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In praise of the feelers. Let them come!

LucasM

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So, I have been thinking, like I always do about the reason we all are here which is the MBTI typing system. (obviously) After learning about it, and attempting to 'type' others, I like to think I have learnt something about this system. It is an interesting way of viewing others along with yourself, and as long as you realize that it is not perfect, and in no ways absolute, it is a splendid side route on our INTP journey for understanding.
So, far, I have come to realize that the P/J axis is the easiest (for me) to determine in another person I don't know well. For a P, it is all about the journey and all routes have validity. For a J, it is all about the destination, and there is one best way, usually the shortest way. Spend a few minutes talking to someone, and you will usually discern the difference.
Then, the N/S axis. I still am figuring things out, but I think one way of determining this is how well you understand one another. Talk about 'trees having personalities' or some other topic like that. If they understand, they may be N. If they think you are weird, they may be S.
And the I/E axis. In a social setting, this can be one of the harder things to determine. Usually, you'd think that the person alone in the corner is the I while those in the crowds are E. But, E's need alone time sometimes, and I's sometimes like to socialize. But once you know someone well, you can determine this too.
Which leaves the T/F axis. And I think this is the hardest.

I mistyped my brother (2nd oldest) as an F when in reality he was a T. (I got him to take the test, and on reflection, it is correct.) I know him well, and understand him well, him being a brother and fellow NT (ENTJ). And thus, I was able to see right through him to the emotions he kept bottled up inside, and I thought he was an F.

So this made me wonder, "What is a T and what is an F?"

A common misperception people have is equating
T = inTelligence/smart
F = Feeling/emotional

I know several F's quite well. F's can be very intelligent like T's can be very emotional. We all have the same type of brain, physically. We all have emotions.

It is in how we choose to deal with our emotions that T's and F's differ.

F's accept them, enjoy them, and can live with them (generally) while some T's say they are 'illogical' or some other rubbish like that.
I say that T's are just scared of the unknown, and as they don't intuitively understand emotions, they may be tempted to hide themselves in a sandcastle of T against the waves. A fruitless endeavour and ultimately self-defeating.
For the waves will come, will eventually overpower, and down the tower will come down in a crash.

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE

But since we don't intuitively understand this aspect of ourselves, what must be done? We learn by example, for through example is how we are taught.
Thus I say,

"Let the F's come!"

Some have joined this forum already, and for this, I am glad.

To you F's out there, "Come one and come all! Gut us with your feeler ways while we try, frantically, to fend you off with our defenses of logic and reason."
 

Da Blob

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That sounds so hot! ;)

You snails! Someone mentions feelers and your minds jumps (since your bodies can't)
to the same conclusion. There other kinds of feelers besides the kind that get entwined in (you-know-what)...
 

Jesin

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F's accept them, enjoy them, and can live with them (generally) while some T's say they are 'illogical' or some other rubbish like that.

The key word there is "some".

You snails! Someone mentions feelers and your minds jumps (since your bodies can't)
to the same conclusion. There other kinds of feelers besides the kind that get entwined in (you-know-what)...

Snail is an F.
 

Snail

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I think Da Blob means "feelers" in the snail sense.
 

dbtng_thomas

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Cool post, dude. I can only guess the types of just a handful of my closest friends. I'll try your methods.
 

Da Blob

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I think Da Blob means "feelers" in the snail sense.

Eek! I have been understood. what a novel and at the same time, frightening experience...
 

Jesin

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I think Da Blob means "feelers" in the snail sense.

Agh! I have attempted to correct someone and found out that it was I who was wrong! That does not happen often.

Hmm. May have something to do with this sleep deprivation. :p
 

Kuu

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It's nice to feel welcome here, since before I started coming online, my experiences with INTPs were mostly negative. I like the fact that normal, healthy INTPs are humble enough to admit error. It proves that the one I was in a relationship with was just an ass, but that wasn't anything I didn't already know from other behaviors. I'm still trying to figure out which of the things that bothered me about him were his personal flaws, and which were universal INTP characteristics. Mostly, what I am finding is that INTPs aren't that bad, in general. I am very seriously considering selecting another of your kind.
 

