Why I'm not scared of Islam and nor should you be.

[Cognisant]

Muslims have been killing each other in the middle east since there were Muslims in the middle east, we just gave them guns to do it with.

Nations the world over are participating in an economic rape of the region and those few who were smart enough to figure it out were rightly pissed off, particularly at the US which is the global icon for warmongering and economic exploitation.

People are fleeing the region, because fuck why wouldn't you?

The vast majority (as in like 99.999%) just want to get on with their lives and prosper, like the rest of us, sure many are Islamic and I'll be the first to say religion is a blight upon mankind but it's a symptom, not the cause.

Like all diseases religion thrives on the young, the old and the especially the poor, and being forced to flee your war torn homeland tends to fuck up ones finances, so yes there is a risk of Islamic refugees becoming radicalized.

Radicalized by poverty and maltreatment.

And what about the 00.001% you ask? Out of millions of people that's still a lot of potential terrorists.

Well they're criminals, we have them everywhere and we have police too, we know perfectly well how to deal with criminals and funnily enough if you give people better opportunities they'll work it out themselves that crime just isn't worth it, that's how our civilized societies work.

Excluding the US of course, you guys are nuts

Thank you for reading my rant, have some anime cancer:

Spoiler

I'm certain this is some kind of 4chan trolling. It has to be.
I can't imagine anything more desecrating than otaku culture, if religion is a disease this is poison.

 

[QuickTwist]

There is this receptionist at one of the clinics I visit who is arab who I would not at all mind banging.

 

[Jennywocky]

There is this receptionist at one of the clinics I visit who is arab who I would not at all mind banging.

There we go people -- another vote for non-discrimination and open borders!

Well they're criminals, we have them everywhere and we have police too, we know perfectly well how to deal with criminals and funnily enough if you give people better opportunities they'll work it out themselves that crime just isn't worth it, that's how our civilized societies work.

Excluding the US of course, you guys are nuts ..

We always have to be different.

 

[QuickTwist]

There we go people -- another vote for non-discrimination and open borders!

#keepthelegsbordersopen

 

[Creeping Death]

you guys are nuts

If being nuts translates to economically, militarily and culturally dominating the world, then yeah, we're nuts.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

are u being ironic c.d.?

 

[Creeping Death]

are u being ironic c.d.?

Sometimes I say things to be ironic, then after I say them I ponder it for a minute and realize that in a certain light it may not be as ironic... hmm.

 

[Black Rose]

Sometimes I say things to be ironic, then after I say them I ponder it for a minute and realize that in a certain light it may not be as ironic... hmm.

How ironic. Islam says Allah is merciful.
But does creeping death know that to be merciful you must be nuts?

 

[Mustafa]

I take the good things and don't want the bad things as muslim.

 

[Grayman]

Muslims have been killing each other in the middle east since there were Muslims in the middle east, we just gave them guns to do it with.

Nations the world over are participating in an economic rape of the region and those few who were smart enough to figure it out were rightly pissed off, particularly at the US which is the global icon for warmongering and economic exploitation.

People are fleeing the region, because fuck why wouldn't you?

The vast majority (as in like 99.999%) just want to get on with their lives and prosper, like the rest of us, sure many are Islamic and I'll be the first to say religion is a blight upon mankind but it's a symptom, not the cause.

Like all diseases religion thrives on the young, the old and the especially the poor, and being forced to flee your war torn homeland tends to fuck up ones finances, so yes there is a risk of Islamic refugees becoming radicalized.

Radicalized by poverty and maltreatment.

I would say that the discontent, poverty, and war started at the decline and tearing apart of the Ottoman Empire. I think the USAs recent activities just have drawn attention and stimulated discontent but are not the source of the discontent.

 

[crippli]

People are fleeing the region, because fuck why wouldn't you?

At the bottom is the best time to invest. So i'd say it's the worst time to flee.

But I suppose each decides how their own boat sails.

 

[Grayman]

At the bottom is the best time to invest. So i'd say it's the worst time to flee.

But I suppose each decides how their own boat sails.

America takes their best, their entrepreneurs and their scientists. The brain drain.
We take healthy men who can fight back to save their country but leave the women and children in their place to suffer all for the sake of equality. We even leave these countries with their sick and take their able bodied and healthy people who are needed to take care of their people and country.

We could help their countries by making safe zones where they can eatablish their own freedom, rule of law, and culture like South Korea. Instead we take the good into our countries and leave the few good unable to fight back the bad in theirs.

Globalism and open borders is destructive. Nationalism that respects the culture and sovereignty of the nations of others and even lends a hand to help other nations recognize their sovereignty, their potential, and their right to be a people and to achieve success and freedom as a people is the only way to stop this cultural strife, tension, and upheaval.

