Wealth

[Puffy]

Does anyone here aspire to be particularly wealthy?

Does having wealth come under your criteria for success (in life)?

 

[Cogwulf]

I aspire to being wealthy enough to buy all the stuff I want. I don't want lots of money just for the sake of it.

 

[Architect]

It was a goal and I got there.

Gives a sense of security which is nice, and allows me to buy whatever computers I want. Otherwise doesn't make life simpler or fix any of your problems. Well, take that back a little. It was part of my criteria for success, because success to me meant having more freedom, which being wealthy does give you a degree of.

Or I should say it gives you the option of more freedom, more likely than not you'll continue doing the same thing you did before. I still have my same job and rent my house.

 

[Cogwulf]

Throughout most of history there has been a debate about whether money brings happiness.
I've always thought money doesn't bring happiness, it just helps to facilitate it.

 

[Words]

Does anyone here aspire to be particularly wealthy?

Does having wealth come under your criteria for success (in life)?

Wealth as in the popular definition of wealth? (Now that I think about it, the popularity of a capitalist definition of wealth points to the current materialistic nature of society. But what if the nature of society evolves? In the same way that it is only up to a certain point that man will value his/her basic needs, society undergoes its own shift of values. Analogously, could the nature of all things be evolution?)

I care about wealth but not for wealth itself. Wealth is only a means. By this, I mean the opposite is true. For some, it isn't. Success is about wealth in the form of pragmatism towards something else.

 

[Architect]

Throughout most of history there has been a debate about whether money brings happiness.
I've always thought money doesn't bring happiness, it just helps to facilitate it.

I just heard a family councilor talk about how many mansions she goes to, to help broken families, proof that money doesn't buy happiness (her words).

Having said that, I'm happier now than I was before, and it led me to important insights about myself I wouldn't have had otherwise.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I more want influence. This could include money, but I don't think the effort/influence ratio would be too high if I'm only going after money. Understanding and position would be more important.

I only want money insofar as it will help me give my (future) children as good a life as possible.

Self-sufficiency would be a nice goal. Being free from having to work, free to do as I please.

 

[Words]

I just heard a family councilor talk about how many mansions she goes to, to help broken families, proof that money doesn't buy happiness (her words).

Don't you think happiness could be infinitely relative to infinity? Would you agree that there are some people who do find happiness on money? Or do you believe in universal values in general? How about the factor of time and situation? How about the definition of "happiness"?

 

[Architect]

Don't you think happiness could be infinitely relative to infinity?

Unlikely

Would you agree that there are some people who do find happiness on money?

Not that I've observed, other than, as I said, in some smaller degree. I found some amount of happiness in having money, but what I've seen more often in myself and other is happiness from work - engaging in flow activities.

Or do you believe in universal values in general?

Not really, but you'd have to define this more precisely for a better answer.

How about the factor of time and situation?

I don't know what you mean by this.

How about the definition of "happiness"?

Happiness is a difficult term. I prefer 'fulfillment'.

I find fulfillment from work, predominantly as a Flow activity, but also from the peripherals such as status, recognition, accomplishment, etc. Wealth offers me greater opportunity for work so enables more fulfillment. For example, I have more choice in what I do - I can afford an expensive home office so I can work on personal projects, can afford a health club so I can swim as a break from work (thereby enabling better work), etc ...

 

[Bird]

What makes one happy does not
necessarily make another happy.

 

[EditorOne]

While wealthy families have their problems, my experience has been that when there's not enough money to cover the basics, there is a very great likelihood of serious domestic discord, the kind with violence, extreme depression, guilt, anger and all the ugly you can imagine. Money might not bring happiness, but lack of money is a real stress on relationships. If you're alone and don't have enough money, that's one thing. I'd be happy with very little. It's when others are depending on you and there's not enough that the real trouble starts.
We've seen here in the Pocono Mountains that low-income families baited into buying homes they couldn't afford were in such danger of breaking up and of violence that one of our school systems hired a counselor whose sole job it was to deal with kids in such situations.
Wealth per se has never been a mark of success in my book, I've seen too many rich assholes to see it as desirable. But enough money to reduce worry? And on a dependable basis for the future? You bet. Definitely a goal. Almost there.

