Woman - The Root of all Evil

[Beat Mango]

Nobody is the root of all evil.

*thinks about closing this thread*

I agree, the bastard! Where is he!?

 

[SEELE01]

So this toad guy makes a thread about how women are evil AND one about how he "lusts after them too much"

wat

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

Women do tend to push men to their breaking point,seemingly intentionally. its like they are programmed to do this. Seems like they are also programmed to be too materialistic, I suppose the alpha-male will have more possessions, more power, more superiority over other males in a sense. But these are the same women that end up with douchebag boyfriends/husbands. It seems like everything seems evil. Women suck. I can't stand the gay agenda. I don't mind them, in fact some of the funniest people I ever knew were gay, but lack of females in my life and female over-willingness to be around the gay pisses me off to no end. Just generalizations but damn this seems like its not far from the truth. Women can be so manipulative and conniving. I use this one manager I had this one time. She was 18, came from a broken home, who knows what issues were there but anyways. I did a few favors for her outside of work a few times(no, not sexually or anything like that) Helped her mother out a couple times even. The bitch turns around and fires me for picking up some fast food when I was on a pizza delivery and it was slow just to look good in front of a higher up manager. Fuckin bitch.

 

[Agent Intellect]

Women do tend to push men to their breaking point,seemingly intentionally. its like they are programmed to do this. Seems like they are also programmed to be too materialistic, I suppose the alpha-male will have more possessions, more power, more superiority over other males in a sense. But these are the same women that end up with douchebag boyfriends/husbands. It seems like everything seems evil. Women suck. I can't stand the gay agenda. I don't mind them, in fact some of the funniest people I ever knew were gay, but lack of females in my life and female over-willingness to be around the gay pisses me off to no end. Just generalizations but damn this seems like its not far from the truth. Women can be so manipulative and conniving. I use this one manager I had this one time. She was 18, came from a broken home, who knows what issues were there but anyways. I did a few favors for her outside of work a few times(no, not sexually or anything like that) Helped her mother out a couple times even. The bitch turns around and fires me for picking up some fast food when I was on a pizza delivery and it was slow just to look good in front of a higher up manager. Fuckin bitch.

I'm a white male. I'm an introvert. Therefore, all white males are introverts.

This seems like the kind of logic you are using when you make such broad generalizations about how women 'are wired' and 'are manipulative'. It seems like classic Us vs Them mentality and straw man fallacy; you're setting up generalized straw man flaws for people that are different then you and criticizing it. I know plenty of females that are not materialistic, or manipulative, or conniving. I also know quite a few men that are.

Perhaps I'm making some unfounded judgments myself (and correct me if I'm wrong) but you seem to almost take pleasure in creating this Us vs Them scenario, imposing polar opposition on people when the line between them isn't that distinct. What sorts of generalizations could be made about transgender people, or androgynous people, or intersex people?

 

[echoplex]

So this toad guy makes a thread about how women are evil AND one about how he "lusts after them too much"

wat

Well, but that's lust I guess. We (men) are perfectly capable of lusting after people we hate. It's one of our natural inborn curses, I suppose. Luckily, I don't think most men are prone to lust after people they consider "evil", but I think most men are capable of it. The wiring for such is certainly present.

This actually makes me think of a deeper issue, which is the fact that we really can't choose who (or what) we're attracted to. Some people, regardless of gender, spend much of their lives trying to either avoid their attractions, or change them altogether. And even though plenty of self-help gurus and the like will tell people to "take charge" and all that stuff, at the end of the day some people are just kinda cursed to being highly attracted to people they simultaneously find highly disagreeable.

***

@A.I. -
While only Ninja knows whether or not he truly believes what he's saying, I assumed that some of his posts about women are just him blowing off steam due to bad experiences. He also uses the word "seem" alot, which gives his statements some truth because while such generalizations are wrong, certain experiences compounded can certainly make them seem plausible.
​

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

@A.I. -

While only Ninja knows whether or not he truly believes what he's saying, I assumed that some of his posts about women are just him blowing off steam due to bad experiences. He also uses the word "seem" alot, which gives his statements some truth because while such generalizations are wrong, certain experiences compounded can certainly make them seem plausible.
​

That pretty much sums it up. I am a product of my past experiences. I feel I have received very unfair treatment when I try to compare myself to other males. For fuck's sake, I was chilling with these 2 girls one time. I was 18 at the time. This other kid that was hanging out was 16 but his dad was rich and he had access to alcohol. I didn't. I wasn't even interested in drinking at the time. It was known fact the kid had several std's yet these 2 girls were all over him and ignored me. just another small example from my past.

Yes, its pretty much just a bunch of crap experiences compounded with a lack of social understanding/willingness that gives me the sour attitude/opinion I have today. I don't like it better than anyone else but until something changes for the better I will continue to be apprehensive about things.

