Witnessing a Suicide

[LPolaright]

Today I've been a witness in a suicide amongst dozens of other fellows.

ATTENTION: Read with discretion. Otherwise it might not be healthy.

Spoiler

It happened in a train station, someone decided to jump to the tracks, and sit on them in front of everyone. An express train was seen 1 minute away, we all urged him to come back up but he did not answer. Then the train came...

It makes you wonder, what could possibly make someone do such a thing. He seemed happy and at peace, even when the train was closing in...

I'm not sure if what I saw is blood or pieces of the trains red headlights.

I don't know how to cope. I'm probably going to take a real look in a thread I read here once - something about trauma. All I want to know, is why.

With the army coming up... I have no idea what to do. I'm suddenly clueless. A life was taken before my eyes and I can't bear to think that perhaps it was my fault, how could I not notice?

I'm sorry I'm bombing this forum with such a sad thread, but I really have no one else to talk to, my parents are indifferent to my experience and my girlfriend is at the army... I don't have any friends, just random people I talk to on the MSN.

======================
An Important notice: I do not know this person, but I know I will remember him for the rest of my life, his face and the blank stares he gave to people.

He will not be forgotten - I will not let it happen.
======================

Thank you.

 

[Bird]

I complimented my best friend on the noose he used to hang himself.



It will be okay.


You can't blame this on yourself.
He was making himself happy.

 

[onthewindowstand]

I complimented my best friend on the noose he used to hang himself.



It will be okay.


You can't blame this on yourself.
He was making himself happy.

That is so demented

 

[JoeJoe]

Now, from a purely judicial point of view: Do you incur a penalty if you try and manage to save somebody from suicide through bodily force? I suspect that the person can't do anything if s/he didn't resist.

But nevermind, I'm looking it up now.

EDIT

In the United States, individuals who express the intent to harm themselves may be automatically determined to lack the present mental capacity to refuse treatment, and can be transported to the emergency department against their will.

German law interprets suicide as an accident and anyone present during suicide may be prosecuted for failure to render aid in an emergency. A suicide legally becomes emergency when a suicidal person loses consciousness. Failure to render aid is punishable under article 323c of the StGB, with a maximum one year jail sentence.

 

[Bird]

That is so demented

I DIDN'T KNOW

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Wow, this is like the thread I made a while ago but 1000x as traumatic :c
It feels weird huh? It will pass, probably way slower for you, but it will pass. You have to rationalize this thing happening, how awful it might be. Not saying you should forget it, and it's okay to feel weird and sad for a while, but eventually you have to realize you didn't know this person, and that it was his own decision. There's no way to change what happened, and many others have done this before him...

 

[Trebuchet]

It was good of you to warn readers before looking at the story.

It was not your fault. Through stupidity, despair, insanity, or who knows, the guy got himself killed. Maybe your actions could have made a difference. Maybe you could have gotten yourself killed too.

If the guy had fallen in accidentally, you might have had a decent chance of changing the outcome for the better, but he didn't want to be rescued.

I don't see any way to avoid asking yourself the question of what you should have done. I do think that in time, you will answer the question correctly, and tell yourself it was not your fault. Until you can tell yourself that, reread this thread from time to time and listen to us.

 

[stig]

Witnessing death for the first time can put you into a weird fog, and trigger "restore game" mode in your head as you try to replay the scenario to better fit how you wished it had gone. I always find forcing myself into distractions helps in these situations. I hope you handle it all well, good luck.

 

[Reluctantly]

How much time was he/she on the tracks for?

He's got some balls...I never understood how people could assert that suicide is about being weak. That must have taken a lot of strength to go against the instinctual programming we have to avoid physical harm.

But it's best not to worry about it now. It happened and there is nothing anyone can do about it now, but accept it. Maybe if it happens again you will try to help them, if you want? There's not much else to be thought of from this, really. These things will never go away, but people can help other people from entering such a state and reduce it, if desired.

 

[IfloatTHRUlife]

@ reluctantly - Its not necessarily weak, but it really doesn't take much strength, you have to realize that once you get to that point, you really don't care. And once you dont care, the only thing that does take strength is to dig yourself out, going through with it would take little thought. That is why the man seemed so peaceful, he was apparently just so sick of whatever was going on in his life, that he just stopped caring, and he found his way out.