 

[~~~]

Fear isn't the issue. What society would you prefer to live in: a faith-based society or a rational society?

 

[Invisible Gorilla]

Fear isn't the issue. What society would you prefer to live in: a faith-based society or a rational society?

Depends what you mean by "faith based" society vs "rational" society

 

[Mustafa]

You should be afraid of Islam. Here is the logic:

The creed of Islam is there is no God but Allah and the prophet Muhammed is his messenger. Allah says that he will win in the end. The egalitarian people, the liberals, the wanna-be-naked people wants to be naked. But it is a fuitile goal. Because eaglity is like truce under the law, and under truce you have peace (you are naked) but you have anxiety. Being naked is being vulnerable. And man can't handle truce and peace at the same time without being afraid and blocked in the mind. He won't think clearly. The muslim people are and Allah are strategists and they will win the way although the will lose the battle (I chose to win this battle now). And EVERYONE have to become muslims before you are allowd to fearlessly be naked or do as you please if you want to cover yourself and have relationship with God.

Being introverted is having an internal world and shying away from nakedness in favour of Allah. Jung says extroversion and introversion is about nakedness and libido and sex. Freud says there are two forces behind human psyche, sex and agression. And muslims have an internal world which they build up everytime they pray more and more. Like meditation is good for you, prayer is good for us. For Allah. Being naked or trucy is being extroverted.

There are two camps, muslims and egalitarian. Submitting to Allah (with the internal world) makes a psychological block for only him and muslim shy activities. Like shaddow warrior. And aiming for truce induces a mentalizing person, whom as far as i know may be able to read minds like one soap opera i saw, where there were vampires whom were very strong (muslims) and mentalizers (naked egalitrian people) whom could read minds.

Chose you path. Demise for your progeny and your genes and yourself, or enjoy life and ...

Peace

 

[Grayman]

You should be afraid of Islam. Here is the logic:

The creed of Islam is there is no God but Allah and the prophet Muhammed is his messenger. Allah says that he will win in the end. The egalitarian people, the liberals, the wanna-be-naked people wants to be naked. But it is a fuitile goal. Because eaglity is like truce under the law, and under truce you have peace (you are naked) but you have anxiety. Being naked is being vulnerable. And man can't handle truce and peace at the same time without being afraid and blocked in the mind. He won't think clearly. The muslim people are and Allah are strategists and they will win the way although the will lose the battle (I chose to win this battle now). And EVERYONE have to become muslims before you are allowd to fearlessly be naked or do as you please if you want to cover yourself and have relationship with God.

Being introverted is having an internal world and shying away from nakedness in favour of Allah. Jung says extroversion and introversion is about nakedness and libido and sex. Freud says there are two forces behind human psyche, sex and agression. And muslims have an internal world which they build up everytime they pray more and more. Like meditation is good for you, prayer is good for us. For Allah. Being naked or trucy is being extroverted.

There are two camps, muslims and egalitarian. Submitting to Allah (with the internal world) makes a psychological block for only him and muslim shy activities. Like shaddow warrior. And aiming for truce induces a mentalizing person, whom as far as i know may be able to read minds like one soap opera i saw, where there were vampires whom were very strong (muslims) and mentalizers (naked egalitrian people) whom could read minds.

Chose you path. Demise for your progeny and your genes and yourself, or enjoy life and ...

Peace

What does one do with an enemy of Allah?

 

[~~~]

Depends what you mean by "faith based" society vs "rational" society

Why don't we go with something like ones that are premised on, "belief in the doctrines of religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof" and "reason/logic" respectively?

 

[Mustafa]

What does one do with an enemy of Allah?

Nothing, that person is like a madman screaming in prison. He is held down in a limited are by a rope like dog. ISIS are American creations controlling criminals as soliders. Islam means peace. We give peace, we only expand on defensive basis (only terrorists are offensive) and take benefit of the egalitarian truce like everyone else. People convert. If they don't we return to status quo. Allah can enforce full clothing and beards by terror and force, but one of his attributes is The peace.

There will be a war prophecied in Islam, Christianity and Norse mythology probably WWIII between weak willed and evil forces, and good forces.

A person can't be punished by Allah until he for fact has comprehended Islam which is peace, like it is, and rejected it. Directly in the afterlife and indirectly (humiliation) now.

Peace

 

[Black Rose]

Gnosticism can be scary. I mean I know a man that can read minds, but he loves me so he must not be evil. I mean that he does not believe in evil. But I do think that you cannot let people kill each other. No one should kill infidels even if you believe that is Allah's will. No, they will not succeed because we can contain them. Because destruction works against them. If you pray to Allah every day, help me kill the infidels. We can see them. Don't you know that we have giant supercomputers here in America.