 

[SEELE01]

Well, but that's lust I guess. We (men) are perfectly capable of lusting after people we hate. It's one of our natural inborn curses, I suppose. Luckily, I don't think most men are prone to lust after people they consider "evil", but I think most men are capable of it. The wiring for such is certainly present.

This actually makes me think of a deeper issue, which is the fact that we really can't choose who (or what) we're attracted to. Some people, regardless of gender, spend much of their lives trying to either avoid their attractions, or change them altogether. And even though plenty of self-help gurus and the like will tell people to "take charge" and all that stuff, at the end of the day some people are just kinda cursed to being highly attracted to people they simultaneously find highly disagreeable.

***​

@A.I. -


While only Ninja knows whether or not he truly believes what he's saying, I assumed that some of his posts about women are just him blowing off steam due to bad experiences. He also uses the word "seem" alot, which gives his statements some truth because while such generalizations are wrong, certain experiences compounded can certainly make them seem plausible.​

What I meant was, does that really require two seperate threads?

 

[Kuu]

So this toad guy makes a thread about how women are evil AND one about how he "lusts after them too much"

wat

Evil: Woman who turns down sexual advances from Toad.

Sounds pretty straightforward to me

 

[kantor1003]

wow, long thread.

I really dislike the amount of control woman can have on men because they was born with a lottery ticket between their legs. I wish it was more balanced, in that girls had to chase men and submit to them in the same way men chase and submit to them. I mean, how often do a girl approach a stranger of the opposite sex asking if he'd like a drink? How often do girls pay for the restaurant bill? How many guys have the power to manipulate the woman's valet? I mean, all these things are so easy to exploit, and many girls are very good at exploiting them.. they can go out to a bar getting a man to buy all her drinks in a desperate hope to get laid...then she can take off..or even start flirting with a new guy she actually fancy. Now, who wouldn't get upset because of this? Needless to say, many conflicts have arisen because of this.

I once heard a story about a chinese general of defence. He fell in love with a girl from the other side of the conflict. One night he opened the city gate to meet his loved one, not knowing that the whole opposing army was luring, waiting for the gate to be opened. The whole city was slaughtered.
Extreme example, but I just can't help to find it funny how much power girls can have over guys.... I wish I didn't have sexual needs...as it often leads to situations where I have to submit to girls not having any desirable qualities other than their pussy..
I mean, an ignorant teenage girl can have the power to control an intelligent, thoughtful man...which doesn't feel deserved at all to me.

 

[stcecilia]

Okay, you guys just hang out with horrible women. There are plenty of girls who have payed for dinner on dates, have asked a guy out, and who respect their bodies enough to not use them as bargaining chips.

The sure-fire way to never meet a nice girl? Compile a long list of reasons women are evil and post it online.

Seriously though, smart and independent girls will avoid you like the plague if you appear even the slightest bit bitter or sexist. It's just not logical to place yourself with someone who seems predisposed to hate you.

 

[kantor1003]

I don't hate them, even though it might seem that way from my post. It is however how I believe a large portion of woman are. And when you are observant of surten danger signals, you are more capable of avoiding such woman.

 

[snowqueen]

wow, long thread.

I really dislike the amount of control woman can have on men because they was born with a lottery ticket between their legs. I wish it was more balanced, in that girls had to chase men and submit to them in the same way men chase and submit to them. I mean, how often do a girl approach a stranger of the opposite sex asking if he'd like a drink? How often do girls pay for the restaurant bill? How many guys have the power to manipulate the woman's valet? I mean, all these things are so easy to exploit, and many girls are very good at exploiting them.. they can go out to a bar getting a man to buy all her drinks in a desperate hope to get laid...then she can take off..or even start flirting with a new guy she actually fancy.

Bloody hell - either I'm in the wrong country, or I was born in the wrong decade or I'm not a woman.

Hang on - I'm an INTP - that's probably the reason [wanders off muttering to herself]

 

[Artifice Orisit]

@-kantor1003
I just wish the whole "special treatment" issue could be settled once and for all, it's a double edged sword in a way, like responsibility. We could go back to the old system of women and gentlemen were women had little power or independence, thereby justifying the special treatment they were given, i.e. it was improper for women to go out alone at night, and it was a man's responsibility to escort them. But in a modern society that values gender equality it's unfair for women to demand chivalrous attentiveness, a man should be free to treat women with the same dignified apathy he would give to any other (non-impaired) man.

It should be one way, or the other, one can't have everything.

 

[Enne]

*shrugs* The gender of the poster is clearly deciding the views and the empathy. I don't know why this topic is rehashed. I mean, what are you gonna do about it? As long as you treat people how you want to treat people, what is there (really) to talk about?

Evil: Woman who turns down sexual advances from ______.

Sounds pretty straightforward to me

Pretty much sums up most "horror stories" guys tell about women. :\

People who play by complete foolishness w/o a sense of compassion or foresighted intelligence are the root of all evil.