 

[Infinite Regress]

I did and was fortunate to reach the goal. I was able to help my parents retire early, participate in charity work and afford to travel and pay for all the hobbies I like to pursue without worry.

The sweetest thing is the freedom that comes with it.
So yes, for me it is a criteria in life. Though money does bring other troubles to the table...

 

[Puffy]

Interesting responses. I think I personally attach little value to material things. Like I don't think it would bother me to live in a particularly small house if it meant I had money to spend on things that interest me.

I would like to travel, I think. So I still need money it would seem (: I think of late I deem the success in my life on how much I get to experience, and with that how much understanding I can acquire from that.

(Realisation of inferior Se as understood by dominant Ni?)

 

[Dormouse]

I enjoy being generous. As such, wealth is something desirable.

I'd also like to travel and afford enough space to have some peace and privacy.

 

[crippli]

Wealth is the fulfilment of the mind. I think all seek it.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

While wealthy families have their problems, my experience has been that when there's not enough money to cover the basics..

Really, I think people should have enough to cover the basics, but not much more.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Really, I think people should have enough to cover the basics, but not much more.

How do we determine what and how much qualifies as "basic", considering that not everyone has the same exact biology?

 

[snafupants]

What makes one happy does not
necessarily make another happy.

Thank you Confucius.

 

[Words]

Not that I've observed, other than, as I said, in some smaller degree. I found some amount of happiness in having money, but what I've seen more often in myself and other is happiness from work - engaging in flow activities.

Not really, but you'd have to define this more precisely for a better answer.

So do you think that money =/= happiness is universal?

Happiness is a difficult term. I prefer 'fulfillment'.

I find fulfillment from work, predominantly as a Flow activity, but also from the peripherals such as status, recognition, accomplishment, etc. Wealth offers me greater opportunity for work so enables more fulfillment. For example, I have more choice in what I do - I can afford an expensive home office so I can work on personal projects, can afford a health club so I can swim as a break from work (thereby enabling better work), etc ...

The process then. This sounds like a present-oriented flow of stimulation.

 

[The Gopher]

I would like enough money to secure a life style, where I can travel with just a laptop and a few other things and have enough money to just live as I go. Completely impossible though.

 

[Glordag]

I've realized that my mind reverts to a very similar state regardless of my external circumstances. As such, as long as I have enough money to cover my health I'm mostly fine. Having the spare change to alter my surrounding and fuel my hobbies seems nice, but I question whether it truly makes me any happier than not having those luxuries.

 

[Architect]

So do you think that money =/= happiness is universal?

I don't know what you mean by =/=, you'll have to speak plainer for clearer communication.

The process then. This sounds like a present-oriented flow of stimulation.

No, Flow involves that but it's goal oriented.

 

[EditorOne]

Originally Posted by Artsu Tharaz
Really, I think people should have enough to cover the basics, but not much more.
"How do we determine what and how much qualifies as "basic", considering that not everyone has the same exact biology?"

Basic: Enough to eat, adequate shelter, security from harm, adequate health care. The Netherlands, as I understand it....

 

[BigApplePi]

Wealth brings freedom is right. Whatever it is you're wealthy in means you can do with it as you wish. If you are not wealthy in something, you have to be careful.

 

[snafupants]

The idea of accumulating wealth for its own sake makes me sick; it's so pointless, and then you wonder why these people off themselves in their thirties when the only thing they cherish turns sour. Aside from the meaning that a particular profession holds for me, it should be able to cover rent, food, insurance, and minor sundry items. I couldn't live with myself in fifty years, or even ten, if the only thing I could show for the toil and hours was a shiny car and a fat bank account.

 

[SpaceYeti]

I don't know what you mean by =/=, you'll have to speak plainer for clearer communication.

Does not equal.

= equal to

=/= not equal to

 

[BigApplePi]

Does not equal.

= equal to

=/= not equal to

From which it follows, what does =/=/= equal to?

 

[SpaceYeti]

From which it follows, what does =/=/= equal to?

Equal to yo mama.

