COMMAND

[Fukyo]

I want some popcorn!

And people,please...stop replying to XIII,your attention is just fuel for his insane ramblings.

 

[NoID10ts]

And people,please...stop replying to XIII,your attention is just fuel for his insane ramblings.

^ What she said. If we ignore it, maybe it will go away. It's like a rash, scratch it and it will get worse.

 

[preilemus]

maybe I should keep my thoughts to myself

 

[didyouknow]

But I was having fun making sarcastic remarks...

*eats popcorn in silence*

 

[XIII]

I want some popcorn!

And people,please...stop replying to XIII,your attention is just fuel for his insane ramblings.

Offer a superior perspective. State your own aesthetic more elegantly.

If you do so, I shall post no more and attempt to recreate your own perspective within myself.

-----------------

I require a higher standard from my audience than has thus far been achieved. You (barring the few lurking who are attempting to solve the puzzle without jumping to premature conclusions) are all missing the fundamentals of the plot, confusing one character with another, and forgetting that the scene has changed.

This is not a story to be absorbed passively. Assumption leads to misapprehension. Reacting to a single comment or thread removed from the context of the whole is like forming an opinion about Joyce from one short story from a specific character's perspective.

Play harder.

What does the collective response thus far show? A lack of ability in conceptual games outside of specific contexts. Limited intellect, bound by the superficial presentation of concepts and unable to grasp underlying structure removed from grotesquely irrelevant abstraction. You dance one way on command. You dance the other in accordance with the gamemaster's imperative.

You are as marionettes.

But I was having fun making sarcastic remarks...

Seriously... I wrote a fucking poem for you.

 

[XIII]

I'm not just reposting this so that it gets seen; lor merged my last post of it with a critique of anthile. That didn't seem right. Please leave this post separate. Oblivion, this is my metaphorical definition of God. Anybody who interpreted my God metaphors literally simply lacks intelligence:

Architects Unbound

Rising
Architects with no cause and creed-unbound,
Arising from twilight realms beyond mind,
Dancing ecstatic to vision of sound,
Beyond my self yet living through my mind,

Paradox in my worlds yet sense in theirs,
Stasis shattered, shards mended to their rhyme,
I am now he who lives outside your time,
Alien but in love with your small cares.

Sense imploding, sound as vision
Time extending, lost soul risen
Worlds now merging, human death.

Avatar born. Godhood.
Descending.

 

[Jules]

Why have you chosen to ignore my simple question?
You refuse to admit to making assumptions or you refuse to admit to not recognizing multiple perspectives?
Do you prefer I use more words to explain what you already claim to know?

 

[XIII]

Why have you chosen to ignore my simple question?
You refuse to admit to making assumptions or you refuse to admit to not recognizing multiple perspectives?
Do you prefer I use more words to explain what you already claim to know?

May have been a confusion in communication. Getting lots of quesitons and comments, so inevitably going to forget about a few of them.

 

[Kuu]

I could not believe in a God that was not myself.

 

[XIII]

Well aren't you a little Nietzsche?


Additionally, if you read back through my metaphor, you'll see that I conceptualise ''Gods'' as something separate from my human personality. If I were to state this in more measure terms, I would say they are really profound and visionary modes of perception which are probably latent in many human brains, or which could be induced with the aid of much neurological tampering.

''God'', being a multiordinal term, should be interpreted metaphorically in the context of this thread. It's just the only word I can use to express the profunding and difference from normal, consensual reality of my experience.

 

[Tyria]

I like this post. My previously made points stand, by I retract my more personal comments regarding your nature.

What you must bear in mind, here, is that I am presenting an essential prerequisite to commandment and greatness. I am excluding the mention of such additional tools as empathy, love, and open mindedness because, while all are invaluable, they would dilute the purity of the message.

People such as Anthile, who believe that this represents the entirety of my opinion and conception, fail to recognise that in order to break from common conception an initial extremity is necessary.
If I had presented this in terms of moral and cultural standards more familiar to readers, it would lose its worth and impact. It is meant to tear, break, and shatter. It is not meant to lead gently by the hand. Once the calcified culture of modern society has been ripped violently from the heart, then open mindedness and compassion may be relearned.