</circular topic>

 

[stcecilia]

@-kantor1003
I just wish the whole "special treatment" issue could be settled once and for all, it's a double edged sword in a way, like responsibility. We could go back to the old system of women and gentlemen were women had little power or independence, thereby justifying the special treatment they were given, i.e. it was improper for women to go out alone at night, and it was a man's responsibility to escort them. But in a modern society that values gender equality it's unfair for women to demand chivalrous attentiveness, a man should be free to treat women with the same dignified apathy he would give to any other (non-impaired) man.

It should be one way, or the other, one can't have everything.

But in the same vein, men shouldn't expect a woman to do her SO's laundry or cook dinner for him on a regular basis... and yet there are certainly working women who do that. (And men who expect it.) I think there are some people who enjoy fulfilling certain aspects of traditional gender roles. And I do think that includes guys. ("Southern gentlemen," for example.) As long as both parties are happy, who cares? I carry mace and get annoyed when a guy tries to insist on walking me to my car, other girls think its incredibly sweet. Some guys like to offer their company, some don't. It takes all kinds...

 

[Artifice Orisit]

But in the same vein, men shouldn't expect a woman to do her SO's laundry or cook dinner for him on a regular basis...

Unless he/she is being financially supported by the other, but I know what you maen.

 

[SEELE01]

But in the same vein, men shouldn't expect a woman to do her SO's laundry or cook dinner for him on a regular basis... and yet there are certainly working women who do that. (And men who expect it.) I think there are some people who enjoy fulfilling certain aspects of traditional gender roles. And I do think that includes guys. ("Southern gentlemen," for example.) As long as both parties are happy, who cares? I carry mace and get annoyed when a guy tries to insist on walking me to my car, other girls think its incredibly sweet. Some guys like to offer their company, some don't. It takes all kinds...

So you MACE them!?


As far as fuffiling gender roles, my grandma had a firm hand and I would often feel it come down on the back of my head if I didnt open the door for a lady in the store or some shit . To this day I cuss myself out if I dont pick up some girls books for her. Fucking pavlov.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

Chivalry is dead, women killed it. If there were more feminine equality I could go to the bar alone and girls would obnoxiously hit on ME and buy ME drinks. It seems to me women want some equality but they still want an easy ride.

 

[Enne]

Why would you want a bunch of strangers bothering you and attempting to push items on you that you never asked for? :S

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

Why would you want a bunch of strangers bothering you and attempting to push items on you that you never asked for? :S

Just trying to make a point is all.

 

[kantor1003]

@-kantor1003
I just wish the whole "special treatment" issue could be settled once and for all, it's a double edged sword in a way, like responsibility. We could go back to the old system of women and gentlemen were women had little power or independence, thereby justifying the special treatment they were given, i.e. it was improper for women to go out alone at night, and it was a man's responsibility to escort them. But in a modern society that values gender equality it's unfair for women to demand chivalrous attentiveness, a man should be free to treat women with the same dignified apathy he would give to any other (non-impaired) man.

It should be one way, or the other, one can't have everything.

Glad you made that point, I wanted to bring that up. Yes, in todays society when it's all about gender equality, why not go all the way applying it to social situations as well?
I am not that pro "gender equality" though...we are different, and that's a good thing. Therefore, total equality in all areas of life between two genders that are fundamentally different is an impossible task.

 

[truthseeker72]

Glad you made that point, I wanted to bring that up. Yes, in todays society when it's all about gender equality, why not go all the way applying it to social situations as well?
I am not that pro "gender equality" though...we are different, and that's a good thing. Therefore, total equality in all areas of life between two genders that are fundamentally different is an impossible task.

Aaah, but are men and women "fundamentally"different? Of course, there exists obvious anatomical differences, and as women are fond of pointing out, they endure pregnancy and men don't. Still, I question the conventional wisdom of "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" that has become the default way of thinking over the last 15-20 years. As I pointed out in another thread, women are just as likely to commit domestic violence as men. Women, just like men, are drawn to physically attractive members of the opposite gender, and favor muscular, good-looking men for sexual encounters. (shock, gasp . . . yes, its true, see the 2007 study performed by UCLA researcher David Frederick). In recent years, women have also reached men in terms of drug and alcohol addiction rates. I could continue, but I don't want to beat a dead horse.

If gender behavioral differences are much more a product of "nurture" than "nature", and 21st century women rightfully demand equality in the workplace and under the law, (which they have actually enjoyed in the U.S. for several decades), then why do many of them still insist on having their dinners paid for, having overly expensive engagement rings bought for them, scoff at the idea of having to ask out a man, and still quote mom's directive to "marry well." Fortunately, there a number of women who do not insist on these privileges, but they still constitute a small minority. For the 21st century Western man, it often feels like we've been asked to forego the benefits of patriachy, while still having to bear its responsibilities. Cog already alluded to this, as have other male posters in this forum. When will true gender equality exist? When female attorneys marry blue-collar men.

