Why amount to anything at all?

[Rudolph Mondal]

I have this problem that I want to tell you guys about. It goes like this..

I have moments, rare as they might be, when everything illuminates, where I feel like I understand it all.

And then there are moments like this when I don't interested in anything, nothing at all but the desire to do something that I'd consider productive is still very much present. So I go from one book to the next, reading a few pages of each. Ultimately, I feel immensely dissatisfied. So I pester my parents, ask them to speak to me. They do but it doesn't interest me, it's all mundane talk, nothing exciting. So I pester then some more, till they're at their wits end. Towards the end of this process, I'm basically a child. Petulant, stubborn, plain annoying. Quite embarrassing but I start slapping their arms and shaking them. Eventually the whole house is on fire. My parents get frustrated and leave. I get angry, perhaps I overturn the armchair and leave in a huff, to my room and settle down and sleep.

It's usually not that bad. I'm recounting a scene from last week. Today, I did pester my parents and become extremely childish and slap their arms and shake them but it wasn't so bad. We were able to part for our respective rooms amicably.

Basically, it's more or less the same thing every time I come back home from school over the weekend.

I think I'm ill.

When I first joined this forum, I mentioned about being diagnosed with a particular mental illness. My doctors won't tell me what but based on my medication I think it fall under the category of schizophrenia.

I don't understand why sometimes in fact most of the time, I feel so listless about life. Well, not exactly listless. More of being really irritated by the fact that I feel so dull and don't find anything interesting.

In the past when I had very intense crushes, that'd fill the course of my entire days and so I never thought about feeling dull. I was extremely...passionate. I won't go into the details regarding my unrequited affairs.

I don't know which is better. This dullness or that intense passion.

I'm at a loss, really.

There are so many things I want to learn and do or at least I tell myself that I want to learn those things. I want to investigate the mathematical basis of physical theories, explore the philosophical position known as structural realism, I want to learn about the mathematics used in quantum mechanics, I want to learn more generally about how eigenfunctions, eigenvectors and eigenvalues can be applicable. I want to learn about the topological basis of Whitehead's Process and reality, the topological foundations of cognitive science. There's so much...so much that I tell myself that I want to do.

Writing down the previous paragraph rekindled some of the old passion in me but I know it won't last. All of the things I mentioned, I became aware of them in my moments of passion. They're rare, hardly lasts more than a few days each time and then...weeks of drought. Weeks, sometimes months of dullness.

I want to be someone. I want to amount to something. I want to contribute something. Most importantly, I want to know things. I want to be enlightened. But it's just that I feel so dull and lack motivation most of the time.

Anyone been through similar experiences and would like to share some light on how they managed to overcome all of that dullness and irritability that arises from that dullness?

Or is there no hope?

 

[cyanical]

I have no solutions to offer you, but I have sympathy. What you describe sounds a lot like what I experience.

I think I could use a different environment--be around people with more similar values. I find the prevailing values of American culture to be unhealthy. Nothing new there. But it might be time to put my money where my mouth is and get away somehow. Or something. I don't know.

Just don't give up hope. Though something tells me you couldn't even if you wanted to.

 

[Anktark]

Now I am no physician, but you don't seem to suffer from unclear thinking or easily lost train of thought. At least that's what I gather from your post. If I were you, I would be weary about taking anti-psychotic medication.


It was kinda easy for me to counter this mental apathy, because I am easily amused. That and a daily pellet of Fuckitall.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avolition

 

[Absurdity]

Dude, get out of the house and go do stuff.

Sit in on college courses, go to interesting talks and presentations, ask if you can volunteer at a research facility or some company you'd be interested in working at, etc. Adults will admire the initiative and be willing to give you opportunities that otherwise would not be advertised, and you'll get to be in a stimulating environment that will give you the motivation to self-study.

 

[Cæilon]

Stop psychoanalyzing yourself and go and do something. You can um and ah until the cows come home. If what you're doing isn't satisfying your need, either add a bit of spice to it, or try something else.

 

[OrLevitate]

hire a prostitute and use her as ur whiteboard for all those physics n philosophiz

or strip-study partner on craigslist?

you could study metamotivation, intrinsic motivation, flow, anhedonia, blunted affect, use yourself as a test subject

 

[Analyzer]

Read better books.

 

[k9b4]

If you want to be someone important, go and be someone important. Stop thinking about being someone important and actually do it.

Get a hobby. Go outside. Play a sport. Make some friends. Find a pretty girl and have sex with her. Balance is important.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

Right, so the bulk of you are telling me to go out there and do stuff. Hmm...

Okay then, thinks me, why not schedule a trip to the outside world one of these days?