So, it might not be a very pleasant thought, but he was probably happier while he was waiting for the train than he has been in a long time. So dont feel like its your fault, or that you could have done something to help him. Even if you got him off the tracks, to him, he would see it as you keeping him from what he wanted.

If anything, dont worry about him, worry about yourself, you can either settle with the thought that he wanted it to happen, or you can be angry that he put you and all of those people through what he did.. to make himself happy.

 

[Taniwha]

I could never assist with a suicide, their idea of happiness or freedom is a distorted illusion.
It is not the truth nor the solution to their problem or their sadness. Helping someone kill themselves is a lower act than the individual's own will for self eradication.
It makes me angry when I see or hear of others giving into an individual's inner demons, when they had the power to help stand against them.

What the hell is wrong with all you people?

To the OP, you tried. I'm not doubting for a second, and my sympathies are with you. Last year a few family friends committed suicide, and it hurts me today to think that I could of done something, said something, anything! You could of done more and unfortunately it was your own choice and the others around you not to (going by what you posted). I hope you and those people learn from this sad experience... I don't mean to beat up on you, but people need to realize that they are more stronger than they think, something could of been done. People who are in the state of suicide are not in reality. They are living their last moments through a nightmare. Where were you? Were you also dreaming, were the people around you dreaming? Regardless of how hopeless a situation may be, you will always have the power of choice. Take it. Control it. Don't let it slip through your fingers. Its not a dream that you can merely wake up from, its reality! Face death in the eyes, it is worth it when it means to save a life.

I had a similar situation when I was eight, with a girl who jumped out onto the train tracks with an oncoming train coming down the tracks. "Look at me!" I remember her shouting.
I was in a utter state of shock and horror. I had no idea what was going on. I was frozen and I remember crying out to her "Please! Get of the tracks there's a train coming!" she replied to me that she was going to show me something awesome. It was then a young boy (around the same age as me) leapt onto the tracks and tried to pull her off. The girl pushed him to the side of the platform. I then jumped onto the tracks and helped the boy get off the tracks. I then remember running as fast as I could to the nearest adult (who was on the other side of the platform) and said that there was a girl on the tracks. It took three brave adults to get her off the tracks with the oncoming train. I remember the train driver blaring his horn as he tried to stop the train.
Yes, I was small and felt even more so with a large freight train hurling down the tracks towards me, but I wasn't going to see anyone die that day. Even then I had the power of choice in my hands and that sixty seconds to make the choice. Many years have gone by and I still have nightmares but I would rather have those nightmares any day than to of had the blood of that young girl splattered on me. I learnt a valuable lesson from that young boy to have the courage to of done what he did.

Death is not okay, not when it can be prevented. By all means, put yourself first but don't forget about others either. We could say it was your fault, his fault, her fault, the trains fault, etc. but truth of the matter is that everyone who was involved had a part, including you. But how that individual's part was played out could of made the difference, it all adds up in the end.

The only way to learn and to understand is through the hard way. I hope that you seek help, an event/events like this can tear down an individual without you even realizing it.
Please by all means don't take this post the wrong way, death is already a slap to the face as it is.

 

[crippli]

All I want to know, is why.

I think you want something, that you can never get.

In my estimate people comit suicide most often due to a perceived difference\abnormality\freak from the group. Rejection. One way to make a difference is to do something. Include instead of exclude.

The strong devours the weak.

Japanese samurai tended to commit suicide during failure and breach of honour.

Not living up to expectations.

Just tired of it all, eating, shitting. Breathing. Sure takes it's toll.

Sickness, impending doom.

Who knows.

My guess in young suicides is them just being weird, and they realize they are, and becomes tired of swimming uphill. Everyone has a breaking point. Little you can do short of changing how the majority takes in and process sensory information. And for that you probably need to make a new religion that is less based on fear and hatred.

 

[terraxceles]

We all die one day. Had he not jumped in front of the train, he would have died eventually. For some reason he decided to leave earlier and you have no reason to feel guilty for that. The only thing that could have saved him (in his terms) was letting him die.

Death is not the end. It's only a transition into the unknown. Again, it was his choice, to make the transition earlier than he would have naturally. There's nothing you could have done for him.