 

[Anchorite]

I want wealth to some degree because I want knowledge. I want to be able to buy whatever books I want. I want to be able to travel every year so I can experience what the world is. And I want to be able to take as good care of my health as possible which usually means buying food that is more expensive.
I would also like to have wealth for the sake of helping those who don't have it.

 

[Words]

I don't know what you mean by =/=, you'll have to speak plainer for clearer communication.

Do you believe that the idea that "money != happiness" is universal? Do you believe that no human finds happiness through money?

 

[Awaken]

I want money because I HATE the concept of money and dont want to have to deal with it(acquisition, poverty etc).

 

[17pounder]

I want money to make an impression on the world. I would love to be able to form a company where I can not only increase the quality of life of the less fortunate, but improve the quality and efficiency of the world, hopefully improving the life quality of others.

 

[Lobstrich]

I'm wiht Cogwulf. I'd like wealth to buy the things that I wan't to buy. Not for status.

 

[Lobstrich]

I want money to make an impression on the world. I would love to be able to form a company where I can not only increase the quality of life of the less fortunate, but improve the quality and efficiency of the world, hopefully improving the life quality of others.

Awww, how cute.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

I plan on being independently wealthy, although I can consider my self successful without obtaining wealth.

 

[Roboman]

I like to earn money. It is my hobby as it is my job. My budget is low, I have no practical use for it, just for the essentials and future security.

 

[AlteramPartem]

I want to make tons of money. It's shallow but I was raised in a family that judges people on the basis of how much they make. It is my upbringing and even volunteering abroad hasn't entirely shaken that off. If anything, it made me realize the extent of my selfishness, which is not complete. I'd still like to give 10 to 25 percent of my income and/or time as I go on. Knowing that I'm greedy/eager has helped me so far in being motivated. I'll hold on to it and change my behavior whenever my mind does.

 

[smithcommajohn]

As has been mentioned on here by several posters, wealth does not make you happy. Wealth affords you the freedom to pursue happiness.

There was a funny old saying that stuck with me that goes as follows:

Life is like a shit sandwich...
the more dough you have, the less shit you have to taste

 

[Arak]

This is an issue i have thought about a lot.

I pursue wealth as a mean to obtain more personal freedom. I don't care much for luxury but i don't like to be restricted in what i do with my time due to financial needs. Truth be told, as long as you are not at least close to financial independence you won't have much choice but to sacrifice some of your dreams on the altar of the job market. Of course, you can always start your own business but it is fraught with financial risks and the kind of work required is not to everyone's liking.


Most people say that time is money but i see it another way: money is time. My approach to wealth is not to become filthy rich but to reduce the recurring costs of living to a maximum to open up more options on what i can do with my time while still paying off the bills. When you start your career your balance is not at 0$ but somewhere between -150 000$ to -500 000$ due to all the things you will need in the course of your lifetime. The closer you get to 0 the more freedom you have. Even without reaching 0, it's easier to do whatever you want and be paid for it when you need only 8000$ a year to meet all your needs than when you need 30 000$.


With this in mind, i have imposed the following rules upon myself:

1- Own rather then rent stuff (used car, small house etc)

2- Find ways to cut monthly costs without changing the quality of life (ex: better insulation, optimal phone/internet/cable packages, presently looking into grid tied solar panels as a way to eliminate electricity bills etc)

3- Never borrow any money unless absolutely necessary. Keep a sizable fund for emergencies so you never have to. Don't use credit card except for internet purchase and only if you can pay it back right away.

4- Don't take the needless risk of one day losing the house by not using the money saved each year to pay back the mortgage faster. Pay ASAP and only invest into retirement funds and other trinkets once it is paid. Seven or eight years of risk is better than 25 and the extra money that could be made is not worth the risk.


I have always stuck to these rules and while it was depressing during the first years, it is really starting to pay off and i am close to obtaining what i would call a sufficient amount of wealth (read debt freedom) to be able to work part time and starting pursuing other interests. In a few year, i could even chose to abandon my job and start some minor "low maintenance" web business that would pay just enough each year to meet my needs. I have not yet decided what i will do but i take comfort in knowing that i will have a choice.


