Why are Feelings so important ?

[Yodon]

Hi,

I was having a discussion with a few friends last night about the merits of diplomacy and looking out for people feelings and things like that , and no one could answer me properly with what I would consider a real logical explanation ,

I understand that "The System" and "The Game " exist ect in life but i really don’t like them , I was being told that i was wrong for generally wanting to go somewhere far away from society and have nothing to do with people. Most people i see on the street i find make me annoyed, as they seem almost like beasts of burden, unable to control themselves , or think outside the box they are truly only concerned with drink smoking and screwing ect , they hang outside in packs of all ages squawking ect. I do accept this is a hugely sweeping generalisation and is not true in all cases.

anyway I’m getting off topic hahah, i mean i do have some feeling but generally i find I’m apathetic to most things and i generally don’t care about other people’s issues which probably makes me biased . but what’s so important about making people feel better ect why is such emphasis placed on the feelings of others, i got told a story last night how my friend saw a woman trip in the street and she went to help her up and picked up her bag first, then as the woman got up she was freaking out saying where was her bag ect and couldn’t be calmed down as my mate tried to explain she was just trying to help, i told her that she should just of just told the woman to shut up calm down and get out of the road , and i was told " you just can’t say that " my question is why .

Sorry this was drawn out i do waffle at times.

Thanks

 

[Fallenman]

Lol I feel like your question is missing some details as to particulars. Essentially what you seem to be asking is why we should be considerate.

A short and simple answer: Treat others as you would want to be treated. It seems quite simple but it seriously has subtly complex meanings to it. I mean it explains how you shouldn't hit people because you don't want to be hit, but then it can also explain why it might be in your interest to go out of your way to help others when it seems to be an incredible inconvenience to you. Plus, there is generally a rewarding feeling one gets when a person truly appreciates your help.

There is very little be gained for being unnecessarily rude. In fact it alienates and serves as a detriment to you in social settings. People have claimed that merit, money, etc. gets you where you want to go. Really... Its who you know that gets you where you wanna be. So long as you want to do anything with anyone, you're going to have to live with people and live by their rules. Social capital is relevant, probably the most relevant capital a person can have.

So anyways, the most logical point is merely so that we can live civilly together. Its simply upholding that social contract. You don't steal my truck, and I wont kill your dog. And if you really want to put two heads together and come up with something better, you might even help each other out. I'll let you borrow my truck to take your dog to the vet, and you can let me borrow your lawn mower until I can afford to buy my own.

Perhaps you don't care for trucks, dogs, or well kept lawns, but the point is to be considerate nonetheless. Now one could argue, well I don't mean to knock the lady over and steal her bag, i just would prefer she figured out how to stand up on her own two feet by herself, and likewise for me if i were in her shoes. I hope this seems like a short sighted response to anyone reading this, but theres more to it then remaining neutral and indifferent. I mean one could get philosophical and say that so long as you are not fully self-sufficient you owe it to society to give back, and then one could argue about how much is enough. Finding the cure for cancer might give you license to never have to worry about food again, but remembering to put the toilet seat down for other women in the household probably wont merit you anything comparably significant. But I wont go there, I will simply focus on the social contract.

So don't be unnecessarily rude. You gain nothing from having a person hate you, and you only cause harm if that person took the comments to heart. If you question why its important not to hurt people, i ask you to refer to the golden rule stated above. Help others, they might help you back, your reputation improves, and you might just gain a little twinge of happiness. I would say don't be rude in general, but perhaps one could find an appropriate time in which to be rude, say when your neighbor steals your truck. (although i'm of the position of Ghandi on the whole violence thing). And their feelings are important because your feelings are important and if you're able to extrapolate then you can see how theirs would be too. That isn't to say whats good for you is good for them, but simply to say that negative emotions are generally to be avoided.

Now I realize that the average person is generally annoying. I don't mean to be pompous but our intellect on average is better than your average Joe. Something that has become painfully realistic to me after having attended college for my first year, surrounded by brilliant minds, only to return to buffoons. But the reality is that the golden rule still applies. Perhaps they care about things we don't care about, such as material possessions, but the reality of the matter is that it is significant to them. So what I'm trying to say is no matter what you do to hurt their feelings, if you've hurt their feelings you've hurt their feelings. So just don't do it.

 

[Yodon]

That was a great read and very well written , thankyou

 

[Adamastor]

I always thought about it this way:

In fact these whole thing of doing to the other what you are wouldn't want someone else to do it with you is irrelevant.

The thing you should not get on the the bad side of everyone you meet because of the simple fact that you are a pathetic human, which means it is not good to make the world your enemy, because in this struggle you are doomed to failure.

This implies of course that if you want to do evil things for no reason to others, that's no problem actually (I have no concern for ethics, moral or anything like that) if you take care to not make it in a ineffecient way (if you enjoy making and seeing people miserable, there is absolute no problem with it, really, but you better act that way, making they feel miserable without they knowing that were you who made them miserable...).

IMHO, the whole thing of being considerate illustrates this scenario, because you can not be completely evil neither completely bad on your deeds, because you'd be doomed to failure (surely, there is not a big difference from having the world as your enemy or having the world as a big fat leecher). Being considerate kinda of put you in a neutral position, generally, and this is what you want most of the cases, unless you have some motive to not do so...

