Why are forums dead?

[SteppeWanderer]

I was just wondering why forums are dead, I quite like them, but it seems like only discord is used to chat or communicate with people on the internet anymore, but it’s not the same since it’s in real time and in the moment you can’t have the same types of discussions and stay on topic as easily.

What caused this why did it suddenly happen? It’s quite stark and noticeable it’s like all the forums on the internet are just dead.

 

[Puffy]

People use Reddit now instead. That’s active and it serves the same purpose of thread based discussion.

 

[scorpiomover]

I was just wondering why forums are dead, I quite like them, but it seems like only discord is used to chat or communicate with people on the internet anymore, but it’s not the same since it’s in real time and in the moment you can’t have the same types of discussions and stay on topic as easily.

What caused this why did it suddenly happen? It’s quite stark and noticeable it’s like all the forums on the internet are just dead.

They became political pulpits. When people started outing racists, sexists & homophobes based on what they were posting on the internet, they then started "cancelling" companies who employed those posters. So then businesses would lose a lot of money by employing people that posted content that lots of people on the internet disapproved of. So businesses started firing employees who made uppopular posts. So the more unpopular your posts, the less money you made.

But when it comes to discussing new ideas, you are exploring the unknown, to figure out what ideas to implement. You're still at the stage of looking at ALL ideas, to figure out which ideas will satisfy your values. So most of the ideas that you will discuss at length but end up rejecting, will be ideas that violate your values.

So when you have huge financial pressure not to even post about ideas that violate your values, it becomes very financially dangerous to have conversations about new ideas, as some of those ideas are likely to cause you problems.

So it becomes less and less worth it, to have conversations about new ideas. Eventually, the only things that are posted, are the things that are even less intellectually stimulating than small talk, like cute cat videos, or rants that conform to socially conventional popular values.

 

[scorpiomover]

People use Reddit now instead. That’s active and it serves the same purpose of thread based discussion.

Reddit is mostly quips. There's a few thoughtful posts. But not many.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Forums are for talkers, and thinkers.
Mostly talking thinkers.
People who need both of these things and get none of these things in real life.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Most people in my IRL life aren't good listeners.

I'll be damned if the people here aren't good listeners because they will have to navigate the walls of text I'm writing to determine if I'm saying anything relevant (:<

 

[dr froyd]

it's the same as with meme videos. Back in mid-2000s they used to be a couple of minutes long. Then they got progressively shorter, and at the current stage anything longer than 6 seconds becomes too slow of a stimulus. We're like rats repeatedly pressing a button to get an instant crumb of cheese, and we need it quicker and quicker. Anyone who stops to think, or writes anything more than 3 words + an emoji, doesn't live in the moment.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

People use Reddit now instead. That’s active and it serves the same purpose of thread based discussion.

Reddit is mostly quips. There's a few thoughtful posts. But not many.

 

[Puffy]

People use Reddit now instead. That’s active and it serves the same purpose of thread based discussion.

Reddit is mostly quips. There's a few thoughtful posts. But not many.

It depends on the community or subreddit tbh you can find thoughtful stuff there.

I’m not sure this forum is that different or more thoughtful really. The deepest we go is god threads of late and there’s plenty of that on Reddit.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Most people in my IRL life aren't good listeners.

Listening is easy, its also the understanding which defines good listening.
I can listen to people, but that does not lead to me necessarily understanding them.

It also depends, what level of thinking and knowing and understanding person is.

Thinking is ability to put data into some framework or action, abstract etc.

knowing means how much stuff you can match with reality.

Understanding is knowing how things relate with each other and how to make them relate to you or other people.

For instance lots of people understand politics only in relation to themselves. Very few people actually think of other people.
So if someone is pro something they are most likely relating it to something personal, not necessarily looking at how that thing can benefit others of their kind.

When it comes to listening it comes down to what people focus on and what bubble mentally they have constructed.
Most people don't really have capacity to leave the bubble mentally.
Not that leaving a bubble is prerequisite of better conversation, but it can be more interesting more novel and exploratory.

My experience then is that people hear what they have currently on mind + relating to what is being said.

Real listening is - not thinking, but listening what is being said.
- then understanding what is being said
- then thinking.

Most people do it in reverse, they think first then listen and then out comes something.

