Posts split from "Ask BAP"

[loveofreason]

BAP, are you aspergers?

Because I have a theory about your behaviour. There are alternative explanations of course, such as sublime bigotry or incredible stupidity, but I think your mind has some kind of special capacity I find it hard to comprehend.

Such as the inability to recognise when an individual is pissed off with you for a very good reason stemming from your own obtusely tedious and repetitive actions.

You wouldn't mind if I tottled off to some other part of the forum to think out loud about you and discuss you with fellow irritated members, under the guise of pondering my personal model of social (dys)functionality based upon misinterpretations and misperceived notions of human behaviour, would you?

Of course not. Your inevitable failure to get upset will only support my theory.

And of course, if you get called in to defend yourself in these private public discussions and you fail to articulate yourself on my terms - that is; fail to display any awareness of interpersonal dynamics, then I shall again take this as evidence of your profound mental difference (dare I say, inferiority?) and accuse you of ...being asperger's. And obsessed with me.

Hell, I'll even define what social anaylsis awareness is so that you fall outside the spectrum of reasoning that I accept as legitimate.

How's it sound? Can't win? Oops... I mean... can't get at truth? Because either you're trying to score points against Lyra in some subtly malicious stalking marathon, or you really are asperger's and will never realise the full truth of the dynamics here because a swathe of the interactive spectrum is just invisible to you....


I'm quite happy to take a little holiday for bullying the socially disabled here, but next time I see you making an extended example of any single member as your posterboy for irrationality, or you choose to take any flimsy bait as an excuse for a 'lyra-makes-no-sense' lamentation (poor put-upon rational what-is-he-to-do-surrounded-by-the-weak-of-anaylsis?)... I shall grant you free tickets to Siberia.

 

[BigApplePi]

Re: Ask BAP

Don't know LOR, but you've said many things here. A few comments. Do I have the right of reply? I hate to see bullying and I would even caution abstention in myself as you seem to have pointed out. When I see someone bullying another, I don't like it. It's true I have brought up the fellow you've been talking about, but I thought he was a strong person else I would not have addressed him. He does act with a great deal of force. What prompted my, I thought rather mild, mention of his name on this thread, was an accumulation of multiple things:

(1) When he said this about Cog, just the 2nd sentence:
Lyra about Cog
Now I get what he's saying. It's the WAY he said it, the precedent he is setting, that can influence others detrimentally that I noted.

Another was (2)
Cog's puzzlement

(3) Duxwing expressed this which I remember & I concur:

Such a philosophy defeats the entire purpose of attending a forum. We've come here to notice and exchange ideas, not ignore them.

Dux post


LOR, it's an accumulation of stuff. Absurdity has pointed out ideas are more important than people (paraphrase). In this case Lyra is such a prominent & controversial person on this Forum, he IS the idea. He is a public figure. Is he so weak he should be mollycoddled at every turn? What have I done that is so injurious to him? Nothing but bring up the issue. This guy is not weak. He is strong enough to take being in the public limelight IMO. Maybe I'm wrong and it should not be me making this point. Yet others have brought it up from time-to-time. The difference with me is I've openly said, "The Emperor has no clothes."

LOR, I take these things intellectually as both factual and moral issues, Asperger's notwithstanding. Are you saying I was wrong to take this up? I thought I was addressing not just Cog's but other's interests as well. Several others have expressed an interest in the issue and I've just stepped in to follow up. I have no wish to continue this at this point. I can drop it, but what if I hear another objection from a 3rd party to bullying? Shall I keep silent? Your call but I will FEEL censored and feel badly.

BAP, are you aspergers?
Because I have a theory about your behaviour. There are alternative explanations of course, such as sublime bigotry or incredible stupidity, but I think your mind has some kind of special capacity I find it hard to comprehend.

No to Asperger's. (A licensed psychoanalyst knows me, but I've been mistaken out of context. I deliberately try to remove all emotion from a scientific inquiry. I've also taken a test for this on this Forum with negative result.) Bigotry/ stupidity? Evidence required before accusation. If I have it, I will admit it. I don't believe you will find I am either bigoted or stupid. Inattentivity is possible though.

Such as the inability to recognise when an individual is pissed off with you for a very good reason stemming from your own obtusely tedious and repetitive actions.

Are you kidding me? Of course he's pissed off. But isn't it about time HE recognize other's feelings where posters get pissed off at him and time for him to grow up? I've always avoided elaborations like that, so I've done it here.

You wouldn't mind if I tottled off to some other part of the forum to think out loud about you and discuss you with fellow irritated members, under the guise of pondering my personal model of social (dys)functionality based upon misinterpretations and misperceived notions of human behaviour, would you?

Anyone can do that. Anyone can be attacked to make them look bad. There are laws against slander and libel but I would hope this doesn't happen on this Forum. I've been exposed to the McCarthy era. "The Crucible" about the Salem witch trials is a great play. All of your paragraph is intellectually and socially challenging to address. Would you allow such on this Forum or are we not up to it?

A question to you as a mod is, how much are you willing to have posters publicly disagree? There is a moderator bias on this Forum: all women. If I may make a sexist, tactless statement, women are fond of peace. Men love to fight things out. Sexist I admit, but what about that? Sexist? Biased? Stupid? Aspergers?

It reminds me of when I was ten years old. My best buddy & I were fighting/wrestling on my front lawn. My mom came out angry and broke it up. "Stop fighting." I always have thought that a big mistake. If my dad had been there, he would have let the fight go on and let us learn from nature taking it's course. I'm not saying that is the case here, that this guy and I should fight, but I'd like to see more male input as to moderator-ship. What about adding an Architect, an Editor or a snafupants as moderator or some other volunteer? Maybe Duxwing or Cognisant if the latter could keep his cool?

Of course not. Your inevitable failure to get upset will only support my theory.