Da Blob

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Agh! I have attempted to correct someone and found out that it was I who was wrong! That does not happen often.

Hmm. May have something to do with this sleep deprivation. :p

I sympathize It has always been important to me (and perhaps other INTPians?) to be right. Yet no one recognized that 999 times out a thousand - I was right. This gave me almost innumerable opportunities to indulge in Na Na, Ya Na Na, I told Ya , I told Ya...

However, after the 12,540th rendition of that taunt it began to get old. and I replaced it with "That Look", I guess the worst part about that it after a while that I started to blame myself for others' stupidity. Maybe if I explained it differently, maybe I should have tried to establish a degree of trust etc etc.

In fact, I quick trying to correct people for several decades, it never seemed to work...
 

Luzian

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It's nice to feel welcome here, since before I started coming online, my experiences with INTPs were mostly negative. I like the fact that normal, healthy INTPs are humble enough to admit error. It proves that the one I was in a relationship with was just an ass, but that wasn't anything I didn't already know from other behaviors. I'm still trying to figure out which of the things that bothered me about him were his personal flaws, and which were universal INTP characteristics. Mostly, what I am finding is that INTPs aren't that bad, in general. I am very seriously considering selecting another of your kind.
Also realize there can be a world of difference between two INTPs. That difference is determined by how much you care to delve beyond the fundamentals of an INTP, and into the individual. The fundamentals are just the tools used in the construction of our personalities.
 

Melkor

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What?

But then I shan't be evil with occassional depression states!

AWAY WITH YE!!!!
 

GarmGarf

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A common misperception people have is equating
T = inTelligence/smart
F = Feeling/emotional

This is a good point to make. To prevent individuals from getting pissed off when I state that I believe that they are a "feeler" as opposed to a "thinker", I usually immediately afterwards state that this axis has nothing to do with one's level of intelligence; it is just that thinkers tend to make decisions objectively while feelers base their decisions on their values and how individuals will be emotionally affected. Also: "thinkers tolerate while feelers forgive".

F's accept them, enjoy them, and can live with them (generally) while some T's say they are 'illogical' or some other rubbish like that.

Emotions are invalid, and this statement is by no means "rubbish". To state that emotions are valid is to condone racism, sexism and all forms of unjustified hate.
 

LucasM

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Are emotions really invalid?
We all have them, and are in some ways influenced by them whether we desire to be or not.
Racism, sexism, and unjustified hate are extreme cases where emotional judgments are allowed to run rampant without any self control from the 'analytical' side of ourselves. You might argue just the opposite, where our emotional states are totally ignored in favour of pure unbiased (already an impossibility) subjective reasoning. The fact is, by doing so you ignore an important variable in our search for understanding. It is. And thus, your propositions, especially where humans are involved, become invalid.
(By arguing this, I already have bias. But I acknowledge the bias.)

Basically, the important thing to keep in mind is balance.

Logic is 'the study of reason', whereby inferences are made upon basic premises by which theorems can be produced. We must first have belief in the premises.
With emotions, it is also 'belief based'. Ie, a good feeling is associated with something good.
So, in a certain perspective, emotions can be thought of as 'logical'.
Here is an interesting article, and the website it is from.
Looks like good material for an engaging 'discussion'. :p

http://homepage.mac.com/billtomlinson/LogicofEmotionPaper.html
http://homepage.mac.com/billtomlinson/LOE3.html
 

Da Blob

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Are emotions really invalid?
We all have them, and are in some ways influenced by them whether we desire to be or not.
Racism, sexism, and unjustified hate are extreme cases where emotional judgments are allowed to run rampant without any self control from the 'analytical' side of ourselves. You might argue just the opposite, where our emotional states are totally ignored in favour of pure unbiased (already an impossibility) subjective reasoning. The fact is, by doing so you ignore an important variable in our search for understanding. It is. And thus, your propositions, especially where humans are involved, become invalid.
(By arguing this, I already have bias. But I acknowledge the bias.)