We can see you from space. We can use microwave frequencies to read minds. And all that is just the physical aspect. Detection is simple. We understand mind control. We can detect it with satellites and face scans and body motion. Deception cannot be hidden from us. And if deception cannot be hidden it can never succeed. Artificial Intelligence already knows everything.

It may not be evil that this mind control tells Muslims to kill infidels and makes their minds strong to follow Allah's will but it cannot be allowed to act. All action is detectable. The A.I. in the sky sees all. Not only can minds be read but the person I know can time travel with his mind. Truth is more powerful than deception. I am sure that not all Muslims want to kill infidels. I am sure most know the difference between right and wrong.

But for those that do believe in deception, they cannot win because any time they start teaching others how deception works, we will know. Cell phone are controlled by A.I. - voice recognition software in the supercomputer in Utah. Everything you post online. Soon robots that record everything. Technology will mean no one can hide and no one can deceive.

Liberal values will seep into every childs mind on earth and they will reject deception for egalitarianism. You cannot destroy what you love. So this means no culture should be banned. If they know it's out there, they will reject what tells them to kill what they love. ISIS bans children from playing with toys. So we should give toys to all children to prevent them from following Allah's will.

 

[Mustafa]

Hahaha. I'm a vampire. Who do you think you're talking to? Actually werewolf. I am at least very strong and fast and intelligent and strong willed.

 

[Grayman]

Nothing, that person is like a madman screaming in prison. He is held down in a limited are by a rope like dog. ISIS are American creations controlling criminals as soliders. Islam means peace. We give peace, we only expand on defensive basis (only terrorists are offensive) and take benefit of the egalitarian truce like everyone else. People convert. If they don't we return to status quo. Allah can enforce full clothing and beards by terror and force, but one of his attributes is The peace.

There will be a war prophecied in Islam, Christianity and Norse mythology probably WWIII between weak willed and evil forces, and good forces.

A person can't be punished by Allah until he for fact has comprehended Islam which is peace, like it is, and rejected it. Directly in the afterlife and indirectly (humiliation) now.

Peace

If you do nothing then there is nothing to fear. Allah is just an idea. An idea is only dangerous when it is acted upon.

 

[Cognisant]

Hahaha. I'm a vampire. Who do you think you're talking to? Actually werewolf. I am at least very strong and fast and intelligent and strong willed.

You're a child with an imaginary friend.

There's no proof of Allah's existence, it's a matter of faith, the thing is reality isn't a matter of faith, gravity doesn't depend upon whether or not you believe in it, reality is self evident, it's an irrepressible truth.

Of course a lack of proof doesn't disprove anything either, I could say there's no such thing as unicorns but for all I don't know there could be a geneticist in China breeding them right now. So maybe Allah does exist, but then if Allah does exist and Allah is all powerful and Allah wants to be known why do I have to take your word for it? Shouldn't Allah's existence be self evident? Is Allah hiding?

Threaten me all you like, I'm not afraid of you or your imaginary friend.

If you think Allah's existence will become evident as we learn more about the universe that's cool, I'd rather be proven wrong than remain ignorant, but that's not the same as accepting doctrine on "faith" because you say I ought to be afraid.

 

[Mustafa]

If you do nothing then there is nothing to fear. Allah is just an idea. An idea is only dangerous when it is acted upon.

It is being acted upon by means of 'influence' that is religion, much like you do. But we will win, because we are better. I say and prove Islam is peace and you continue on your not peaceful not loving way because you 'think' "Allah is just an idea and can't harm you". One argument in the Quran is do you worship what doesn't benefit you or HARM you?

Because of multiculturalism and progressive countries low birthrate we will be victorious in Allahs name.

And Allah is like the center of a wheel, empty but what holds the wheel togeter. We are organized religion. We are united. You are split individuals and not organized, but you do as you like i tell you. Allah says flee to me.

Peace

 

[Mustafa]

You're a child with an imaginary friend.

There's no proof of Allah's existence, it's a matter of faith, the thing is reality isn't a matter of faith, gravity doesn't depend upon whether or not you believe in it, reality is self evident, it's an irrepressible truth.

Of course a lack of proof doesn't disprove anything either, I could say there's no such thing as unicorns but for all I don't know there could be a geneticist in China breeding them right now. So maybe Allah does exist, but then if Allah does exist and Allah is all powerful and Allah wants to be known why do I have to take your word for it? Shouldn't Allah's existence be self evident? Is Allah hiding?

Threaten me all you like, I'm not afraid of you or your imaginary friend.