You bet I'm upset. I just do not show it ... INTP like. I can change that. Want me to??? Insert: I completely forgot this and it may be a another clue as to why you've proposed Aspergers for me:

Lyra: @BigApplePi I just told you dumb fuck. You've made so many threads about this before, can't you just stop flying the flag of your stupidity now? Or take the hint from Kuu about how totally unable you are to read people?

I dismissed this as the ravings of a spoiled brat who has probably never been told, "no" to. I know who and what I am, though I'm always learning. He is full of exaggeration so I ignore it. Why must I reply in kind? As I look back, I didn't reply to that because it wouldn't be objective. When he comes down on others, I see it more clearly. No wonder you see me with Asbergers!

And of course, if you get called in to defend yourself in these private public discussions and you fail to articulate yourself on my terms - that is; fail to display any awareness of interpersonal dynamics, then I shall again take this as evidence of your profound mental difference (dare I say, inferiority?) and accuse you of ...being asperger's. And obsessed with me.

Hell, I'll even define what social anaylsis awareness is so that you fall outside the spectrum of reasoning that I accept as legitimate.

How's it sound? Can't win? Oops... I mean... can't get at truth? Because either you're trying to score points against Lyra in some subtly malicious stalking marathon, or you really are asperger's and will never realise the full truth of the dynamics here because a swathe of the interactive spectrum is just invisible to you....

I would like to disentangle myself from this but at the same time get a defense from an outside observer. I haven't the slightest interest in scoring points against Lyra. He has abilities I don't have; I claim abilities he doesn't have. It's that simple. Looking into my motives for all this, I believe what I was after is to say "The Emperor is wearing no clothes." This guy is a self-centered brat. Everyone is equal and has the right to speak on this Forum. Lastly perhaps I've overestimated the interest in all this. Perhaps I am guilty of a failure to see interpersonal dynamics. Another theory is posters say something but don't wish to stir the waters. Perhaps a little drama is good to be retained on the Forum as long as we "play nice." In that case I ask if I should falter, that Lyra not call me names ... no matter how he feels. It looks bad all around.

I'm quite happy to take a little holiday for bullying the socially disabled here, but next time I see you making an extended example of any single member as your posterboy for irrationality, or you choose to take any flimsy bait as an excuse for a 'lyra-makes-no-sense' lamentation (poor put-upon rational what-is-he-to-do-surrounded-by-the-weak-of-anaylsis?)... I shall grant you free tickets to Siberia.

I can leave it all alone, but I'd like to know if the rest of the Forum would like that. I am much less afraid of Lyra, than I am of you mods. Another finally: I do notice that my few statements about this guy have resulted in similar ones from not only him, but Absurdity and now you. Do you see me -whining- complaining? Yet as Shylock said, "If you prick us, do we not bleed?" - Merchant of Venice, W. Shakespeare.

 

[Lyra]

Re: Ask BAP

Pi, what the fuck? 1) I never start talking to you, and have asked many times for you to leave me alone, and you've made many threads about me and filled most of my threads. 2) You're turning into some inquisition about how valid a person I am (you said you wanted as much in your post) to make it seem ok that you follow me around and post abusive stuff, making me have to justify that I don't deserve to be attacked/insulted. 3) Making me out to be some big bad wolf is inaccurate, given that I usually get many responses purely consisting of insults or incomprehension even when I try to be as polite as possible. I am usually in the minority on any given issue. 4) So first this is rational analysis of the difference between as so-called rational and intuitive, and now it's about me being a 'brat' and deserving to be dressed down? That's totally inconsistent. The only common factor is you refusing to stop following me and writing abusive things about me. 5) If you don't like/comprehend, leave me alone? I made a post on the second page of this thread explaining my purposes for being here, and you insist I'm some 'emperor' with 'no clothes'. I'm not, and hardly treated as an emperor. I'm what and who I am, here for the reasons I am, which I've explained.

Most people assume that the contradiction and fringe nature of what I say warrants rejection outright. I'm fine with that and the ridicule because it serves a function for those who see what's actually going on. But I take far more flak here than I give, and usually long before I start giving it back. I'm being what and who I am-- what the fuck gives you the right to say I'm some fraud, or am a 'spoiled brat' who hasn't been said no to. You just don't know me, and it's just not true. It bears no relation to the history of my life, just like all your harassing, obsessive analysis usually totally miss the mark in their insults. You seem to be claiming, by saying I've 'never been said no to' and am an 'emperor with no clothes', that all the abuse you're giving me is somehow something novel or that I deserve and that will 'do me good'. I can certainly tell you that abuse is nothing new to me, and yours is nowhere near what I've had, but does make using this forum harder and unenjoyable.

You are just stalking me and constantly being abusive. Getting entangled whenever you can in any conflict surrounding me, and using that as an excuse to write about me even more. I've asked you to stop so many times. Now you're trying to turn it into a forum-wide endeavour of dressing me down (you asked for that in your post as well...). Please just leave me alone.

 

[Hawkeye]

Re: Ask BAP

I'm being what and who I am-- what the fuck gives you the right to say I'm some fraud

Really?

Have you forgotten how you joined this forum under multiple guises and created a massive uproar? Sure, that was in the past, but to completely dismiss it is rather foolish. Especially when your more recent posts refer back to the past and you further mask your own banned accounts. For example:

Totally unrelated but interestingly similar thread Metteyya wrote in 2009!

This masking is what brings mistrust into the equation as it is difficult to tell whether you are being genuine or not.

Also, the route you chose breached the trust of members, so don't be surprised to find some still irked at your experiment.

I'm not saying what BAP is doing is necessarily right, but you're no saint either.

 

[Lyra]

Re: Ask BAP

I'm not claiming to be, ffs. All I'm claiming is that BAP is following me around and posting abusive stuff, as he has done for a long time. My whole point in the above post was that now he's making that into a general referendum on Lyra to make it seem ok. Why should I have to justify not being stalked/insulted/turned into a subject for what's obviously nothing other than general abuse?

