INTPs are sick?

[WALKYRIA]

I’ve read a long time ago the idea that INTPs though not a pathology in itself might be a personnality organization that was born in chaos and trauma. N=1 sample size but i’m curious, do we develop our personnality in the midst of chaos.
Personnel infos: For me it was having young and unprepared parents and groxying up with an old though loving grand mother, this resulted in me basically having to figure things out by myself instead of step by step acquiring the necessary things. Same goes for ADHD, which seemingly stems from a destructured environment( perhaps family environment and neglect/ lack of presence).


Thoughts?

 

[birdsnestfern]

Just read that ADHD isn't a mental issue, its genetic and its a useful adaptation because its perfect for quick thinking where you are in a survival situation.
But, I can tell you that I had young parents too, and they were only together for a year and a half or two.
Grandparents raised me mostly, left in a crib all the time, in a back room and very quiet, I never cried.
I think I liked being alone, always.
I'd say, it was a neglectful upbringing, but thats how Dr. Spock told parents to do it, let babies soothe themselves.
My upbringing was definitely where I kind of brought myself up, learned to be very responsible at a super young age.
I don't believe I have any mental issues, I'm resilient, adaptive, resourceful and learn all the time.
If I have anything, I'd say its very mild fearful avoidance, mostly in relation to the fact I'm a Westerner transplanted to the South
and don't quite fit in, but I had a successful career as an accountant for 30 years, and developed a lot of S type skills so I could survive.
Sometimes I see ISTP in myself, as I do like tools, fixing things, accounting, but its just not as natural as the intuitive side. About 60% N, 40% S.
I disagree. However I do not see personality being developed in myself, I'm just kind of purely free spirited me without much of a mask. And I'm not natural at banter, I do well on the phone, I do less well with people which is why I had to pick jobs like accounting, geology, electronics, architectural drawing, massage therapy, quality assurance inspecting, anything where I work with details alone is perfect and deal with people on the phone is fine.

 

[fluffy]

Those identifying as INTP

Think allot
Usually are traumatized
Have a higher intelligence than average
Don't fit into society because are too logical

Other types can be this way but in combination INTP feel separate.

What separates me from being INTP is Ni

Ne is a disparate function in that it's seeing patterns in reality that latter on must have contemplation as to organize them.

Organization of Ni is different because those patterns don't come from the world but from inside the self.

INTJ use Ni to organize the outside world by Te.

INFJ the inside as a unique system.

INTP is more categorizing because it absorbs those world patterns and thinks on them internally.

 

[fluffy]

N

 

[fluffy]

Duplicate

 

[dr froyd]

you can safely add me to the sample size

chaos and emotional neglect was the name of the game, and the grandmother was a bitch

 

[scorpiomover]

I’ve read a long time ago the idea that INTPs though not a pathology in itself might be a personnality organization that was born in chaos and trauma. N=1 sample size but i’m curious, do we develop our personnality in the midst of chaos.
Personnel infos: For me it was having young and unprepared parents and groxying up with an old though loving grand mother, this resulted in me basically having to figure things out by myself instead of step by step acquiring the necessary things. Same goes for ADHD, which seemingly stems from a destructured environment( perhaps family environment and neglect/ lack of presence).


Thoughts?

Then INTP would be a type of psychological disorder, not a personality type, and not a psychological type either, and in that case, MBTI should be a list of psychological disorders, not a list of personality types and not a list of psychological types.

So then MBTI tests should really be renamed as psychological disorder tests.

 

[Puffy]

I still personally associate INTPness with neurodiversity. Not universally but at the very least I wouldn't be surprised if there's a positive correlation in members here to neurodiversity compared with a more general sample of the population. So it depends on how someone interprets that. It's more commonly seen as a genetic/nature difference than a nurture/trauma difference from what I know. At the same time I think some people can present with traits that could be confused with neurodiversity due to trauma without it being the case.

 

[dr froyd]

So then MBTI tests should really be renamed as psychological disorder tests.

but then again what is psychological disorder - it's but a point along a continuum

 

[scorpiomover]

So then MBTI tests should really be renamed as psychological disorder tests.

but then again what is psychological disorder - it's but a point along a continuum

Then everyone is sick, at some point along a continuum of sickness. Even perfect health would be a 0 level of sickness (but still sick).