Basically, the important thing to keep in mind is balance.

Logic is 'the study of reason', whereby inferences are made upon basic premises by which theorems can be produced. We must first have belief in the premises.
With emotions, it is also 'belief based'. Ie, a good feeling is associated with something good.
So, in a certain perspective, emotions can be thought of as 'logical'.
Here is an interesting article, and the website it is from.
Looks like good material for an engaging 'discussion'. :p

http://homepage.mac.com/billtomlinson/LogicofEmotionPaper.html
http://homepage.mac.com/billtomlinson/LOE3.html
I read the first paper and it was enlightening. However, there also "irrational" sources for emotion that little or nothing to do with higher level thinking.
It is the common belief that emotions are based upon the relatively, primitive part of the brain termed the Mammalian or Primate brain or by others as the Endocrine system.
(E)motions are supposedly the things that move us and provide 'motivation'. However, emotional states are often the product of a relationship with another. They can be easily manipulated by that Other, who may be practicing that ancient "Dark Art" of emotional deception/manipulation.
I am a 'T ' rather than an 'F' because I have learned that my own emotions cannot be trusted, for one reason or another, and I have an almost envious attitude towards those who have led the kind of lives that allow them to believe that emotions can be trusted...
 

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I feel that my emotions are trustworthy. I use them to fine-tune my value system, which utterly rejects prejudices such as those GarmGarf mentioned. I do this by waiting until I have a feeling, then checking it against what I believe I should feel. If the two are not consistent, I re-analyze why I believe I should feel otherwise. If it does not make sense or is inconsistent with the rest of my values, particularly the foundations of the value system, I alter the value until it is properly aligned. If the reason makes sense and retains an internal consistency with the rest of the value system, I figure out why I am feeling inappropriately, which usually comes down to one of three basic spiritual flaws: insufficient faith, insufficient hope, or insufficient love. When I discover the core of the error, I can work to change the spiritual flaw in order to change the emotion. I continue focusing on appropriate attitudes until the actual emotion aligns with the value system again.

By taking my feelings seriously, I am able to self-check and to progress toward my ideal, which is, itself, refined according to new information. The Feeling preference prevents stagnation and promotes self-awareness. It is probably similar to the methods you INTPs use, only yours would involve the analysis of external observations, which are repeatedly checked against the existing conceptual framework and arranged to maintain consistency.
 

hopefulmonster

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I feel that my emotions are trustworthy. I use them to fine-tune my value system, which utterly rejects prejudices such as those GarmGarf mentioned. I do this by waiting until I have a feeling, then checking it against what I believe I should feel. If the two are not consistent, I re-analyze why I believe I should feel otherwise. If it does not make sense or is inconsistent with the rest of my values, particularly the foundations of the value system, I alter the value until it is properly aligned. If the reason makes sense and retains an internal consistency with the rest of the value system, I figure out why I am feeling inappropriately, which usually comes down to one of three basic spiritual flaws: insufficient faith, insufficient hope, or insufficient love. When I discover the core of the error, I can work to change the spiritual flaw in order to change the emotion. I continue focusing on appropriate attitudes until the actual emotion aligns with the value system again.


It's not a matter of if Feeling is trustworthy or not but when it's appropriate. Feeling is the best preference in situations where people,values, and harmony are involved and thinking is better when you need to work out a solution to a more objective problem. Both preferences have their place.
 

Snail

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Yes, I agree completely. The ultimate goals may involve making sure people and values are protected, but in order to achieve those goals, Thinkers are necessary.
 

hopefulmonster

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Yes, I agree completely. The ultimate goals may involve making sure people and values are protected, but in order to achieve those goals, Thinkers are necessary.