Well done for playing along.

As for the whole 'genuine' misnomer, I explained that on p.2 of this thread and elsewhere. It's its own thing. BAP is obsessed in an entirely different way and no useful discussion is going to grow out of a continuation of his approach. Note that he claimed to be discussing me in the context of 'rational' vs. 'inuitive' then completely dropped the pretense and said he felt I needed to be exposed. You are just playing into the hands of that.

AP has said he can let the matter lie and so I suggest we move on and any further tit-for-tat dispute can be moved to PM. Or does this defeat the object, as neither of you like each other and so wouldn't write each other PMs let alone read them.

Edit: you just added this. He's done this tonnes of times before, and completely initiated this. BAP has been obsessed with me in one form or another for a good two years. It's not about letting it lie. Completely uninformed, incoherent, stupid comment.

 

[Hawkeye]

Re: Ask BAP

You shouldn't, although you are the cause for BAP's actions.

Anyway, BAP has said he can let the matter lie and so I suggest we move on and any further tit-for-tat dispute can be moved to PM. Or does this defeat the object, as neither of you like each other and so wouldn't write each other PMs let alone read them.

 

[Lyra]

Re: Ask BAP

You shouldn't, although you are the cause for BAP's actions.

People are responsible for their own actions.

There is no tit-for-tat dispute. All there is me asking BAP to leave me alone for the hundredth time and him refusing to do so, and you being stupid enough to think something else is going on. Him doing this all via PM would be no better.

 

[Hawkeye]

Re: Ask BAP

He's done this tonnes of times before, and completely initiated this. BAP has been obsessed with me in one form or another for a good two years. It's not about letting it lie you stupid fuck. Completely uninformed, incoherent, stupid comment.

What do you want him to do Lyra? Say sorry?

Do you want a hug?

Agree to disagree and man the fuck up.

 

[Lyra]

Re: Ask BAP

I want him to stop stalking me, filling up my threads, and doing what he's doing. Like I've asked many times before and as the mods have asked him to. That has nothing to do with disagreement (which I've asked him to leave it at many, many times), neither do his insults, neither does him posting round the forum inviting others to critique me in this thread. You don't know the context and are treating this like there's some 'debate' when all there is is BAP stalking.

 

[redbaron]

Re: Ask BAP

He is a public figure. Is he so weak he should be mollycoddled at every turn?

I can't be bothered quoting the entirety of BAP's post, but I agree with this (among others).

Lyra openly posts on a public forum, in a way in which he does so is bound to draw attention. If he doesn't want his ideas publicly contested, then he shouldn't be posting them on a public forum.

Lyra acts like a whiny, attention-seeking, impressionable twat. He's been more mature upon his recent return, but when someone claims to be a hyperdimensional alien emissary on a public forum - fair game if people are sceptical and want to deconstruct this idea.

BAP's persona (and it is a persona) can be confusing, because he is seemingly affectedly detached from absolutely everything, but I don't sense malice on his part. He is deliberately this way, because seeking truth and finding the logical meaning in things is his goal, and the purely logical is what makes the most sense (in his mind).

I don't buy that all Lyra wants is BAP to leave him alone. If that was the case, why doesn't he just block BAP, or ignore his posts - which is the action that I presume is what most people take when they don't like somebody. There's no purpose for Lyra to respond and to incite further posts from BAP by constantly responding to him.

People don't have to read and respond to the posts of people and content that they dislike. I don't 'like' everyone here, and I certainly don't agree with everything posted.

Honestly I have a much bigger issue with Duxwing's constant inane posts and typically deluded teenage angst than Lyra or BAP. I don't necessarily agree with what or how they approach things, but they are great contributors of ideas and are willing to go into detail.

BAP often rescinds an idea if proven wrong as well, seems genuinely interested in the sharing of information. Lyra just wants to use the forum as a stomping ground, and gets to feel all important every now and then because a few other people sometimes, 'identify' with him - which is bound to happen when people are so prolific. Even Da Blob has made some quite interesting and/or useful ideas to plenty of people, even if I did eventually tire of it and stop reading them for quite a while.

Anyway, just thought I'd add my $0.02 since the (threat of) moving of this thread to Siberia seems entirely unwarranted to me...as well as the personal attack and loaded phrasing addressed at him.

 

[Hawkeye]

Re: Ask BAP

I want him to stop stalking me, filling up my threads, and doing what he's doing. Like I've asked many times before and as the mods have asked him to. That has nothing to do with disagreement (which I've asked him to leave it at many, many times), neither do his insults, neither does him posting round the forum inviting others to critique me in this thread. You don't know the context and are treating this like there's some 'debate' when all there is is BAP stalking.

I do understand the context because I know how many times BAP has mentioned your name specifically in other threads. I'm also aware that this has been going on for a long time and that threads have been created on this exact issue.

Your statement is contradictory however, because one of those variables must be affecting you. Stalking alone does nothing because it is a passive action.

 

[Lyra]

Re: Ask BAP

There's no purpose for Lyra to respond and to incite further posts from BAP by constantly responding to him.

I DIDN'T, ffs. I didn't start the discussion in this thread, and BAP fully intended to continue it and continue to invite others to join it regardless of me stating it was or wasn't totally inaccurate. I got tagged in this, as did basically everybody else I talk to.

If he doesn't want his ideas publicly contested, then he shouldn't be posting them on a public forum.

This isn't about a specific idea. It's become about me somehow generally being 'invalid' or a 'brat' or a 'twat'. Which is precisely what I really am not happy with, no.

Lyra acts like a whiny, attention-seeking, impressionable twat. He's been more mature upon his recent return, but when someone claims to be a hyperdimensional alien emissary on a public forum - fair game if people are sceptical and want to deconstruct this idea.