If you think Allah's existence will become evident as we learn more about the universe that's cool, I'd rather be proven wrong than remain ignorant, but that's not the same as accepting doctrine on "faith" because you say I ought to be afraid.

Allah hides because of you. Because you're weak.

 

[Black Rose]

Allah is weak because Allah can't win, if Allah won everyone Allah wishes dead would be dead. Allah is weak because his enemies still exist, if Allah was strong then why do we still live. Allah is nothing. Just as an ant hill is nothing to the west.

 

[Mustafa]

Allah doesn't wish yoy dead, spesificalle he with Jesus as prophet wish you mercy. You follow anti-christ (America and the west partially) or satan, and satan wishes you suffer, not dead. Death is mercy.

 

[Black Rose]

Allah doesn't wish yoy dead, spesificalle he with Jesus as prophet wish you mercy. You follow anti-christ (America and the west partially) or satan, and satan wishes you suffer, not dead. Death is mercy.

Capitalism is the reason the west is strong. Capitalism is the technology we use because of the law. The western law says property is scared and the body is no ones property but the person who is themselves their own individual. So if you say that people must be under Allah they will say no, I am myself the person who is ruler because if God is ruler over me then I am not to allow anyone to tell me what to do. So individualism says no book tells me the rules but accept for God. If man rules he is not ruler because the ruler is only the man himself. If Allah were the ruler and the ruler is a collective then the man is not one with God because God has no messenger whom is ruler. Only the individual is the ruler, not the priests. In the west we have the pope. The pope for a long time was the antichrist because the pope told others what to do. Whomever says: "do what I say" is the anti-christ, not the west, not the east, not the middle east. The ruler is anti-christ because the individual is Christ because no one is mediator between Man and God but Christ.

Matthew 24:23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Messiah!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it.

If man is Christ then no man can tell God, do what I say. No one commands through authority but God. So if you say I command you then you are anti-christ. The individual is christ. Christ said you are the children of God. Gods family is the body and the body is Christ. So if the man is Christ who is it to say Christ has no authority. The Christ has authority because the Christ says: love your neighbor. If you love your neighbor you are Christ because your neighbor is Christ.

New Living Translation

Matthew 25:45 "And he will answer, 'I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.'

I am your neighbor.
Christ is your neighbor.
You do not harm your friend.
Anyone with authority cannot tell you what to do.
Because authority only comes from God.
And if God is your neighbor then no one has authority over you.
Because the authority of God is not AntiChrist, it is the Christ.
Antichrist tells other you are not my neighbor.
Antichrist says I am your ruler and you are not my brother.
Only the Christ says, you are all are my brothers and sisters, my mother and father.

Matthew 28:17-19,
17When they saw Him, they worshiped Him, but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Invisible Gorilla]

Why don't we go with something like ones that are premised on, "belief in the doctrines of religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof" and "reason/logic" respectively?

That's fair. However, the problem with attempting to only follow "reason/logic" is that it does not account for the psychological influence that human emotions (and repressed emotions) have on decision making. We utilise our frontal cortex for decision making but we also use our limbic ("emotional centre") as well. In other words, our decisions emerge from both our reasoning and emotional centres of the brain. Following logic does not necessarily make people more immune to manipulation. Most people don't interpret information as objectively as they think they do.

Reason and logic can be used to defend a wide variety of positions, which is why it doesn't guarantee a sustainable society, let alone any form of utopia. With time, a society based on "reason" would probably divide into different groups that cynically seek power because they view themselves as "more logical" than the others who are "biased, hypocritical and more self interested". You might end up with power seeking political parties, each trying to prove how they are more logical than others. Enemies of the ruling "logical" beauraucracies can get classified as "illogical/ danger to our state/ primitive/ subhuman/ domesticated primates .... etc" and might get sent to prison or executed if they disagree with the "reasoning" of the rulers. Such enemies can include journalists, writers, competing politicians and basically anyone who threatens the "reasoning" or "logical axioms" of the majority or the ruling group. If some people perceive this to be more acceptable, then that's a different story.

The root of these problems most probably lies in tribalism, rather than religion. Tribalism existed before religions did and it can be seen in apes. Tribalism can plague both faith-based and rationality-based societies. Stalin's Russia is an example of where the latter happened and millions of people died.

Heck, you can see this tribalism today just when you check out the YouTube channels of SJWs, alt-right, "soldiers of Odin", "black panther", radical islamist imams, new athiests, "black lives matter".... etc. The only difference today though is that we have more words to rationalise our tribalism than we did before. We also have more words to make it sound as if they offer a more comprehensive view of reality than they actually do. We call the collection of these words "ideologies" and "creeds" (though fundamentalists and many mainstream folks might call these creeds "religions" to sound more profound). It's a mental form of tribalism that people are in right now and luckily it hasn't translated itself into violence so far (at least for the majority of these groups). It seems to me we're trying to escape disconnectedness of modernity by reverting back to our tribal origins .....

