Were Your High School Experiences Similar?

[Stirner]

To be blunt, I'm junior in High School and I'm 15. Ever since I could remember, I've been uninterested in socializing with others; however, I usually did socialize because I didn't want anybody to think that there was something wrong with me. Since age eleven, I learned not to care about what others think. After all, this is my life and not theirs.

However, because I choose to read books (usually entry-level philosophy and fiction (Camus, Stirner, Kerouac)) and ignore others, my teachers are starting to think that something is wrong with me. One even recommended that I get tested for antisocial personality disorder; long story short, I no longer respect said teacher. Yet, my reputation (or lack thereof) is beginning to precede me among the faculty and staff at this school. They think I'm depressed (not true), homicidal (depends on the person), or suffer from some other mental illness (again, not true -- besides, one cannot be diagnosed with most of the serious mental illnesses (personality disorders) until the age of 18). They (my teachers) contacted my parents and complained about my "lack of willingness to socialize, learn the names of classmates, and participate in [my] classes".

Frankly, my parents don't care. They know how I am and know that I just have peculiar priorities for my age. I've always said that my first determination was to become a doctor. Everything else comes second.

Now that's my background. It's all the information I think I need to provide to ask this question: why do teachers have the right to be concerned with my behavior?

 

[ApostateAbe]

My experiences were not closely analogous, though I had plenty of troubles in high school. Teachers are concerned with your behavior because that is their job. If you fail your courses, then it goes on your teachers' career records. They have a right to it at the expense of your rights just because you are still a minor, and you don't have rights.

Regardless of who has what rights, it is strongly in your interest to take it like a bitch, read the books, do the assignments, and pass the tests with high marks. It will affect your ability to choose your college, your college major, your job salary, and your living situation for the rest of your life. You still have two years left, so I strongly suggest that you use them wisely--they are your last two years of high school, and they will follow you for the rest of your life.

 

[EditorOne]

Back up two steps. Is it really a question of "rights?" Isn't it more like you just don't want them trying to fix you when you aren't broken? And resentment at being judged lacking in some presumed virtue to which you, the INTP, attach no value? And additional resentment at their intrusive behavior?

Always, always, always it is a good idea to ask yourself if there is anything within your ability to execute that can remove or reduce the problem. Why? Because it's easier for you to take and control an action than it is for you to influence the behavior of others.

Give them the benefit of the doubt on their motives: They are concerned because, superficially or not, some of the behaviors we exhibit as young INTPs mimic the symptoms of true dysfunction. Teachers are supposed to keep an eye out for that; generally speaking, anyone involved in nurturing, even at the high school level, might be concerned about some of our traits, especially if they are pursued as militantly as you give off a faint aura of doing.

You can deal with this on several levels, simultaneously, and you can pick from several suggestions.

The first one sounds stupid, even though it does work: Smile more often. If you can't bring yourself to do that in the absence of actual humor or good feeling, wear one of those stupid yellow happy face buttons. This tactic deflects concern from people who rely on appearances to make judgments about you.

The second one is for actual authority figures like teachers who either make a phone call home or want to sit you down for a talk. Type up a very brief description of Myer-Briggs and one of the boilerplate descriptions of INTP. The heading on this 300-word explanation could be "I'm not broken. I'm supposed to be this way." The final sentence could be "Please treat me the way I'd like to be treated, not the way you'd like to be treated. We'll all be better off." Just hand it to them at the right moment and state plainly that "I find, at age 15, I'm better at writing than discussing this, so could you please take a moment and read this before we talk?"

The third level is to interact socially, but pick your spots so it's actually rewarding rather than punishing. The INTP paradigm is to have few friends, but good ones. They don't have to be INTP. They do, probably, have to either be what we'd call 'interesting' or, alternatively, they could be someone you simply have been around so long that you don't have to do a lot of heavy maintenance to keep a relationship going. You have core knowledge based on long association.

Fourth, find an activity at school that involves group effort. With any luck there will be something that is not hopelessly dreadful and painfully pointless. Having no idea what things you value, it is difficult to offer a specific suggestion. However, once you find it, stick with it and contribute as you find it possible to do so. Group activities have value in that the point of associating with others is to accomplish something, not just socialize to prove you can. The socializing is a harmless byproduct. Even INTPs come with genetic hardwiring that finds group effort leading to positive outcomes a rewarding activity. You are 15; you won't believe that until you experience it, so maybe just give it a try. A footnote to this is that 90 percent of success in such efforts is just being there from start to finish. Odd as it sounds, INTPs are suited to do stuff you wouldn't normally think about doing, like equipment manager for a sports team or being part of the group that prepares stage backdrops and gathers set dressing for school plays. You get to be there and be quite useful but not in an attention-getting way.

Hope that helps. I do remember 15. Not a whole lot of fun. For better or for worse, since INTPs hadn't been "invented" yet, I simply thought all my characteristics meant I WAS broken and did my best to fit in with everyone else. You are, by virtue of knowing what you are, light years ahead. However, you still have to learn how to move along in a world that really at heart doesn't give a damn about you, so dealing with your present situation is probably a good way to get some insight into what that's going to be like. It is annoying now; it becomes more than annoying in an employment situation where what someone perceives you to be is given more weight than what you really are.

 

[pjoa09]

oddballin' is natural and usual.

Just make sure that you don't wind yourself around something or get too much attention. Getting bad grades is a very evil loop.

 

[Jesse]

Accept the help. Trust me, being anti social 100% is not fun.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Isn't it healthy to somewhat socialize with others, though? Do you literally have no friends?