This is precisely what BAP wanted to turn this into, which is just a general thread attacking me. I don't know why I'm supposed to leave that alone, and it's not ok to have general threads like that about other members. Those things I said were me relaxing or weren't meant for you or whatever. So what if they weren't that, even? Why am I supposed to be justifying my whole existence here, again? It's historically a fact that you don't tend to like my posts, so what? Now I need to justify myself to everybody who doesn't sync with or gain from my perspective, in a general thread about what a 'twat' or 'emperor without clothes' I am?

 

[Hawkeye]

Re: Ask BAP

This isn't about a specific idea. It's become about me somehow generally being 'invalid' or a 'brat' or a 'twat'. Which is precisely what I really am not happy with, no.

Ironic really.

You call people stupid dumb fucks all the time. I think you said it 3 times to me on this very page. - and you wonder why people think you're a twat?
Due to this, it looks like you're having a temper tantrum when people disagree with you - hence the spoilt brat references

Grow up.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

Re: Ask BAP

I think it is fairly obvious to everyone that there are a few people out for Lyra's blood. He has asked to be left alone. Multiple times. How hard is that to do?

Not taking sides. Just pointing out a fact.


Bap. Is it annoying having no one ask you questions in a thread made just for that?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Re: Ask BAP

Lyra openly posts on a public forum, in a way in which he does so is bound to draw attention. If he doesn't want his ideas publicly contested, then he shouldn't be posting them on a public forum.

I agree, and that doesn't give BAP the right to harass such a person. However Lyra definitely encourages him by responding. It's not objective, but I highly doubt Lyra is even bothered by him at all, and still there is the option to ignore, PM, or take it up with mods instead of continuing it in public(applies to both of them I suppose).

I don't really get it, but maybe it should be hashed out and not just silenced until the next time(in private though).


p.s. Instead of beating around the bush and going on tangents, why doesn't anyone just ask directly what is the problem?

 

[redbaron]

Re: Ask BAP

This isn't about a specific idea. It's become about me somehow generally being 'invalid' or a 'brat' or a 'twat'. Which is precisely what I really am not happy with, no.

In the same vein, you've made a plethora of posts asserting that BAP is generally, 'stupid', and a, 'dumb fuck' among other things. It's not like BAP is the only person you've done this to either.

It's also not as if you haven't engaged in outright disruptive and/or deceptive behaviour either. If Hawkeye was to start complaining about people trolling him all the time - no one would give a fuck.

As far as I'm concerned you reap what you sew. The fact that you constantly display a combative attitude is what causes things like this. And that you 'take more flak than you give'? Not really. Collectively maybe, but I haven't witnessed a single other user who so readily denounces other people as, 'dumb fucks' and other things as much as you do.

As an individual, you are possibly the most combative and outright insulting user that I've seen post here. The fact that you receive a lot of flak from a wide array of sources isn't BAP's doing. You readily admit that people view your fringe ideas and thoughts as ridiculous.

I really have no sympathy here, I can see your plight and understand your frustration, yet as far as I'm concerned it's not up to every other user on the forum to coddle you. If you can't handle the inevitable backlash, then don't be argumentative and insulting.

Watching you is like observing a cycle, every time you return to the forum you eventually get sucked into yet another pointless bout of arguments that you could have easily avoided by simply not going around calling people dumb fucks, being deceptive and generally speaking down to people who disagree with you. What exactly do you expect when you do things like this?

Anyway no point in following this line of thought. I just think it warrants being pointed out that this occurrence is practically inevitable when someone so consistently and overtly insults and berates other people in a public forum. Eventually people are going to get ticked off, which usually just ends in a cycle of Lyra expressing frustration and everyone laughing and ridiculing him further.

Which would all be avoided if Lyra just shut his proverbial mouth and considered the eventual obvious outcome before doing it.

 

[Lyra]

Re: Ask BAP

Last time I didn't respond to something BAP was asking he began going around accusing me of being a fraud for not answering questions. And I have taken this up with the mods. And they have told him to stop before.

What on earth is this supposed to be? Let's deconstruct Lyra (with insults) and discuss whether it's ok for BAP to follow me around insulting me until I respond, and then say I deserved it for responding? What the fuck is this.

redbaron has a long history of not liking my posts as well. Now everybody like that gets to post a torrent of abuse under the guise of being measured/reasonable about some 'issue'? I'm fine with how things go on the forum, contrary to the last post. Just not this thread. I'm fine with consequences of actions-- but I don't see how stalking and this goddamn thread is some consequence I'm supposed to be responsible for or ok with, and it wouldn't be ok for any other member.

 

[Hawkeye]

Re: Ask BAP

p.s. Instead of beating around the bush and going on tangents, why doesn't anyone just ask directly what is the problem?

Apparently, the problem is BAP stalking Lyra irrespective of insults and public criticisms.

But it's also the insults and public criticisms.

If Hawkeye was to start complaining about people trolling him all the time - no one would give a fuck.

 

[redbaron]

Re: Ask BAP

I agree, and that doesn't give BAP the right to harass such a person. However Lyra definitely encourages him by responding. It's not objective, but I highly doubt Lyra is even bothered by him at all, and still there is the option to ignore, PM, or take it up with mods instead of continuing it in public(applies to both of them I suppose).

I'm not condoning harassment, just pointing out that this outcome is to be expected. Whether it's over BAP or something else, people in general can't just go around denouncing others as dumb fucks, stupid, worthless etc.

Lyra overtly criticises people in a chastising manner and then claims to be unaffected by returned ridicule. He's even done so in this thread. It's obvious that he can't actually handle it, but he's practically seeking reprehension.

Maybe people shouldn't address him with hostility, but he constantly says that he is above reproach, that it doesn't affect him. But now he's apparently changed his mind?

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that Lyra deserves to be ridiculed because he ridicules other people. Simply that it's unavoidable when he acts the way he does.