With regards to the watering hole metaphor: forms and forms. Games and games. Marionettes. Experiments. Descent to take the few by the hand and pull them back up towards my heaven.

Thank you, it is good to be liked I guess. When you first posted I was just very suprised because it didn't seem like the 'you' that I thought I knew from the forum. I am still having a hard time understanding this XIII, but it gives an interesting perspective about you that I would not have known otherwise. I will try my hand a bit to play along (several assumptions being made in the process), although I am unsure if I will do a good enough job for my own tastes. Forgive me if I am not as good, I worked longer today than I usually do

I am the arc, the vessel against Triskaidekaphobia.
While Avatar descends from heaven
To watch vision unfold into utopia
It will not carry its new brethren.
From sense of sound and strength of word
New creatures of godhood come to be
Yet still do they flounder in the raging sea
Of commonness and mediocrity
Unless the arc comes to take them to thee
How can these god children truly be free?
Avatar, when do I depart?

 

[Oblivious]

XIII: God is a very loaded word. I cannot emphasize this enough.

You should not use it lightly. intps are known to be flexible, however if you are offending that 1% of the population who happen to be the most flexible people on the planet, enlightening the rest of them is unlikely. You should have spent a greater amount of time in your opening post expounding on this before doing anything else, otherwise it allows people to assume. This is called speech writing, and lesser known as common courtesy.

They will assume, but the fault will not lie with them since you have not made yourself clear.

To a lot of people, being a God is about having the ability to love above all else. Having the ability to transcend their mortal desires like pride and security to focus on more abstract ones like love.

In all honestly, I find it hard to abide by a God or Avatar who is bound so much by ego as to respond to insult as you have in this thread. If you cannot even set aside something as basic as pride, what right have you to even call yourself an Angel?

Everyday I single-mindedly subject myself to ego death simply because it allows me to work efficiently without interference. I am telling you, it is nothing divine; it is called being an adult. I am a mortal and so are you.

It does not matter if they have sinned against you, if you repeat their sins against them, you have fallen into temptation and lost the moral high ground. I honestly expected more from you. If you mean what you say, and you are indeed intent on enlightening the masses and this first thread is your first attempt, then excuse me, but you have failed, and its not because this forum is closed minded.

In reality it is quite the opposite. This forum represents a collection of views and mindsets so diverse and rich that you will find yourself hard pressed to find anything like it anywhere else on the internet. We have secularists and Christians having tolerant intellectual discussion where all parties are respectful of each others views.

If this is something you have missed, then the one who is blind is you.

XIII, just face it.

You are the salesman in this thread.
You have the burden of proof.
You are the proposition.

A condescending one, I might add. If you have not seen that, you need to work on your objective detachment. If you must interfere in the natural order of things, it is my duty to ensure that what you are doing does not poison the system. My opinion so far is as you have seen.

 

[dbell92]

.

 

[Kidege]

You belittled Tekton?
And Crimsom Knight's nicely crafted post?

I'm with didyouknow in this, pass the popcorn.

Edit:

Ethics before aesthetics, thank you very much.

 

[Mute]

It does not matter if they have sinned against you, if you repeat their sins against them, you have fallen into temptation and lost the moral high ground. I honestly expected more from you. If you mean what you say, and you are indeed intent on enlightening the masses and this first thread is your first attempt, then excuse me, but you have failed, and its not because this forum is closed minded.

In reality it is quite the opposite. This forum represents a collection of views and mindsets so diverse and rich that you will find yourself hard pressed to find anything like it anywhere else on the internet. We have secularists and Christians having tolerant intellectual discussion where all parties are respectful of each others views.

If this is something you have missed, then the one who is blind is you.

XIII, just face it.

You are the salesman in this thread.
You have the burden of proof.
You are the proposition.

A condescending one, I might add. If you have not seen that, you need to work on your objective detachment. If you must interfere in the natural order of things, it is my duty to ensure that what you are doing does not poison the system. My opinion so far is as you have seen.