My high school experience is strange. I went from weird to popular to weird, and now I just hang with the drug/psychology/philosophy people. I can get along with a lot of people now, though. Even quite a few of the sporty, following-the-mass people. (I'm in 11th grade now.)

Being an introvert does not mean not having any social interaction at all, it just seems unhealthy to me.

 

[Stirner]

Back up two steps. Is it really a question of "rights?" Isn't it more like you just don't want them trying to fix you when you aren't broken? And resentment at being judged lacking in some presumed virtue to which you, the INTP, attach no value? And additional resentment at their intrusive behavior?

It probably is not a question of rights as much as I would like it to be. Since they are teachers, I guess they do have the right to be concerned about my behavior. However, to insinuate that I need some sort of psychiatric and emotional help is just... absurd and completely overstepping the professional line. When something is not broken, it doesn't need to fixed; it needs to be understood. If they even attempted to get to know me or have a sit down conversation with me prior to sending a letter to my parents and/or conversing among themselves, then I probably wouldn't have any problem with them.

Always, always, always it is a good idea to ask yourself if there is anything within your ability to execute that can remove or reduce the problem. Why? Because it's easier for you to take and control an action than it is for you to influence the behavior of others.

I'll converse with people when and if I find them interesting. Even if I do not find them interesting, I'll be polite and courteous to them and laugh at their unfunny jokes. However, I won't etch their name into my memory when I don't think it deserves to be there honestly.

Give them the benefit of the doubt on their motives: They are concerned because, superficially or not, some of the behaviors we exhibit as young INTPs mimic the symptoms of true dysfunction. Teachers are supposed to keep an eye out for that; generally speaking, anyone involved in nurturing, even at the high school level, might be concerned about some of our traits, especially if they are pursued as militantly as you give off a faint aura of doing.

Teachers should educate themselves on the different personality types and not assume that because a child is different that he automatically needs to be medicated or evaluated by a mental health professional. As I said above, if my teachers had attempted to get to know me, then I wouldn't have a problem with their intrusive behavior. Instead, they lumped me into a category of deranged and messed up individuals and that's truly wrong and more damaging to my psyche than my "unwillingness to socialize".

The first one sounds stupid, even though it does work: Smile more often. If you can't bring yourself to do that in the absence of actual humor or good feeling, wear one of those stupid yellow happy face buttons. This tactic deflects concern from people who rely on appearances to make judgments about you.

I usually can't bring myself to smile without adequate stimuli. The yellow button will just attract attention to myself, and I really do not want any more attention than I'm already receiving from the professionals.

The second one is for actual authority figures like teachers who either make a phone call home or want to sit you down for a talk. Type up a very brief description of Myer-Briggs and one of the boilerplate descriptions of INTP. The heading on this 300-word explanation could be "I'm not broken. I'm supposed to be this way." The final sentence could be "Please treat me the way I'd like to be treated, not the way you'd like to be treated. We'll all be better off." Just hand it to them at the right moment and state plainly that "I find, at age 15, I'm better at writing than discussing this, so could you please take a moment and read this before we talk?"

I'll make note of this suggestion. Thanks.

The third level is to interact socially, but pick your spots so it's actually rewarding rather than punishing. The INTP paradigm is to have few friends, but good ones. They don't have to be INTP. They do, probably, have to either be what we'd call 'interesting' or, alternatively, they could be someone you simply have been around so long that you don't have to do a lot of heavy maintenance to keep a relationship going. You have core knowledge based on long association.

That's my problem though. I don't find many other adolescents interesting. Those that I do find interesting usually go to different schools, despite living in a relative close proximity to me. This heavily reduces my ability to interact with them given the hectic nature of my daily schedule.

Fourth, find an activity at school that involves group effort. With any luck there will be something that is not hopelessly dreadful and painfully pointless. Having no idea what things you value, it is difficult to offer a specific suggestion. However, once you find it, stick with it and contribute as you find it possible to do so. Group activities have value in that the point of associating with others is to accomplish something, not just socialize to prove you can. The socializing is a harmless byproduct. Even INTPs come with genetic hardwiring that finds group effort leading to positive outcomes a rewarding activity. You are 15; you won't believe that until you experience it, so maybe just give it a try. A footnote to this is that 90 percent of success in such efforts is just being there from start to finish. Odd as it sounds, INTPs are suited to do stuff you wouldn't normally think about doing, like equipment manager for a sports team or being part of the group that prepares stage backdrops and gathers set dressing for school plays. You get to be there and be quite useful but not in an attention-getting way.

My school strictly offers after school clubs. Since I get out of school early to volunteer at the local hospital and shadow one of the top ten neurologists in the country, this really is not possible. I do interact at the hospital though, but that's mostly with researchers or other volunteers whom are all adults and capable of maintaining an interesting conversation. Occasionally, I'll help out and do the things that nobody else wants to do. Ironically, those activities usually interest me the most.

Hope that helps. I do remember 15. Not a whole lot of fun. For better or for worse, since INTPs hadn't been "invented" yet, I simply thought all my characteristics meant I WAS broken and did my best to fit in with everyone else. You are, by virtue of knowing what you are, light years ahead. However, you still have to learn how to move along in a world that really at heart doesn't give a damn about you, so dealing with your present situation is probably a good way to get some insight into what that's going to be like. It is annoying now; it becomes more than annoying in an employment situation where what someone perceives you to be is given more weight than what you really are.

I appreciate your post. Being young and being an INTP is hard, so I'm happy to find a community which can relate to my plight. I don't appear to be abnormal or harmful in any way to myself, mostly because I am aware of why I am. In an academic setting, I'm usually more open. However, High School isn't a real academic setting when teachers want you to socialize more than they want you to learn.

oddballin' is natural and usual.