The modern psychological approach is to talk about levels of mental wellness.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Trauma is adaptation not a disorder. It becomes problem when the person leaves the environment where the adaptation made sense, and lives in environment where the adaptation no longer serves any purpose.

For instance personality is a type of patter of behavior that emerges from birth and stays relatively unchanged until death.

If you are born a personality you die a personality of same type.
But you might along the way learn things and cope with problems and adapt many times and unlearn things so your personality eventually becomes more balanced hopefully.

INTPs like all types when traumatized evolve faster in some ways, and can under develop in some ways.

So INTPs like to think. If they get traumatized they can use more of their brains to problem solve, and rely less on emotions.
This will lead to INTPs be highly logical and thoughtful, but relatively slow in processing new emotions.

INTPs can have good memories, but if they get traumatized they will dissociate form painful memories and lose the gift of memory.
So they will rely more on thinking logically and organizing their info by writing.

INTPs can be logical to a fault, ignoring their own feelings or others feelings, because in their traumatized world feelings played little to no role.

INTPs can suppress their talents in order to fit in in order to not get bullied.

Not getting targeted for being too smart.

INTPs can learn to avoid being direct, because being direct often offends people and that can lead to violence so INTPs will talk in indirect ways to placate people.

INTPs can learn to rebel, but instead of rebelling in order to not get beaten they might only learn to think for themselves and therefore if they get any original ideas or think of new solutions they will keep them for themselves until they can safely share them. Which may never happen. etc.

So there are many ways INTPs will hide who they are.

But INTPs are quite different in so many ways that even in healthy environments they have to learn to be quite detached and mindful not to upset the balance.
Because INTPs think a lot, they also come to different conclusions, have different understanding, and that rubs everyone the wrong way, so INTPs have to learn always to censure what they are thinking or diminish it. Its a kind of social game where everyone with personality has different perspective. INTPs can end up with jarringly different view. Which makes everyone question the sanity of INTPs or if they are just joking. etc.

 

[ZenRaiden]

but then again what is psychological disorder - it's but a point along a continuum

Disorder is the word in and of it self, it means there is some distorted thinking that leads to wrong behaviors that don't correspond to reality and that creates disorderly life. Its basically something that unbalances you.

Trauma is adaptation only, but its no disorder, because having a reflex in a vietnam jungle can save your life, but if you throw a surprise party for your vietnam vet uncle just do it without balloons popping or firecrackers. Or he might pull out his gun and Headshot few people before he calms down.

The problem is trauma is basically like outdate program, disorder is like having a faulty program altogether that does not work.

 

[birdsnestfern]

This is pretty interesting on hypermobility and neurodiversity:

 

[dr froyd]

but then again what is psychological disorder - it's but a point along a continuum

Disorder is the word in and of it self, it means there is some distorted thinking that leads to wrong behaviors that don't correspond to reality and that creates disorderly life. Its basically something that unbalances you.

"disorder" is just a way to denote a state where multiple factors manifest themselves extremely, to the point of complicating the practicalities of life; there's nothing intrinsic to a disorder that doesn't share attributes with "normal" cases.

for example, if i believe in UFOs im just slightly unusual. If i believe there's an alien in the room with me, i might have schizophrenia. No brain perceives reality exactly, it always fills in gaps in various idiosyncratic ways.

 

[scorpiomover]

Trauma is adaptation not a disorder. It becomes problem when the person leaves the environment where the adaptation made sense, and lives in environment where the adaptation no longer serves any purpose.

Ironically, that's the new view in psychology. It's called a "trauma-informed approach". IME, it's a more useful to the patient.

For instance personality is a type of patter of behavior that emerges from birth and stays relatively unchanged until death.

If you are born a personality you die a personality of same type.

Well, unless you have a large iron rod stab you in the head like Phineas Gage.

INTPs like all types when traumatized evolve faster in some ways, and can under develop in some ways.

True, which is more advantageous in some environments, but more disadvantageous in other environments.

So INTPs like to think. If they get traumatized they can use more of their brains to problem solve, and rely less on emotions.
This will lead to INTPs be highly logical and thoughtful, but relatively slow in processing new emotions.

