What other type irritates you the most?

[Zero]

I think he was originally an INFJ, but he's become more extroverted as his confidence has grown. That's somewhat required in the US.

He does instantly make friends and instantly considers people friends. I'm not sure how to tell the difference between an S/NF. He's crafty, so I might assume he's more of an S. I guess I'll look over the profiles again and see which he seems the most like. I've only known him a few months, but it seems like I should already know. He's not extremely rigorous to plans, so it makes me think he's kind of a P. Which I guess would make him an INFP? He does perhaps fidget too much though... Maybe ISFP would be my best guess and he's become more extroverted...

I don't know about him suddenly cutting loose. He seems really loyal and steady paced and academically he's doing well as far as I know.

When I first met him he mentioned to me he would be very worried if anything happened to his friends. Including me, who he'd known for... two classes I think? So he instantly seemed like an ESFJ.

 

[echoplex]

ISFP
ESTJ

I actually try to like all people though. Yeah, that goes real well.

 

[The Fury]

INTPs, they're so bloody annoying.

 

[Aiss]

He does instantly make friends and instantly considers people friends. I'm not sure how to tell the difference between an S/NF. He's crafty, so I might assume he's more of an S. I guess I'll look over the profiles again and see which he seems the most like. I've only known him a few months, but it seems like I should already know. He's not extremely rigorous to plans, so it makes me think he's kind of a P. Which I guess would make him an INFP? He does perhaps fidget too much though... Maybe ISFP would be my best guess and he's become more extroverted...

Can't tell the difference between S/NF? I wonder if you've ever met an NF... don't be offended, it's just that these types seem to be so different... Try talking about abstract, otherworldly concepts with him (preferably somehow related to things he finds interesting). S would try to change the topic to something more mundane.

Also the idea of introverted/extroverted types in MBTI only overlap with the actual meaning of these words. Being E doesn't imply being very sociable (though it's more probable, I suppose), I doesn't make it impossible. My brother is an I, but he'd been more sociable than me, like our E sister, maybe even more.

 

[Adymus]

Yea, he sounds like a J type to me. Always sticking to the plan. Never weave from the plan. The plan keeps us safe. The plan is God.

It's not so much that he never weaves from "the plan" that makes him an ISTJ, it's how he never weaves from the past way of doing this.

 

[Zero]

Can't tell the difference between S/NF? I wonder if you've ever met an NF... don't be offended, it's just that these types seem to be so different... Try talking about abstract, otherworldly concepts with him (preferably somehow related to things he finds interesting). S would try to change the topic to something more mundane.

Also the idea of introverted/extroverted types in MBTI only overlap with the actual meaning of these words. Being E doesn't imply being very sociable (though it's more probable, I suppose), I doesn't make it impossible. My brother is an I, but he'd been more sociable than me, like our E sister, maybe even more.

I know. He describes himself as having been an "I" when he was younger. So that's what I suspect. I've met some NFs, but that doesn't necessarily have to be extreme, though most of the time I know instantly when I've met an INFJ. They're painfully obvious. It's like they're very considerate and such, but then they have this sense of time... It's trippy. "I care so much... but look at the time!" I don't know if I know many INFPs. They may be the ones that drive me Bad *beep* insane. They're like "I care so much, I hate the work, it makes me a good person though." WTF is that? I think certain NFs drive me nuts. It's like they're so super whimsical and unbelievable. You just kind of want to hit them and tell them to wake up. And then they're so offended... I think that's NFs yeah?

He's probably an S then. He's not like super insane or impractical. Though he does get angry over capitalism. Hates money, but needs it. Wants to live in the woods. Not sure what to do with that...

The Fury- You're at the wrong party. O_-;

 

[Aiss]

I know. He describes himself as having been an "I" when he was younger. So that's what I suspect. I've met some NFs, but that doesn't necessarily have to be extreme, though most of the time I know instantly when I've met an INFJ. They're painfully obvious. It's like they're very considerate and such, but then they have this sense of time... It's trippy. "I care so much... but look at the time!" I don't know if I know many INFPs. They may be the ones that drive me Bad *beep* insane. They're like "I care so much, I hate the work, it makes me a good person though." WTF is that? I think certain NFs drive me nuts. It's like they're so super whimsical and unbelievable. You just kind of want to hit them and tell them to wake up. And then they're so offended... I think that's NFs yeah?