Just make sure that you don't wind yourself around something or get too much attention. Getting bad grades is a very evil loop.

I'm not trying to get attention at all. I don't understand why being quiet is attracting so much attention, know what I mean?

As for my grades, they are fine. I've only had one incidence of receiving bad grades but that was mostly my own fault. I was at a school and I didn't completely act in accordance with most of its rules, which ended up effecting my grades when they decided that "wearing a jacket in class" is grounds for receiving a zero for the day.

Isn't it healthy to somewhat socialize with others, though? Do you literally have no friends?

My high school experience is strange. I went from weird to popular to weird, and now I just hang with the drug/psychology/philosophy people. I can get along with a lot of people now, though. Even quite a few of the sporty, following-the-mass people. (I'm in 11th grade now.)

Being an introvert does not mean not having any social interaction at all, it just seems unhealthy to me.

I have acquaintances, not friends (assuming we define friend as "somebody I hang out with"). The internet has become an unhealthy outlet for me when it comes to forming friendships, but I find that most people are more interesting on the internet simply because of the lies they tell.

For me though, being introverted means just that. I internalize conversations, etc. It’s the joy of being 98% introverted according to the MBTI. I also wouldn't go as far to say that not interacting with many people my own age is unhealthy. In fact, I think that's one of those things that ultimately depends on the person. If somebody is fine with minimal-to-no interaction, then they should be allowed to continue on that path.

 

[Chimera]

17 years old here (going into my senior year), soooo speaking from recent experience...
First of all, Editor has some really sound advice...I don't personally have as much faith in MBTI typology to give it to a teacher as an ultimate answer, but maybe it would help you get your foot in the door.

I completely understand your distaste of adolescents your age...trust me. I haven't willingly "hung out" with anyone my age outside of school for years. They mostly seem very canned, with either obnoxious fake personalities or genuine dull personalities, obsessed with all the mundane teenage things that make my skin crawl. Sound familiar?
Luckily for you, it seems like you have an outlet at the hospital where you can dig up some intelligent conversation. For me it's always been online friendships; not that I'm devaluing those, but there's something to be said for physically being near the people you intellectually like.

Anyway.

Like you, I'm extremely introverted as well. I can survive and even enjoy social interaction, in the right context, but my preference will always be solitude. It takes a conscious effort for me to open my mouth and speak in most cases (but it's an effort I make.) However, I've never had any issues with being seen as "maladjusted" or "dangerous" by my teachers...as far as I know. Perhaps it's because I'm female and harmless. (I'm rolling my eyes, since you can't see.)
I prefer to think that it's because I'm quick to establish good relations with my teachers...they're the adults of the school realm, so I tend to immediately gravitate towards striking up conversation with them rather than classmates. Intelligent conversation just seems to come a lot easier. Yes, it may get you called a "teacher's pet" on occasion, but who cares? It's interesting conversation. And, as an added bonus, if you get on particularly good terms with one or two teachers, then most threat of being singled out for being "antisocial" dissipates...they're gossipy creatures, and it turns into a teacher's word against another teacher's, rather than them just spinning tales about how you're too antisocial to even smile.
The fact that you say you seem to have a reputation for being antisocial at school makes me wonder if there's a record about your introverted tendencies with your guidance office. (Not sure if it's called the same thing, or if you even have one...I'm just assuming most schools do. You know, guidance counselors, things like that.) If you're noticeably quiet enough to frequently warrant teacher intervention, it's entirely possible... Hmm.

Anyway again.

People your age aren't going to improve dramatically any time soon. Even people years older than you, for the most part, won't be enough to satisfy your social elitism. Yes, elitism. I'm guilty of the same thing. For whatever reason, they're not up to your standards to interact with...too shallow, too dull, too uneducated, am I right? Well, for some people it's true...but if you're at all interested in socializing with your peers, even just to allay suspicion, then you'll have to make a conscious effort to find worth in a few people past their packaged-and-processed surface...but if you simply don't care to, which I suspect you don't, then there's not much I can say that will change your mind. But who knows, maybe there's someone worth talking to who's ignoring you because you're giving them reason to. "They should see past my antisocial exterior and recognize the brilliance beneath!" ....well, no, that's not how it works.
If anything, just keep in mind that there will be sheep no matter where you go, and the sooner you figure out a decent way to act among them without attracting negative attention, the better off you'll be.

Just my $0.02, of course.
​

 

[Puffy]

"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high-powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die"

21, but I can remember (; . I can't say I was very educated at "high school" but I definitely relate to the introversion. However, I found things changed within a few years (from 15) and I became a lot more social - extraverted, whatever you like to call it - as DT implied. I'm still introverted, I very much like living alone, etc, but I think with age - especially when you come to live independantly - you come to acknowledge life isn't something you will always do on your own.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

I understand that most other adolescents our age seem really obnoxious, but really, not all of them are like that. Be open to meeting new people. It's kind of arrogant to think you're some sort of supernormal adolescent that is too intelligent for any interaction.

I don't like 'hanging out' that much either, it's kind of awkward to me, but I still really enjoy talking to people who I can relate to and such.

 

[Aramea]

I was socially dysfunctional in HS. The band geeks wouldn't even have me. My brother kept getting questions about why I was so "angry" (I wasn't). I just brought books I wanted to read to school and said "fuck it" and got B's and C's. Finally, by my senior year I saw the writing on the wall - I was going to have to take care of myself very soon. I forced myself to take Drama and Speech, which were as excruciating as I thought they would be but it was a start. I tried to get into the sorority thing in college, but I was unsuccessful there (imagine that). It took me until late 20's to feel like I was making real progress socially, but I am still 'off' to this day (I am 47). It does get easier but it is work.