@bolded

I disagree.

 

[didyouknow]

Seriously... I wrote a fucking poem for you.

God said a naughty word!!

 

[EloquentBohemian]

Why this meekness? From you, it repulses me.

You are the few gifted with the divine light of reason, capable of recreating culture and perception in the image of your rare genius. Yet, you hide away in this dungeon complaining of your alienation?

You would prefer to be mediocre and well understood? You would prefer to yield the burden of your insight?

Look at the herd around you.

LOOK at them. They are asleep. They are as common animals. They are barely conscious, unable to see past the conceptual frameworks which they inherited, but which were determined and manipulated by minds such as yours.

Minds such as yours, but with courage.

Your self-pity, your willingness to play the victim, your tragic loneliness...

Cowardice.

Perhaps you mistake meekness and cowardice for patience and discipline.

Simulated disorder postulates perfect discipline, simulated fear postulates courage; simulated weakness postulates strength. (ch.5 v.17 The Art of War: Sun Tzu)

Hiding order beneath the cloak of disorder is simply a question of subdivision; concealing courage under a show of timidity presupposes a fund of latent energy; masking strength with weakness is to be effected by tactical dispositions. (ch.5 v.18 The Art of War: Sun Tzu)

You have the gift of Gods, yet, when among them, you act as if were a curse. Meek, retiring. This is not your rightful role. You are the justification of humanity. Its pettiness and ugliness is forgiven by the divinity within the few conscious souls such as yourself. Yet you hide.

The wolf feeds not by claiming itself a wolf, rather by convincing its prey it is a sheep.

Ponder and deliberate before you make a move. (ch.7 v.21 The Art of War: Sun Tzu)

He will conquer who has learnt the artifice of deviation. Such is the art of maneuvering. (ch.7 v.22 The Art of War: Sun Tzu)

You submit to the automatic systems of the unconscious herd. You refuse to admit, in action, that they are not alive to the same world as you. They are a game. You have it within you to beat their game and enlist them in the manifestation of your vision, yet you willingly surrender? Your meekness is the death of your vision. Without the strength and courage to command, your reason and imagination are impotent.

Why would I wish to "beat their game". The lesson is to possess patience and quiet observation. Examine the systems within and without. Discover their weakest points so as to strike with the least expense of energy.
Every artifice is constructed upon a cornerstone. Discover this cornerstone. Remove this cornerstone and the edifice will destroy itself.
This is the way of patience and wisdom.

What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. (ch.4 v.11 The Art of War: Sun Tzu)

Hence his victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom nor credit for courage. (ch.4 v.12 The Art of War: Sun Tzu)

Impotent. Made to create, yet failing to do so.


COMMAND.

The wise man learns from the masters of the past, bringing their wisdom and experience into the vision of the future.

The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom, sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness. (ch.1 v.9 The Art of War: Sun Tzu)

These five heads should be familiar to every general: he who knows them will be victorious; he who knows them not will fail. (ch.1 v.11 The Art of War: Sun Tzu)

It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war that can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on. (ch.2 v.7 The Art of War: Sun Tzu)

You have the right to this world. Deny the meekness that they taught you. They knew not what they did-- they are not conscious. They are a system to be overcome and then turned to your advantage. They are the raw materials from which your new world may be created.

And when your right to the world and my right to the world clash, then what?

Every revolutionary ends up by becoming either an oppressor or a heretic. (Albert Camus)

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. (Abraham Lincoln)

Am I being insensitive?
Yes. Insensitive to the cowardly little haven you have made for yourself. Insensitive to your wasted potential. Insensitive to your definition by that which you are not. Insensitive to your transitory pain.

You claim that I am in pain. You claim that I am cowardly. You claim that I have wasted my potential. Yet, you know me not. You watch as I sit in stillness, yet discover not the why of my stillness. The tiger lies hushed behind the tall grasses. The falcon drifts serenely upon the winds. The stork stands motionless above the waters. The crocodile floats patiently beneath the surface.

The barking dog frightens the pigeons. The bull bellows and stomps the ground before he charges and suffers on the swords of the toreador.