To be honest, I think @Kuu knew this and saw the cycle leading back to this point again - which was the reason he took action a short while ago.

In a way I am surprised Lyra gets away with such overt displays of vulgarity. Probably because he's so good at playing the victim, makes it look like 'ooh, everyone is out to get me!'.

This is as much Lyra's paranoia as anything else. He certainly is ridiculed often, but it's not nearly as bad as he acts. Though I can see why he probably feels like it's so bad.

 

[Lyra]

Re: Ask BAP

'Lyra's paranoia'? 'Can't actually handle it'?

So I'm a controversial poster and not always nice. That means I am responsible for BAP making this thread and people (like you, who accompanied BAP on several of the past threads) who've only ever been at odds with me in the past making a platform of it for 'why it's ok to rip into Lyra and it's his fault anyway (by the way here's why he's a 'twat', 'brat', 'vulgar', 'can't handle it')?

I'm ok with what happens on the forum normally. I don't get why that means I'm paranoid or am meant to be ok with this thread or BAP's stalking being legitimised by a couple of other individuals who've joined in with him in past threads, or justify myself in the face of it.

people in general can't just go around denouncing others as dumb fucks, stupid, worthless etc.

Except that you've done basically that in many of my threads, upping the tension and calling me a fraud or similar. Most of the hostility from the period you're referring to was to do with Pod'Lair specifically, and my supposed identification with them.

As for the other supposed 'dishonesty', I've explained many times that I am what I am, and that that relates to personality theories etc.

 

[redbaron]

Re: Ask BAP

I don't actually have a problem with you or the majority of your posts.

It's you calling people dumb fucks that I dislike.

Also when you act surprised when they retaliate, as if you're the victim here and everyone is out to get you, that's just pathetic.

Really doesn't make a difference to me that it's you or someone else, but the fact is that you post/express things like this and so I respond. I have 1,100 posts here and perhaps a dozen are directed at you.

The way you act as though I have some sort of 'history' with you is pretty much exactly what I'm talking about. I've disagreed with a lot of people here, usually because they have a tendency to say/express things that I don't agree with - but they don't consider it as though I'm out to get them.

We disagree on something, or I think they said something stupid. I'm not exactly, 'gentle' when I express things, and often I lose interest in forming an articulate response to things and settle for a less than desired response (from my perspective). Which means I'm often crass and a bit of a jerk.

And yes, you are being paranoid here. And no, I don't think you can handle the reprehension that you claim to be, 'okay' with.

 

[redbaron]

Re: Ask BAP

Except that you've done basically that in many of my threads, upping the tension and calling me a fraud or similar.

Sure, I do it all the time. Like I said, I've had about a dozen or so posts directed at you. I've never called you a dumb fuck, but I have indeed insulted you (and others).

However when people insult me in other separate areas of the forum as a result (which has happened from certain users) I simply don't care. If I don't respond, their posts go unnoticed.

Personally, I have no wish for those people who insult me to be reprimanded - because they are right. I AM an ass, and they have every right to call me a fuckwit, moron, imbecile, idiot - whatever. It's all fair game if you ask me.

I don't begrudge you Lyra - you simply display behaviours that I do. Obviously certain people have personalities that tend towards certain behaviours I dislike, but I don't have a vendetta against anyone here, including you.

 

[Lyra]

Re: Ask BAP

What? This discussion is so much bullshit.

Nothing's coming from it or was ever going to. My only point is that BAP is a stalker and I'd like for him to stop, and now his stalking is just going into whirlwind everybody-who-has-a-gripe-join-in-mode, which is precisely what he asked/encouraged to happen. It's just bullshit.

How on earth did any of you think this would be fruitful or useful to jump in on?

I am not going to go 'justifying' myself or why I post as I do here. Life is as life is, and I work in terms of patterns/messages I work in terms of, they can't be any more usefully communicated here, and this thread is just lowest-common-denominator mob bullshit. I have said many times that my posts are layered and aren't what they appear (if only because of ubiquitous assumptions), as are the patterns and the timelines and the histories. If you're interested in understanding that, fine, but this thread is just about useless historical gripes and misunderstandings or dislikes being stirred up and poured into the same pot of a supposed 'issue'. There is no issue. There is no attempt to understand. There is no search for truth. There is just Pi stalking and you all joining in being proles engaged in prole-affirming drama.

As I said on page 2, I pattern patterns and following those up can lead to wonderful and unexpected things. I am concerned with seeking and excellence and truth, not appearances. The rest, and this thread, and anybody superficial enough to be drawn in by it, and all of these posts, is just irrelevancy. Pi doesn't want to or isn't built to engage with what I have to offer, but can't leave me alone, so I've asked him to stop many times. He can't take that so makes threads like this. You all joining in is futile and, yes, stupid.

 

[BigApplePi]

Re: Ask BAP

Why hello Lyra. I am busy early this morning so I will read your 1st post only until later. Ever since I wrote that response to LOR last night my conscience has been bothering me. I'm not exactly sure why but I would like to find some way to apologize to you. Of course that won't work unless I can find a way to get it across. Here goes and I will try to be myself

Pi, what the fuck? 1) I never start talking to you, and have asked many times for you to leave me alone, and you've made many threads about me and filled most of my threads.

Sometimes I hold back; sometimes I speak my mind. I would like to find a way to leave you alone because I hear you saying you want that.

2) You're turning into some inquisition about how valid a person I am (you said you wanted as much in your post) to make it seem ok that you follow me around and post abusive stuff, making me have to justify that I don't deserve to be attacked/insulted.

I hear you saying that. You speak of being a valid person. You are, but is it not true you present many valid persons? This makes it difficult to know who you are or what you stand for and one person runs into the other confusing the issue. This board is about real people, not some playwright who presents many characters. At least we know who the characters in the play are suppose to represent. Of course I may be misunderstanding your intentions here.