But really, I do go out there and do stuff. I have school/college/university for one.

And I visited the central library in the middle of town last friday.

Maybe I could go there again...hmm.

But really guys, for someone of my interests, what is there to do?

 

[The Gopher]

I have no idea how they can tell something is working/not working if you can't give feedback. (in regards to the Medication) If that was to happen to me it would have to be medication to ensure I don't kill doctors.

I prefer passion. I don't have much to add right now though.

 

[k9b4]

Do whatever the fuck you want.

Go to a nightclub by yourself, find a pretty girl and have sex with her. Not old enough to get into a nightclub? Who cares. Try to get in anyway.

Go and steal someone's car, do a bunch of burn outs, and then return it to them.

Go and climb a tree. See how high you can get.

Go find a random person on the street and tell them to go fuck themself, and then run away.

Seriously, you are limited only by your imagination. Do whatever the fuck you wanna do.

Do you know what plovers are? They are extremely territorial birds that we have here in australia. They attack you if you go into their territory. The other day I found myself a big stick and took over their territory because I felt like it. Do that. It was pretty fun.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

Do whatever the fuck you want.

Go to a nightclub by yourself, find a pretty girl and have sex with her. Not old enough to get into a nightclub? Who cares. Try to get in anyway.

Go and steal someone's car, do a bunch of burn outs, and then return it to them.

Go and climb a tree. See how high you can get.

Go find a random person on the street and tell them to go fuck themself, and then run away.

Seriously, you are limited only by your imagination. Do whatever the fuck you wanna do.

Do you know what plovers are? They are extremely territorial birds that we have here in australia. They attack you if you go into their territory. The other day I found myself a big stick and took over their territory because I felt like it. Do that. It was pretty fun.

Why in the world would I WANT to do those things? I'm not out of my mind, you know.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

I have no idea how they can tell something is working/not working if you can't give feedback. (in regards to the Medication) If that was to happen to me it would have to be medication to ensure I don't kill doctors.

I prefer passion. I don't have much to add right now though.

I think I prefer passion too now that I think about it.

 

[k9b4]

WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU WANT TO DO ANYTHING AT ALL

EMBRACE THE DARK SIDE, IT IS YOUR DESTINY

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU WANT TO DO ANYTHING AT ALL

EMBRACE THE DARK SIDE, IT IS YOUR DESTINY

Sorry but no thanks.

 

[nanook]

try to find the why and the how that resonates with you. don't ask for "what" until you know why and how, don't ask others "what".

any "what" that does not resonate with your criteria for "how" will make you suffer, that's what you described with your parents, i remember that, from asking my mother what to draw, when i had forgotten, why and how i used to draw things and i only remembered the "what", which was getting praised for good drawings and drawing became my "how" to be praised. originally, i drew for the same reason you read whitehead. to clarify my inner picture of reality.

so what is it about whitehead that resonates with you? is it, that understanding reality solves your problems? wrong, understanding reality becomes your problem, if you use it as a tool to manage life.

no, but understanding can constitute liberation from ignorance, from misinformation, from trance. so i'm just guessing but i think here is your why, as exemplified by whitehead.

don't look for objective answers to the why question. it's a decision you have to make. even though it's also your personal interpretation of the human condition.

and it's normal to have shifts in the why, at ages like 15, 21, 28, 35 ...
drugs don't help with that.

"I want to be someone. I want to amount to something" i think there may be too much what and how in those ideas already. find out if liberation causes you to be someone or not or if contributions spring from it.

if you gonna do some random things, like seeking interaction with your parents, don't do it for old reasons that don't resonate with your criteria for plausible "whys" any more.

you can use your parents for your own liberation, if liberation is your why. don't ask them to tell you who you are or what to do, that's the wrong "how". set them free. allow them to be individuals who are not responsible for you anymore. maybe tell them. maybe that makes them remember their own why (why they became parents) and talk about it and who knows, maybe that teaches you something about your own why. either way, being a child who seeks guidance from other people is the opposite of liberation, so quit that. be careful with books as well.

i didn't steal all of those thoughts from this video, i swear, just the little "why>how>what" gem.
a neat way of remembering it.

 

[k9b4]

Sorry but no thanks.

What if I said please?