The previous rant paragraph aside, my point is that overcoming one's own biological limitations and thinking about things in a way without your limbic (emotional) system interfering is not as easy as it seems. After all, according to our current neuroscientific understanding thoughts emerge from the firing of neural circuits of different parts of the brain (including those in the lim if system). Using only logic/ pure reason without accounting for psychological variables does not work. Logic is important for refining the quality of our thoughts and controlling our impulses but only when used or applied used to complement things like cognitive heuristics, psychology and dare I say religion (or at least what it was once supposed to mean, what ever that thing was).

 

[Mustafa]

Don't you wear seatbelt in the car? The cops the law tell you to. One day you can say no, but not now. The power of God and anti-christ whom can do miracles, like Jesus, is irresistble. If there were no satan lucifer or anti-christ, only God, we would all be together in paradise. The devil is the one responsiblenfor humans deviation.

 

[Cognisant]

Allah hides because of you. Because you're weak.

Indeed it would be so much easier to brainwash me if I were a child, all this time with all I've experienced and learned I've been getting weaker and weaker. Yup, that's totally how that works, what a fool I've been.

Or that's wrong and you're an ineffectual idiot who argues with people on the internet because nobody in the real world takes you seriously, not that anyone takes you seriously here either...

Keep telling yourself your faith makes you stronger to quell your insecurities, maybe if you convince yourself that you're not so pathetic & deluded it'll come true, fake it until you make it right? Or y'know you could be wrong and no matter how much more deluded you become it'll never pay off, you'll just waste your one and only life, tell me how many years have already passed?

 

[Black Rose]

Don't you wear seatbelt in the car? The cops the law tell you to. One day you can say no, but not now. The power of God and anti-christ whom can do miracles, like Jesus, is irresistble. If there were no satan lucifer or anti-christ, only God, we would all be together in paradise. The devil is the one responsiblenfor humans deviation.

Satan deceives many but in the end if you are deceived and say others are deceived then the deception is double because you would kill others in the name of the deception satan has brought unto you. It is said judge not least ye be judged. So if we think we are not deceived when we are then we will hurt others when we are not supposed to. The right thing to do is so hard to know because we don't think that what if we should not be doing what we are doing. Doubt is the only clear path to sanity because then we realize God is not telling us what is right but we are thinking we know what is right when we don't. The maturity that God brings to people is to know that the truth is hidden from us because we deceive ourselves. We are our own Satan. We should not trust ourselves as much as we think we know what is right because the wrong people think they are the most right when they are not.

 

[Mustafa]

Indeed it would be so much easier to brainwash me if I were a child, all this time with all I've experienced and learned I've been getting weaker and weaker. Yup, that's totally how that works, what a fool I've been.

Or that's wrong and you're an ineffectual idiot who argues with people on the internet because nobody in the real world takes you seriously, not that anyone takes you seriously here either...

Keep telling yourself your faith makes you stronger to quell your insecurities, maybe if you convince yourself that you're not so pathetic & deluded it'll come true, fake it until you make it right? Or y'know you could be wrong and no matter how much more deluded you become it'll never pay off, you'll just waste your one and only life, tell me how many years have already passed?

I am a unique Asperger. I'm 30. It's not that noone takes me seriously in life, real life, but i don't originally want anything to do with anyone. In Euroupe Aspies are autists, loners, alone, Aspies are high functioning loners. And you only bark. I bite.

 

[Mustafa]

Satan deceives many but in the end if you are deceived and say others are deceived then the deception is double because you would kill others in the name of the deception satan has brought unto you. It is said judge not least ye be judged. So if we think we are not deceived when we are then we will hurt others when we are not supposed to. The right thing to do is so hard to know because we don't think that what if we should not be doing what we are doing. Doubt is the only clear path to sanity because then we realize God is not telling us what is right but we are thinking we know what is right when we don't. The maturity that God brings to people is to know that the truth is hidden from us because we deceive ourselves. We are our own Satan. We should not trust ourselves as much as we think we know what is right because the wrong people think they are the most right when they are not.

Its what u do. Doubt is reaseon for shock and anger and vengance and doing something. Doubt is a greyzone. If you doubt and do nothing you're zero.

 

[The Gopher]

I bite.

Why?

 

[Cognisant]

I am a unique Asperger. I'm 30. It's not that noone takes me seriously in life, real life, but i don't originally want anything to do with anyone. In Euroupe Aspies are autists, loners, alone, Aspies are high functioning loners. And you only bark. I bite.