3) Making me out to be some big bad wolf is inaccurate, given that I usually get many responses purely consisting of insults or incomprehension even when I try to be as polite as possible. I am usually in the minority on any given issue.

You are not a bad wolf. That's good you try to be as polite as possible. What bothers me is when you get mad. It gives the appearance of abusing others even though you may not intend that. Then I have to say something even if it isn't me you are mad at.

4) So first this is rational analysis of the difference between as so-called rational and intuitive, and now it's about me being a 'brat' and deserving to be dressed down? That's totally inconsistent. The only common factor is you refusing to stop following me and writing abusive things about me.

It would be nice to present a more formal and attemptedly accurate theory without involving you directly. I enjoy formalizing. It's like proving a theorem in mathematics. Am I correct in saying that's not your thing?

5) If you don't like/comprehend, leave me alone? I made a post on the second page of this thread explaining my purposes for being here, and you insist I'm some 'emperor' with 'no clothes'. I'm not, and hardly treated as an emperor. I'm what and who I am, here for the reasons I am, which I've explained.

Forgive me for being a little slow. Can you? By E w no clothes, I meant you walk around claiming immunity from criticism when you don't admit there is something people don't like about you. I would like to see you better liked even if you don't want that. Maybe I'm wrong here and will have to retract that. I don't know if I'm getting any closer to apologizing to you but maybe I will get there, maybe not.

Most people assume that the contradiction and fringe nature of what I say warrants rejection outright. I'm fine with that and the ridicule because it serves a function for those who see what's actually going on. But I take far more flak here than I give, and usually long before I start giving it back. I'm being what and who I am-- what the fuck gives you the right to say I'm some fraud, or am a 'spoiled brat' who hasn't been said no to. You just don't know me, and it's just not true. It bears no relation to the history of my life, just like all your harassing, obsessive analysis usually totally miss the mark in their insults. You seem to be claiming, by saying I've 'never been said no to' and am an 'emperor with no clothes', that all the abuse you're giving me is somehow something novel or that I deserve and that will 'do me good'. I can certainly tell you that abuse is nothing new to me, and yours is nowhere near what I've had, but does make using this forum harder and unenjoyable.

I regret that you've received abuse in your life. No one deserves that. I think the appearance of abuse on this board happens because you stand out as different. Still that's no excuse for abuse. I think that's the reason. I think we can fix this on this board ... but that's just my optimism. If I can stay out of it, I will. This may seem odd to say, but can you help me stay out of it? Check that. I'm a little lost because I can't do this alone.

You are just stalking me and constantly being abusive. Getting entangled whenever you can in any conflict surrounding me, and using that as an excuse to write about me even more. I've asked you to stop so many times. Now you're trying to turn it into a forum-wide endeavour of dressing me down (you asked for that in your post as well...). Please just leave me alone.

There is something about your plea that leaves me baffled. You are asking me to do something I want to do, yet you don't say anything about what you want to do. Do you really think I wish to abuse you? I do not.

 

[Lyra]

Re: Ask BAP

Bullshit. Nonissue bullshit from a stalker. Trying to sound reasonable after kicking up this is just more stalking and just more time-wasting, disguised in a pretty wrapping.

It's simple, like it's always been simple: don't talk to me long after it's become clear nothing comes of our exchanges, and after being asked many times to stop. Don't follow me around. Don't pretend to analyse me and use that pretense to then say, I quote, 'spoiled brat', 'never been told no', 'emperor with no clothes'. Don't post in my threads inviting others to the thread you're doing that in, don't try to start discussions about whether I'm a valid person or not overall, and don't think I care about working out some 'issue' with you after all of that.

 

[Hawkeye]

Re: Ask BAP

You chose to engage in this thread addressing Cog with a wall of text. Tag or no tag (BAP wasn't the one that tagged you anyway, although you actually tagged BAP).

Yes he asked himself a question about you - this is not illegal. Others were interested, engaged in the topic further and it stemmed from there.

You then fire out your typical stupid dumb fuck catchphrase at BAP for not reading a post that wasn't even addressed to him directly - it was more of a closing statement at the bottom that could easily be missed.

To be honest, I also thought LOR's post was unreasonable as it was a direct attack on BAP. For a mod this could have been addressed privately but meh... It's too late now

BAP did not attack you with insults; just observations and opinions from his own perspective. If you disagree, fine - insulting him is just childish.

You account for 2% of his posts and this includes the thread "Lyra vs BAP".

If anything, he stalks Duxwing more.

 

[BigApplePi]

Re: Ask BAP

Bap. Is it annoying having no one ask you questions in a thread made just for that?

Ah ha. Finally a question. I wouldn't call it annoying. I'd call it painful. I self-centeredly want to be asked questions which further my theories I think worthwhile. (I have begun a few threads like that.)

But theory is a lonely enterprise. Tough. I will have to do it myself, but can't do it alone.

 

[Fukyo]

Hello @BigApplePi

Lor and other mods aren't online, do you mind if I answer to some of your comments?

You see, me and the rest of the moderators have no idea what the fuck you want from Lyra. I don't remember you ever making a frank point explaining what exactly bothers you. To be honest, me and the rest of the staff just don't get you, so we came to see you as obtuse and stubborn for reasons unknown. The opinion could be wrong, vilifying others is common when understanding lacks.



You've said some things in this thread that shed some light on your issue with Lyra. If I understand you have an issue with Lyra being potentially duplicitous and being an asshole to other people?

I'm not sure what your provocative attempts to engage with him are supposed to accomplish. This would be a good opportunity to elaborate why you insist with this, be direct and candid as much as you can please.

here is a moderator bias on this Forum: all women. If I may make a sexist, tactless statement, women are fond of peace. Men love to fight things out. Sexist I admit, but what about that? Sexist? Biased? Stupid? Aspergers?

Yes, that is sexist, moreso because it's not true. The majority of the staff are men: Anthile, Decaf, Kuu, lightspeed, Claverhouse, Ragnar. It just happens that active moderators are currently mostly female.