He's probably an S then. He's not like super insane or impractical. Though he does get angry over capitalism. Hates money, but needs it. Wants to live in the woods. Not sure what to do with that...

This actually makes me wonder if some people I know are INFPs after all... I actually like this type (or what I think it to be) - among other things, they're great listeners, understanding what you're talking about (Ne), accepting rather than analyzing it (Fi), and when they speak, their solutions tend to be practical (Te), which to INTP means a lot. Then again, I'm probably biased by the shyness of those I know, and tend to think of INFPs as a non-talkative type. The sort of martyrdom show-off you're describing would drive me nuts as well .

 

[GYX_Kid]

STJ's can stand against the core values of an INTP (namely tradition and authority over creativity and raw logic), which can get in the way of things and drive both up the wall. This can be solved to some degree with mastery in either manipulative or diplomatic strategy, or SJish combativeness (even just SPish "kiss my ass" attitude can be basic enough when all else just sucks too much to be worth it).
[ See: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OpposingCombatPhilosophies ]

ENTJ's can be actually more like the anti-INTP itself, in extreme cases the schizoid turned inside-out to form the narcissist. The most self-insular and fantasy-oriented ENTJ treats his environment like the INTP counterpart would treat his own mind, which to an INTP might seem not only immature but "acting entitled" in every possible way.
I've seen ENTJs who shared the NT sentiment, were able to place it outward and were most importantly good people; these were mostly influential in some way.
The worst ones were either needlessly competitive and needing to prove their power, completely intolerant of anyone who "topped" them in the title they currently felt they should deserve among their peers and weren't even good at in the first place, or literal toxic vehicles of failure- being straight up evil/delusional/miserable/intelligent, and trying as hard as possible to ruin the lives of those he was jealous of or had something he wanted.
[ See: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilCounterpart ]

Naturally defaulting to INTP is like a cage, mostly in terms of inaction and failing to understand why something is an opportunity. I guess my own nature is the most irritating, if I had to pick. There were situations in which I could have chosen to transcend and do or be something different, but the tug-of-war in my mind usually tended to stick to its natural guns....and I always contemplate how things could maybe be better if I had "stepped up" if that's even what it would have been.

 

[GYX_Kid]

yes. Exactly what he said.

ESFJs I can write off as being ridiculous. They may try to shame you for not conforming to whatever values they've thoughtlessly soaked up throughout their lives, but that's about it. The ESTJs hit a lot harder, because their strongly extroverted Te doesn't respect Ti at all. They appreciate logic, but Te directs it towards organizing and categorizing external things. Ti is directed towards understanding and "upsetting" the situation as little as possible, instead finding the path of least resistance. Since it's combined with Si, ESTJs can't sense Ti's internal activity, leading them to think you're lazy and inactive. So... even though Ti is probably much more efficient (less active "force" on a situation), the ESTJs tend to be narrow minded and disrespectful of it--even though they value efficiency. Someone who doesn't respect my capability to think or understand pisses me of quite a bit more than an ESFJ who wouldn't respect my life choices/values.

Yeah, I've never met an ESTJ who didn't make me cry. They are completely openly invalidating. They reject everything I am, and they don't mind being bullies about it, perhaps as a misguided attempt to force conformity. They tend to want to punish me harshly for being the exact opposite of what I "should be."

Hmm. Maybe I don't regret pissing on my ESTJ roommate's neck at the end of the year, and harshly reinforcing his inability to be liked. All this time it was something that "I wasn't proud of".


In this case an ESTJ feels like a blunt-force oppressor, creating a source of hatred and disgust in the "victim".