Note: Before anyone thinks that Truthseeker is a sexist bastard, I want to make it clear that I do not favor a return to the pre-sexual revolution patriarchy. Women should have all of the options in life that men have. My concern is that now, men do not have the same number of options as women.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Excellent post truthseeker72

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I concur with truthseeker, found the words I couldn't quite come up with. I think there are a lot of women that don't want full equality. Some want equality but if you presented that argument to them would probably be offended. I think only about 10% would agree with that. Such a shame more women don't think as much as they should logically. I know that's one of the key sex differences logic vs. emotion, but sometimes I think many women use that as a crutch to not think or are just incapable of it. Maybe too emotionally overwhelmed to think?

 

[kantor1003]

Aaah, but are men and women "fundamentally"different? Of course, there exists obvious anatomical differences, and as women are fond of pointing out, they endure pregnancy and men don't. Still, I question the conventional wisdom of "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" that has become the default way of thinking over the last 15-20 years. As I pointed out in another thread, women are just as likely to commit domestic violence as men. Women, just like men, are drawn to physically attractive members of the opposite gender, and favor muscular, good-looking men for sexual encounters. (shock, gasp . . . yes, its true, see the 2007 study performed by UCLA researcher David Frederick). In recent years, women have also reached men in terms of drug and alcohol addiction rates. I could continue, but I don't want to beat a dead horse.

"Men are from Mars, woman are from venus" (isn't that a book btw?) has always been the way we have looked at it.. it is rather opposite, that now it seems to fade in our age of equality. You should continue, because none of the examples given explain wether there is something fundamentally different in the way we think, what drives us etc. Sure, woman have sexual needs as well, but their sexual habits are different in nature which again affect their sex behavior which again affect how they think. We men are instinctively born to plant our seeds in as many woman as possible for best being able to pass our genes. Woman are instinctively born to find a healthy man that can give her the best possible offspring. It lays in the cards that woman in general will have a much more reserved way of making sexual connections. Or, in other words, they are choosing their mate. You are trying to get her to choose you. Metaphorically you can look at the way we have sex, you are the one inserting and she is the one receiving. She choose if she want to receive or not.
I believe much of our behavior is being deducted from our primitive brain. If we are to look at the primitive brain in action, without the interference of social dogmas and our intellectualism, you should look at the animal kingdom. There they clearly have difference between male and female. I think it is just that our intellect makes the whole process much more difficult than it is.

The way we speak/think are different as well. Woman get better along with woman and men get better along with men. It seems that our way of reasoning and our thought processes differs greatly.. girls are more interested talking about relationships/feelings/social relationships etc. while boys are more inclined to talk about functionality/mechanics/hunting. There is even a difference in the way we are making small talk. Guys often makes jokes about the other ones behalf to express that "hey, we are good enough friends that I can make jokes about you without you taking it as an insult". Girls are more prone to talk about their lives, past relations and their family to establish a connection. Wiki small talk, I believe it is written there.

Long time ago, men was out hunting, woman took care of their inhabitat while they was gone. When you are out hunting, there isn't much chit chat being practised. The girls however, back at the residents doing what's had to be done there, had plenty of opportunities to talk..which can explain why girls in general has a social sense far more developed by men.

If there isn't any difference between men and woman, why the lack of female einstein's, bethoven's, da vincies, platon's etc. etc. if you look in science and in the arts there is practically none females of any historic importance. Sure, you can say that it is the social dogmas doing all the work not giving woman the opportunity at all to contribute, but I am not willing to give so much credit to that. Also, there is a reason why we have the social patterns we do...they arn't based on something that isn't there. If woman had a natural need to invent etc. they would have and the social conditions would have worked in a way that made them able to.
Since woman are the one being able to choose their partner, maybe they don't have that big need to show off themselves. I am not saying that mozart and all the others did what they did just to show off for woman and get laid, but maybe that has been a primitive foundation that has affected our behavioral and interess patterns.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

In most species the males are the more colorful ones so as to display their dominant traits to the females. The females would choose based on which one is the most colorful, sings the best song, etc.....Ironically in some species of birds there is a genetic mutation among some males which causes their songs to be more complex but physically their genetics are weaker than many other males of their species and get chosen because of their more complex songs....I'm gonna go on a limb here and say I think the same could be said of humans. I use the adhd male that runs their mouth too much and puts himself out there all the time as an example.

 

[snowqueen]

If gender behavioral differences are much more a product of "nurture" than "nature", and 21st century women rightfully demand equality in the workplace and under the law, (which they have actually enjoyed in the U.S. for several decades), then why do many of them still insist on having their dinners paid for, having overly expensive engagement rings bought for them, scoff at the idea of having to ask out a man, and still quote mom's directive to "marry well."

This is why

I have been told by countless women friends that 'my problem' is that I won't follow The Rules. Maybe they're right? Maybe the problem is that so many men still want to play the hunter and don't like upfront intelligent women so women have to resort to playing by The Rules? Who knows. I haven't a clue. Re your example, Truthseeker - I think you're right about gender equality - my colleague is a (male) occupational therapist and is married to a consultant psychiatrist (don't know what non-UK equivalent is but it's the most senior you can be here) and lots of people can't believe why she married him (such a 'lowly' profession compared to a doctor!).