I think another common misconception people have about the two preferences is that you need to stick to one preference or the other at all times. I think katherine briggs explicitly stated that this is an example of very unhealthy character development.

I believe feelers have the advantage in this regards. I have not talked to a feeler yet who thought logic was poisonous like so many thinkers seem to think. Or acted like they were betraying their type by using the opposite perference.
 

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I used to when I was a child, but I grew up as my value system was refined.
 

hopefulmonster

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I used to when I was a child, but I grew up as my value system was refined.


Really? Did you have a bias against the preference it's self or was it more of an aversion to the people using it?
 

Snail

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Both. I was still blending everything together, before I had ever heard of MBTI, and I considered T qualities and SJ qualities to be connected somehow. I associated feeling with creativity and intelligence, and associated "logic" and "objectivity" with the rigid, unimaginative school system, which was actually promoting SJ values. I loved anything that didn't have a specific "right answer," which seemed to lean more to the F side of things than the T side.
 

hopefulmonster

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Both. I was still blending everything together, before I had ever heard of MBTI, and I considered T qualities and SJ qualities to be connected somehow. I associated feeling with creativity and intelligence, and associated "logic" and "objectivity" with the rigid, unimaginative school system, which was actually promoting SJ values. I loved anything that didn't have a specific "right answer," which seemed to lean more to the F side of things than the T side.

Interesting. I pretty much just labeled people as dumb/smart or"artsy" which was an enigmatic group that while not dumb were beyond comprehension. I realize now that the smart was made of NT's, the dumb group were those oppressive SJs and the mysterious artsy people were NF's.
 

Snail

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Yes, you INTPs make finer distinctions than I did. I figure mine was more of a "like me" vs. "not like me" thing, and within the "not like me" category were all types containing the SJ combination, or a T. The "like me" category consisted of the ENFPs, ENFJs, ESFPs, ISFPs, INFPs, and INFJs.
 

Da Blob

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I feel that my emotions are trustworthy. I use them to fine-tune my value system, which utterly rejects prejudices such as those GarmGarf mentioned. I do this by waiting until I have a feeling, then checking it against what I believe I should feel. If the two are not consistent, I re-analyze why I believe I should feel otherwise. If it does not make sense or is inconsistent with the rest of my values, particularly the foundations of the value system, I alter the value until it is properly aligned. If the reason makes sense and retains an internal consistency with the rest of the value system, I figure out why I am feeling inappropriately, which usually comes down to one of three basic spiritual flaws: insufficient faith, insufficient hope, or insufficient love. When I discover the core of the error, I can work to change the spiritual flaw in order to change the emotion. I continue focusing on appropriate attitudes until the actual emotion aligns with the value system again.

By taking my feelings seriously, I am able to self-check and to progress toward my ideal, which is, itself, refined according to new information. The Feeling preference prevents stagnation and promotes self-awareness. It is probably similar to the methods you INTPs use, only yours would involve the analysis of external observations, which are repeatedly checked against the existing conceptual framework and arranged to maintain consistency.

These are good points. I have been exposed to a lot of attempts of manipulation of my feelings by Others. Usually this takes the form of being made to feel Defensive/Inadequate. I realized at some point that I was simply taking the bait - falling into their trap by reacting that way. I was being robbed of initiative in the "relationship '/conversation. I found that I had a long established mental rut/bad habit involving low Self-esteem.
It was only after I matured, that I realized that knee-jerk reactions to emotionally-charged 'messages', were ultimately self-defeating. So I became an Actor instead of a Reactor, and I do have a process, something like yours, that allows me to reflect on possible aspects of my immaturity and there by indulge, by adaptation to change, in a process of personal growth.
 

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feckn_eejit

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this beats the heck out of the infp forums... might get to exercise my brain a bit! granted everything that comes out of it will be irrational, illogical, etc etc but I'll have fun trying to keep up!
 