Your claim is not relevant here, @loveofreason 's post was made out of frustration with your perceived daftness and obtuseness BAP, but I will let her speak for herself. We might have a different role here, but we're still people with opinions, you know.

What I get from your childhood anecdote is is that you want you/people to fight with Lyra until he "fesses up" his real personality and/or intentions, as a "resolution" Is that it?

Also, let me ask you this, if Lyra should be able to take the heat from others, why others shouldn't take heat from him? Do you think this is fair? Why is he more "deserving" of getting flack?


As noted earlier Lyra is a controversial presence. I'm sure plenty of you think he's just plain full of shit. I'm sure some of you plain think he's just playing games. He might, I have no idea of knowing if he is for sure. I can't know if any of you are. I can't know if any of you are putting up false identities at the very moment. Are we going to have witch hunts against people here? Is that what you want?


I don't intend to give Lyra special treatment. He's not above reproach and I will address this later. Lyra was allowed back precisely because of his differences. It was a big picture decision to allow something new in the community that has become stale and monotonous. Not that this means he's gotten complete free reign more than any other poster who is not removed from here.

As TheScornedReflex noted some people are out for Lyra. There is a hostile dynamic between Lyra and the forum and neither side is willing to break it off. Effectively, everyone is throwing oil into the fire and feeding into each other.

Both you BAP, and Lyra have an agenda, I suspect. You want him to come out as it were and adapt to others and he wants to have the last word, that's why he hasn't stopped replying to you. Speaking of which do you think he owes you something, do you think he is supposed to adapt his beliefs to you, so you could understand him? Why wouldn't you adapt to his language instead of pestering him to speak in yours?

@Lyra, you too are the same. You demand others approach and communicate with you on your terms, and why do you keep replying to BAP? Why aren't you ignoring him and minding your own business? I don't believe you "just" want him to leave you alone otherwise you would have ignored him, besides I've seen you search your name on forums so you obviously want to know what others are saying about you. Perhaps you're not as much of a passive target as you're presenting yourself to be?

Clearly you have your own agenda that goes above the fact that certain adjustments need to be made when part of a group. You are very manipulative and do not think it goes unnoticed. You have also done your own "character deconstructions". I do not approve of the fact that you lash out 90% of the time someone goes against you.


^ My thoughts on this. I want to see what BAP has to say.

 

[Lyra]

'Lyra, you too are the same. You demand others approach and communicate with you on your terms, and why do you keep replying to BAP?'

I regret replying, but I was upset and this has been going on for a long time. I don't enjoy where the thread went.

I'm not claiming to be a passive target. This thread and this whole thing with BAP is just so much bullshit, and I knew it was going nowhere. I play hard when I post. Doesn't mean this kind of thread has any value. I could just see where it was going (let's deconstruct somebody we don't actually know very well but who we know we don't like) and I've been tired lately so I lashed out.

Either way I'm done with this forum and you personally. I thought you were smarter and got me more than that last post you made. I actually completed all I wanted to do here with my XIII 3 post after the Pod'Lair thing (as I noted in the Dark Materials thread a few days ago) and was more here to talk to a few I still valued like you. That whole creation stands for anybody who wants to see it or see how much went into it.

 

[Fukyo]

Either way I'm done with this forum and you personally. I thought you were smarter and got me more than that last post you made. I actually completed all I wanted to do here with my XIII 3 post after the Pod'Lair thing (as I noted in the Dark Materials thread a few days ago) and was more here to talk to a few I still valued like you.

Manipulative.

I may have spoken with you amicably, and found you interesting enough to engage with you, but if I will get rebuked whenever I say something that displeases you, then I don't need to have any relation to you or have you value me.

If you wish so, goodbye Lyra.

 

[Lyra]

That wasn't actually manipulation. The bullshit levels are just getting stratospheric. There is nothing going on here except Pi posting fucktons about me endlessly and me getting upset and lashing out. The rest is just spiraling bullshit and of no value and I don't get your contributing further and acting as though I can actually 'account for myself' in the mundane way this situation and your post would entail.

Anybody interested can go read and follow up my posts and find worlds beyond imagining. I'm not going to go giving some trial-by-pleb explanation of myself after building what I have here for anybody with imagination enough to go beyond ubiquitous internet mundanity/inanity.

 

[BigApplePi]

Hi Fukyo. This is getting confusing for me as I've half replied to some other posts and am running out of time due to personal needs. I hope this thread splitting is okay and maybe it is.

Hello @BigApplePi

Lor and other mods aren't online, do you mind if I answer to some of your comments?

Great.

You see, me and the rest of the moderators have no idea what the fuck you want from Lyra. I don't remember you ever making a frank point explaining what exactly bothers you. To be honest, me and the rest of the staff just don't get you, so we came to see you as obtuse and stubborn for reasons unknown. The opinion could be wrong, vilifying others is common when understanding lacks.

I'm working on that answer. My actions ... and they are strong actions ... have caused me to take chances ... the chances I will be thought of by the mods as you say. All depends on how things work out. If I go to Siberia I will stand defeated.

I have to look into myself for an answer. I may not have THE answer, but I have one: One of the most painful things in life is to be an outsider. There are plenty on this board saying exactly that about themselves. One of the virtues of this board is to find a home here where they will be accepted. I know deeply what it is like to be an outsider. Deeply. I haven't talked about that much here and will hold off for now. What we find here on this very board is an outsider inside among outsiders. That outsider-ship must be treated with the respect we would want for ourselves.

I think that is my underlying motive. But how I've gone about it? Might be okay, might not. I've read the exchanges up to now between Lyra and others. There seems to be plenty of airing out in the open. That is good provided the outcome is not a ganging up on Lyra simply by being outnumbered. (Cf. Absurdity as a Lyra defender.). The important thing is a good resolution ... some kind of new understanding. We may not be there yet, but what struck me in my last interchange with Lyra was he admitted being abused at one time. This makes him more human to me that he would admit that. I'd better stop and read on now ...