Sure, woman have sexual needs as well, but their sexual habits are different in nature which again affect their sex behavior which again affect how they think. We men are instinctively born to plant our seeds in as many woman as possible for best being able to pass our genes. Woman are instinctively born to find a healthy man that can give her the best possible offspring. It lays in the cards that woman in general will have a much more reserved way of making sexual connections.

The instinct of women to find the best possible partner doesn't naturally lead to them being more reserved - on the contrary, there is some evidence that women have multiple partners in order to increase their chances and 1 in 25 men are bringing up children who aren't their own. In fact some evolutionary biologists say that the reason that men are 'instictively' jealous is because women like to have multiple partners or else there would be no reason for them to be jealous.If men are instinctively born to plant seeds everywhere (and for some reason can't overcome their instincts) then we can excuse rape, infidelity etc.? These arguments based on 'nature' and 'instinct' are fairly specious when you dig beneath the surface.

But maybe those of us who are a little more highly evolved beyond 'instinctive' approaches to sex and relationships are in a tiny minority?

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

There was a scientific study done that showed more often than not the quiet guy in the corner women almost never consider is most likely the best choice for raising offspring. Maybe a biases study, maybe true. I would most likely be a good parent but I have absolutely no desire for it, besides I am much too unstable career/monetary wise to be any good in this aspect.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

The instinct of women to find the best possible partner doesn't naturally lead to them being more reserved - on the contrary, there is some evidence that women have multiple partners in order to increase their chances and 1 in 25 men are bringing up children who aren't their own. In fact some evolutionary biologists say that the reason that men are 'instictively' jealous is because women like to have multiple partners or else there would be no reason for them to be jealous.If men are instinctively born to plant seeds everywhere (and for some reason can't overcome their instincts) then we can excuse rape, infidelity etc.? These arguments based on 'nature' and 'instinct' are fairly specious when you dig beneath the surface.

But maybe those of us who are a little more highly evolved beyond 'instinctive' approaches to sex and relationships are in a tiny minority?

The competition/jealousy is scientifically proven to create stronger sperm in the males.

 

[studebaker]

There is a book titled 'Sperm Wars' which discusses the nature of why people act the way they do in relation to reproduction. I highly suggest it.

 

[truthseeker72]

Fascinating posts. Snow Queen, please don't listen to your girlfriends' advice about "The Rules." Females who play hard to get, and insist on being coy and demure all of the time, do not impress me. In fact, these girls (they don't deserve to be called women) annoy me, and have caused me, on occasion, to curse my heterosexuality. Contrary to the claims put forth by arm-chair anthropologists, I am not "wired" to hunt for women, or anything else, for that matter. Women do in fact, compete for the attention of men all of the time, as well as vice-versa. If a woman approaches me in a social setting, and engages me in a stimulating conversation (which has happened on numeorus occasions) I'm just as content as if I had initiated the encounter. In fact, I prefer being the "target" because I expend less energy that way

I'm not just speaking for my eccentric INTP-self either. If you asked most heterosexual Western men whether they would have an issue with an attractive woman hitting on them, the majority would be just fine with that.

My underlying point is that there exists a maddening inconsistency with gender equality. It should apply to romance/relationships as well as civil rights.

P.S. I hold "The Rules" in the same esteem as I do "Men are from Mars, Women are Venus"-good as paperweights and nothing more. Both of these books relentlessly and unapologetically stereotype both men and women. Memo to the authors of "The Rules": If a woman doesn't return my call, I'm not calling her again! Now, if she does call me back, I know that I'm dealing with a mature, considerate woman who might be interested in me. If I wasn't a freedom-loving libertarian, I would lobby to have both of these insiduous pieces of garbage banned from bookstores and libraries everywhere.

 

[snowqueen]

lol truthseeker - No worries on that score - I wouldn't be able to do it even if I wanted to!

 

[Deleted member 1424]

This is why

That site literally gave me the chills Snow. The smiles are really freaky.

If gender behavioral differences are much more a product of "nurture" than "nature", and 21st century women rightfully demand equality in the workplace and under the law, (which they have actually enjoyed in the U.S. for several decades), then why do many of them still insist on having their dinners paid for, having overly expensive engagement rings bought for them, scoff at the idea of having to ask out a man, and still quote mom's directive to "marry well."

While I whole-heatedly agree; such behavior is enforced by both sexes. For example my ex and I would get into small arguments about such things all the time. He'd insist to pay for me and I'd insist to pay my own way. I'd actually feel guilty about stubbornly paying my own fair. I felt like an ungrateful brat for refusing his chivalry. He implied on more then one occasion that he thought I didn't take him seriously as an SO because of this. Anyway my point is that gender equality will never be truly realized until men stop indulging women (in hope for sex, approval, or whatnot), and women stop expecting indulgences. Both sides need to change their behaviors and to stop enforcing these stupid societal 'rules'.