Artifice Orisit

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Feckn, you'll fit right in... just stand over there with IB, Melor & NoID10ts; I'll be over soon :D

I mistrust these feelings, they seek to betray me.

They would have me make rash decisions & take fruitless risks,
but nothing done with logic is ever wrong, merely ill considered.

There are many examples of mistakes made from excessive emotion,
refute me with an example of logical reasoning being the cause.
 

feckn_eejit

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Thanks for the warm welcome :p

I feel like an odd-ball in most scenes, even amoungst a gaggle of INFPs... Curiously, this looks to be a bit more my speed. Perhaps I have a superior inferior function. Ha ha. But seriously, folks! I feel like I kind of understand and feel for the INTP "condition", if you like... looks like quite a gift while a considerable burden at the same time. Perhaps if I get comfortable here I might expound upon my observations some time...

As for your challenge... I can't; you will out-logic me every time. It's funny, I feel (haha) that I am fairly intelligent and have a great capacity for the appreciation of the logic and reasoning of others. I can turn my perception on myself effortlessly and see what is ridiculous about my behaviour and decision making processes. That said, it seems to me that I fall down the hardest when I distrust my instinct and "gut feeling", try to develop my own logic, fail miserably, and end up immobilized. I very quickly become paralyzed by all the possible parameters and permutations. Turns out most of the time my gut is right. I know I am not giving you substantial evidence here, you'd just have to trust me ;)

Basically I stupidly and blindly believe, similar to how people stupidly and blindly believe in "God" (can't imagine I will offend too many here with that one but if so I apologise...), that feeling and emotional response are here to balance out thinking and logical response. My gut tells me that Mother Nature is quite the engineer, and I get the impression that she isn't in the habit of foisting the unnecessary upon this ecosystem. Humans on the other hand...

Anyway, as a result of this belief, it seems to me that to dismiss one or the other is to dismiss balance, therefore limiting your perspective in such a way that you cannot possibly see The Whole Picture. My impression is that most aren't even equipped to really take this concept onboard, thus being unable to make the choice, therefore defaulting into whichever "mode" comes more easily to them. If you are an emotional basketase, you can only see a problem from 10,000-20,000ft. If you are only a brutally logical thinker, you can only see a problem from 0-10,000ft. If you can figure out how to master and balance the two, you can see from 0-30,000ft. With more tools, or perhaps "viewing angles"/"zoom ranges" at your disposal, the palette of perceptive range at your disposal increases exponentially.

I am not trying to say that I have achieved this frankly ridiculously idealistic balance. I'm pretty sure it's not even possible. But, by being aware of your own limitations and the limitations of others, and at the same time being cognizant and appreciative of the strengths and positive attributes others posses, perhaps we can figure out how to more effectively share and collaborate to help each other see The Whole Picture.
 

Mud~Eye

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What if feelings are good indicators, like physical pain, as to the need for something to attend to. In the same vein as described above (Mother Nature is quite the engineer, and I get the impression that she isn't in the habit of foisting the unnecessary upon this ecosystem. - f.e.), there is a reason for the existance of emotions. Further, to say there is no purpose for something that does actually exist makes no sense at all. I, too, cannot "trust" my emotions, when trust means that I need to make a decision based on my immediate interpretation of my feelings. Often, this underdeveloped part of me is irrational, intense, or, at times, seemingly non existant.

I am currently dealing with a situation in my life where I am having to once again examine my feelings as they seemingly contradict logic and reason. However, this time, with the information newly gleened from the Myers-Brigg theory, I am more willing to consider the validity of the emotions, while still remaining the skeptic that I truly am. I am lead to question my initial understanding of the intent of these feelings. Perhaps when I "feel" I want a particular thing that is ultimately not beneficial to me, say in the long run or even in the short term, then I have misunderstood the "message" of the feeling, because of my own immaturity in "dealing" with feelings.