(Reason? Depression, sickness, rejection, loss, guilt, or perhaps, philosophical curiosity)

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

It might be the ultimate libertarian notion to say that no one has the right to decide what another does with his or her life. I'm inclined to agree in some cases and in some methods. What this person did however put other lives at risk. What if you or another had jumped down and tried unsuccessfully attempted to pull him to safety? There are ways you can do it without harming another although there is still the matter of cleaning up. This is why I'm in favor of a legal suicide that takes care of such matters beforehand. It doesn't have to be assisted and I'm getting off topic....

If you do follow through with your previously stated career choice, chances are you are going to see at least the aftermath of deadly actions taken by others again. It's too early for you to decide that you don't "have it in you". If this is the first death you've witnesed, you are undoubtedly going through significant trauma right now. I'd advise you to see if you are able to cope with it and how you do it before letting it influence any life decisions. Who knows, with investigative authority, you may be able to find the answers as to why. Or you might find it all even more troubling. Only you can decide the difference.

 

[IfloatTHRUlife]

@ Taniwha - What you said is pretty messed up, whether you have been through something similar or not, you don't have the right to say something is wrong with the OP or us. If you feel the need to put your life in danger over the sad existence of someone else, then have at it, but don't scrutinize others.

Aside from that, there is a big difference between a little girl being stupid and a grown man who obviously knew what he was doing and what the consequences would be. You dont know what was going through that mans head.. he could have been completely out of his mind, you don't know what he might have done if someone jumped down to get him.

I do agree that someone could have done something, but its pretty messed up to say that everyone there was at fault for not wanting to risk their lives. Besides, you honestly don't know what that man went through to get to that point, it could have been something petty and he was just making a rash decision, or he could possibly just literally have nothing left to live for, regardless, that is his business.

I might be a little out of line in saying this, but if someone feels the need to be so self-righteous as to jump into immediate danger to save an absolute stranger, who put themselves into danger on purpose, you probably have just as many issues as they do. Life isnt a video game, you cant just hit reset, so if your going to just jump in and try to play the hero, you are just as suicidal as they are, just for different reasons.

 

[Lobstrich]

You can't blame this on yourself.

I absolutely HATE this sentence.. Why would ANYONE think that it's their fault that someone else jumped in front of a train, a complete stranger even.

It's always the first thing people say when something 'sad' happens.
"It's not your fault" Oh really?! It's not MY fault that HE killed himself? Who knew!

EDIT: Sure, if I was a complete ass to my friend, I really, really beat him up (mentally) Untill he got to the point where he would kill himself. One would probably call me the person who caused it, yet.. I was not the one who took the knife and slit his throat, was I?

 

[Minuend]

LPolaright, that's a normal reaction. Hope you'll be okay.

I could never assist with a suicide, their idea of happiness or freedom is a distorted illusion.
It is not the truth nor the solution to their problem or their sadness. Helping someone kill themselves is a lower act than the individual's own will for self eradication.
It makes me angry when I see or hear of others giving into an individual's inner demons, when they had the power to help stand against them.

What the hell is wrong with all you people?

Death is not okay, not when it can be prevented. By all means, put yourself first but don't forget about others either. We could say it was your fault, his fault, her fault, the trains fault, etc. but truth of the matter is that everyone who was involved had a part, including you. But how that individual's part was played out could of made the difference, it all adds up in the end.

I disagree. We never got to choose whether or not we wanted to live. If our lives are fucked up, I believe we're allowed to end our insignificant existences.

Many people live in unbearable pain. Some are paralysed, others have lived through various traumatic experiences. There's only so much someone can handle. We are not immortal, we are rather frail.

Why should we go on living no matter what?

Our lives are our own.

I absolutely HATE this sentence.. Why would ANYONE think that it's their fault that someone else jumped in front of a train, a complete stranger even.

It's always the first thing people say when something 'sad' happens.
"It's not your fault" Oh really?! It's not MY fault that HE killed himself? Who knew!

It's a common reaction after a traumatic experience. Often rape victims will feel guilt and shame and not press charges against the rapist. Humans are more complicated than
If P, then Q
Q
Therefore, P

 

[NeverSayMyName]

That's pretty extreme... and shocking to most people.
I've never seen that myself.

However, I have witnessed sucide attempts around 3 or 4 times, and that was a person who I lived with at the time.