I have met an ENTJ who is plagued by this same "victim" feeling of being oppressed, except since he is also ETJ his alignment is configured such that anything and everything in the world makes him feel this way- he "should" own things that extend beyond himself, and those extensions being taken away feel oppressive.

I dub the worst-case ESTJ fascist-conformist or "eraser", and worst-case ENTJ fascist-rebel or ultimate "pig". The ESTJ doesn't necessarily have the added self-importance, but is parasitically mindfucked by conformity and a militant pawn. Might even have envy of people with strong individuality.

ESTJ wants to destroy your self-importance for his perceived good of the machine, and ENTJ wants to destroy you for his perceived self-importance.


(These are the worst cases of each, again.)

 

[Lydia]

All the 'SP' personalities, they are unconditionally contagious!

I have met/befriended many SP's in my life. They seem to live for the moment ever so mindlessly, they begin to glue on to your purposes/how you are as a person/what you're doing and how you are. In metaphorical terms I am the earth and they are the tiniest detail pickers like a spec. Details and systematic things are pretty much the most obvious things to me, I seem to know how they work without a thought.

ISFP'S, ESFP'S and ISTP's - specifically ISFP's have been the worst case scenario. I cannot describe enough as to how much their traits are dislikeable. They seem to hold on to a small issue, making it look like a big loss. Not to mention their clinginess brings out the utmost dishonest pesistence. Which will pretty much, get them into someones way. In the outcome they will be seen as a 'tool' for violence.

Most people who I was 'not' in good terms with were, the ISFP's. Looking at their profiles, the traits do not seem enlightening in any case.

 

[downsowf]

INTPs. They're all such lazy bastards. Naturally, I'm a self-loathing INTP.

 

[GYX_Kid]

In the outcome [ISFPs] will be seen as a 'tool' for violence.

That's interesting to mention

A lot of rape, violence and misery happened once because of an ISFP girl and her attractiveness/stupidity. It's hard to blame it on her, but in some ways I guess you could call them the "key in the ignition" for the entire system of shit to run


Guess what,
Bowser ESTJ
Wario ENTJ
Princess Peach I*FP

I guess we're Toad, we can provide helpful items.

Fuck that shit. I'm gonna play a different game.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

That's interesting to mention

A lot of rape, violence and misery happened once because of an ISFP girl and her attractiveness/stupidity. It's hard to blame it on her, but in some ways I guess you could call them the "key in the ignition" for the entire system of shit to run


Guess what,
Bowser ESTJ
Wario ENTJ
Princess Peach I*FP

I guess we're Toad, we can provide helpful items.

Fuck that shit. I'm gonna play a different game.

Peach - ENFP
Mario - ISTP
Bowser - ESTP

 

[GYX_Kid]

Peach - ENFP
Mario - ISTP
Bowser - ESTP

whaaaat


I was talking about ENFP girls before, too.

I read about Mario being an ESFJ, but ISTP makes sense for him or a lot of action heroes.

 

[knight in battle]

Yeah, pretty much any SJ. Even if they aren't feeling, they are very easily offended by any disrespect for convention. To them, I'm a walking load of dissidence, and therefore, a target for their wrath.

It's interesting you say this, because I used to think all SJ's irritate me, too, but I've realized it's just the more vocal and insistent ones that irritate me. I have a friend who is ESTJ who I get along with fairly well. I despise one male ISTJ, but I also seem to like one female ISTJ. My father is probably ISFJ, and he certainly was strongly emotional and harshly expected that I be useful or impressive in most cases, but generally he's quite congenial. He seems SP, idealistic, and pragmatic in certain circumstances, but he is primarily dutiful and reliable.

But yes, my ISTJ roommate is FULL of "wrath", and I am definitely a target of his. So perhaps it is certain SJs that I can't stand. And I'm sure my ESTJ has been conventional in ways that I can't stand in his views of sexuality. Otherwise, his sexual waywardness allows us to me to feel at ease around him.

 

[knight in battle]

INTPs. They're all such lazy bastards. Naturally, I'm a self-loathing INTP.