If I am a city, and my feelings are but one community within that city and I stretch myself to consider that despite past uphevals and riots, and even brief moments of chaotic reign, they are a people that need to be heard and understood, then I can further consider that maybe the message they want to relate to me is for my good, if I would stop making immediate assumptions based on only my past experiences, which is something the Myers Brigg theory does warn us about. (Breathe) I don't feel like looking it up to include a specific quote. Say what you want. To paraphrase the idea, if I understand it correctly, if INTPs do not extend their knowledge beyond personal experiences we are narrowing what could be considered, and thus limiting possiblities, which we do not want to do in most cases. What if previous chaotic overthrow has been a direct result of not listening, not understanding, and not at all considering our internal emotional community as valid. Does not every part desire to bring something to the table? Must we assume their offering to be malicious, just because we have not behaved well in the past?

I agree that, within reason, outside examples are helpful and healthy. And, we could learn alot about ourselves and those we come in contact with who are not like us. Perhaps, then, they will accompany us to the mother ship.

Oh, and Cog Re: "There are many examples of mistakes made from excessive emotion, refute me with an example of logical reasoning being the cause."

I can only reply thus, reduntantly, the limiting of possibilities when information is ignored, because we fear that it might screw up our pristine results. I think it's safe to say that has happened, historically. The question then becomes, can we accept or seek to understand how feelings may, in some way, be a legitamate factor?

BTW hello everyone and thanks for making a place to play.
 

feckn_eejit

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Perhaps we are getting "feelings"/emotions confused with plain impulse. I think we all have impulsive, often irrational desires - i.e. things which we Just Know Aren't Good For Us. But do we arrive to the conclusion that they Just Aren't Good For Us based on the fact that they are illogical/do not appear to serve a purpose, or because we worry about how giving into that desire might negatively impact our emotional state/well-being down the road? For me, it's the latter...

Maybe Sensors spend more time waiting for their Senses to gather sufficient data for them to start to process, while we iNtuitors are more prone to significant chunks of data just suddenly becoming clear/obvious, so we get to set off to the "processing" stage straight away. Maybe the T/F continuum determines how we prefer to process the data our iNtuition provides us with?

For me, processing input essentially boils down to how does this make me feel? Does it excite me? Does it make me want to run far away? Does it make me happy, sad, angry, scared, confused, jealous, hopeless, hopeful, peaceful? Does it jive with my Core Values/Belief System? How I act/react is based on that sort of filter set... thing is none of it is straightforward and it is hugely dependent on a number of factors such as my general mood at the time, the present physical environment, "vibe" of the people around me, etc etc. It's very much a fluid, contextual thing... always relative, never absolute. I imagine it comes off as wishy washy, fickle, unreliable and indecisive... I'm guilty as charged on all counts!

At the end of the day, I find it easier to forgive myself for following my heart down the wrong path when the alternative is daftly following my fuzzy logic into a black hole...
 

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Finally went and read this whole thread in detail... sorry for adding a bunch of redundancy... that said I think I did re-state the same principles a bit differently so hopefully that's interesting/illuminating to someone!
 

Mud~Eye

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Shit, there is a difference between impulse and emotion. O'well, back to the drawing board.
 

loveofreason

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Talk more feckn!

What does it feel like to be an NF feeler?
 

feckn_eejit

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Waaaah waaaaaaaaah :P

I think if I could explode the Whole Experience out to its component parts and explain it, I wouldn't be a NF!

But seriously... are you looking for a comedy answer or an at-least-half-serious attempt to explain what I feel is the "NF Condition" as it applies to me? If it's the former, any answer I give you would be subject to change along with my mood - probably 5, maybe 10 minutes max :P If it's the latter, it's 05h30 here and my insomnia will only take me so far, I'll have to go there later!
 

loveofreason

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Well, I seriously want to know.

I want to know if what I imagine is depth of feeling is truly just a shadow of the NF world.... or if in fact I experience emotion as richly as you... if so, what makes us different?