I am not a very good person to advise on school since it has been so long for me and I don't know how it works today. Seems like you can't take a shit at school without someone making sure it came out OK. My method of planting my face in The Illiad all day at school as teachers instructed the rest of the class would probably not fly. As distasteful as it sounds, if you don't want yourself on all kinds of weird meds you are probably best off to play their silly games and get the hell out as soon as you can. The Millennial generation is quite into conformity so you better get used to slipping into an alter-ego to deal with the world.

You should read the posts on INTPs and their tendency to be chameleons in public so they can navigate the world.

 

[Fukyo]

To be blunt, I'm junior in High School and I'm 15. Ever since I could remember, I've been uninterested in socializing with others; however, I usually did socialize because I didn't want anybody to think that there was something wrong with me. Since age eleven, I learned not to care about what others think. After all, this is my life and not theirs.

One even recommended that I get tested for antisocial personality disorder; long story short, I no longer respect said teacher. Yet, my reputation (or lack thereof) is beginning to precede me among the faculty and staff at this school. They think I'm depressed (not true), homicidal (depends on the person), or suffer from some other mental illness (again, not true -- besides, one cannot be diagnosed with most of the serious mental illnesses (personality disorders) until the age of 18). They (my teachers) contacted my parents and complained about my "lack of willingness to socialize, learn the names of classmates, and participate in [my] classes".

Antisocial personality disorder doesn't have anything to with how social you are. Either your teacher is ignorant or there's more about your behavior you're not mentioning.

 

[Chimera]

Antisocial personality disorder doesn't have anything to with how social you are. Either your teacher is ignorant or there's more about your behavior you're not mentioning.

I'm leaning toward "the teacher is ignorant".
In my limited experience, teachers can be quick to diagnose students based on little knowledge...too many school shootings, bomb threats, teacher deaths, etc.. I'm sure they think they're being proactive and careful.
Or maybe Stirn is truly acting in an antisocial-personality-disorderly fashion, I don't know.
​

 

[Stirner]

17 years old here (going into my senior year), soooo speaking from recent experience...
First of all, Editor has some really sound advice...I don't personally have as much faith in MBTI typology to give it to a teacher as an ultimate answer, but maybe it would help you get your foot in the door.

Yeah, I was thinking about his fine suggestion a bit over the weekend. While it is great in theory, it probably wouldn't serve much use in practice.

"What is this, INTP?"

"It's a description of my personality type. If you read it, I'd think you find it extremely helpful when it comes to understanding me and why I am..."

"...So you found a messed up community of individuals that you can identify with, and want me to read this? No thanks."

As I said, I can't envision one possible scenario where it goes over well. I do like the idea though. If I had an issue with, say, a psychology teacher, it would probably go over much better.

I completely understand your distaste of adolescents your age...trust me. I haven't willingly "hung out" with anyone my age outside of school for years. They mostly seem very canned, with either obnoxious fake personalities or genuine dull personalities, obsessed with all the mundane teenage things that make my skin crawl. Sound familiar?

Sounds awfully familiar. Are you sure you aren't me a few years into the future, Chimera? Honestly though, when conversation is centered on MTV Shows and gossip, I can't force myself to be interested or participate. When Sarte said, "Hell is other people", I imagine that he had our generation in mind!

Luckily for you, it seems like you have an outlet at the hospital where you can dig up some intelligent conversation. For me it's always been online friendships; not that I'm devaluing those, but there's something to be said for physically being near the people you intellectually like.

The hospital is a wonderful outlet, but I think that goes without saying. When you are young and already attracting the attention of some top-flight doctors, intelligent conversation just flows; recently, I had a discussion with a biomedical researcher about autologous stem cell therapy to treat cardiac diseases. Fascinating stuff.

I wouldn't devalue internet relationships. I find a lot of people on the internet are more interesting than the adolescent folk I'm surrounded by. For all I know, I could be anonymously talking the kid who sits next to me in my second hour and not even know it (though, this is statistically unlikely). The anonymity, I think the experiment of 4chan proves, brings out are "true" personalities. Didn't Oscar Wilde say something about a man and a mask...? It's absolutely true.

Like you, I'm extremely introverted as well. I can survive and even enjoy social interaction, in the right context, but my preference will always be solitude. It takes a conscious effort for me to open my mouth and speak in most cases (but it's an effort I make.) However, I've never had any issues with being seen as "maladjusted" or "dangerous" by my teachers...as far as I know. Perhaps it's because I'm female and harmless. (I'm rolling my eyes, since you can't see.)

I probably misrepresented myself in my original and succeeding post. I can enjoy social interaction, like you, if it is in the correct context. If I've known somebody for awhile or been around them, I'll be more open with them and speak and joke. Is my preference still solitude? Sure, and it probably will always be. There's something to say about the company of a good book...

As a side note, it's a shame that (as a society) we look at certain genders as being more dangerous than others. There is nothing to stop a teenage girl from bringing a gun to school and shooting people, much like their is nothing stopping a teenage boy from doing the same. Gender stereotypes teach us that man = evil, woman = good though.