My thoughts on suicide?
At first I believed it was stupid and that 'only cowards commit suicide'.
Then a few years back I felt like doing it myself, because it fascinated me more than everyday life which just made me feel sick and hopeless (and it still does to some extent). But I'm too hopeful and positive to commit suicide, I would never call myself a suicidal person, it's definitely not for me.

Nowadays, I'm indifferent to it.
I know it's extremely immoral and "sick" or whatever. But I believe people have rights to do whatever they want with their lives. And it doesn't even surprise me that some people choose to commit suicide, I understand their intentions.


I just think people shouldn't commit suicide in front of public, I feel sorry for the people who have to witness it.

 

[Lobstrich]

It's a common reaction after a traumatic experience. Often rape victims will feel guilt and shame and not press charges against the rapist.

Which is also ridicilous.

Humans are more complicated than
If P, then Q
Q
Therefore, P

What?? Maybe I'm just very tired (which I am) But that didn't make any sense.

 

[Minuend]

Which is also ridicilous.

An opinion with no logic supporting it.

What?? Maybe I'm just very tired (which I am) But that didn't make any sense.

It means a lot of things. For one, humans are not logical beings.

 

[Lobstrich]

An opinion with no logic supporting it.

Wrong. It is nothing but logic. It is not MY fault that YOU kill yourself. Logic.

It means a lot of things. For one, humans are not logical beings.

You know what part I didn't understand.. The P's and Q's.

 

[ApostateAbe]

A few years ago, my best friend committed suicide. I try not to begin a speech like that, because the first reaction of anyone is to say, "I'm so sorry," and that is inappropriate. It was a tragic circumstance, no doubt, but the tragedy was not the suicide by itself. The tragedy was the circumstance of his life. His situation was not typical. One year before his death, he got into a motorcycle accident as he traveled in Mexico, and he became paralyzed from the chest down.

Some people write suicide notes. My friend Clayton wrote a suicide book in Microsoft Word, and he gave it the title, Two Arms and a Head. In that book, with profound philosophical clarity (he was trained as a philosopher), he explained fully and convincingly why his life was a horrifying steaming shit pile. After reading the book, nobody can help but offer full sympathy for his decision. He presented many times more than enough evidence in support, and he tore apart every conceivable argument to the contrary. He continued writing after stabbing himself with a knife and blood poured out of his unfeeling intestines.

Clayton called me a few weeks before his death, and he told me about his plan to commit suicide. I said, "If that is what you plan on doing, then I give you my full support, and I won't try to stop you." He was happy to hear that. As I continued to talk with him, I became afraid of losing him, he being my best friend and I knowing no other person in the world to find the sort of provocative insight that Clayton had. I said, "I may change my support for your position, because you have a lot to give to the world. You have an amazing mind. You are brilliant." He did not want to hear that. I was the only person he know who offered a brief glimpse of support for his decision. After he ended his life and I read his book, I found how selfish, short-sighted and foolish my backsliding was.

That is the reason why I stand firm on the position that anyone who wants to end their own lives, for any reason, will not be discouraged by me. Almost every person knows best whether or not his or her life is worth continuing. If we want to solve the problem, then control your own overreaction to suicide. Suicide is an integral part of human nature, and it is often the best solution to bad situations, whether we want to admit it or not.

Clayton's book is worth reading for everybody, even though nobody would find the least pleasure in it, because it will make you feel wiser, and you will be. You can download it here:

http://www.4shared.com/document/yo3eVqzf/ClaytonsBookEdited.html

 

[Moocow]

A few years ago, my best friend committed suicide. I try not to begin a speech like that, because the first reaction of anyone is to say, "I'm so sorry," and that is inappropriate. It was a tragic circumstance, no doubt, but the tragedy was not the suicide by itself. The tragedy was the circumstance of his life. His situation was not typical. One year before his death, he got into a motorcycle accident as he traveled in Mexico, and he became paralyzed from the chest down.

Some people write suicide notes. My friend Clayton wrote a suicide book in Microsoft Word, and he gave it the title, Two Arms and a Head. In that book, with profound philosophical clarity (he was trained as a philosopher), he explained fully and convincingly why his life was a horrifying steaming shit pile. After reading the book, nobody can help but offer full sympathy for his decision. He presented many times more than enough evidence in support, and he tore apart every conceivable argument to the contrary. He continued writing after stabbing himself with a knife and blood poured out of his unfeeling intestines.

