Why do you keep playing the age card?
Didn't you pay attention in logic class? The nature of the person making a point has no effect on the truth and validity of the point itself.
No. But many male teenage youths act more confidently than their arguments deserve, and much more confidently than those who are expert in the subject and agree with them, behave on the topic, even with the most solid of arguments that cannot be defeated. So when a young teenage male acts as if he is sure, and there really doesn't seem to any such basis in his views, then it is likely that he follows the behaviour of such people, for the same reasons they do.
And documentaries are the sum total of reality. 
And you call
me a know-it-all.
I know they don't give the full picture. I don't rely on them to tell me what to think, but to be aware of what might be true, that I can research for myself.
Returning to my rebuttal: poorly implemented cultural values from the west yield the same poor results as poorly implemented cultural values from anywhere else.
Things have consequences. So different values, when implemented, also cause different effects, and so even when different values are poorly implemented, we see different consequences.
Furthermore, those living in the bush do not necessarily even have the faintest idea of what the city is,
We only know about them, because researchers have met them and talked to them. They know where we live! In cities!
and those on the outskirts may very well be taught to stay where they are, both directly and indirectly.
They may, and for good reason. The countries Westerners took over, usually had stable less-techology-dependent groups. Don't forget, that Africa, the Middle East, the Far East and India had millions living there for millennia. Evolution dictates that those that were unstable, would be going extinct, and those that were stable, would thrive.
It usually didn't go well. Slavery, unofficial slavery, mass rape, a collase of their civilisation into chaos and civil war, new diseases which decimated whole villages, our rape of their natural resources.
After all that, what would you do in their place?
Finally, cities in developing countries are nowhere near as safe or as clean as those in the developed world,
Sanitation is usually a problem. But I've been to distant places. They normally have far less issues with crime, physical assault, rape, and robbery than London. Their homes and streets are often much cleaner than ours.
However, it is true, that for a tourist, it's safer in their own country. Westerners normally have access to better infrastructure, and they've grown up with it, and so know how to get more out of it, than the places they are unfamiliar with. But I doubt that it's about countries. If you go to a major tourist destination like Agadir, everything's set up for you. If you get stuck in the Appalachians in mid-winter, Search & Rescue will probably have to come get you, because most Westerners don't have a clue how to survive there, not even though for Americans, it's their own country. It's about communities, such as town, villages, and even cities, that are set up with infrastructure that is very similar to the ones that you are used to in the places you lived in.
If the infrastructure matches enough, you know where to get a drink, that is safe to drink, and tasty, for a reasonable price, because it will probably be in the equivalent places as in your home town. The same for everything else. If it doesn't match, then you're in real problems. A guy straight out the jungle, who doesn't speak English, who is dropped into a small town in America, can't ask for a drink. He doesn't know how. Even if someone gives him a drink, the water could be dodgy, and he doesn't know how Americans know what water is safe to drink. So he's mistrustful of everything. He's got to be.
they very well may prefer the African bush to Mogadishu, Somalia.
I would too. Those are cities that have clearly been influenced by Western culture. They have guns there. Where did they get guns from? What has it brought?
If I knew everything, then why would I have asked you for data?
Many people IRL an online use such requests as an argument for dismissing things they know were true, but weakened their position. It seemed to me, that you seem to be au fait with the internet, and more than intelligent enough to look it up for yourself. By this time, I had thought that you'd have checked it for yourself, to see if your supposition was right.
If I relied on other people for sources, then other people could select the sources that support their case, and simply choose to not mention any sources that might prove them wrong, and then I could be manipulated to believe anything. So I prefer to check things out for myself. I had thought this was an INTP thing. I guess not.
You should be able to support your point yourself.
Scorpiomover said:
Japanese get a taste for Western food and fall victim to obesity and early death - Telegraph
The Okinawan islands, in Japan's extreme southwest, have more than two and a half times the national average of people over 100 years old and an extraordinary number of people who enjoy excellent health well into their eighties.
But the next generation is the fattest in Japan and prone to a range of obesity-related illnesses that could kill them in middle age.
Experts blame the gusto with which Okinawa took to fast food when the island was administered by the US, from the war until 1972. It got the first fast-food outlet in Japan — in 1963, seven years before Tokyo — and still has more fast-food outlets per head than anywhere else in the country.
Okinawa Island - The Healthiest Place on Earth | Oddity Central - Collecting Oddities
I used to think that there were only a handful of people over the age of 100 in the world. How wrong was I! The Japanese island of Okinawa alone has about 457 of them. It is considered to be the healthiest place in the world, where the average life expectancy of an Okinawan woman is 86, and man’s is 78. Not only do they live long lives, they live very healthy and happy ones too. A fine example is 96-year-old martial artist Seikichi Uehara, who, at his age, defeated a thirty-something ex-boxing champion. And also Nabi Kinjo, the 105-year-old woman who hunted down a poisonous snake and killed it with a fly swatter.