But any humour along the path is greatly admired.
 

feckn_eejit

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edit: hi Fukyo! I love the quote in your signature, so true :D
edit2: holy cow it's 06h50 now, guess I should go contribute to the insomnia thread :P

In response to loveofreason:

Well I will give this a good run here before I pass out...

If I had to sum things up, I feel like there are about sixty-seven million angles to every situation, nothing worth expending time/energy on is simple, and for me it's easier to choose how I feel than what I think about something.

To go a little more in depth...

I think the main thing that makes us different is how we internally experience and process things. I think where we are on the T/F spectrum also affects how we naturally communicate with and deal with people as well. I try to constantly put myself in everyone else's shoes before I open my mouth, more often than not to my own detriment. I feel that NTs are more likely to look out for themselves first - not a bad thing, as I have said I truly believe it takes all kinds... not to say that I don't enjoy a good argument or debate - the way I see it is that the worst thing that can happen is somebody's perspective might be expanded a tad and I honestly don't care who "wins", while most others who enjoy arguing/debating seem intent on winning, so it's nice to be able to give them that so easily. Unfortunately, moderately intelligent "sparring partners" catch on that I am "letting" them win and become extremely frustrated that while I can see their perspective perfectly I will not acquiesce my own position, which they see as stalemate... why not just take it as expanded perspective?

My gut tells me we all have the capacity to experience deep, rich emotion... I guess NF's are more likely to get, say, "carried away" with it compared to an NT. For example if I am really sad and feel like having a good cry in bed, I won't even try to talk myself out of it - I'll keep it together long enough to cancel any appointments/commitments I may have so I can go home and do what I feel like doing... just going through the process of feeling the emotion is so deeply cathartic and satisfying that it's as if the problem has been solved... other times a good hug from someone whom I know cares and understands can be invaluable as well.

On the other side of the coin, if I'm doing/experiencing something that fills me with happiness or joy, absolutely nothing can distract me from holding onto whatever it might be that's filling me with those emotions, even if what I'm doing is dangerous, stupid, might have negative long-term repercussions... etc etc.

Basically, emotionally rich experiences are Priority One, while anything else is rather boring in comparison. It's not that I don't enjoy exercising my mind -- quite the contrary -- but it's the feeling I get from what comes out of it that makes it worthwhile sending some blood up to my brain.

I can spend days straight in daydream mode, not accomplish a single thing in the Real World, and I won't feel like I wasted a minute. Often, things I play with in daydream mode end up helping me in the real world. My inner imaginative world is so deep and convoluted and complex it would take hours to really explain it..... but basically it can do anything and I can do anything in it. It's hugely satisfying and damn near as good as The Real Thing, no joke.

On the other hand it can go sideways and I can be sad, depressed, and totally unproductive for days straight. Obviously, this is a lot less enjoyable but still not a waste of time as while it usually isn't clear in the moment it usually becomes clear later (sometimes much later - years maybe!) what I was going through and helps me to find pieces of the puzzle...

Emotions whether "good" or "bad" are my source of energy so I can go out and face the stuff I "have to" do, which simply must work around what I feel like doing first. If my alarm goes off in the morning and I look at my schedule for the day and am dreading what I'm supposed to do, it's massively depressing and close to impossible to rip myself out of bed no matter how much money I might make... what eventually gets me up and out to do things I don't want is the guilt I'd feel for letting people down. If I am depressed and feeling just "empty" I am like a discharged battery... I have nothing to give. I can act if I have "good" or "bad" emotions charging me but I'm useless if I've got nothing.

In order to remain functional, I have to really watch out to make sure I don't over-commit myself to things I am not excited about doing as too much of this is a guaranteed recipe for a nice heavy stint of depression. If I ignore my emotional responses I feel dead... basically I have have the choice to either let my emotions run the show and I'd be homeless playing music on the streets (god that sounds so fun and liberating, no joke!) or I can work to embrace the situation for what it is and arrange life around my emotional requirements.

