What are your opinions on people who make multiple accounts to troll or harass people?

[onesteptwostep]

I don't think we have this issue on intpf, but I've seen plenty of alternative accounts being caught red handed in trying to steer the conversation on messaging boards.

Do you think this is immoral or stupid? What goes on in the mind of these people? Should they have the right to do make alts to express what they wish to achieve?

As a society, what should be the limit on anonomyous messaging?

There's a quote I've been thinking lately, that "the truth is beyond the text".

As Wittegenstein famously said, "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

 

[EndogenousRebel]

How valid is their reason for wanting to do so? Are they trying to figure something out from curiosity?

There is inquiry, then there is pettiness.

I can't put myself in the frame of mind as such person. It's pretty much harmless in the short-term. At the same time, their probably a loser if they are just doing it to harrass people. Imagine creating different identities to avoid confrontation or artificially boost how you're perceived on an already anonymous identity.

It's definitely pathological unless there is a specific goal that can be reached that ends the behavior. It gives me a sense of voyeurism and an inferiority complex. And that says a lot because usually it's hard to tell the difference between inferiority and superiority complexes.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I talk to trolls the same way I talk to normal people, and hence they never say anything to me that would be trollish.
Because trolling is two way street.
So the only thing that bothers me when people are inconsistent.
But I used to work where people could not agree on the basic math and date of the day.
So I guess I am immune to this. It still sent me into a spin hearing that these people exist, but they exist in real life.
Trolling in life is worse than on computer screen.
One you can ignore. The other you have to navigate like pirate of foggy seas.

 

[ZenRaiden]

As Wittegenstein famously said, "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

I love this quote, but I think today its a different world. I think what Wittgenstein meant was that experiences don't always translate to real life.
You can talk about love to someone, but you cannot say much about it that hits hard as the real thing.
Kind of like this.....

Fortunately we have memes that can explain things words cannot.

 

[onesteptwostep]

What Wittgenstein meant by that was that understanding sometimes cannot be grasped through text but only through the process of understanding itself. He believed that a lot of philosophical errors were made in the past because we kept trying to explain in text a certain understanding about something. Sometimes speech itself distorts truth. In someways, silence is acceptable as truth itself.

 

[scorpiomover]

I don't think we have this issue on intpf,

IME, we just did. Kora had to ban him.

What goes on in the mind of these people?

I would imagine that some think they're saving the world, by harassing "the evil people".
Some are likely just having what they think is "harmless fun".

Should they have the right to do make alts to express what they wish to achieve?

That depends. Should people have the right to circumvent the law to achieve what they believe is social justice?

As a society, what should be the limit on anonomyous messaging?

To make an account, you need an email. As long as you can get a new email from Google without proving your identity with ID, you can easily make as many new accounts as you want. So what exactly do you want to stop? People getting free emails from Microsoft, Google, etc, without providing ID? Next you'll be suggesting that people shouldn't be allowed to vote without ID.

 

[ZenRaiden]

To make an account, you need an email. As long as you can get a new email from Google without proving your identity with ID, you can easily make as many new accounts as you want. So what exactly do you want to stop? People getting free emails from Microsoft, Google, etc, without providing ID? Next you'll be suggesting that people shouldn't be allowed to vote without ID.

Yes, but here is my thinking now..... if we do something wrong knowing the consequence fall out is wrong, then we are acting knowing full well that we are committed to do wrong and hurt someone.

But here is the thing, just because someone seems to be doing something wrong does not mean they think the thing they are necessarily doing has bad consequence.
So if someone does something "wrong" but it does not have bad consequence but actually positive outcome, the "wrong" is "right".
This may kind of seem relativistic, but if what I do seems right to me - being anonymous is not important, other than avoid the part where people say "that is wrong don't do it".
So in lot of situations kind of intuitively know, just because they break some rule does not mean they actually did something wrong.
Kind of like say people who are delivering baby usually cross the speed limit.

 

[Black Rose]

Twitter used to have a verification system in place and proper moderation.

It was a big place so this was necessary.

Smaller places need less because people just get along when mobs don't mob them.

Security systems are important but also not all people will be in a place with a safe government.

It is simply a matter of what the purpose of the internet site is for. Not everyone wants the internet to become a nudist beach.