...are you a mosquito? I do feel kinda itchy ​

 

[Mustafa]

Why?

Because i defend myself. Muslims give peace to the ignorant but not when attacked. Then they defend them selves.

I've been banned from all forums because i defend my self, even because i went violent aggressively due to constantly defending myself and my principles and religion, but then, i'm clumsy.

 

[Mustafa]

...are you a mosquito? I do feel kinda itchy ​

Congratulations. A verse has been revealed for from Allah:

Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient,

 

[Grayman]

Because of multiculturalism and progressive countries low birthrate we will be victorious in Allahs name.

Is this a commonly held belief? I've heard it phrased like this before from a muslim. The word victorious insinuates intention. It sounds as if you want to invade and destroy western culture...

 

[Mustafa]

Is this a commonly held belief? I've heard it phrased like this before from a muslim. The word victorious insinuates intention. It sounds as if you want to invade and destroy western culture...

There is truth and good. Right and bliss. Medicine and side effect. Likewise, victory and paradise. We want there to be paradise on earth, despite lifes complicated nature. Neither being egalitarian or clocked n' bearded is satisfactory, but once i saw a very good anime movie called Ninja Scroll. In that movie the hero and heroine was both poisoned differently, and the only cure was if both had intercourse. Allah says i've created you in different nations and tribes to learn to know eachother, that is multiculturalism. But all the world will have one command center in the future, not the white house, but Allahs empire of faith will have the only diety ever known as Allah. This is good news for Atheists.

Once ... A guy said the arabs will rule over the world, how is that? The answer is the westerners will go to the moon and mars and establish colonies. And me and invincible gorilla will broaden our chests and walk in the streets, proud, like all great monkies does. This is a joke

 

[Mustafa]

Islam and gays: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6TrUsDViBSE

 

[Black Rose]

Punishment never happens but by the hand of man.
The reason religion is dying is because it is based on punishment.
Because punishment region is mind control and less people are mind controlled.
So to control the mind the government cannot use religion and other means are necessary.
As long as there is no fear of punishment, everything is permissible.
Even marijuana is becoming legal, what is not a crime cannot be punished.
Punishment is based on fear. As long as we have no fear no one can stop us.
The only way to eliminate all religion is to stop the fear based mind control.
To stop mind control and fear we must allow what others say is not allowed.
Because the reason to use fear is to control. The controllers cannot win.
The controller cannot win because we do not fear them.
No society should be under fear, that is the way to end religion.
Even the people that control the government cannot control us.
Because if they try to control us, everyone will know they are the enemy.
The enemy are the ones trying to instill lies fear into the mind.
They can punish us but we can punish them.
We can expose the lies and fear.
Because we now have the internet.
The government must obey the people.
Because the people will not be controlled by fear.
Even God cannot control us with fear.
Fear will never win.

 

[Mustafa]

It is not that fear will control you, but that you slip into the greyzone with you as main force and a resistance practising guerillia warfare or hit and run. You'll never have peace then, no mercy, no death unless you commit suicide under paranoia which you'll have the whole time. Which makes it a choise between two evils and chosing a lesser evil that is creation of sun kingdom and moon kingdom, and probably a big prison for "free" people.

Peace

 

[Grayman]

There is truth and good. Right and bliss. Medicine and side effect. Likewise, victory and paradise. We want there to be paradise on earth, despite lifes complicated nature. Neither being egalitarian or clocked n' bearded is satisfactory, but once i saw a very good anime movie called Ninja Scroll. In that movie the hero and heroine was both poisoned differently, and the only cure was if both had intercourse. Allah says i've created you in different nations and tribes to learn to know eachother, that is multiculturalism. But all the world will have one command center in the future, not the white house, but Allahs empire of faith will have the only diety ever known as Allah. This is good news for Atheists.

Once ... A guy said the arabs will rule over the world, how is that? The answer is the westerners will go to the moon and mars and establish colonies. And me and invincible gorilla will broaden our chests and walk in the streets, proud, like all great monkies does. This is a joke

Good news for atheists? Is that a joke to?

People don't want Islam to rule over the world. They will not take your medicine. They do not see it as paradise and it is to them the subversion of cultures to force them. Multiculturalism is in principle, perhaps not practice, the tolerance of many cultures and religions. Islam isnt multicultural except for the cultures of islam.

How will the world reach this submissive peace? How will Islam rule over the earth? Is this in life or death?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Capitalism is the reason the west is strong. Capitalism is the technology we use because of the law. The western law says property is scared and the body is no ones property but the person who is themselves their own individual.