Luke, I am your father.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

DO NOT FEAR THE DARK SIDE OF THE FORCE

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

try to find the why and the how that resonates with you. don't ask for "what" until you know why and how, don't ask others "what".

any "what" that does not resonate with your criteria for "how" will make you suffer, that's what you described with your parents, i remember that, from asking my mother what to draw, when i had forgotten, why and how i used to draw things and i only remembered the "what", which was getting praised for good drawings and drawing became my "how" to be praised. originally, i drew for the same reason you read whitehead. to clarify my inner picture of reality.

so what is it about whitehead that resonates with you? is it, that understanding reality solves your problems? wrong, understanding reality becomes your problem, if you use it as a tool to manage life.

no, but understanding can constitute liberation from ignorance, from misinformation, from trance. so i'm just guessing but i think here is your why, as exemplified by whitehead.

don't look for objective answers to the why question. it's a decision you have to make. even though it's also your personal interpretation of the human condition.

and it's normal to have shifts in the why, at ages like 15, 21, 28, 35 ...
drugs don't help with that.

"I want to be someone. I want to amount to something" i think there may be too much what and how in those ideas already. find out if liberation causes you to be someone or not or if contributions spring from it.

if you gonna do some random things, like seeking interaction with your parents, don't do it for old reasons that don't resonate with your criteria for plausible "whys" any more.

you can use your parents for your own liberation, if liberation is your why. don't ask them to tell you who you are or what to do, that's the wrong "how". set them free. allow them to be individuals who are not responsible for you anymore. maybe tell them. maybe that makes them remember their own why (why they became parents) and talk about it and who knows, maybe that teaches you something about your own why. either way, being a child who seeks guidance from other people is the opposite of liberation, so quit that. be careful with books as well.

i didn't steal all of those thoughts from this video, i swear, just the little "why>what>how" gem.
a neat way of remembering it.

Thank you. That was a pretty nice post. So you're saying that my why is liberation? Well, I haven't reflected on it yet but that seems plausible. Perhaps you're right on the dot about this.

May I ask what made you conclude that liberation is my why?

I myself am confused about why I want or do certain things.

Sesrching, always searching.

 

[EditorOne]

I think one of the things somebody needs to say to you is that hitting people is utterly unacceptable unless you are defending yourself or someone else. That your parents would tolerate being slapped baffles me. It's your frustration coming out, sure, but it's not a logical or helpful thing to do. Break something, instead. I used to do windows.

It is also the one thing you're doing that can lead to outside interference that will NOT play out in your favor. It's not an INTP forum out there, it's a world run by people who love to slap labels on behavior so they can deploy standard "remedies".

Aside from that, back up two steps.

Lots of people go through periods of frustration for one reason or another. Failure to find a comprehensive paradigm for our existence is a pretty high-end frustration; additionally, some people have spent their lives trying to find and describe their understanding of that paradigm, with varying results. You picked a high mountain that many have found frustrating.
That's not the problem. The problem is your inability to control or direct your frustration in ways that are both socially acceptable and personally satisfying.
My suggestion is to embrace the reality that you're the only one who can bring your prolonged emotions under control, and start researching how to do that.

Yes, others here have gone through mood swings from exultation to despair, sometimes right in front of our "eyes." Some of us still know there are days during which 'I better not talk to people today.' You work around it. One of the good things about this forum is that you can let it out here and know you're not going to get judged.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

So apparently there has to be something that I'm passionate about, that I enjoy doing in my free time.

Well...I don't think I've found that passion yet. I don't really enjoy anything.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

I think one of the things somebody needs to say to you is that hitting people is utterly unacceptable unless you are defending yourself or someone else. That your parents would tolerate being slapped baffles me. It's your frustration coming out, sure, but it's not a logical or helpful thing to do. Break something, instead. I used to do windows.

It is also the one thing you're doing that can lead to outside interference that will NOT play out in your favor. It's not an INTP forum out there, it's a world run by people who love to slap labels on behavior so they can deploy standard "remedies".

Aside from that, back up two steps.

Lots of people go through periods of frustration for one reason or another. Failure to find a comprehensive paradigm for our existence is a pretty high-end frustration; additionally, some people have spent their lives trying to find and describe their understanding of that paradigm, with varying results. You picked a high mountain that many have found frustrating.
That's not the problem. The problem is your inability to control or direct your frustration in ways that are both socially acceptable and personally satisfying.
My suggestion is to embrace the reality that you're the only one who can bring your prolonged emotions under control, and start researching how to do that.

Yes, others here have gone through mood swings from exultation to despair, sometimes right in front of our "eyes." Some of us still know there are days during which 'I better not talk to people today.' You work around it. One of the good things about this forum is that you can let it out here and know you're not going to get judged.

Thank you.
I know it's not right for me to treat my parents the way I do.
I must stop it somehow. But.

Right, I must stop.

 

[OrLevitate]

So apparently there has to be something that I'm passionate about, that I enjoy doing in my free time.