I wonder the same thing about my INTP friend. I and a couple of friends of his would definitely see him as lazy. But from the way he maintains his household chores and personal space, I would say that he's quite diligent in those tasks. But if you're talking about productivity in socializing, caring, and producing something of value to society, yes, he seems to care about practically no one except the friends he finds interesting and his favorite activities and recently his schoolwork. This isn't a bad thing from a psychological standpoint. He moves at a social pace which he's comfortable with. He takes cares of HIS needs. Absolutely a healthy thing. He lets people know when they irritate him. He calls people when he needs someone to hang out with (canvassing)... definitely not socially lazy in this sense.

But he's such a hermit and uncaring person that I really have to agree that I would have to term this as "lazy".

On the other hand, I have another INTP friend who is the same, though congenial. Maybe he's just as lazy in the empathic sense, but he's definitely diligent in his work and career.

 

[Jelly Rev]

ESTJ's take the cake, tell you how to eat, and tell you your bad once u eat it.

Disecting ESFJ's belief systems is good fun, but ESTJ's argue logic with hard body language, and they are without doubt.

ISFP's are a danger to INTP in a different way, but not an issue in the herd like the ESTJ who may attempt to logically convince the herd to run off the cliff and succeed. ISFPs will slowly envelope your soul with darkness without your knowing.

I would advocate an alliance of INTPs with ENTJs to combat the SJ specifically ESTJ threat. You know the ENTJ's get pissed at ESTJ's for stealing their limelight.
All we would need is a simple system, with a faked leader(ENTJ) of mystical proportions to come to traditions aid. Then have the ENTJ champion a bunch of stuff they like, then tell everyone to take a test(MBTI), with a mandate that states, anyone who test as an INTP will be recongized as such and that These individuals(INTPS) know stuff and their input should be encouraged and listened to.
lol

 

[snafupants]

Any type that is a rule nazi, overly regimented, dictated by emotions, or given to excessive sensual stimulation usually wears me out.

 

[knight in battle]

ISFP
ESTJ

I actually try to like all people though. Yeah, that goes real well.

Just curious, what do you dislike about ISFP and ESTJ?

(I have an ESTJ friend and he used to be a bit stimatized, judgmental, nosy, and slightly bossy. Otherwise, we've grown to associate on a comfortable level, once I realized that all he wanted was to get to know me, not to make fun of me. Then again I'm not INTP, so my opinion isn't quite what we're after.)

 

[knight in battle]

Any type that is a rule nazi, overly regimented, dictated by emotions, or given to excessive sensual stimulation usually wears me out.

Yikes. Now I understand why my INTP friend is irritated by my moments of childish silliness. Yes, I really dislike the arbitrary Nazi rule type, but I like rule enforcers when there are objective standards.

 

[knight in battle]

ESTJ's take the cake, tell you how to eat, and tell you your bad once u eat it.

Disecting ESFJ's belief systems is good fun, but ESTJ's argue logic with hard body language, and they are without doubt.

ISFP's are a danger to INTP in a different way, but not an issue in the herd like the ESTJ who may attempt to logically convince the herd to run off the cliff and succeed. ISFPs will slowly envelope your soul with darkness without your knowing.

I would advocate an alliance of INTPs with ENTJs to combat the SJ specifically ESTJ threat. You know the ENTJ's get pissed at ESTJ's for stealing their limelight.
All we would need is a simple system, with a faked leader(ENTJ) of mystical proportions to come to traditions aid. Then have the ENTJ champion a bunch of stuff they like, then tell everyone to take a test(MBTI), with a mandate that states, anyone who test as an INTP will be recongized as such and that These individuals(INTPS) know stuff and their input should be encouraged and listened to.
lol

Your analysis is completely compelling and helpful. I do enjoy my ESTJ friend. I've noticed that he increases exponentially in his respect for me the more I make explicit decisions contrary to his requests/demands. And his level of respect for me does not tend to decrease. I like his time-oriented mentality, as I also like punctuality in social interactions.