Unfortunately, the secrets accumulated by the elderly aren’t being imbibed with much enthusiasm by the present generation Okinawans. As in many other countries, Western fast food joints have invaded the island, which the youth prefer over traditional foods. One youngster chomping down on a burger says: “I like thick, greasy food.” “Goya is bitter,” says another, “so I don’t like it much.” The degradation of the healthy eating habits has taken its toll on the island, considerably reducing life expectancy. The rates of obesity and lung cancer are higher in Okinawa than compared to anywhere else in Japan. It appears that when the western world is awakening to the benefits of living life like the Okinawans, their very own youth are leaving it behind. It’s sad really, but the truth is the healthy people of Okinawa are nothing but living relics whose secrets of a truly healthy life will be lost in just a few years time…
The Okinawa Shock: As life expectancy falls, world watches with bated breath
They were already moving with everyone else. They had the momentum to keep moving. So they should have continued with everyone else, unless there was an evolutionary pressure to keep them in that point.
But this is factually incorrect. First, "The Amish" are a highly diverse group, with the avoidance of modern technology occurring primarily in The Old Order Amish, and within this group,
That's why I used the words "systemS for their communitieS", plural in both counts. I knew they were diverse and that their ludditism was heterogeneous. So I took that into account, in my post.
one need only look to the classic belief that cameras steal the souls of those in their portraits to realize that their avoidance of modern technology is not the result of pragmatism, but religion.
The old wives tale that one should put mouldly bread on a wound, sounds far more incredulous. That a piece of rotten food, that would make you sick to eat, can heal, by being placed on the site of infection? It sounds like one is trying to kill the person.
That is, until one finds out that the important ingredient of an antibiotic is mould.
Then one finds out that mould has been used for millennia, while us with our modern science only discovered their benefits about 100 years ago by accident. We thought they were idiots. Only they weren't that stupid, not like us. We knew they valued mould as a medical treatment. We could have tried to test mould. We didn't. How many could have been saved from certain death, if we had only been willing to accept that these people might actually have good reason for what they believe? As many as if we'd had antibiotics since the beginning of science. That's your Technological Utopia, right there.
Actually, a lot of cultures have concerns of stealing the self. Some believe that a picture steals something of the essence. It does. TV decimated Vaudeville. When you have the recording, you no longer need the original. When you have no pictures, you have to go see the people, to recall their image. When you have a picture, you don't. But they also know and do things that you don't get in a picture. So you rely on assumptions about info that only the person could provide, and you get things wrong. A classic theme of films of assassinations, is that the assassin makes himself up to look like someone else, gets passed in on that basis, while the police discover the real guy somewhere else.
The Japanese Samurai believed that using someone else's sword. Professional snooker players have their own cues, even though cues are already there to be used. Each instrument has its own imperfections. Getting to know those imperfections, allows one to account for them, which results in an optimal skill level. Even using a better weapon cannot always improve on this, because a better weapon still has imperfections, and if it's not your weapon, you don't know it. In the same way, the sword moulds to the user's hand over time, just like Sheldon's seat moulds to the shape of his bottom. Someone else using it, disturbs this flow towards a perfect symbiosis between handler and weapon. It's not noticeable to amateurs. But to those who practice for several hours a day, a different weapon moves ridiculously clumsily compared to your favourite, and even when someone else touches it, you can feel that it's lost a bit of that sensitivity.
Western culture also has concerns of stealing the self, i.e. stealing parts of one's mind, one's ideas. We call that "intellectual property theft". We protect it with patents.
The Amish treat modern culture in much the same way, with Hochmut (pride, arrogance, haughtiness) being a vice and Demut (humility) along with calmness, composure, and placidity being virtues. To achieve the latter ends, they focus on simple wear (hence the dark, plain coats, dresses, and hats) and simple lifestyles of farming, barn-raising, and family.
Pride comes before a fall. Arrogance is the vice of assuming you know it all. Humility is the value of self-doubt. It requires one to not assume that one knows things one doesn't. It's the very foundation of Ti and what makes INTPs so brilliant at so many things.
Overall, the Amish are a religious group with certain practices motivated by an inculcated desire to achieve eternal reward in the afterlife, not a group of pragmatist luddites, as you've asserted.
When I looked at the overview of how religions are portrayed in the West, they seemed irrational. But when I went into the details of the beliefs and practices of each religious group, and analysed them, it was clear to me that they were extremely consistent with very pragmatic attitudes. That clear consistency of behaviour, required me to change my views on them. So I did.
)? Cities in the developed world may have crime, but let us not forget that they are far, far safer than those in the developing world.
