in something that you think you will fail in?

Sometimes it is alleviated by this, yes.

3. What does the sense of failure apply to in your life (ex. work, job, love life, friends, etc.)?

I prefer presently not to respond.

4. If you are successful in overcoming this sense of failure, what did you do that helped you?

Dialogue, counseling, getting outside myself, getting outside my self-reflective inner tendencies.

5. What can other MBTI types do to help INTPs' cope with that sense of failure?

Be loving and kind and patient.

Dave