Well...I don't think I've found that passion yet. I don't really enjoy anything.

i posted this in ur other thred i going 2 post ughin:

I'm not sure if this will help but:

There may be off kilter view of interests or 'passions' in modern culture. We live in pretty much constant entertainment and ease, pretty steadily at a high level. Finding an interest that can be translated into a career may not come easily due to that interest having to compete with the constant interests that were created purely for the sake of entertainment. If you go without many luxuries for a while, you might find things that are interesting to you that you would translate into a career; How was that bridge made? What materials, why that shape, could it be done better? What makes that insect do what it does, how does it have such a specialized form? I'm going to find out. What makes those stars different from the sun, how many might have planets, or ones like ours?
But in the presence of constant entertainment, following through on these interests doesn't really stand a chance. These things would take something that today we might call work but in yesteryear they might've called interesting.

also, there may be a cultural paradigm being fed to you that you may not fit into. That of your job being 'a passion' and, that that passion falls under one of the college system's categories of 'majors'. Maybe work is not fun ever, and that's why it's called work and they pay you for your time doing it, and time not working is where you get to do interesting things (work-life balance). Or maybe your 'passion' isn't something the college can teach you.

Maybe you're not currently good at anything. Generally when people are good at a certain skill, they become immersed in a state of 'flow' when the skill level is met with an adequate challenge.

also, you may not actually want any interests at all. Maybe you're like the guy from Office Space and seek apathy, the gift bestowed on apex predators who sleep all day. No requirements, just free time. Maybe you're in agony because you're trying to live a way that culture dictates which you don't actually care to.

i'd say, when you feel something, anything, embrace it, let it rear its head, then u can have more clarity of what's going on. i dont think itd be wise to do so around ur parents tho

also, you state you want things, and you're interested in some stuff, but you're not. let that sink in, you're not interested, or motivated. You're not, right? you want to want stuff, why? if you dont have a genuine answer for that, then you're just gonna keep circling around the issue, from brief moments of enthusiasm back to the dullness, getting more and more dull every time, diminishing returns on enthusiasm as you realize its disingenuousness

for 10/10 best 4 u advice tho; u should get enough monies to go on vacation for a month or two, with no requirements of you, nothing planned in teh future, where you bathe in your lack of interest, and do whatever you want, even if that's absolutely nothing. u try to be as genuine in your life as possible, also you have to be almost completely alone for the whole shindig. if you have access to a hyperbolic time chamber that would help (and plz tell me if u find one) and maybe like 30 bottles of whiskey. I mean, you're headed there anyways, right? not meant derogatorily but, embrace it! see what you might learn, at worst its exactly what you want, for a little while. and a goal to keep you going until then

 

[nanook]

>May I ask what made you conclude that liberation is my why?

1) It's the ultimate why, that works when all other whys fail to convince you of their worthiness.
2) I'm not too familiar with withehead, but his thinking is taking reality apart to the point where it resembles mysticism. and i just assumed that you may resonate with that, since you mention him.
3) we are introverts, the world bothers us, consumes us. liberation is not liberation from the world, it's liberation in the world, but a liberation of being bothered by it.

 

[OrLevitate]

Break something, instead. I used to do windows.

I'm partial to the traditional method of manly shouts in the wilderness, such catharsis, it also works as a frustration-meter. timeless classic

 

[Absurdity]

But really guys, for someone of my interests, what is there to do?

Sit in on college courses, go to interesting talks and presentations, ask if you can volunteer at a research facility or some company you'd be interested in working at, etc. Adults will admire the initiative and be willing to give you opportunities that otherwise would not be advertised, and you'll get to be in a stimulating environment that will give you the motivation to self-study.

Okay then, thinks me, why not schedule a trip to the outside world one of these days?

But really, I do go out there and do stuff. I have school/college/university for one.

And I visited the central library in the middle of town last friday.

Maybe I could go there again...hmm.

You're not going out and doing stuff with people. You're not putting yourself in a social environment where you are exposed to people with similar interests who give you a real reason to become well versed in the subjects you are curious about.

It's not a matter of "scheduling trips." It's a matter of making it a habit, immersing yourself in it.

Of course this will entail a lot of social legwork. You'll probably have moments of embarrassment, frustration, anxiety, etc., because it sounds like you don't have the best social skills (and that shit you do to your parents sounds downright infantile - how they put up with it is a genuine mystery). But you have to be willing to expose yourself and take risks if you ever want to do anything great. If you could get there off genius alone you wouldn't be posting here.

 

[StevenM]

I'd say to take responsibility. Elaboration:

You do have free will to make any decision you want.
Your current actions are the cause of your situation.