 

[BurnedOut]

To make an account, you need an email. As long as you can get a new email from Google without proving your identity with ID, you can easily make as many new accounts as you want. So what exactly do you want to stop? People getting free emails from Microsoft, Google, etc, without providing ID? Next you'll be suggesting that people shouldn't be allowed to vote without ID

I have always wondered what email-hosts they use. Most of the obscure are outright not allowed because the modern forums validate the domain name. If they try to use something popular, they would have to literally buy several SIM cards for each troll account. Even after doing all this, they can be easily be caught by any cybercrime investigation because getting SIM cards require lots of documentation and identity verification. Dark Web email hosts do not work as intended and most of the garbage found there is nothing but a scam. No email clients work reliably and those who do are immediately flagged as spam by the relevant email providers.

That begs the question if trolling is an organized activity because there is not much incentive for any person to troll someone online and get banned and lose that privilege everywhere they happen to be caught. It takes too much time and energy and frankly even $$. Imagine trolling someone while keeping in mind to not get banned or caught which is the antithesis of trolling. Now the trolls AnimeKitty talks about probably are found on archaic forums without any kind of validation procedure for users or shitty mods or a combination of all. Even if that is the case, I don't know if there are really such old-ass forums out there no less filled with trolls. Every forum who survived the '10s ended up using something like XenForo which seems to be very well made and high quality

 

[scorpiomover]

Yes, but here is my thinking now..... if we do something wrong knowing the consequence fall out is wrong, then we are acting knowing full well that we are committed to do wrong and hurt someone.

But here is the thing, just because someone seems to be doing something wrong does not mean they think the thing they are necessarily doing has bad consequence.
So if someone does something "wrong" but it does not have bad consequence but actually positive outcome, the "wrong" is "right".
This may kind of seem relativistic, but if what I do seems right to me - being anonymous is not important, other than avoid the part where people say "that is wrong don't do it".
So in lot of situations kind of intuitively know, just because they break some rule does not mean they actually did something wrong.

Yes. Morals can actually get quite complex, and thus require a lot of thinking about situations in advance. But quite often, people don't. For instance, some people in the UK attacked a child doctor (paediatrician), because it sounds like pedo (short for paedophile).

Kind of like say people who are delivering baby usually cross the speed limit.

That was common in films. But usually, you just call an ambulance for that one.

But I do know of a different case where what you said would have made sense. My brother had to drive his ex to hospital at high speed, because she had a tumour the size of a grapefruit that was just about to burst. Fortunately, he was in the army and had been trained to drive at high speed without killing anyone. So he could manage it.

 

[scorpiomover]

I have always wondered what email-hosts they use.

Gmail gives any 18-year-old an email. They don't even ask for proof of name. So someone could make 1,000 gmail accounts if they wanted.

If they try to use something popular, they would have to literally buy several SIM cards for each troll account. Even after doing all this, they can be easily be caught by any cybercrime investigation because getting SIM cards require lots of documentation and identity verification.

Sounds like you are talking about 2FA (2-Factor Authentication), i.e. when the site sends you a text to verify it's you.

In the UK, it seems pretty difficult to get a phone without ID like a passport. But not every country in the world may be as strict as the UK about things like this.

Also, on TV and the news, it seems quite easy for terrorists to get a burner phone. One would think that the police would immediately be notified if a known terrorist buys a phone. But apparently not. So if terrorists can get a phone without having to prove ID, any troll probably could, and so a troll could have multiple phones.

Also, a lot of sites allow you to prove it is you, by receiving your authentication code via email. So then you don't need a phone to log in, even if you have one.

So it seems as if identification systems are not all they are cracked up to be.

Dark Web email hosts do not work as intended and most of the garbage found there is nothing but a scam. No email clients work reliably and those who do are immediately flagged as spam by the relevant email providers.

I've never used the Dark Web. So I wouldn't know about that. But they must be good at protecting people's identities while still allowing them to do all sorts, because otherwise, how would terrorists and drug dealers be able to instagram and snapchat their friends?

That begs the question if trolling is an organized activity because there is not much incentive for any person to troll someone online and get banned and lose that privilege everywhere they happen to be caught. It takes too much time and energy and frankly even $$. Imagine trolling someone while keeping in mind to not get banned or caught which is the antithesis of trolling.