I have one friend who may be ESFJ (or ENFJ), and I, too, enjoy picking apart his belief system, although I, as an INF, tend just to say nothing unless I am ensured a harmonious outcome. Usually he is impressed whenever I come up with novel exceptions to his ethical/self-actualizing pronouncements (i.e., his "should" statements). His respect toward me then increases to a level of granting me celebrity status. So I usually shut up, so I don't have to endure being placed on an impossible pedestal.

I fail to understand the ESTJ as a "threat". Perhaps I simply have no concept of Ti or Ne. Is it because they are unflinching in the presence of INTP reasonings? I have a friend who is INTP, and he doesn't seem to know how to interact with our ESTJ friend, even though they both obviously love video games. My ESTJ friend doesn't seem to like my INTP friend, but my INTP friend seems to enjoy hanging out with him but can't seem to take the initiative to do so. Meanwhile, my INTP friend seems to take initiative for contact with a variety of friends. This is deeply paradoxical to me, because I do not have the same social tenacity as he.

I think one of my distant friends is ISFP. An artist. Good storyteller. Sometimes "dark". I find him sometimes very harsh and insistent toward certain individuals, but he is generally quite congenial and friendly around me. I seem to "see" the depth of his being and can take occasionally into his nonverbalized personal value system of epic proportions, interact with his inner world. I absolutely love the way he dreams of a fantastical world of justice. Very George Lucas-like. I thoroughly enjoy our mystical, intuitive moments of play. I thoroughly enjoy his inability to understand me.

I also enjoy one religious person who is ENTJ. Definitely Fieldmarshall material. Everyone pays attention to his logistical instruction and command. He definitely irritates me with his bossiness. Everyone seems absolutely fearful of crossing him, but he is simply incapable of play the power game with me, because I deal with him as an equal who argues my case. Other than that, I hardly think that an ENTJ is ever irritating - they're always rule-oriented. The most they'll do is kick me out of an organization.

 

[Jelly Rev]

ESTJ's belief there is a right way, and they have it. The only way to appeal through them is through authority.
ENTJ's will take input, as long as its correct, wasting their time with some stupid idea will piss them off though.

ISFPs are dangerous to INTPs bc the INTP may percieve them to be deeper in an N way, mistaking them for an NF.
As the ISFP may dress artsy bc its part of them and they want to display it, to sensorize themselves, they are in the world trying to give it flavor. the always delightful INFP on the other hand has something more internal, an internal conflict trying to sort out internal values. An INTP may percieve this artsyness as INFP styled depth when it is not.

 

[crippli]

ISFPs are dangerous to INTPs bc the INTP may percieve them to be deeper in an N way, mistaking them for an NF.
As the ISFP may dress artsy bc its part of them and they want to display it, to sensorize themselves, they are in the world trying to give it flavor. the always delightful INFP on the other hand has something more internal, an internal conflict trying to sort out internal values. An INTP may percieve this artsyness as INFP styled depth when it is not.

So the danger is that the INTP may be wrong? That they are fooled?

It would seem to me that between art and values, the former would give the least headache?

 

[snafupants]

Yikes. Now I understand why my INTP friend is irritated by my moments of childish silliness. Yes, I really dislike the arbitrary Nazi rule type, but I like rule enforcers when there are objective standards.

Yeah that double standard also pisses me off. If you live and die by your own OCD personality disorder rules then we can probably get on. I was actually thinking of a composite character - the Soup Nazi and my grad school teacher - when I wrote that. Damn academia! Oh, god I'm losing it.
Hedonism just bothers me in that what do you really have to show for your life if you live it with your eyes rolled back in exquisite delight? You know? It's like this guy helped all these people in Central America, that gal wrote a novel, and then Tim over there got high...what?

To each her own I guess, I just don't like staring at squandered talent. It unsettles me on a pretty deep level. Sort of disgusting.

 

[knight in battle]

Maybe ISFP would be my best guess and he's become more extroverted...

I don't know about him suddenly cutting loose. He seems really loyal and steady paced and academically he's doing well as far as I know.