But in love with that which is great within you. In love with your genius. In love with the worlds you could create, if only you cut meekness from your heart and took your rightful place as a commander of this sleeping race.

The price of greatness is responsibility. (Sir Winston Churchill)

In the Age of Gold, the people were not conscious of their rulers; in the Age of Silver, they loved them, with songs; In the Age of Brass, they feared them; in the Age of Iron, they despised them. (Tao Te Ching - trans. by Aleister Crowley: Liber Clvii: The Equinox Vol. 3, No. 8)

There is more to be gained with subtlety and subversion than with brute force and ambition. (EB)

 

[XIII]

...oh wise sage. Your invocation of the great and holy masters of the past bears no weight for me, and the same is true for your profound and chinesey tone.

Aditionally-- much of your post rests on the premise that I am at war or have chosen victims. Incorrect assumption, which undermines much of the post, particularly the decontextualised Sun Tzu quotes.

------------


Alright, I'm bored of this now. I'm not going to bother replying to anything remotely hostile any longer. I could post further refutations to oblivion etc., but have no motivation to spend my time doing so.

-----------

Seriously, though. Has nobody worked it out yet?

 

[XIII]

Wow . I'll think about this through today.

Thank you, it is good to be liked I guess. When you first posted I was just very suprised because it didn't seem like the 'you' that I thought I knew from the forum. I am still having a hard time understanding this XIII, but it gives an interesting perspective about you that I would not have known otherwise. I will try my hand a bit to play along (several assumptions being made in the process), although I am unsure if I will do a good enough job for my own tastes. Forgive me if I am not as good, I worked longer today than I usually do

I am the arc, the vessel against Triskaidekaphobia.
While Avatar descends from heaven
To watch vision unfold into utopia
It will not carry its new brethren.
From sense of sound and strength of word
New creatures of godhood come to be
Yet still do they flounder in the raging sea
Of commonness and mediocrity
Unless the arc comes to take them to thee
How can these god children truly be free?
Avatar, when do I depart?

 

[EloquentBohemian]

...oh wise sage. Your invocation of the great and holy masters of the past bears no weight for me, and the same is true for your profound and chinesey tone.

As the underlying currents of Crowley and Nietzche and references to Blake have none for me. As well as the arrogantly dismssing and self-assuming superior tone of your posts.

Aditionally-- much of your post rests on the premise that I am at war or have chosen victims. Incorrect assumption, which undermines much of the post, particularly the decontextualised Sun Tzu quotes.

You have chosen your victims, the "herd", the "common animals", "the automatic systems of the unconscious herd"... and you are at war with them. It is obvious that you depise them and consider them only worthy of being led.

As well, "the few gifted with the divine light of reason, capable of recreating culture and perception in the image of your rare genius" you berate and denegrate. You place "Cowardice" upon them. You call them "Meek, retiring", "Impotent" and that they "willingly surrender" to their "cowardly little haven".
Do you know who they are?
Have you met them?

You exhort these "few gifted with the divine light of reason" to "Command", that they have a "right to this world". Command who? The "unconscious herd"? By what or whose right? To do what? To recreate "culture and perception in the image of your rare genius"? And what would this image of their "rare genious" be? A utopia?

You berate and belittle these "few gifted with the divine light of reason" and you expect them to rise up and embrace your vision with open arms?
You demand that each one take their "rightful place as a commander of this sleeping race", yet under whose authority? And who commands this legion of Commanders? Themselves? Or some higher authority?

Your posturing aristocratic rhetoric might be worthy of an ancient Roman Senate or the Politburo, but the concept of an 'elite' ruling the 'masses' - regardless whether its foundation is "rare genius", raw power or the "divinity" you ascribe to these "few gifted" - is an insult to them and to the entire human species past, present and future. Your disjointed abrasive megalomaniac dysphemisms propose to create divisions and class structures which mirror the dictatorial distortions of Marxist philosophy present in current Communist totalitarian states.