I also try to make less assumptions, but part of our functioning mind is it always makes assumptions in some capacity.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

My experience then is that people hear what they have currently on mind + relating to what is being said.

Real listening is - not thinking, but listening what is being said.
- then understanding what is being said
- then thinking.

Most people do it in reverse, they think first then listen and then out comes something.

I also try to make less assumptions, but part of our functioning mind is it always makes assumptions in some capacity.

Listening for me does encompasses most of what you wrote.

I would say most people are chronically stressed for a couple months out of the year, that's probably closer to the right of the distribution, but I wouldn't be surprised if even the average person had acute stressful scenarios 3 times a year.

Depending on the person such events can influence you for weeks or months if the event is traumatic enough.

I understand miscommunications as coming from stress 90% of the time.

It's hard to undo the hijacking that stress is, your brain literally isn't necessarily optimized to communicate in the "civil" and agreeable way that society says we should all adhere to.

I guess it's just as much that it's hard to communicate with stressed people as it is to be understood by them.

 

[scorpiomover]

People use Reddit now instead. That’s active and it serves the same purpose of thread based discussion.

Reddit is mostly quips. There's a few thoughtful posts. But not many.

This one clearly is not one of those thoughful posts. It's just a troll post.

Since G-d knows everything, G-d knows what we know. So everything we know is also part of what G-d knows. So of course we know things that G-d knows.

But there's an infinite number of relations that can be constructed. So knowledge is infinite. So G-d's knowledge is infinite, while ours is finite. Any finite number expressed as a fraction of infinity, is zero. However much we learn, it will still be almost nothing compared to what G-d knows.

So getting closer to G-d and ultimate knowledge, is a road, not a destination. It's the pursuit, not the achievement, that really defines our situation and what would indicate our most optimal choices.

1) Our temporary achievements that we reach along the way, that we have discovered long ago and forgotten about, can be useful today. So remember to look for modern-day problems by studying the past. You may discover that past humans had already come up with a very easy solution to modern-day catastrophes.

2) But keep moving forwards every so often, because the opposite is stagnation.

3) Remember to enjoy the journey, as it will last your entire life, as long as that is.

4) Don't worry about your lack of achievements in the moment. It's the long-term process that produces most great achievements.

The Reddit poster has interpreted "unknowable" as "knowing nothing" instead of "knowing that one knows almost nothing compared to how much there is to know."

A general observation I have found, is that the more a person learns about a subject, the more potential to learn they are now aware of, and consequently the tinier they perceive their level of knowledge to be, compared to how much that is out there. So paradoxically, the more educated you are, the more ignorant you feel.

Thus, the smartest people say that G-d is unfathomable. That's how they feel compared to their perception of the infinite capacity and infinite reality of G-d, because they have trained themselves to perceive that infinite level of capability and reality much better than most humans have.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

The Reddit poster has interpreted "unknowable" as "knowing nothing" instead of "knowing that one knows almost nothing compared to how much there is to know."

the only thing we can know about OOC is what we see

and if we reason

that OOC is truly all-powerful and all-knowing

then obviously

everything we see is the manifest will of OOC

 

[scorpiomover]

the only thing we can know about OOC is what we see

We cannot know anything from what we see. We experience too many auditory and visual illusions to consider our vision and hearing perfectly reliable. Sight and vision can be advisers and helpers to us. But we cannot allow them to be the arbiters of reality. If we did, then we would all immediately declare the Earth to be flat, and never change from that POV.

and if we reason

that OOC is truly all-powerful and all-knowing

then obviously

everything we see is the manifest will of OOC

Everything you see is the manifest will of G-d. But do you understand it?

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

we would all immediately declare the Earth to be flat

until we invented long range artillery or measured the progression of the sun or watched ships cross the horizon

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Everything you see is the manifest will of G-d. But do you understand it?

of course

obviously everything is of equal importance in the abstract

and only "meaningful" as it relates to individuals and groups of individuals

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

We cannot know anything from what we see.

this seems like a bit of an overstatement

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Thus, the smartest people say that NOUMENON is unfathomable. That's how they feel compared to their perception of the infinite capacity and infinite reality of NOUMENON, because they have trained themselves to perceive that infinite level of capability and reality much better than most humans have.

sure, call it whatever you want to call it

 

[scorpiomover]

sure, call it whatever you want to call it

I didn't say anything about noumenon.