You've said some things in this thread that shed some light on your issue with Lyra. If I understand you have an issue with Lyra being potentially duplicitous and being an asshole to other people?

I'm not sure what your provocative attempts to engage with him are supposed to accomplish. This would be a good opportunity to elaborate why you insist with this, be direct and candid as much as you can please.

Have I and other covered the answers to this so far?

Yes, that is sexist, moreso because it's not true. The majority of the staff are men: Anthile, Decaf, Kuu, lightspeed, Claverhouse, Ragnar. It just happens that active moderators are currently mostly female.

There you go. The active ones are female. I may have gotten some sexes wrong. I thought Claverhouse WAS Ragnar. Wrong?

Your claim is not relevant here, @loveofreason 's post was made out of frustration with your perceived daftness and obtuseness BAP, but I will let her speak for herself. We might have a different role here, but we're still people with opinions, you know.

Okay.

What I get from your childhood anecdote is is that you want you/people to fight with Lyra until he "fesses up" his real personality and/or intentions, as a "resolution" Is that it?

You mean the fight my mom broke up? Well I'd like to see as much of this come out in the open as possible with the gamble and hope of each side seeing the other a trifle better with more tolerance. So far reading today the data is out there. Now it's up to me to make some kind of peace or if not, a truce with Lyra. There is more to this though. It has to do with Lyra has qualities I don't have and envy. It has to do with my own pride (vanity?) that he can be reached and told how he can be seen as others see him.

Also, let me ask you this, if Lyra should be able to take the heat from others, why others shouldn't take heat from him? Do you think this is fair? Why is he more "deserving" of getting flack?

Everyone is deserving of learning how well they can get along. I can't answer that simply. My current thoughts are Lyra is relatively alone. He should be listened to, not bullied. At the same time he should not take advantage of Forum decorum to abuse others. If I had my wish I would like to know more about how he was abused in his life. I will not get that wish because I don't know how to ask for it. We don't want to further more of it. I may just have to shut up.

As noted earlier Lyra is a controversial presence. I'm sure plenty of you think he's just plain full of shit. I'm sure some of you plain think he's just playing games. He might, I have no idea of knowing if he is for sure. I can't know if any of you are. I can't know if any of you are putting up false identities at the very moment. Are we going to have witch hunts against people here? Is that what you want?

This is a lively (I hope) forum. It feeds on drama. If you know drama, it feeds on misunderstandings but ultimately seeks resolution.

I don't intend to give Lyra special treatment. He's not above reproach and I will address this later. Lyra was allowed back precisely because of his differences. It was a big picture decision to allow something new in the community that has become stale and monotonous. Not that this means he's gotten complete free reign more than any other poster who is not removed from here.

This is a beef of mine. I would like all these things resolved to all of our betterments. I'm no more in favor of banning Lyra than I am of Da Blob.

As TheScornedReflex noted some people are out for Lyra. There is a hostile dynamic between Lyra and the forum and neither side is willing to break it off. Effectively, everyone is throwing oil into the fire and feeding into each other.

It may not be my place to say this, but I would ask those who remain displeased with Lyra to give him a chance. I would be pleased if anyone asks me for feedback on how to proceed ... just as Fukyo has asked me. Whoops. Now I don't know where to go: "Ask BAP" or "Posts split off and say no more."

Both you BAP, and Lyra have an agenda, I suspect. You want him to come out as it were and adapt to others and he wants to have the last word, that's why he hasn't stopped replying to you. Speaking of which do you think he owes you something, do you think he is supposed to adapt his beliefs to you, so you could understand him? Why wouldn't you adapt to his language instead of pestering him to speak in yours?

I've lost ya a little on this paragraph. Both of us have to change our attitudes ... I trust. Beliefs and language can't be changed just like that. There has to be a listening and learning process. Does he owe me anything? No. Only courtesy. But that's not easy because if I ask him a Q, he has the right to not reply. Yet there are ways to not reply and be courteous about it.

@Lyra, you too are the same. You demand others approach and communicate with you on your terms, and why do you keep replying to BAP? Why aren't you ignoring him and minding your own business? I don't believe you "just" want him to leave you alone otherwise you would have ignored him, besides I've seen you search your name on forums so you obviously want to know what others are saying about you. Perhaps you're not as much of a passive target as you're presenting yourself to be?

Clearly you have your own agenda that goes above the fact that certain adjustments need to be made when part of a group. You are very manipulative and do not think it goes unnoticed. You have also done your own "character deconstructions". I do not approve of the fact that you lash out 90% of the time someone goes against you.

^ My thoughts on this. I want to see what BAP has to say.

 

[BigApplePi]

Looks like the cargo ship has sailed before being loaded. Seems it was always assumed the cargo was tainted, but it really was an apology waiting to be sorted and loaded. I always was a little slow at the dock.

 

[Jennywocky]

"...I'm not going to go giving some trial-by-pleb explanation of myself after building what I have here for anybody with imagination enough to go beyond ubiquitous internet mundanity/inanity."

Oh yes, it's so difficult for the creative and intellectual superior to live in mundane space. This is why the gods originally ascended back to Olympus and left humanity to its own fate; the tangible firmaments are not resilient enough to withstand the permanent presence of the divine, lest we be blinded and burned alive.

Can we build and maintain a shrine, until the return?

 

[BigApplePi]

No I didn't. Thanks.

I had two posts yesterday ready to go out before the thread split but for proofreading. One was to you; the other to redbaron. They were somewhat prophetic. Wanna see the one to you?

 

[BigApplePi]

Yes. A shrine would be good. We mustn't forget all the gods had flaws. Athena, the goddess of wisdom was my favorite as a kid. To this day I've missed her flaw though.