So by taking responsibility, you have to admit to yourself that you are doing alot of this to yourself. And that you do have the ability to change and make things more towards the way you want. If you need guidance, seek it, and be sure to follow through.

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M6MS-qBgqg

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

Okay, I could do that and have done of that in the past. Immersed myself in a social environment, tried to take responsibility for the choices I make but it doesn't last.

Nothing lasts and that's a problem.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm just some masochist who merely pretends to want to tell the world he wants to change because that's social acceptable.

I don't know if I am one though.

That's the problem.

I don't know who I am.

 

[k9b4]

I don't know who I am.

You are whoever you want to be.

Pick something, anything, and do it. It doesn't even matter what it is. You don't even have to enjoy it. You find your passions by trial and error. Do a bunch of stuff and see which stuff you like.

Do you like video games? Find a competitive video game and practice every day until you become the best at it.

You said you want to be someone important, you want to be respected. Respect has to be earned. Respect is acknowledging that another person is better than you at something. You become better at other people at things by practicing. Go and practice something.

 

[Pyropyro]

So apparently there has to be something that I'm passionate about, that I enjoy doing in my free time.

Well...I don't think I've found that passion yet. I don't really enjoy anything.

Based on my life, passion is developed rather than something automatic. The more you do something or spend time with someone, the better chance you'll gain passion regarding that area of your life or be passionate/intimate with that person.

So if you spend a lot of time moping then guess what you'll be passionate about.

 

[Black Rose]

you seem to like quantum physics
do that

 

[crippli]

I want to be someone. I want to amount to something. I want to contribute something. Most importantly, I want to know things. I want to be enlightened. But it's just that I feel so dull and lack motivation most of the time.

Do any sort of flying activity. It's always fascinated human kind, and always will, as we are designed as turtles. It is a great symbol to brake out of ones shell.

You seem to want to do advanced thinking, and be rewarded for this? That's easy. Do something like

Spoiler

this

. Will force you to acquire a lot of knowledge about everything. The more the better. Fluid dynamics go way beyond differential equations. Perhaps with real understanding of quantum mechanics, you could see the matrix and the above game could almost become easy. I doubt that. But imagination can be used to many things.

 

[EditorOne]

Seek new ideas and experiences and concepts. You just haven't found yours yet. No rush. Don't be hard on yourself.

 

[Teax]

More of being really irritated by the fact that I feel so dull and don't find anything interesting.
(...)
Nothing lasts and that's a problem.

a problem is problematic once you deem it to be. otherwise it's just a fact.

accept yourself

I don't know who I am.

unconditionally.

a passion is like an ocean wave. subjective and turbulent. the opposite is not (just) dullness - it's clarity. a reason/the "why" - is like the surf board. without it, the wave will pass you, control you, leave only a memory of a short buzz. with it, you are in control. to a certain degree...

Pick something, anything, and do it. It doesn't even matter what it is. You don't even have to enjoy it. You find your passions by trial and error. Do a bunch of stuff and see which stuff you like.

like the cutiemark crusaders, with similar success quota.

 

[marv]

Do you have existential problems facing you other than just being bored? If not, then you're only seeing the tip of iceberg, I think.

 

[nearfantastica]

It seems as though you have similar problems to me. And honestly, what just about everyone that's posted has told you to do is by far the best answer.

Go and do shit. Force yourself to do things that (hopefully only initially) make you uncomfortable - especially when it comes to social situations. Find hobbies. Experience as much as you can. Because it's hard to figure out who you are and what you want by sitting around and letting yourself be underwhelmed with boredom or a lack of answers. And sitting around making excuses for yourself and not being an active participant in your own life gets you absolutely nowhere.

A self-defeating attitude is a dangerous thing. Trust me, I know.

 

[TheManBeyond]

nanook i would certainly be your disciple

 

[mooncrater]

Think about what you ate yesterday. Now consider the total amount of food you consume in a week. Think about the number of steps it takes and the number of people and work involved just in keeping you fed. What do you provide to deserve all of this? In order to justify the amount of resources you consume, you need to amount to something. Once you understand that, the next question is how. You'll find many people trying to answer that question. Join the club - it's not so bad

 

[onesteptwostep]

Imo you sound like you have some sort of depression, not schizophrenia. Schizophrenia will amaze the crap out of you and you'll be thrown about mentally. You'll definately feel there's something wrong.

From what I can tell I think you might just have heartache. No lie. In my high school years I had about 2 really uncomfortable experiences with love/relationship and it put me in a depression until graduation. I didn't know it at the time, but in retrospect I think that's what made me feel like I was in the slumps. I think generally INTPs have a hard time closing up relationships. They think it's better to just keep quiet and avoid it like the plague.

Go watch a romantic film