Clayton called me a few weeks before his death, and he told me about his plan to commit suicide. I said, "If that is what you plan on doing, then I give you my full support, and I won't try to stop you." He was happy to hear that. As I continued to talk with him, I became afraid of losing him, he being my best friend and I knowing no other person in the world to find the sort of provocative insight that Clayton had. I said, "I may change my support for your position, because you have a lot to give to the world. You have an amazing mind. You are brilliant." He did not want to hear that. I was the only person he know who offered a brief glimpse of support for his decision. After he ended his life and I read his book, I found how selfish, short-sighted and foolish my backsliding was.

That is the reason why I stand firm on the position that anyone who wants to end their own lives, for any reason, will not be discouraged by me. Almost every person knows best whether or not his or her life is worth continuing. If we want to solve the problem, then control your own overreaction to suicide. Suicide is an integral part of human nature, and it is often the best solution to bad situations, whether we want to admit it or not.

Clayton's book is worth reading for everybody, even though nobody would find the least pleasure in it, because it will make you feel wiser, and you will be. You can download it here:

http://www.4shared.com/document/yo3eVqzf/ClaytonsBookEdited.html

http://www.suicidenote.info/

 

[ApostateAbe]

http://www.suicidenote.info/

Clayton has competition! I figure I should likewise put Clayton's book on a website in proper formatting. Maybe that is what I'll do this winter break.

 

[Minuend]

Wrong. It is nothing but logic. It is not MY fault that YOU kill yourself. Logic.

The reaction is an emotional one. Saying it's illogical is somewhat like saying sexual lust is illogical. It's inherent in a lot of people's nature, if not most. I was talking about the emotional response itself, not the reasoning.

You know what part I didn't understand.. The P's and Q's.

I assume you recognize the example of a logical fallacy.

It was supposed to represent the human logical structure and how humans themselves do not fall within it. They do not respond as logically would be expected and they are not able to think clearly.

 

[Lobstrich]

The reaction is an emotional one. Saying it's illogical is somewhat like saying sexual lust is illogical. It's inherent in a lot of people's nature, if not most. I was talking about the emotional response itself, not the reasoning.



I assume you recognize the example of a logical fallacy.

It was supposed to represent the human logical structure and how humans themselves do not fall within it. They do not respond as logically would be expected and they are not able to think clearly.

Sure, emotions aren't logical. But thinking that it's MY fault that YOU killed yourself is not only illogical, it's ridiculous.

 

[Minuend]

Sure, emotions aren't logical. But thinking that it's MY fault that YOU killed yourself is not only illogical, it's ridiculous.

Now you're just going in circles.

 

[Melkor]

I have a lot to say, but I'm not entirely sure how to say it.

Hrm...

Your other thread bothered me, this too bothers me. I am incapable of making a proper comment at current, but my thoughts are with you.

Whatever that means...

 

[gephura]

ApostateAbe, your friends story really got to me. It also offers an interesting insight in how people think about these things.

One of my best friend's mother killed herself. My friend and I were 17 at the time. We searched the house for a suicide note, but found nothing. He later found a word document of 5 years ago, already struggling because she didn't want to live. It is my firm belief that she really thought she was doing him and his brother a favour, that they wouldn't be heartbroken, that they would go on with their life immediately afterwards.

I therefore agree that if you (I mean LPolaright) had saved him now, he would've tried it again. If that is comforting. You, being a stranger to him, were not able to fix the issues this man had.

 

[Lobstrich]

Now you're just going in circles.

I guess I am. But that doesn't change the fact that, that is how it is.

EDIT: Also, for some reason I'm getting this feeling that you think I'm not entitled to have an opinion about traumatic experiences and the "is it my fault?" thing.

 

[Minuend]

Are you saying that you have a feeling you can't back up with logic?

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Lobstrich]

Are you saying that you have a feeling you can't back up with logic?

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

No, then I would have siad "i have a feeling I can't back up with logic"

 

[Minuend]

Edit, I won't spam anymore

 

[Lobstrich]

Edit, I won't spam anymore

Are you suggesting that I spam?

 

[Moocow]

What are you guys even arguing about, and is it really appropriate?