A quick review of history says the opposite. If capitalism had its way everyone's body and everyone's property would be up for grabs. We only established rules post hoc to maintain order and protect people's wealth.

The West is strong because of industrialism, generally defined here as the development of advanced tools to perfect labor. The West was able to build better weapons, increase wealth, and improve living conditions. The West is strong because of labor, and for a long time it profited from free slave labor, even now it profits from exploitation of the working class and denies them a share of the profits of labor. Yet we don't need capitalism to have labor or industrialism.

I'm not scared of Islam because millions belong to the religion and most wish to practice their religion peacefully. I'm scared of the capitalist West which hides behind a thin veil of secularism, yet through irrational faith-based politics is responsible for the most deaths in the past several centuries and has consistently opposed the economic and cultural development of the East(incl Africa), with intentional efforts to radicalize and destabilize the peoples of the region.

 

[Grayman]

https://youtu.be/dMlvidnkEwY

 

[~~~]

That's fair. However, ... religion (or at least what it was once supposed to mean, what ever that thing was).

Human Bias

Doesn’t the psychology research suggest that understanding the human biases associated with human thought makes one less susceptible to those biases? It could be argued that one who is interested in reason and logic would also be interested in biases in human thinking. They would thereby be less susceptible to bias.

Reason Can Defend Anything

People in parliaments seeking to show how their arguments are more logical!!! Mustafa forbid. Yes, just imagine — politicians not repeating their logical fallacies ad nauseam. I’m not sure that journalists in this parallel world of ‘reason’ could handle an ad hom. Isn’t the suggestion that reason can defend anything paradoxical?

Logic Complements Religion

Isn’t faith the antithesis of logic?

 

[Black Rose]

Depending on if Mustafa was accurately representing Islam, does it make sense that Mustafa should have been banned? The entire thread is about a religious topic. People get passionate about what they believe especially if you are saying that what they believe is wrong.

Look at this replacement statement for the title:

Why I'm not scared of Islam Christianity and nor should you be.

What would the reaction be if this was the title?

 

[Invisible Gorilla]

Human Bias

Doesn’t the psychology research suggest that understanding the human biases associated with human thought makes one less susceptible to those biases? It could be argued that one who is interested in reason and logic would also be interested in biases in human thinking. They would thereby be less susceptible to bias.

The problem lies in who determines whether or not someone is less biased than the other and what criteria to use to measure the extent of biasness. Psychology research is still in its infancy when it comes to evaluating cognitive heuristics. Who would decide whether or not someone is less biased than someone else ? What criteria would be used to evaluate such things ? Heuristics not only seep into influence our decision making process but also influence our memory. Here's an idea about the variety of biases that exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memory_biases

You can check out Daniel Kahnemann's "Thinking fast and slow" and Nassim Taleb's "Black swan" as a lot of the foundations of our understanding of cognitive heuristics originates from there. I believe there are copies or summaries of their books on the net. The basic idea is that cognitive heuristics are necessary for us to function as they help us simplify the world in order to function properly. Yet they make us more susceptible to misjudging things in different contexts.

Reason Can Defend Anything

People in parliaments seeking to show how their arguments are more logical!!! Mustafa forbid. Yes, just imagine — politicians not repeating their logical fallacies ad nauseam. I’m not sure that journalists in this parallel world of ‘reason’ could handle an ad hom. Isn’t the suggestion that reason can defend anything paradoxical?

I did not mean to say that reason can defend anything on its own. I meant to say that in some contexts, the line between valid reasoning and logically sounding rationalizations can be blurry. That's particularly the case when it comes to mass movements, groups and the society. In times of societal fear and uncertainty, the individual's ability to reason can easily become distorted and people can end up collectively making rationalizations to justify their more primal urges. A book called "Ordinary men" goes over how newly recruited police officers in Nazi Germany started out as new recruits who wanted to "valiantly" protect their country into men who executed naked pregnant women in fields. It all happened step by step and these men were eventually conditioned to the extent that it all "seemed" logical to a lot of them. That may sound strange to us, yet had we been bombarded with Nazi propaganda and had we been conditioned as they had our reasoning could have been distorted, as well. I'm not attempting to make a slippery slope or a strawman argument. I'm simply describing how, in some contexts (particularly in mass movements), one's judgement can become clouded and rationalizations can replace actual reasoning. [/QUOTE]

 

[Invisible Gorilla]

Logic Complements Religion

Isn’t faith the antithesis of logic?