 

[snafupants]

Humans have both a cerebral cortex, governing higher thought, and a limbic system, the lynchpin of feelings and emotions. When these are lined up, the human is most happy. Think about what fallenman was talking about. The golden rule; it combines both a logical component, as in one would not want that done to them, and an emotional component, as in the good feelings one gets from aiding others.

In reality, however, you are right: people, by and large, are stupid, myopic, and materialistic. Nonetheless, INTPs find themselves in the same world as these people - "who you callin' yu people" - and, thus, must find a peaceable middleground. Most benignly, it's going out and saving puppies, but realistically it's not putting people down. Everyone thinks they're the bee's knees, just let them have their shallow happiness!

 

[KazeCraven]

Most people are hedonists.
Hedonists believe pleasure is good.
Feelings are a source of pleasure.

Therefore, most people believe feelings are a source of good.


I could take this further and derive a direct answer, but I think you see the argument. As for why you should care that other people believe feelings are important, other members have answered that quite well.

 

[Trebuchet]

I understand that "The System" and "The Game " exist ect in life but i really don’t like them , I was being told that i was wrong for generally wanting to go somewhere far away from society and have nothing to do with people. Most people i see on the street i find make me annoyed, as they seem almost like beasts of burden, unable to control themselves , or think outside the box they are truly only concerned with drink smoking and screwing ect , they hang outside in packs of all ages squawking ect. I do accept this is a hugely sweeping generalisation and is not true in all cases.

I remember feeling that way. I enjoyed it, too. Most of the superiority is an illusion, though.

One thing that made me reevaluate how I viewed other people was the first time I had jury duty. I was very young and absolutely certain that jurors were just morons who were ruled by emotion and followed whichever lawyer made the best appeal to those emotions. I was so wrong.

Everyone on the jury showed themselves capable of dismissing the fact that one litigant was more likable, ignoring anything the judge instructed us to ignore, and generally focusing on the facts of the case. It involved an auto accident, and they actually listened when I argued the physics of the case (a physicist had been an expert witness - he examined auto accidents to figure out what happened). Not only was the jury fair and impartial, every juror was courteous, because a bunch of strangers who don't want to be there can get unpleasant quickly.

I've met a lot of people I didn't like, didn't respect, and didn't want to be around. I've felt frustration when societal rules demanded that I conform to some standard I didn't create. But for all that, I haven't met anyone who matches your description of a beast with no self-control. Not even the ones I fantasized about taking slow revenge -- uh, oversharing, sorry.

 

[cheese]

I remember feeling that way. I enjoyed it, too. Most of the superiority is an illusion, though.

One thing that made me reevaluate how I viewed other people was the first time I had jury duty. I was very young and absolutely certain that jurors were just morons who were ruled by emotion and followed whichever lawyer made the best appeal to those emotions. I was so wrong.

Everyone on the jury showed themselves capable of dismissing the fact that one litigant was more likable, ignoring anything the judge instructed us to ignore, and generally focusing on the facts of the case. It involved an auto accident, and they actually listened when I argued the physics of the case (a physicist had been an expert witness - he examined auto accidents to figure out what happened). Not only was the jury fair and impartial, every juror was courteous, because a bunch of strangers who don't want to be there can get unpleasant quickly.

I've met a lot of people I didn't like, didn't respect, and didn't want to be around. I've felt frustration when societal rules demanded that I conform to some standard I didn't create. But for all that, I haven't met anyone who matches your description of a beast with no self-control. Not even the ones I fantasized about taking slow revenge -- uh, oversharing, sorry.

Yeah, I've never quite understood the superiority or 'stupid shallow moron' theory. The more people drilled it into my head, the more I started wondering if perhaps this was simply because I myself am a stupid shallow moron. While your experiences don't rule this out entirely, they do make me feel a little better about myself and the world in general.

I do think that people exhibit more superficiality and thoughtlessness in daily life than they would in special situations like a trial. I think most people are able to rise to the occasion when it's novel enough to be considered worth rising to, but most of life isn't like that, and perhaps that's where the misanthropy takes its fuel from.

 

[KazeCraven]

As far as what I think of the average person, I think most people just haven't thought about assumptions of what's important to them much. Namely, they haven't clarified their philosophy. I don't blame them, since for most people it seems like it would be unnecessary work.

Also, if you look for shallow people, you'll find them. If you look for intelligent people, you'll find them too. Superficiality is a protective measure for handling people we aren't close to, so I agree that people aren't so bad in general. Any apparent stupidity is usually an exaggeration due to appeal to several minorities (e.g. general advertisement... "We'll get someone eventually!").

 

[gregarian]

I think it's easy for an INTP to lose track of the world because they can stay in pure thought, driven by the impulse for cohesion they forget that it's really just an impulse and dream, and not the natural state of the world. In the world of interaction there is no neat system. There is constant conflict among people with different temperaments, interests, and habits. It's not that people are at war, but that there is such diversity that stress and tension are everywhere, and that it is difficult to deal with, and that most people cannot deal with it and lash out from time to time.

In fact, free will does not exist. An to the extent that will exists, it's very difficult to exercise. People are thrown into the world and they fight and rationalize like animals until they die. This is a universal fact.

To consider another person's feelings illegitimate one must first illegitimize or refuse to recognized one's own faults and feelings. When one takes a true look at oneself, and sees that they are part of a larger social system, it is evident that compassion is important.