If there isn't any difference between men and woman, why the lack of female einstein's, bethoven's, da vincies, platon's etc. etc. if you look in science and in the arts there is practically none females of any historic importance. Sure, you can say that it is the social dogmas doing all the work not giving woman the opportunity at all to contribute, but I am not willing to give so much credit to that.

It's not just social dogma Kantor. Back then women didn't have access to the same education as men and they were considered inferior in every possible aspect. You can't just brush off things like that. It's like saying African Americans weren't enslaved because of social stigma and discrimination. Rather just that they were just naturally inclined to be slaves. Besides look at your list. They are all male right? Do you notice any other similarities?

Kantor did you know that the invention/discovery of agriculture is attributed to women? Agriculture has allowed for greater populations, which allowed for cities, written language, mathematics and civilization as we know it. So yeah women are of little 'historical importance' except that without their contributions we'd still be in pre-historic stages.

 

[snowqueen]

If there isn't any difference between men and woman, why the lack of female einstein's, bethoven's, da vincies, platon's etc. etc. if you look in science and in the arts there is practically none females of any historic importance. Sure, you can say that it is the social dogmas doing all the work not giving woman the opportunity at all to contribute, but I am not willing to give so much credit to that.

In one word - children. Pre-contraception, women's energy was taken up with child-rearing. Most of the women in science and art who were successful were either childless or rich enough not to have to look after their own children.

The other issue is being written out of history and not taught about at school - I least I had Boadicea as a role model thanks to growing up in the UK and having a Ladybird book!

Economics is the third factor - when men are in charge, it's jobs for the boys - the 50s perfect housewife was a calculated advertising campaign designed to get all those women who were welders, engineers, builders etc. during the war back into the kitchen so the jobs would go back to the men after the war.


http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl/9780609806951.html

 

[Minuend]

"Men are from Mars, woman are from venus" (isn't that a book btw?) has always been the way we have looked at it.. it is rather opposite, that now it seems to fade in our age of equality. You should continue, because none of the examples given explain wether there is something fundamentally different in the way we think, what drives us etc. Sure, woman have sexual needs as well, but their sexual habits are different in nature which again affect their sex behavior which again affect how they think. We men are instinctively born to plant our seeds in as many woman as possible for best being able to pass our genes. Woman are instinctively born to find a healthy man that can give her the best possible offspring. [...]

I've heard that humans are meant to find one partner and stick with it. The tendency certainly points that way. Most societies have a preference for monogamous relationships. And even when polygamy is normal, most people keep only one partner, or have at least one favorite spouse. The mechanism that makes us attracted to other while being in relationships, is the same mechanism that makes us fall in love again if our current spouse dies. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to love more than once.

The way we speak/think are different as well. Woman get better along with woman and men get better along with men. It seems that our way of reasoning and our thought processes differs greatly.. girls are more interested talking about relationships/feelings/social relationships etc. while boys are more inclined to talk about functionality/mechanics/hunting. There is even a difference in the way we are making small talk. Guys often makes jokes about the other ones behalf to express that "hey, we are good enough friends that I can make jokes about you without you taking it as an insult". Girls are more prone to talk about their lives, past relations and their family to establish a connection. Wiki small talk, I believe it is written there.

I thought this was more of cognitive function- thing? Which is not entirely scientifically.

Long time ago, men was out hunting, woman took care of their inhabitat while they was gone. When you are out hunting, there isn't much chit chat being practised. The girls however, back at the residents doing what's had to be done there, had plenty of opportunities to talk..which can explain why girls in general has a social sense far more developed by men.

Actually, men were out hunting and women were collectors and built houses. Men decided everything that had to do with hunting, women arranged all the collecting and house- building. Women weren't sitting around gossiping all day..

If there isn't any difference between men and woman, why the lack of female einstein's, bethoven's, da vincies, platon's etc. etc. if you look in science and in the arts there is practically none females of any historic importance. Sure, you can say that it is the social dogmas doing all the work not giving woman the opportunity at all to contribute, but I am not willing to give so much credit to that. Also, there is a reason why we have the social patterns we do...they arn't based on something that isn't there. If woman had a natural need to invent etc. they would have and the social conditions would have worked in a way that made them able to.

Wow.

Women weren't allowed to go to classes, they didn't learn science, math and such. It wasn't enough to get educated at least. They weren't allowed to go to universities. You have a great barrier already. How can you create without knowledge? How can you expand and understand? Of course you can study on your own, but how would you know you'd be interested in something you've never tried?

When they were working in teams with men, even when they lead the team, it wasn't easy for them to get credit. The people who published science articles sometimes changed the order of the names on the papers. Usually, the lead- scientist had their name first. Most wouldn't publish anything with a woman's name if she studied alone. Some women published their work in their husbands names. And when a married couple worked together, people assumed that the man was responsible for the major discoveries even though it was the woman who worked most passionately.