I prefer to think that it's because I'm quick to establish good relations with my teachers...they're the adults of the school realm, so I tend to immediately gravitate towards striking up conversation with them rather than classmates. Intelligent conversation just seems to come a lot easier. Yes, it may get you called a "teacher's pet" on occasion, but who cares? It's interesting conversation. And, as an added bonus, if you get on particularly good terms with one or two teachers, then most threat of being singled out for being "antisocial" dissipates...they're gossipy creatures, and it turns into a teacher's word against another teacher's, rather than them just spinning tales about how you're too antisocial to even smile.
The fact that you say you seem to have a reputation for being antisocial at school makes me wonder if there's a record about your introverted tendencies with your guidance office. (Not sure if it's called the same thing, or if you even have one...I'm just assuming most schools do. You know, guidance counselors, things like that.) If you're noticeably quiet enough to frequently warrant teacher intervention, it's entirely possible... Hmm.

I'd like to think I have a good report with my guidance counselor. He's an ISTJ, I think. However, he hasn't gotten involved with this whole situation (to my knowledge). His wife is one of my teachers, and she's actually the one who told me about what others teachers are saying about me. Suffice to say, I have a good relationship with her too. However, she doesn't that it's her place to get involved with gossip. She's against (or so she claims) talking about students unless you are bragging to another teacher.

"They should see past my antisocial exterior and recognize the brilliance beneath!" ....well, no, that's not how it works.

I'm not really like this. I'm more like, "you shouldn't generalize me as a member of society's legion of evil without actively trying to get to know me first". Presentation is everything unfortunately, and I probably don't present myself in the best of fashions when I'd rather leave others alone and be left alone myself.

I was socially dysfunctional in HS. The band geeks wouldn't even have me. My brother kept getting questions about why I was so "angry" (I wasn't). I just brought books I wanted to read to school and said "fuck it" and got B's and C's. Finally, by my senior year I saw the writing on the wall - I was going to have to take care of myself very soon. I forced myself to take Drama and Speech, which were as excruciating as I thought they would be but it was a start. I tried to get into the sorority thing in college, but I was unsuccessful there (imagine that). It took me until late 20's to feel like I was making real progress socially, but I am still 'off' to this day (I am 47). It does get easier but it is work.

...I tried taking a drama class last year. The class dejected me. When people couldn't memorize their lines or perform a skit without a serious face, I was disgusted. Why take a class if you aren't going to take it seriously?

By the way, I do get the "why are you so angry" questions from siblings.

I am not a very good person to advise on school since it has been so long for me and I don't know how it works today. Seems like you can't take a shit at school without someone making sure it came out OK. My method of planting my face in The Illiad all day at school as teachers instructed the rest of the class would probably not fly. As distasteful as it sounds, if you don't want yourself on all kinds of weird meds you are probably best off to play their silly games and get the hell out as soon as you can. The Millennial generation is quite into conformity so you better get used to slipping into an alter-ego to deal with the world.

Reading during classes doesn't fly in today's (American) class setting, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were cameras that monitored what shit came out of who's ass and whether or not if there is something wrong with it.

Antisocial personality disorder doesn't have anything to with how social you are. Either your teacher is ignorant or there's more about your behavior you're not mentioning.

That's why I don't respect the teacher that insinuated I had the disorder. If anything, the symptoms I described (and display) would more closely mimic schizoid, I would think. Chimera summed it up well:

I'm leaning toward "the teacher is ignorant".
In my limited experience, teachers can be quick to diagnose students based on little knowledge...too many school shootings, bomb threats, teacher deaths, etc.. I'm sure they think they're being proactive and careful.

As a tangent, what would be classified as anti-social behavior? I've always thought it would be behavior that disrespects society (i.e, public intoxication, etc. . .). Since I don't drink or experiment with drug paraphernalia, I'm not partaking in anti-social behavior, right?

 

[Chimera]

Yeah, I was thinking about his fine suggestion a bit over the weekend. While it is great in theory, it probably wouldn't serve much use in practice.

"What is this, INTP?"

"It's a description of my personality type. If you read it, I'd think you find it extremely helpful when it comes to understanding me and why I am..."

"...So you found a messed up community of individuals that you can identify with, and want me to read this? No thanks."

As I said, I can't envision one possible scenario where it goes over well. I do like the idea though. If I had an issue with, say, a psychology teacher, it would probably go over much better.

Heh, that's precisely the scenario I imagined. In theory it's good, but in actuality it would most likely turn out horrendously awkward, with only a slim chance of any feasible positive outcome...
​

Sounds awfully familiar. Are you sure you aren't me a few years into the future, Chimera?

You know, I was beginning to wonder... P:
​

Honestly though, when conversation is centered on MTV Shows and gossip, I can't force myself to be interested or participate. When Sarte said, "Hell is other people", I imagine that he had our generation in mind!

And of course, if you mentioned Sarte to most of them, you'd only get blank stares...
​

The hospital is a wonderful outlet, but I think that goes without saying. When you are young and already attracting the attention of some top-flight doctors, intelligent conversation just flows; recently, I had a discussion with a biomedical researcher about autologous stem cell therapy to treat cardiac diseases. Fascinating stuff.

You know, I'm genuinely curious how you got so involved in the medical community so early...my current academic interest lies in biology, but I'm only just getting my feet wet. Honestly if I heard someone in my school was studying under one of the top neurologists, I would be fascinated. Really though...how did you manage that?
​

I wouldn't devalue internet relationships. I find a lot of people on the internet are more interesting than the adolescent folk I'm surrounded by. For all I know, I could be anonymously talking the kid who sits next to me in my second hour and not even know it (though, this is statistically unlikely). The anonymity, I think the experiment of 4chan proves, brings out are "true" personalities. Didn't Oscar Wilde say something about a man and a mask...? It's absolutely true.