Clayton has competition! I figure I should likewise put Clayton's book on a website in proper formatting. Maybe that is what I'll do this winter break.

Man, I just read the last few pages of your friends book. Brutal.

 

[cheese]

A few years ago, my best friend committed suicide. I try not to begin a speech like that, because the first reaction of anyone is to say, "I'm so sorry," and that is inappropriate. It was a tragic circumstance, no doubt, but the tragedy was not the suicide by itself. The tragedy was the circumstance of his life. His situation was not typical. One year before his death, he got into a motorcycle accident as he traveled in Mexico, and he became paralyzed from the chest down.

Some people write suicide notes. My friend Clayton wrote a suicide book in Microsoft Word, and he gave it the title, Two Arms and a Head. In that book, with profound philosophical clarity (he was trained as a philosopher), he explained fully and convincingly why his life was a horrifying steaming shit pile. After reading the book, nobody can help but offer full sympathy for his decision. He presented many times more than enough evidence in support, and he tore apart every conceivable argument to the contrary. He continued writing after stabbing himself with a knife and blood poured out of his unfeeling intestines.

Clayton called me a few weeks before his death, and he told me about his plan to commit suicide. I said, "If that is what you plan on doing, then I give you my full support, and I won't try to stop you." He was happy to hear that. As I continued to talk with him, I became afraid of losing him, he being my best friend and I knowing no other person in the world to find the sort of provocative insight that Clayton had. I said, "I may change my support for your position, because you have a lot to give to the world. You have an amazing mind. You are brilliant." He did not want to hear that. I was the only person he know who offered a brief glimpse of support for his decision. After he ended his life and I read his book, I found how selfish, short-sighted and foolish my backsliding was.

That is the reason why I stand firm on the position that anyone who wants to end their own lives, for any reason, will not be discouraged by me. Almost every person knows best whether or not his or her life is worth continuing. If we want to solve the problem, then control your own overreaction to suicide. Suicide is an integral part of human nature, and it is often the best solution to bad situations, whether we want to admit it or not.

Clayton's book is worth reading for everybody, even though nobody would find the least pleasure in it, because it will make you feel wiser, and you will be. You can download it here:

http://www.4shared.com/document/yo3eVqzf/ClaytonsBookEdited.html

Just finished reading that; very compelling. What an incredible story. I agree with so many of the things he's said, and it's given me extra courage.

It's horribly tragic that it happened, that that became the only option. The solitude is added suck. I really do hope laws on this change soon.

I assume you were Honest Abe?

 

[NeverSayMyName]

That is very fascinating indeed. Thanks for that download link, ApostateAbe.


Now, I can't get over the fact that righteous and honest individuals have to go through this shit whereas greedy and ignorant people who (in my book) don't even deserve to live, are out there happy and free...

 

[Firehazard159]

Odd, maybe it's just that ... i forget the term, where something happens in your life, and you continually notice it, but I'm seeing a lot of suicide threads pop up here and there.

@OP - In regards to why, I can't tell you why he did it, but I never really understood the point of asking why - but that's probably because I've felt suicidal more than my fair share of times. When you apply the feeling and reasoning behind that, there really is no "why" to it, just understanding that they felt they needed to. Whether they did (need to) or not, is rather irrelevant, because the emotional pressure was so strong. Most things you can recover from in life. Not everyone *wants* to recover. I often find myself why I'm still here day after day, there's certainly no reason for me to be, I don't particularly feel like living, but dying is equally pointless to me. Put some heavy emotional stress on me, and chances are, not living is going to greatly outweigh living.

My life has no particular value or purpose - I know many would argue otherwise, but there is nothing I can contribute to life on the grand scheme of things that won't be contributed by someone else, I'm simply another sheep amongst the flock, another mouth to feed and another wool coat to shear.

I sometimes wonder if I could get myself out of that mindset, if I could actually apply myself to become valuable and purposeful, but whenever I make the effort, it pushes me more towards feeling like not-living rather than living. So I stay neutral in almost all efforts, and drift through life.

I guess, I'm just trying to give you insight as to why someone might be suicidal and follow through with it. The reasoning behind the peacefulness and calm before the act, is typically because of resolution. Their problems are finally at an end, and they know it. (at least, an end for them.) - It gives them a feeling of control and confidence, that they probably didn't have only hours before, when if you saw them, they'd of been distraught. (Possibly, this is mostly speculation from my personal experience and knowledge from, well, having been through a few suicides in my lifetime, and all the counseling that goes with.)