Even when women worked for years and years, and even when they made huge discoveries, universities wouldn't hire them. Some had to win the Nobel price in science before they might, several years later, get a job. Usually they had to be underpaid assistants, though they were the brains. Some worked for free in basement laboratories. They weren't allowed to mingle with men. Which meant men could discuss news and discoveries in science among each other, women could not.

That's all the obstacles I could think of now, there's probably more.

 

[truthseeker72]

^Adair: I agree that some men stubbornly adhere to "The Rules" as well (they're probably SJ types). These men attach their masculine identity to
playing the role of the "knight in shining armor" saving the "damsel in distress." They annoy me as much as the women who demand such treatment.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

The women that play the "damsel in distress" piss me off the most. I had this one girl do that to me just to get some kind of emotional reassurance on her part or something like that. It is a manipulative behavior at its core. I won't get into the fine details of the conversation but she was saying how she was all depressed, sounded a lot like me minus the hardcore drug use. I think this had to do with the fact she was trying to feel me out to see if I was into the same drugs as her(COCAINE and HEROIN) which I am not into. I'm not opposed to being around them as it makes sexual acts more likely but usually people on a drug don't like to be around people not on said drug. Don't mind me , I'm just off on another tangent as usual.

 

[Waterstiller]

My underlying point is that there exists a maddening inconsistency with gender equality. It should apply to romance/relationships as well as civil rights.

I agree with some of your points.. but I'm not sure you've gone down far enough into the gender rabbit hole. How would you feel about a woman who didn't shave at all? I think some things are inherently attractive to some people. There's this aspect of 'being taken care of' that femmes generally seem to like and as a straight guy you're going to have a tough time finding a partner who wants romantic equality since so many of them ARE femmes. And if they aren't they're having to deal with society and family telling them how they should act. There are women out there who would date a guy on equal terms or maybe even reverse the traditional roles though.

The sort of consistency you're looking for might be more easily found in grad students. Any girl that identifies as androgynous or genderqueer might be right up your ally, too. (lol) But yeah.. once you find yourself in these relationships you might find inconsistencies popping up that you could be causing.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I thin men and women should shave. I personally like the look and feel of being shaved. Aside from hair on my head and the short unnoticeable ones on my body for immune defense purposes I would love to have no hair. We aren't wild beasts anymore.

 

[promethea]

Toad,

Your line of thinking appears to be backwards. The issue is not external, but internal. Think about this:

Pedophiles desire children. According to your logic, for a pedophile, the root of all evil is children. For a dieter, it's chocolate cake. Children and chocolate cake, in and of themselves, are neutral. The problem exists with the subject, not the object.

Evil resides only in human thought. Think about it - if the world existed without humans, or without thinking humans at least, there would be no such thing. Evil exists in the mind, and the mind is always internal, not some external object.

If you feel controlled, that is YOUR issue, your weakness, one that you alone must wrestle with. You could say that if children did not exist, there would be no such thing as a pedophile. But it's the pedophile's nature that makes him what he is, not the child.

 

[truthseeker72]

I agree with some of your points.. but I'm not sure you've gone down far enough into the gender rabbit hole. How would you feel about a woman who didn't shave at all? I think some things are inherently attractive to some people. There's this aspect of 'being taken care of' that femmes generally seem to like and as a straight guy you're going to have a tough time finding a partner who wants romantic equality since so many of them ARE femmes. And if they aren't they're having to deal with society and family telling them how they should act. There are women out there who would date a guy on equal terms or maybe even reverse the traditional roles though.

The sort of consistency you're looking for might be more easily found in grad students. Any girl that identifies as androgynous or genderqueer might be right up your ally, too. (lol) But yeah.. once you find yourself in these relationships you might find inconsistencies popping up that you could be causing.

You pinpointed the most frustrating aspect of my relationships with women. I've never been able to reconcile this all-too-common female desire to be taken care of by their man, with the notion of gender equality that has been drilled into my psyche for all thirty-seven years of my existence. Again, I agree that women are not inherently better or worse at achieving success than men. So, as an INTP who craves ideological consistency, I just can't wrap by brain around the outdated notion of women needing men to take care of them. In short, if women are equal to men, then why do so many of them choose to be dependent on a man?

My attraction for independent, mentally strong women does not in any way translate to my physical preferences, though. I really don't think there's a connection between a woman's attitude and her look. Essentially, I'm physically attracted to women who look feminine (e.g. long hair, hourglass shape, moderate use of makeup), but who act with a "masculine" edge. Know anyone?

 

[Xel]

I have a guess that, to some degree at least, women must be just as frustrated with men as men are with women. And not for the stereotypical "they are annoyed because the only thing men think about is sex" but actually the same sort of thing I hear all the time from men "they only go after the attractive bitches/jerks". This seems like more of a universal cry at the fact that only attractive people seem dateable and that superficial personalities are presented as normal and charming in pop culture. Is there any support for this idea?