Oh, I have plenty of reverence for my online friends. They make up most of my social interaction, and that sits just fine with me...humans crave physical proximity by design though, and unfortunately that "flaw" can become a bit unbearable at times. And I both welcome and dread the day that I discover that the identity of someone I know "irl" is the same as one of my precious online friends...ugh, talk about awkward and thrilling.
​

As a side note, it's a shame that (as a society) we look at certain genders as being more dangerous than others. There is nothing to stop a teenage girl from bringing a gun to school and shooting people, much like their is nothing stopping a teenage boy from doing the same. Gender stereotypes teach us that man = evil, woman = good though.

In current society, perhaps...there are plenty of ancient stories which paint women as the face of evil though, and those are spread throughout the world. We are the deceivers, the manipulators, and the temptresses, after all. Unfortunately for you though, you're right--quiet, anti-social tendencies are typically labeled as "shy" for females and "sociopathic" for males.
​

I'd like to think I have a good report with my guidance counselor. He's an ISTJ, I think. However, he hasn't gotten involved with this whole situation (to my knowledge). His wife is one of my teachers, and she's actually the one who told me about what others teachers are saying about me. Suffice to say, I have a good relationship with her too. However, she doesn't that it's her place to get involved with gossip. She's against (or so she claims) talking about students unless you are bragging to another teacher.

Ah, well if you're on good terms with them both...would it be possible to ask one of them to intervene with the teachers who give you trouble? Seems like a better alternative than being harassed by overzealous teachers, even though they mean well...
​

I'm not really like this. I'm more like, "you shouldn't generalize me as a member of society's legion of evil without actively trying to get to know me first". Presentation is everything unfortunately, and I probably don't present myself in the best of fashions when I'd rather leave others alone and be left alone myself.

Ah, but are you extending the same courtesy to them?
And I'm not saying you need to suddenly turn into an extrovert...I'm not really into preaching hypocrisy, if I can help it. If you can deal with the consequences of being noticeably introverted in an extrovert-dominated world (for example, being picked on by teachers), then by all means, ignore everyone to your heart's content. And I say that with affection. ^-^
​

 

[EditorOne]

""What is this, INTP?"

"It's a description of my personality type. If you read it, I'd think you find it extremely helpful when it comes to understanding me and why I am..."

"...So you found a messed up community of individuals that you can identify with, and want me to read this? No thanks.""

Oh you of little faith!

First off, we're not a messed-up community, we are God's own prototype, as Puffy said. What's with the negative vibrations? How about some high self esteem instead of, implicit in the various comments, a feeling (damn your eyes for having feelings!) that any explanation is inadequate.

Second, there's three ways to communicate and I picked the one OP might possibly be most comfortable with, a written one. But people "learn" or absorb by reading, listening or doing, so it's entirely possible any teacher might be more comfortable with listening rather than reading. However, a lot of people who simply do not listen, or do not attach weight to what they hear, do attach weight to what they read. Go figure. I absorb all three ways, but I noticed that people I was supposed to be managing definitely tended toward one of the three rather than all three. Explain it to a teacher any way you want, but do explain it. The point of the exercise is to shift their thinking not to complete acceptance of the paradigm of personality types, but to plant the idea that "I'm not broken and I don't need to be fixed." The Jungian stuff is just fertilizer to help the idea grow. I'm willing to bet most teachers have tripped over Myers Briggs stuff at some point in their own career, and will at least have the idea of "plausible" planted in their head.

Believing the situation can be fully corrected in one stroke is probably not wise. It's more like dropping a speed limit on a dangerous road: Not everyone will adjust, but some adjustment will take place and the problem will not be as severe. Instead of thinking you're going to do a Columbine on them, and they'll be blamed, they'll instead think of you as merely eccentric.

The final point I'll make is that if it doesn't work, where are you worse off? You made a sincere effort to reach out to an authority figure. You can cite that down the road, to your credit, if misunderstandings and negative stereotyping by authority figures seriously mess up your future.

And if it doesn't work, we try something else. I'm assuming the point of the discussion is to ameliorate the situation, not just vent. Venting is good, but venting is better if change is produced, even if the change is a byproduct.

 

[digital angel]

I'm not sure about giving your teacher your personality type. Perhaps you could let your teacher know that you're introverted. Think about it and decide.

I don't know what your interests are but if there's a club like a science club or a language club, it might not be a bad idea to join. You just might like it. Remember, it's high school. Also, keep in mind that depending on what you want to do later on, you'll have college and maybe even graduate school.

 

[Vrecknidj]

You could always use high school as a chance to practice Extroversion. I didn't begin practicing until college.

 

[pjoa09]

Well to answer your question to my answer, by displaying your fairly intense desire for solitude while everyone is chatting makes you like a big red dot in a black background. You become a minority and an odd minority. You attract attention. Try being a bit maroon. The whole jacket thing also should worry other people. Though I don't see why you got a zero for wearing a jacket. Seems like where you live you should have been persecuted by now.

 

[Stirner]

Boy, where has the time gone ... I've been meaning to reply to this thread all week, but I haven't been able to!

And of course, if you mentioned Sarte to most of them, you'd only get blank stares...

Or Sade. Or Rousseau. Or Proudhon. Or Bakunin. Or Carducci. Really, mention anyone that doesn't exist much outside TV and expect to get blank stares. Unless, of course, an INTJ or INTP are present in the congregation you are addressing!

You know, I'm genuinely curious how you got so involved in the medical community so early...my current academic interest lies in biology, but I'm only just getting my feet wet. Honestly if I heard someone in my school was studying under one of the top neurologists, I would be fascinated. Really though...how did you manage that?