 

[scorpiomover]

We cannot know anything from what we see.

this seems like a bit of an overstatement

We can estimate. But we cannot be certain. A big round yellowish fruit may be an orange, or it may be a grapefruit.

 

[scorpiomover]

Everything you see is the manifest will of G-d. But do you understand it?

of course

obviously everything is of equal importance in the abstract

and only "meaningful" as it relates to individuals and groups of individuals

I was asking if YOU understood EVERYTHING, all of human history, all of science, biology, everything you see and everything you know, as if it was examples of a Grand Unified Field Theory that you came up with. Does it all make sense to you?

 

[scorpiomover]

we would all immediately declare the Earth to be flat

until we invented long range artillery or measured the progression of the sun or watched ships cross the horizon

If we just accepted what we saw and heard, we would never have tried to do anything like that.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

If we just accepted what we saw and heard, we would never have tried to do anything like that.

we absorb somewhat noisy sensory data

and we test it

and think about it

and test it again

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I was asking if YOU understood EVERYTHING, all of human history, all of science, biology, everything you see and everything you know, as if it was examples of a Grand Unified Field Theory that you came up with. Does it all make sense to you?

sure

everything can be reduced to FIRST CAUSE + CAUSE-AND-EFFECT + RANDOM NOISE

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I didn't say anything about noumenon.

your word choice is interchangeable with my word choice

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

We can estimate. But we cannot be certain. A big round yellowish fruit may be an orange, or it may be a grapefruit.

i know what the fog of war is

your personal data only needs to be "actionable"

other than that

you can calculate sigma

 

[BurnedOut]

I think the UI never made it properly to smartphones. Tapatalk is clunkier than all social media apps. There is nothing but a lack of UI. Forums are just visually dated but i don't think they are that different.

 

[scorpiomover]

If we just accepted what we saw and heard, we would never have tried to do anything like that.

we absorb somewhat noisy sensory data

and we test it

and think about it

and test it again

I agree that we SHOULD test what we believe, and think about what we see that contradicts that.

If you and everyone else did that, then you'd be in agreement with everyone on all those things that can be known via testing and thinking.

 

[scorpiomover]

I was asking if YOU understood EVERYTHING, all of human history, all of science, biology, everything you see and everything you know, as if it was examples of a Grand Unified Field Theory that you came up with. Does it all make sense to you?

sure

everything can be reduced to FIRST CAUSE + CAUSE-AND-EFFECT + RANDOM NOISE

A "first cause" would be G-d. Atheists reject the notion of a Prime Mover, and so reject the idea of a FIRST CAUSE.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

If you and everyone else did that, then you'd be in agreement with everyone on all those things that can be known via testing and thinking.

HUME'S GUILLOTINE

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

A "first cause" would be G-d. Atheists reject the notion of a Prime Mover, and so reject the idea of a FIRST CAUSE.

this statement is provably false

 

[ZenRaiden]

They are not dead.

They are undead.

 

[scorpiomover]

I didn't say anything about noumenon.

your word choice is interchangeable with my word choice

No, it's not.

Thus, the smartest people say that NOUMENON is unfathomable. That's how they feel compared to their perception of the infinite capacity and infinite reality of NOUMENON, because they have trained themselves to perceive that infinite level of capability and reality much better than most humans have.

sure, call it whatever you want to call it

Some things show the property of being unfathomable, due to their nature that however much you contemplate them or experience them, there's always more to know, understand and experience. Some of those things are phenomena like computing and dance. Some of those things are noumena like G-d.

Implying those things are noumena, is assuming that is assuming that unfathomability is because of their independence to human existence, not their infinite depth of expression that can be expressed by humans.

That in turn assumes that knowledge that is not completely knowable, is always knowledge that is inaccessible to us.

Sometimes, it would require more time to acquire that knowledge than we have.

Sometimes, it would require infinite time, which we don't have, not as physical and finite humans.

 

[scorpiomover]

A "first cause" would be G-d. Atheists reject the notion of a Prime Mover, and so reject the idea of a FIRST CAUSE.

this statement is provably false

Then where's the proof?