Progress and evolution for Humanity is not achieved through force, coersion or an elite divine intervention; it is brought about by the dissolution and transformation of antiquated conceptual structures into fluid formations which consider the whole of Humanity, regardless of an individual's inherent capacities and capabilities. These formations would seek the encourage the participation of all individuals in a vision in which all have a voice, not merely the commands of a few.

Those "few gifted with the divine light of reason" are those who can foster a vision of the future in every person, not command, demand or manipulate the future as they see fit, for if "gifted with the divine light of reason", they realise that all other individuals have just a much "right to this world" as they do.

I repeat Abraham Lincoln who definiely does not speak in a "chinesey tone"...
"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy."

 

[EloquentBohemian]

Seriously, though. Has nobody worked it out yet?

If you have something of interest or which would be of benefit to those of us reading your input, perhaps being succinct would achieve understanding. I am not reluctant to discuss a proposition when it is presented as a coherently constructed thesis.

 

[Jules]

Alright, I'm bored of this now. I'm not going to bother replying to anything remotely hostile any longer. I could post further refutations to oblivion etc., but have no motivation to spend my time doing so.

Likewise, I'm bored of this too. You appear to be able to explain the world, yet not capable of answering one question (truly, a reason for not having answered a question is not an answer to that question).
Don't bother, though. It would be a waste.

 

[Mute]

...oh wise sage. Your invocation of the great and holy masters of the past bears no weight for me, and the same is true for your profound and chinesey tone.

Aditionally-- much of your post rests on the premise that I am at war or have chosen victims. Incorrect assumption, which undermines much of the post, particularly the decontextualised Sun Tzu quotes.

------------


Alright, I'm bored of this now. I'm not going to bother replying to anything remotely hostile any longer. I could post further refutations to oblivion etc., but have no motivation to spend my time doing so.

-----------

Seriously, though. Has nobody worked it out yet?

Pretty sure I get it. And by get it I mean wrap my head around what you're saying-for the past month or so I've suspected my own genius and have in large part meekly dismissed and hid it.

Does this make me some sort of slumbering giant who once awakened will lead humanity? (or some shit like that)

I don't know. I don't know if you're right either. I agree to an extent, maybe that's just my own apprehension though.

edit: am I the only fucking intp in this thread or what? lol..

If you have something of interest or which would be of benefit to those of us reading your input, perhaps being succinct would achieve understanding. I am not reluctant to discuss a proposition when it is presented as a coherently constructed thesis.

Suspend your disbelief and reread his post. Most of you are either trying to deconstruct his post and dismiss it in pieces (which you can't really do) or are for some reason argumentative for its own sake. Others just take things out of context, etc etc.

Although, i have my own doubts.

Likewise, I'm bored of this too. You appear to be able to explain the world, yet not capable of answering one question (truly, a reason for not having answered a question is not an answer to that question).
Don't bother, though. It would be a waste.

Why so hostile?

X_X

 

[Tyria]

I don't see how opening fresh wounds makes the healing process go better... maybe we should leave it be for now.

Please?

 

[Mute]

I don't see how opening fresh wounds makes the healing process go better... maybe we should leave it be for now.

Please?

I refuse to let a potentially awesome thread die because of a few close minded people.

edit: will probably die anyway..

 

[snowqueen]

I refuse to let a potentially awesome thread die because of a few close minded people.

edit: will probably die anyway..

Hi Mute,

please don't take this the wrong way - but there is a context to Crim's request which you might not be aware of because you are relatively new. I think 'close minded people' is an unfair assumption and definitely wrong in Crim's case. However, if there is a topic arising from this post which you would like to continue discussing under a new title, then you could always start a thread of your own and find people who want to discuss it with you.

If you want to discuss 'big thoughts' then can I also recommend you check out Coberst's posts

 

[didyouknow]

I think perhaps this thread should be closed if XIII finds this agreeable. His latest thread suggests that this was a mistake, one that would perhaps be better left alone.

 

[Anthile]

I was considering that all the time, Dyk. I highly doubt that this thread will be continued in any way and therefore I will close it now.

Well, if anyone has something to add to this thread you can PM me to convince me to reopen it.