When I was eleven, my mother was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis (MS). If you didn't know already, it's a demylenating autoimmune disease of the central nervous system. I knew that I wanted to be a doctor (cardiovascular surgeon) when I was six, but I lacked a clear motivation for wanting to be one. Suffice to say, my mother's diagnosis of Multiple Sclerosis shifted my focus from the cardiovascular system to the central nervous system. Since then, I've been doing extensive reading (The Multiple Sclerosis Handbook, various college level Anatomy & Physiology textbooks, The Remarkable Story of Copaxone, to name a few books). Luckily, Big Pharma loves to hold programs to inform people of their drugs. They often have doctors speak at these programs. Usually the doctors are pretty prominent on the local or national level.

Being an INTP, I have a lot of questions and am always searching for truth. Thus, while at these programs, I would often introduce myself to the neurologists and ask them questions. I've been confused for a Medical School student numerous times, and have often been asked if I would be interested in doing a research rotation in several offices/clinics. However, when the doctors then asked me my age (15), they usually retracted their offers. One in particular, the one I am now volunteering under, didn't since he likes to teach and sees a lot of potential in me. He'll often make me perform tedious tasks around his office, catalog research, assist in the bio-engineering lab, etc. . .

In a nutshell, I just networked unintentionally. I never asked doctors questions or discussed theories with them and expected to open doors for myself. I wanted answers so I could move on to something else. Fortunately, the opportunities and the discussion I'm able to have is intellectually stimulating. Unfortunately, I'm not able to think of much else or really research anything else because my time is now monopolized. I hope that clears things up.

In current society, perhaps...there are plenty of ancient stories which paint women as the face of evil though, and those are spread throughout the world. We are the deceivers, the manipulators, and the temptresses, after all. Unfortunately for you though, you're right--quiet, anti-social tendencies are typically labeled as "shy" for females and "sociopathic" for males.

Yeah, I was talking about 'modern times'. I've found that if you try and discuss historical gender stereotypes and roles with the masses, that -- like when discussing philosophers/philosophy -- you'll get a lot of blank stares or the occasional, head-to-wall frustrating, "that's in the past, so it doesn't mean anything now in 2011" response.

Ah, but are you extending the same courtesy to them?
And I'm not saying you need to suddenly turn into an extrovert...I'm not really into preaching hypocrisy, if I can help it. If you can deal with the consequences of being noticeably introverted in an extrovert-dominated world (for example, being picked on by teachers), then by all means, ignore everyone to your heart's content. And I say that with affection. ^-^

I've been practicing extroversion in the classes of the teachers whom like to give me trouble. They've been a lot easier on me. Unfortunately, I'm not learning anything and I'm (mostly) miserable for the time that I feel like I'm being coerced into socialization. On the bright side, I've learned to curtail my thoughts a bit, shut my mind down (...), grow a sense of humor, and laugh/smile at every unfunny (and funny!) thing that is said. I'm going to show people who they want to see, while privately being my own person.

Psychologically, I guess, I've adapted a 'Machiavellian' attitude. Gaming the system is fun.

First off, we're not a messed-up community, we are God's own prototype, as Puffy said. What's with the negative vibrations? How about some high self esteem instead of, implicit in the various comments, a feeling (damn your eyes for having feelings!) that any explanation is inadequate.

If I announced us as God's own prototype (no matter how true it might be!), I'd just create more problems for myself. The negative vibrations stem from an overly cynical view of the world and its people. The things I like are, typically, debunked as junk by the rest of society.

Believing the situation can be fully corrected in one stroke is probably not wise. It's more like dropping a speed limit on a dangerous road: Not everyone will adjust, but some adjustment will take place and the problem will not be as severe. Instead of thinking you're going to do a Columbine on them, and they'll be blamed, they'll instead think of you as merely eccentric.

You are right. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was the (future) successful doctor's career.

You could always use high school as a chance to practice Extroversion. I didn't begin practicing until college.

I'm practicing now. It's unenjoyable (mostly because of the mundane discussion). Does it get better in college because you can (hopefully) identify people with similar interests due to people having to declare majors and then take classes pertinent to that major?

Well to answer your question to my answer, by displaying your fairly intense desire for solitude while everyone is chatting makes you like a big red dot in a black background. You become a minority and an odd minority. You attract attention. Try being a bit maroon.

I'm doing just that.

The whole jacket thing also should worry other people. Though I don't see why you got a zero for wearing a jacket. Seems like where you live you should have been persecuted by now.

The jacket situation... eh, I'll explain it:

I went to a fancy "Liberal Arts Preparatory" charter school for the first semester of my sophomore year. The school had a strict, business dress code. I adhered to the school's policies until Winter came around and the school tried selling paper-thin sweaters for forty dollars. Outraged, I just decided to wear my own sweatshirt to school when it was cold outside (below 50 Fahrenheit).

Well, that didn't go over so well.

"INTP, you aren't allowed to have that sweatshirt on school grounds."

"It's thirty degrees outside and barely seventy in the classrooms. Until you raise the thermostat, I'm going to wear my sweatshirt because I'm cold."

"You can't do that. If you want to wear a sweatshirt in class, you need to buy one with the school's logo on it. You can buy one at the office for forty dollars, INTP."

"That's asinine. It makes no sense for me to spend three times more than I paid for this heavy, thick jacket to get a paper-thin one simply because it has the school's logo on it. In addition, you are coercing students into buying a school sweatshirt by keeping the classrooms at an abnormal temperature."