That's more advantageous in environments where logic is highly valued, but more disadvantageous in environments where humans are bombarded with a plethora of emotion-inducing information every day, as then INTPs would be much slower to figure out what is going on and adapt to it than most people.

INTPs can have good memories, but if they get traumatized they will dissociate form painful memories and lose the gift of memory.
So they will rely more on thinking logically and organizing their info by writing.

INTPs can be logical to a fault, ignoring their own feelings or others feelings, because in their traumatized world feelings played little to no role.

Advantage in environments where feelings play little to no role IRL. But disadvantage in environments where everyone wants their emotions pandered to.

INTPs can suppress their talents in order to fit in in order to not get bullied.

Advantage in environments with a lot of conformity. Disadvantage in environments where people are rewarded for showing how they don't fit the mainstream.

Because INTPs think a lot, they also come to different conclusions, have different understanding,

Advantage in environments where most people are open-minded and not very judgemental. Can be a disadvantage in environments where most people are very judgemental.

 

[birdsnestfern]

Because INTPs think a lot, they also come to different conclusions, have different understanding,

Advantage in environments where most people are open-minded and not very judgemental. Can be a disadvantage in environments where most people are very judgemental.

Great insights in this whole thread, and particularly this applies to me, and very true.

 

[SignalCobra]

This thread really resonates with me, especially the idea that INTP personality development might sometimes emerge from chaotic or emotionally unstructured environments. While I wouldn’t say INTP equals trauma, I do think that for many of us, a lack of emotional guidance or structure growing up made us turn inward — relying more on our own thoughts, logic, and curiosity to make sense of the world.

In my case, I didn’t have harsh or unloving parents, but emotional presence was often missing. There was this quiet expectation that I’d “figure it out” on my own, and over time, I just got used to handling things internally. I asked myself questions I couldn’t ask others, and slowly built this world inside where I processed things safely, in my own time and language.

It’s interesting how many INTPs mention feeling like they had to raise themselves. Not literally, but in terms of emotional growth or decision-making. I remember being quite young and already feeling like I had to manage myself — my thoughts, my reactions, even my sense of direction in life — without much input or feedback from the outside.

That’s not necessarily a bad thing. It made me very independent, adaptable, and analytical. But it also made it harder, later on, to trust others with my inner world. I’m still working on that. And honestly, some of the most meaningful growth I’ve had didn’t come from thinking more — but from learning how to feel safer in connection with others, even when things are uncertain.

 

[dr froyd]

it makes sense, really. Emotions exist to communicate your state to other people so that they can help you in life. But if you are in an environment where emotions are just causing volatility and/or you cannot really trust others to help you, then you have to rely more on your reasoning capabilities to survive.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I vote Intjs most damaged.

 

[fluffy]

it makes sense, really. Emotions exist to communicate your state to other people so that they can help you in life. But if you are in an environment where emotions are just causing volatility and/or you cannot really trust others to help you, then you have to rely more on your reasoning capabilities to survive.

Fe is less volatile than Fi

In fact Fe decreases emotional energy.

Yet if Fe is dominant or auxiliary it can become more observant thus affected more.

In the case of INTP they ignore so many vibes or emotional tones or are simply unaware of them that until something extreme happens they don't react. They react the least of any type. Detachment turning everything into a logical argument, not into anything that would be about the self.

If it turns into being confronted with a sense that they are being seen as unobjective then it is less an issue to them than Te that creates friction they could be wrong when it's apparent they cannot be from their total experiences of corrections to their ability. Ti falls back on Fe to relax conditions under which wrong is possible. If to many critical things are at stake Fi can become overwhelming in the Te clouding it's processes. Te dom aux tries to suppress Fi to the extent their mistakes are shameful to them and a personal flaw.

Either I am a very controlled INTJ or a very reactive INFJ - I get upset often making mistakes that INTP seem to gloss over not caring as it's not a big deal to them. INTP tho are not all the same. Some use detachment to think they have a flawless world view so the detachment is all about keeping it perfectly intact and disregard others. Only a flaw that is critical breaks this system otherwise they work to have nothing that can do so. An open minded INTP keeps a distance between what they are thinking and the reasons why behind it. Anyone with motivated thinking can ignore truths that are uncomfortable to them.