I'm quite a fish out of water in my current profession. [heh heh, side note, I'm a Pisces and have to admit to being a bit of an astrology buff as well] Luckily, things have fallen very nicely into place and I am able to keep myself off the streets while at the same time rarely having to compromise on my principles... and when I have to, there is usually a long-term play to it and I can see light at the end of the tunnel... which for some reason even when things are really bleak, that light always shows up when I need it most and gives me something to run for which is all I need.

Guess I should expand a bit on my profile "occupation" here - I'm an IT consultant with an emphasis on redundant network and server infrastructure. I love exploring the possibilities offered by the sweet gear I get to play with and applying my creative assembly of the design/configuration/parts to effectively solve business problems and reduce TCO, but most importantly for me, reduce people's stress and frustration caused by their bloody computers! My favourite interactions with customers are random "hey can you come look at this?" moments where I can do something in 30 seconds that really helps them out. The appreciation is truly gratifying!

Fewf, I feel like my writing and communication is getting worse as I go on here and I really need to stop. Sorry for the deteriorating grammar and sentence structure.

So, how does all this sit in the NT mind? Have I been on the right track relative to your line of questioning? Try to explain to me what you imagine is depth of feeling!

Not sure I sprinkled much humour in there but I love to laugh... makes things so much more bearable! You INTPs tend to have a killer dark sense of humour which I find most entertaining!
 

Fukyo

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My gut tells me we all have the capacity to experience deep, rich emotion... I guess NF's are more likely to get, say, "carried away" with it compared to an NT. For example if I am really sad and feel like having a good cry in bed, I won't even try to talk myself out of it - I'll keep it together long enough to cancel any appointments/commitments I may have so I can go home and do what I feel like doing... just going through the process of feeling the emotion is so deeply cathartic and satisfying that it's as if the problem has been solved... other times a good hug from someone whom I know cares and understands can be invaluable as well.

On the other side of the coin, if I'm doing/experiencing something that fills me with happiness or joy, absolutely nothing can distract me from holding onto whatever it might be that's filling me with those emotions, even if what I'm doing is dangerous, stupid, might have negative long-term repercussions... etc etc.

Basically, emotionally rich experiences are Priority One, while anything else is rather boring in comparison. It's not that I don't enjoy exercising my mind -- quite the contrary -- but it's the feeling I get from what comes out of it that makes it worthwhile sending some blood up to my brain.

I can spend days straight in daydream mode, not accomplish a single thing in the Real World, and I won't feel like I wasted a minute. Often, things I play with in daydream mode end up helping me in the real world. My inner imaginative world is so deep and convoluted and complex it would take hours to really explain it..... but basically it can do anything and I can do anything in it. It's hugely satisfying and damn near as good as The Real Thing, no joke.

On the other hand it can go sideways and I can be sad, depressed, and totally unproductive for days straight. Obviously, this is a lot less enjoyable but still not a waste of time as while it usually isn't clear in the moment it usually becomes clear later (sometimes much later - years maybe!) what I was going through and helps me to find pieces of the puzzle...


Exactly.
Very well put,it really relates to me as an INFP.
 

loveofreason

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Hey, great!

Confirmed INFP perceptions!

I'm going to have to sleep before I can do your responses any justice. I really appreciate them.


hmm... but off the cuff... your world works well when you ride your emotions? Like surfing?

I see the same ocean, but my world falls apart when I trust the waves....

*landlubber is very sad about that*
 

feckn_eejit

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No worries, I look forward to reconvening when we are rested. Thanks for the kind words.

More like it ONLY works when I ride the waves... otherwise I'm miserable. My world falls apart if I try to use logic and reason - my brain just isn't fast enough and it gets muddled with all the details.

There's no reason to be sad - there's plenty of opportunity to learn about "the other side", and while you may not be a professional surfer that doesn't mean you can't get better and maybe even enjoy it on vacation a few times a year!

It really truly does take all 16 of us types to make the world go 'round...
 
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