This is my definition of wealth. Life is not about things but about experiences and is too precious to waste away by being forced to do the same thing 9-5 for 40 years. I like my job, but i have many interests to explore and i feel it is a shame to be reduced to only 1.

 

[pjoa09]

Theory:
Money == Buy Whatever You Want
Buy Whatever You Want == Freedom
Freedom == Happiness

Now if your wife is a hooker things might be a bit depressing.

Other than that, it's all good.

But more seriously, the only way to attain and maintain money is being a more important body in the financial and economical structure.

I consider money as the blood of our society. The organs need blood to survive and function healthily. Thus, you crave it yourself. The only way to have more money is to be more responsible for the economic growth or stability. You can always emulate the brain or heart of the financial system by being smart with money or flowing money a lot around you.



Now if you really really want money, you can borrow from the bank and never return it back.

Oh wait.
Huh.
Kinda late.

Yes I desire money just to make life a little more like GTA and a little less like fucking stuck in office all fucking day.

Make that a gigantic airfield, all the cars,bikes,aeroplanes I desire, a supercomputer set up in the hanger, a race track, a nice complete garage, a swimming pool, and a nice good house.

Yeah, with those sorts of expenditures I don't think I could be responsible with money.

 

[Jordan~]

I'd just feel bad about it unless everyone else lived to a similar standard. I already feel bad enough about being lower middle class and western.

 

[OverCaes]

I aspire to have wealth, but not as a measure of my success. Given wealth, I would take care of base necessities and spread said wealth to those less fortunate.

 

[deadcaribou]

Wealth == freedom, seriously ?? Nah that would be too simple. You have to take into account the time/energy required to generate high revenues (unless you're a lottery winner etc.) While it is not strictly proportionnal to the money you make (CEOs do no work 150 times more than us); I observed that wealthy people tend to also work a lot, with a blurry boundary between work and personnal life. Wealth can make you a slave to your work. What's more, it creates needs. I've seen a few friends who made loads of money in the audit business and were unable to leave jobs they hated because they were too reliant on it to cover the cost of their livestyles.

 

[pjoa09]

Wealth == freedom, seriously ?? Nah that would be too simple. You have to take into account the time/energy required to generate high revenues (unless you're a lottery winner etc.) While it is not strictly proportional to the money you make (CEOs do no work 150 times more than us); I observed that wealthy people tend to also work a lot with a blurry boundary between work and personal life. Wealth can make you a slave to your work. What's more, it creates needs. I've seen a few friends who made loads of money in the audit business and were unable to leave jobs they hated because they were too reliant on it to cover the cost of their livestyles.

I know plenty of families who have wealthier parents and are still free in the same country to have a Family Sunday.

I can't say that for a construction worker or a poor businessman.

 

[Jordan~]

I have rich friends who sometimes go to New York for the weekend. We live in the UK. It does give you quite a lot of freedom.

 

[CLOfriendOSE]

I have rich friends who sometimes go to New York for the weekend. We live in the UK. It does give you quite a lot of freedom.

This sounds a lot like "trapped in the physical" to me. While the ability to go/manipulate shadows is enjoyable, I can't help but feel it is rather unfruitful.

I would like enough wealth to be able to sing. This means maintaining body and time to practice, as well as an apartment somewhere. That's all. Singing is a living mandala, for me, one that needs not be destroyed since it disippates itself.

 

[Jordan~]

Oh, I agree, I wouldn't particularly want that. I don't really want anything material - a good computer with a good connection to the Internet, and everything necessitated by living with three large dogs, that's all.

 

[Geminii]

Money's a useful tool to have to hand on those occasions when you need it, and from day to day it's a great universal lubricant and solvent to smooth your path.

 

[PhoenixofVindemiatrix]

Theory:
Money == Buy Whatever You Want
Buy Whatever You Want == Freedom
Freedom == Happiness

Not true. Once you have a minimal level of money needed for survival, such as for paying rent, buying food, etc., further money makes very little difference. Scientific studies have shown this.

 

[Geminii]

It all depends what it would take to make an individual person happy.