 

[scorpiomover]

If you and everyone else did that, then you'd be in agreement with everyone on all those things that can be known via testing and thinking.

HUME'S GUILLOTINE

I am describing what would be the case in your hypothetical reality where everyone did as they ought. But clearly, that's not the case, because people don't always do that.

Sometimes people absorb somewhat noisy sensory data, test it, think about it, test it again.

But quite often, they don't test it thoroughly, or don't think about it thoroughly.

You assume that humans are perfectly rational. If they all were perfectly rational, religions would not be necessary for humans.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

A "first cause" would be G-d. Atheists reject the notion of a Prime Mover, and so reject the idea of a FIRST CAUSE.

this statement is provably false

Then where's the proof?

myself

i do believe in a FIRST CAUSE but i don't believe in G-d

and i know that i am not alone in this

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

ou assume that humans are perfectly rational.

rational seems to imply some sort of pre-planning

i know that humans are logical

emotions are logical

everything is subject to cause-and-effect

 

[Old Things]

A "first cause" would be G-d. Atheists reject the notion of a Prime Mover, and so reject the idea of a FIRST CAUSE.

this statement is provably false

Then where's the proof?

myself

i do believe in a FIRST CAUSE but i don't believe in G-d

and i know that i am not alone in this

The first cause is in your imagination. It does not exist in reality.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

The first cause is in your imagination. It does not exist in reality.

i mean sure

the stakes are pretty low

since the logical-necessity of a FIRST CAUSE

doesn't affect my personal life in any way whatsoever

 

[Old Things]

The first cause is in your imagination. It does not exist in reality.

i mean sure

the stakes are pretty low

since the logical-necessity of a FIRST CAUSE

doesn't affect my personal life in any way whatsoever

What I am saying is that you believe in a first cause without definition. And it very well could effect your afterlife.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

What I am saying is that you believe in a first cause without definition. And it very well could effect your afterlife.

NDE research seems to indicate no special preparation is required

 

[Old Things]

What I am saying is that you believe in a first cause without definition. And it very well could effect your afterlife.

NDE research seems to indicate no special preparation is required

That's not the final judgment. And shouldn't you at least hear out the case for the different religious? Why do you reject all of them?

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

That's not the final judgment. And shouldn't you at least hear out the case for the different religious? Why do you reject all of them?

did you happen to explore them all before deciding that one of them was not only "the best fit" for you personally, but somehow invalidated all competitors ?

 

[Old Things]

That's not the final judgment. And shouldn't you at least hear out the case for the different religious? Why do you reject all of them?

did you happen to explore them all before deciding that one of them was not only "the best fit" for you personally, but somehow invalidated all competitors ?

My faith is largely based on experience. Someone miraculously confirmed the Bible as the Word of God to me. PM me and I will send you a link to my testimony.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

My faith is largely based on experience. Someone miraculously confirmed the Bible as the Word of God to me. PM me and I will send you a link to my testimony.

and that's what i boils down to

individual experience

not just logic

not just historic evidence

not results

individual experience

GNOSIS

 

[Old Things]

My faith is largely based on experience. Someone miraculously confirmed the Bible as the Word of God to me. PM me and I will send you a link to my testimony.

and that's what i boils down to

individual experience

not just logic

not just historic evidence

not results

individual experience

GNOSIS

The thing is, there seems to be this trend that people who try and prove the resurrection is wrong end up becoming a Christian.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Reddit is mostly quips. There's a few thoughtful posts. But not many.

 

[scorpiomover]

Reddit is mostly quips. There's a few thoughtful posts. But not many.

So you found a thoughtful thread that lasts all of 5 posts, and whose subject matter is "Does everything have a reason?"?

In your universe, does 1 semi-thoughtful thread out of hundreds of thousands of threads, means that "there's not many thoughtful posts" would be incorrect?

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

In your universe, does 1 semi-thoughtful thread out of hundreds of thousands of threads, means that "there's not many thoughtful posts" would be incorrect?

hey, i was just trying to help you

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

The thing is, there seems to be this trend that people who try and prove the resurrection is wrong end up becoming a Christian.

and weirdly, many people who dedicated their life to studying the dead sea scrolls lost their faith