That's almost word-for-word the conversation I had with the principal of the school. He could only tell me that it was school policy and that nobody else had trouble conforming to the school's rules. At that point, I also told him that most people are stupid enough to jump off of a bridge if they were told to. He didn't appreciate that comment and then threatened my grades if I continued to wear my cheaper, more efficient sweatshirt. On principle alone, I decided to wear my sweatshirt (A) because what the school was trying to do was extortion and inhumane and (B) my copy of the school handbook (from the start of the year) didn't say anything about grades being able to be lowered if a non-school approved sweatshirt was worn.

A few days later, I was confronted with a choice: take my sweatshirt off inside a sixty degree building, run to my locker and put it away or be late to my last hour (we were having a test). I decided to be a semi-good student and meet the particular teacher half-way. I took off of my sweatshirt (refused to go back to my locker on the grounds that I shouldn't have to choose between being late to a class and getting a detention for that or getting a detention for not complying with the dean of student's request), and put it in my lap. Fast forward a few minutes into the class, and the Dean of Students came in, saw where my sweatshirt was, pulled out his detention slips, and began to write me on after walking out of the classroom. Stupidly, I followed him out of the classroom to receive my detention (which I didn't serve, by the way).

He explained to me that I had a choice. I told him that, while I did have a choice, none of my options were particularly appealing. I was damned if I did, damned if I didn't. Then he said something about not liking me, which I laughed at, and went back into my scheduled class to finish my test (and I ended up getting points docked for leaving in the middle of it (to talk to the Dean of Students)).

That whole jacket incident was really the straw that broke the camel's back. I could tolerate all the silly rules that the school had up to that point, but when they were forcing money out of people who didn't have any to give in the first place, I felt like I had to take a stand. Later on, after I transferred from that school to the one I'm at now, I found out from a teacher that liked me that there were plans to institute a ex post facto rule when the weather warmed up (regarding sweatshirts) so they could lower my last semester grades and further ruin my permanent record.

My dad ended up filing a formal complaint against the Board of Education, and the Prep School ended up losing it's public funding because it wasn't in compliance with several federal and state requirements regarding the health and safety of its students. There was also a criminal investigation launched into the Dean of Students because a female student alleged that he made sexual advances to her in after-school tutoring.

Nota bene: I'm a man of principle. I don't care about laws or rules because I live by my own code. I won't do anything which goes against my own system of morality or common sense. Spending an obscene amount of money on a worthless jacket, well, violates common sense irregardless whatever the policy of the school may be.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I'm practicing now. It's unenjoyable (mostly because of the mundane discussion). Does it get better in college because you can (hopefully) identify people with similar interests due to people having to declare majors and then take classes pertinent to that major?

As a matter of fact, yes. One of the huge advantages of college is that many of the collars that are around your neck in high school are off (of course, there are new collars, but, you'll learn how to cope with those and move forward).

Dave

 

[EditorOne]

"If I announced us as God's own prototype (no matter how true it might be!), I'd just create more problems for myself."

Agreed. I think I was offering it more as a positive attitude adjustment. You seem like you might benefit from sharing a smile. Most success comes from just being there when things happen. Some portion of success comes from expecting the best from yourself. It's really important not to accidentally fall into the mindset we accuse others of having toward us: We are not broken, nor are we substandard, nor are we inadequate. We are simply different, and most of those differences are ones I'm glad I have. In short, we don't actually need to defend ourselves to ourselves, we only find it occasionally useful to try to explain "us" to others shortchanged in the perception category.

 

[pjoa09]

@Stirner I don't think it is an INTP thing anymore. You are just in a Shitty Nazi Prep School. It's understandable for anyone. My school had uniforms and you do get detention in the case that you don't wear your uniform. But they were pretty damn alright. You just needed them for in class.

 

[mm1991]

why do teachers have the right to be concerned with my behavior?

They don't.
But this is coming from someone who was home schooled for high school.
I found I couldn't adapt easily so I had to get out of there.

 

[Stirner]

UPDATE:

I've decided to try and be more sociable. I'm now laughing and smiling at people's jokes. Suffice to say, teachers -- and other people, amazingly -- are happier with me. I am miserable though. The faking is taking a lot out of me emotionally and physically, which is barely leaving me with any reserve energy at the end of the week. Life would be a hell of a lot simpler if I could just stand up and say, "Fuck all of you. I'm going to live life my way, and I'm not going to let your opinions dictate my personal philosophies."

Unfortunately, life would also be a hell of a lot harder if I said something like that. Still though, I'm coming to the conclusion that being an INTP, especially in High School, is more of a curse than a blessing. Later on in life, I suspect that will change. Medicine -- at least the center I intern at -- is littered with successful introverted perceivers. Their advice to me? Get the hell out of High School. To quote one of them:

"You have nothing left to learn, Stirner. You are wasting your own and everybody else's time. At times, it's like you know as much as the least knowledgeable resident. With at least four more years here, you'll be the best neurology resident [to come through these doors]. Please don't waste your time, get discouraged, and give up."

This jives with what I've been told my entire life: school (for me) will be a massive waste because I'm prone to educating myself.

Also, get this: my High School doesn't even have science competitions. When I inquired about them, I was told by my chemistry teacher that "they weren't as important as the school's athletics". I'm appalled. I know he's appalled by my response too, which was, "then the school has no business teaching the sciences to students--when football becomes more important than educating people and forcing them to think, then it's no wonder why this country is almost last in education when compared with other developed nations."

He's a football coach. I probably shouldn't have said what I did, but I'm very veracious (and that's not connected to being an INTP, is it?).