But then, maybe it's all not so insightful, as I'm still alive. But, it's more thoughts to process. I surely wouldn't blame a single person were I to ever do it.

 

[Minuend]

I've finished the book as well. Interesting read, I liked it. Some of it I agreed with, some I did not.

It kinda made me think that you really can't write an sufficient argument in <50 pages.

I learned something about myself reading this. I feel like I've peeled off another layer in my mind, reaching further down my psyche.

 

[gephura]

This book humbles me. It's exactly as he puts it, I do feel it's an incredible waste that such an able and well-read guy has to die. But he convinced me he needed to.

 

[Skinart]

The first thing to do when dealing with a situation like in the OP, is to remember the following:

It's not about you.

It helps the struggle to make sense of it go away because you realize, "It's not about you." The pieces don't fit your personal solipsist jigsaw puzzle because they aren't your pieces.

There's still stress involved, and there's still some open questions about whether or not something could have been done to create a different outcome. But remembering that some random person jumping in front of a train and waiting for it to hit them isn't about you helps cut away huge swaths of crud from the problem.

Directly responding to one of the open questions in the OP: When a person commits to suicide, they generally have inner peace. It's one of the symptoms to be aware of for people at risk of suicide. When someone who has been heavily depressed suddenly seems calm and relaxed, it can be an indicator of a decision to take their own life. This is because all those inner battles have been resolved.

 

[ApostateAbe]

Just finished reading that; very compelling. What an incredible story. I agree with so many of the things he's said, and it's given me extra courage.

It's horribly tragic that it happened, that that became the only option. The solitude is added suck. I really do hope laws on this change soon.

I assume you were Honest Abe?

Yes, I am Honest Abe. Almost everyone who starts reading the book cannot stop until the end, and they become profoundly moved by it. This book has power, and it has the potential to become the manifesto for the right to death among the disabled. I just need to figure out how to make that happen.

 

[gephura]

Find an editor? I finished it in one read too. I'm sure people would want this published.

 

[ApostateAbe]

Find an editor? I finished it in one read too. I'm sure people would want this published.

I thought about putting it on a website, but, yeah, maybe it really is good enough to publish in paper. Maybe I should start sending it to publishers?

 

[NeverSayMyName]

I thought about putting it on a website, but, yeah, maybe it really is good enough to publish in paper. Maybe I should start sending it to publishers?

You definitely should. It deserves it!
I'm sure there are publishers out there who will appreciate it.

I read most of it in one go, and it was a really valuable lesson for me, even though I didn't completely agree with everything.

 

[gephura]

I thought about putting it on a website, but, yeah, maybe it really is good enough to publish in paper. Maybe I should start sending it to publishers?

You should however be prepared that they will probably ask you to make it a bit shorter. Would you be willing to do that? Or do you think it should be exactly as he wrote it?

 

[onthewindowstand]

I DIDN'T KNOW

Sometimes when someone is really demented they become unaware that they are demented. I just had to let you know.

 

[ApostateAbe]

You should however be prepared that they will probably ask you to make it a bit shorter. Would you be willing to do that? Or do you think it should be exactly as he wrote it?

Shortening it wouldn't be much of an issue. A much bigger issue, on the slim chance it gets that far, would be the editing intended to make it less offensive or less uncomfortable.

 

[socialexpat]

An ever ongoing debate and topic for many people.
At some point you could have saved his life and at the same point he would have agreed and re-attempt it from zero on another day, time, place, manner .. ?
I'm sure you are shocked, not exactly because of this person his choice to end it.
I think you are rather shocked because you have seen a person sitting on a place where it is not appropriate and apparently because you found yourself to be confronted with the remains of this person after the crash / suicide / accident.
Go to councelling and accept that you where a witness of a suicide, which happens every so many minutes in the world.
People die LPolarlight, gives you credit enough to find what you can make of life.

 

[Oblivious]

Clayton has competition! I figure I should likewise put Clayton's book on a website in proper formatting. Maybe that is what I'll do this winter break.

Just came across this thread, and this book of yours has really piqued my interest.

Unfortunately, the link seems to be broken for me. I wonder if anyone could send me a copy.