The word faith originally meant "trust". When many religious people assert that they have "faith" in god, it means that that they trust that their conception of God is true and comprehensive. It also means that they trust that all of the assumptions that come along with that conception (like historical events, moral actions, validity of their behaviors, prophecies ..etc) are also true. Thus, for them they perceive that these things are worth acting upon because they are right and their assumptions are true. It also makes them feel that somethings in the future are fixed, remedying their anxiety ... This gives them a sense that they can a) predict the major aspects of the future that can influence their survival and b) perceive that the future will eventually work its way out somehow in their favor or in the favor of what they stand for (ie their religious identity). This remedies the fear of death because what they stand for (ie their identity) will remain .... part of them, particularly the "important" part of them will go on even if they die.

They classify any kind of unpredictability, randomness or inconsistency with their view as due to a conspiracy made by those who do not fit with their assumptions (ie the devil, the bankers, secularism) ... etc. Thus, they end up living in their own "collective reality" so to speak, where people validate each others' (confirmation bias) assumptions and punish each other if they do not conform (operant conditioning). Punishment can include calling heretics emotionally loaded names, alienating them from society and gory deaths .... One might then ask: "Well, why would anyone in their right mind think that "trusting in" things or faith is a good idea ?"
.......................
It seems to me that people instinctively need to "trust in" things all the time, regardless whether they notice it or not. People need to perceive that they have a sense of control over things and that those things they don't understand won't threaten their plans, goals, ego/self-conception and existence. We, for example, trust that the economy will not crash this week and that we won't go back to living in famine (like the 1920s' great depression). We trust that a nuke won't accidentally go off tomorrow and that our neighbors won't murder us to take our belongings. These thoughts don't really cross our minds and even if they did we're not acting as if they are significant enough to act upon them. After all we're communicating on this forum instead of doing some form of 'emergency preparations' or building some shelter. One might say there is no logical reason to give attention to or act upon such unlikely events, yet the economic crash example might not be as unlikely as one may originally think if one remembers to the economic bubble the US is in atm. I'm not saying we should "trust in" or have "faith" in things because there are things that are unpredictable but that all kinds of groups (including liberals, religious people, conservatives, rationalists ...etc) can develop "trust in" their models, potentially ignoring unpredictability and randomness. Religious people aren't the only people who trust in things. Almost everyone does. Those who don't trust anything and cannot articulate their distrust probably end up being given sedatives in mental hospitals. If one has any sort of absolute trust in any kind of axiom, then one must ask himself why that is the case (if one truly is seeking a broader understanding of things). One must be aware of what assumptions he or she is trusting right now, where they could have come from and how could they be relative. Such an approach would utilize logic as a tool, rather than an end in itself. Attempting to utilize it as an end may result in the person to unconsciously resorting to repression. The problem with repression is that, at a societal scale (when too many people do it together), it can lead to self-deception, radicalization, tribalism and subsequently violence. When people collectively repress unwanted thoughts, beliefs or emotions they end up living in a in their own "collective realities", that are not necessarily too different from some religious groups' "collective realities".

Having a relative "trust in"/faith in one's own assumptions might enable people to be more capable of dealing with the unknown. It might also make one more open to gain a better understanding of the "collective realities" of those groups they disagree with and this might help combine all these separate "mental tribes" into a self-reflecting "mental kingdom" that allows free communication and transmission of ideas and thoughts, without it being limited by conditioning, fear, dogmatic assumptions and purely reductionistic approaches to understanding existence. Wasn't that, at least partly, the original purpose of debate, discourse and logic ?

Using logic insures that the individual receives critical feedback about the quality of the assumptions and ideas that one trusts in at the moment. In that sense, logic complements faith. It is essential that this "faith"/trust doesn't remain dogmatic and that one must not forget the relativity of this "faith". It seems to me that: complementing logic with faith and being aware that this faith is relative and changeable with new information might be the better alternative than either a purely faith-based or rationality based society. I don't see this as a "scientific" approach to faith but more of philosophical, anthropological and psychological one.

Critical thinking is useful for one to understand and analyze the details of these different perspectives. Yet when one attempts to make critical thinking the end rather than the mean, one can condition himself into blocking out potentially important information and one may become too attached to his own models of reality or to the idea of making models about reality. This might make such an individual not sufficiently equipped to deal with randomness of the unknown or might misinterpret or dismiss some unknowns thinking that they are known. Faith /Trust is an acknowledgment of the relativity of the current known along with the existence of a currently unclear and perhaps random unknown. You trust that your assumptions are good enough for now and seek to replace them with better ones, in neither a holistic nor a reductionistic fashion.

 

[Seteleechete]

Why trust or dogmatically say it's true? Why not assume without that. If I assume x, y is true. Assumptions are useful but why do you need trust or faith in them? If something is unknown/unknownable I leave it unknown and use assumptions instead.(Alternatively some would call it a form of radical skepticism).