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

Women are more into sex than guys are, however, they have to deal with being labeled as thing like whore and slut. For a male its a compliment but its the opposite for females. The ultimate injustice in all of this is females have more sexual wiring and a stronger sex drive than males as well as the only known body part among either sex that exists purely for pleasure.

 

[SEELE01]

Women are more into sex than guys are, however, they have to deal with being labeled as thing like whore and slut. For a male its a compliment but its the opposite for females. The ultimate injustice in all of this is females have more sexual wiring and a stronger sex drive than males as well as the only known body part among either sex that exists purely for pleasure.

I can honostly say that I never understood taking in pride in being promiscuos. I would probably be offended if someone accused me of that, I just probably wouldnt show it.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I wouldn't mind being somewhat promiscuous but not mindlessly. It also seems like promiscuity is associated with many other negative behaviors I DO have a problem with. Mindlessness, destructive habits, disease, violence, stealing, basically being the "bad boy" which I never liked/understood. Its like you engage in one type of behavior you have to engage in them all. Kind of like the one size fits all approach many have when it comes to drug perception. Its like all drugs are bad who cares which ones are worse than others lets just put them all into one category: bad. Its like saying, I'm gonna consider yellow to be in the red category because its closer to red than blue, ignoring the possibility that there could be a green category. Between the misconceptions when it comes to sex and drugs things never cease to piss me off.

 

[Kuu]

I wouldn't mind being somewhat promiscuous but not mindlessly. It also seems like promiscuity is associated with many other negative behaviors I DO have a problem with. Mindlessness, destructive habits, disease, violence, stealing, basically being the "bad boy" which I never liked/understood.

Indeed. But sex in itself isn't inherently wrong, and thus promiscuity is not necessarily negative. It's a stupid mental block that society has kept from the past and that it should get rid of.

My attraction for independent, mentally strong women does not in any way translate to my physical preferences, though. I really don't think there's a connection between a woman's attitude and her look. Essentially, I'm physically attracted to women who look feminine (e.g. long hair, hourglass shape, moderate use of makeup), but who act with a "masculine" edge. Know anyone?

My tragic belief is that women like these, that I'm also attracted to, would be precisely the kind of women to turn me down based on finding me insufficient. Not at her level, both physically and intellectually. Cause I can't look for a woman less smart and less attractive. Have I just defined my ideal woman as that which I can never have; smartness as realizing that I'm not someone good to be with? Damn high standards and self-defeating attitudes.... I'm hopeless.

 

[Waterstiller]

Tekton.. you wouldn't have any problems in the dating department if they saw your room.

 

[HDINTP]

This thread got a point for me. Yes we do a lot of things to have sex. But i still don´t consider it as so important thing. What should we do here? When i don´t count reproduction there really may not be much really. Can i describe woman as half devil - half angel? It surely depends on the situation. Can i say that we are trapped here? I don´t have problem with men or women. Things usually work on a pursuant of my actions. Something like pain? Well maybe but i think you can still deal with that. For some period of time i couldn´t deal with a fact i should have children you know but well i probably won´t anyway but i am going to talk in general. What would you like to do here. Do you think that you can rescue your mind somehow from these on second thought without being forced to more useless things? So you can do a lot because of woman but you can also be your self in the same time. You can do whatever you want. You can rescue yourself completely. Have you ever had a feeling of being liquid of water in the sea? What if you were a waterfall? Think about it...

 

[snafupants]

Okay, you guys just hang out with horrible women. There are plenty of girls who have payed for dinner on dates, have asked a guy out, and who respect their bodies enough to not use them as bargaining chips.

The sure-fire way to never meet a nice girl? Compile a long list of reasons women are evil and post it online.

Seriously though, smart and independent girls will avoid you like the plague if you appear even the slightest bit bitter or sexist. It's just not logical to place yourself with someone who seems predisposed to hate you.

Are you having me on? Where are these women you speak of? El Dorado like on Seinfeld with the meat factory/club that George bitterly fails to show Jerry perhaps? Is this a ruse or a dream you had the night before you posted?

Women don't really hold any control or discernible influence over my actions. I keep on quite friendly terms with my ex-girlfiends so, if I'm desperate, I won't need to do something random and disgraceful in a seedy bar.

 

[Lydia]

Ok... this threads title description for women'The root of all evil' - That is similar to saying babies are the root of all innocence. When in actual fact, you don't know what innocence could really be. But are giving the benefit of the doubt and praise to a "process".

Similarly, women are being judged and overexaggerated because of what...? I could only think that they are biologically different from men and that would be the only reason such remarks come about.

They are only human, not gods, not devils. Likewise men. When you say 'Woman'... are you talking about any particular? If not, and this is said in general. Then it is unjust to those women, who are not falling under this category. Thus, gives an upper-hand to certain men who have the same mentality as this thread is saying about women.

This whole bias statements to do with gender, gender comparison and pre-judgement by generalization with gender. Is too repetitive and expected. Rather typical just to be exact.