You don't really need to "troll" anymore. These days, social media and internet forums are so full of people politicking for personal interests, it's almost as if half the world is trolling on the internet.

Now the trolls AnimeKitty talks about probably are found on archaic forums without any kind of validation procedure for users or shitty mods or a combination of all. Even if that is the case, I don't know if there are really such old-ass forums out there no less filled with trolls. Every forum who survived the '10s ended up using something like XenForo which seems to be very well made and high quality

I looked up XenForo. It's written in PHP and MySQL. People use PHP and MySQL because they're free, and almost any idiot with zero idea about security could use it. However, I've seen a LOT of PHP code that is incredibly verbose and very difficult to diagnose.

I was even asked to fix a site with PHP and MySQL, that was blocked by Google. Turned out they had a very, very sneaky PHP hack that would collect clients credit card details and email them to somewhere in Russia. Only saving grace for the website's owner, was that he had never gotten around to accepting money online, and so there were no credit cards to email.

Sadly, internet security is still such a joke, that there's actually a profession called "cybersecurity" now.

 

[Black Rose]

I think it is just a matter of technicality.

If you know how to do it then it is about motive.

High-intelligence people do not focus on trolling unless they get really mad a someone and those who just want to troll do so on only a few individuals.

Yes, the internet is full of people who "troll" but then it makes it hard to just block half the people on the internet from using the internet.

I think that so far the Facebook experiment with the metaverse has been a failure. But Microsoft is professional so they will have a better metaverse than Facebook soon.

 

[birdsnestfern]

I remember we had someone named Shai Gar that got banned early for what they did. I'm grateful when Mods do ban them.
It feels like they enjoy making people suffer and everything said is propaganda with the intent to belittle.

 

[ZenRaiden]

That was common in films. But usually, you just call an ambulance for that one.

Its common in films because it happens in real life.
When someone is pushing a baby out and the car can get there even 5 minutes earlier it can mean the baby gets delivered with a specialist doctor, instead of dropping on a seat. I think we tend to forget reality is often wilder than movies.

But I do know of a different case where what you said would have made sense. My brother had to drive his ex to hospital at high speed, because she had a tumour the size of a grapefruit that was just about to burst. Fortunately, he was in the army and had been trained to drive at high speed without killing anyone. So he could manage it.

Yep, I can see that happen. Ambulance is convenient where you have someone who cannot move, but the moment the person can move, ambulance loses its meaning unless they have no one to help them.

Yes. Morals can actually get quite complex, and thus require a lot of thinking about situations in advance. But quite often, people don't. For instance, some people in the UK attacked a child doctor (paediatrician), because it sounds like pedo (short for paedophile).

I am thinking kind of like would not attack a pedo person anyway?
So is it moral to attack a pedo person?
Because I remember watching a movie where they literally tried killing a guy who was blamed pedo. Of course he was not, but the mob did not know that.
So morals are indeed funny when people don't think stuff through.

 

[BurnedOut]

In the UK, it seems pretty difficult to get a phone without ID like a passport. But not every country in the world may be as strict as the UK about things like this.

Also, on TV and the news, it seems quite easy for terrorists to get a burner phone. One would think that the police would immediately be notified if a known terrorist buys a phone. But apparently not. So if terrorists can get a phone without having to prove ID, any troll probably could, and so a troll could have multiple phones.

I have never seen burner phones getting sold here and getting your hands on an anon SIM is very expensive. Not to mention those SIMs are registered to people outside the country which makes it easy to flag them once again. Again, 2FA is mandatory on all popular social media so any large scale trolling can be identified unless the employees of the app themselves are bribed (looking at you gormints).

I looked up XenForo. It's written in PHP and MySQL. People use PHP and MySQL because they're free, and almost any idiot with zero idea about security could use it. However, I've seen a LOT of PHP code that is incredibly verbose and very difficult to diagnose.

PHP is just as good as JavaScript or pretty much anything unless we need realtime performance which is not the case in forums. Writing non-secure code is still easy in any language

 

[Cognisant]

I don't think we have this issue on intpf, but I've seen plenty of alternative accounts being caught red handed in trying to steer the conversation on messaging boards.

Do you think this is immoral or stupid? What goes on in the mind of these people? Should they have the right to do make alts to express what they wish to achieve?