The loyalty/steady-paced aspect sounds more like an INFJ. INFJ's are sometimes mistaken as extroverts when in familiar company. But the reality is that they're just expending their social energy when they get the chance for socializing.

I'm often type as INFJ, and I do "suddenly cut loose" when I've decided on fundamental changes to my friendships, behaviors, or goals.

 

[knight in battle]

It seems that the objection here is the mutual inability for ESTJ's and INTP's to "get at" each other. As stated, ESTJs are convinced by appeal to authority. INTPs simply do not appeal to authority but to intellectual superiority and thus do not think along the lines of authority, unless if they're religious. This is ironic, because my INTP friend is concerned about morality and propriety quite a bit (when he's not busy talking about movies and philosophical ideas).

So while they are both Thinkers, they seem to have very different mindsets. I can readily understand why ESTJs could not receive much enjoyment from INTPs, as the INTPs I know tends to be rather withdrawn and nonverbal in ways that would appeal to extroverts and SJs. Whether in philosophy or psychology, the INTP seems to care more about brevity and technical things. INTPs are also not personally associational as compared to their NF cousins.

 

[thelithiumcat]

My mother's an ESFJ. She just isn't on my wavelength. Often I will say something and either she will completely miss the point or she'll take offence to something, a reaction which was completely unintended given that I'll be trying to have a fairly emotionless, logical discussion with her.

My dad's an ISTJ and he's all right. I get along with him much more but there are still some things we just don't click on. Being an ISTJ, he's very good at getting things done and, well, to him I don't appear to do anything much at all.

I find it odd that, although with many extroverted types I know, mostly ESFx, I am completely different to them but they seem to like talking to me. Can't fathom why because I make an effort to avoid them. They do tend to throw themselves in for a discussion with me sometimes, but whether that's just them going with social rules, that say they should be nice to and talk to everyone, or not isn't clear.

 

[DrSketchpad]

Perhaps our INTP personalities are are result of our parents?

A defense mechanisum maybe?

My Dad's an INTJ and I agree

 

[introverted_thinker]

My mother's an ESFJ. She just isn't on my wavelength. Often I will say something and either she will completely miss the point or she'll take offence to something, a reaction which was completely unintended given that I'll be trying to have a fairly emotionless, logical discussion with her.

My dad's an ISTJ and he's all right. I get along with him much more but there are still some things we just don't click on. Being an ISTJ, he's very good at getting things done and, well, to him I don't appear to do anything much at all.

I find it odd that, although with many extroverted types I know, mostly ESFx, I am completely different to them but they seem to like talking to me. Can't fathom why because I make an effort to avoid them. They do tend to throw themselves in for a discussion with me sometimes, but whether that's just them going with social rules, that say they should be nice to and talk to everyone, or not isn't clear.

I'm like you; Mum-ESFJ, Dad-ISTJ. My mother and I seem to be having fights more often, we disagree on quite a lot. She will go into rages about minute details, which is really annoying.

I get on better with my dad. He's a physics teacher, so we can have really good discussions. However, he is exasperated by my naivete about the real world and my disorganization. He lectured me for an hour yesterday about what to do if I have a car accident.

 

[introverted_thinker]

It seems that the objection here is the mutual inability for ESTJ's and INTP's to "get at" each other. As stated, ESTJs are convinced by appeal to authority. INTPs simply do not appeal to authority but to intellectual superiority and thus do not think along the lines of authority, unless if they're religious. This is ironic, because my INTP friend is concerned about morality and propriety quite a bit (when he's not busy talking about movies and philosophical ideas).

So while they are both Thinkers, they seem to have very different mindsets. I can readily understand why ESTJs could not receive much enjoyment from INTPs, as the INTPs I know tends to be rather withdrawn and nonverbal in ways that would appeal to extroverts and SJs. Whether in philosophy or psychology, the INTP seems to care more about brevity and technical things. INTPs are also not personally associational as compared to their NF cousins.

I also think INTP's have more of an appreciation for the "weird." If I make a really dark, sexual joke, the ISTJ's and ESTJ's I know look anxious, or give me a disgusted look.