Uses of a Physics degree

[duke of new york]

Hey, I am new to this forum, but I don't really want to post an intro in the intro forum. I will just start off with a question here.

I graduated college in 2010. I majored in Anthropology. The main reason for this selection was that I dicked around a lot in college and didn't take it very seriously. I had no idea what I wanted to do, and I figured a degree was a degree and unless you wanted a specific professional career like a doctor or lawyer, it doesn't really matter what you major in.

But now I am working (teaching), and it is sinking in that there are not many opportunities out there for me. I settled on Anthro in school because it was reasonably interesting to me, but I am definitely not into it enough to make a career out of it.

I've been thinking about this for a few months, and I want to go back to school and get another degree. I would really like to do Physics. I avoided math and science throughout college and even high school, because I was lazy, and I always considered math to be a lot of work. It's not that I'm not good at math--I was always one of the top students in all my high school courses as well as scoring very high in both math and verbal sections on all the standardized tests--but I will be woefully behind in my math when I return to school. I've never taken a Calculus class, and the last math class I took was finite my freshman year (2006).

Do you guys think this is even a reasonable idea? I really have no academic experience anything like what I will be doing. I'd like to make good grades (As and Bs), because I will probably want to move on to a graduate degree afterwards. I am more mature, hardworking and disciplined now than I was when I started college, and . By my senior year or so, I was a much better student than I started out as, but I felt it was too late at that point to change my major and do something more productive. If I go back and do it now, though, it would only take about 2 or 3 part-time semesters and 2 full-time semesters to get the additional degree. I don't have a problem with the time commitment, because I love school, but it would be quite expensive.

What I really want to know is this: would a BS in Physics, with relevant research experience, and possibly a Master's degree as well, be useful for getting a job in industry? I would like to have an engineering-/design-type job in something like lasers or optics. I'm not really interested in academia as a career. Ideally, I would try to get an engineering degree, but that would involve pretty much starting over from the beginning and going to school full time for another four years. A lot more of my previous credits would count toward a BS degree at my former university.

I've always heard that Physics degrees are good for nothing but academia, but they can't be as bad as Anthropology degrees, right? Would it be worthwhile for my goals to get the Physics degree, or should I look into something else?

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Random thoughts:

Engineering>physics>anthropology

If you're willing to spend 4 years getting a B.S. and/or M.S. in physics, why not spend 4 years getting a B.S. in Engineering?

IS there some way you can link these seemingly disparate interests? This is a toughie, but it's got to be possible. Citizen science?

A B.S. in physics with some sort of minor in engineering if possible would likely do the trick if coupled with relevant experience.

Huzzah!

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

A physics degree shows you can problem solve. To do anything interesting in the future, you will need a PhD. Hell, to do what I want in my engineering career I need to finish this PhD candidature.

If you want a guaranteed job at the end of your university level education, degrees in the area of electrical engineering / computer science would be a better idea.

 

[duke of new york]

Random thoughts:

Engineering>physics>anthropology

If you're willing to spend 4 years getting a B.S. and/or M.S. in physics, why not spend 4 years getting a B.S. in Engineering?

IS there some way you can link these seemingly disparate interests? This is a toughie, but it's got to be possible. Citizen science?

A B.S. in physics with some sort of minor in engineering if possible would likely do the trick if coupled with relevant experience.

Huzzah!

Well, the difference is that if I did pretty well in the undergraduate part, I could get some kind of funding when I moved on to a graduate degree. I don't think there would be any hope of any kind of funding while I am still an undergrad getting my second bachelor's degree, so four years of engineering school full-time with no scholarships or aid would be astronomically expensive.

Engineering minor might be a possibility. I'm not sure if it is offered at my university, but I will look into it.

A physics degree shows you can problem solve. To do anything interesting in the future, you will need a PhD. Hell, to do what I want in my engineering career I need to finish this PhD candidature.

If you want a guaranteed job at the end of your university level education, degrees in the area of electrical engineering / computer science would be a better idea.

Well, a PhD isn't out of the question, but nor is it something I am going to commit to at this point. What do you mean by "anything interesting?" Any physics-related job? Like I said, it doesn't need to be theory or research.

So, if a Physics degree would not get me a guaranteed job, would it at least give me a decent chance? Or is it really tough for non-PhD Physics majors to find jobs outside academia?

 

[Otherside]

Hey, I am new to this forum, but I don't really want to post an intro in the intro forum. I will just start off with a question here.

I graduated college in 2010. I majored in Anthropology. The main reason for this selection was that I dicked around a lot in college and didn't take it very seriously. I had no idea what I wanted to do, and I figured a degree was a degree and unless you wanted a specific professional career like a doctor or lawyer, it doesn't really matter what you major in.

But now I am working (teaching), and it is sinking in that there are not many opportunities out there for me. I settled on Anthro in school because it was reasonably interesting to me, but I am definitely not into it enough to make a career out of it.

I've been thinking about this for a few months, and I want to go back to school and get another degree. I would really like to do Physics. I avoided math and science throughout college and even high school, because I was lazy, and I always considered math to be a lot of work. It's not that I'm not good at math--I was always one of the top students in all my high school courses as well as scoring very high in both math and verbal sections on all the standardized tests--but I will be woefully behind in my math when I return to school. I've never taken a Calculus class, and the last math class I took was finite my freshman year (2006).

Do you guys think this is even a reasonable idea? I really have no academic experience anything like what I will be doing. I'd like to make good grades (As and Bs), because I will probably want to move on to a graduate degree afterwards. I am more mature, hardworking and disciplined now than I was when I started college, and . By my senior year or so, I was a much better student than I started out as, but I felt it was too late at that point to change my major and do something more productive. If I go back and do it now, though, it would only take about 2 or 3 part-time semesters and 2 full-time semesters to get the additional degree. I don't have a problem with the time commitment, because I love school, but it would be quite expensive.

What I really want to know is this: would a BS in Physics, with relevant research experience, and possibly a Master's degree as well, be useful for getting a job in industry? I would like to have an engineering-/design-type job in something like lasers or optics. I'm not really interested in academia as a career. Ideally, I would try to get an engineering degree, but that would involve pretty much starting over from the beginning and going to school full time for another four years. A lot more of my previous credits would count toward a BS degree at my former university.

I've always heard that Physics degrees are good for nothing but academia, but they can't be as bad as Anthropology degrees, right? Would it be worthwhile for my goals to get the Physics degree, or should I look into something else?

With the credits you already have in mathematics and science, I'd consider engineering. I'm guessing 50-60 hours would get it since you should have the liberal arts electives (and a lot of other requirements) already covered.

Civil Engineering would probably be boring for you, but electrical might be a good fit. Analog circuit design is challenging and fun. Pretty cool to design your own audio amplifier and then see (hear) it work.

My only warning is that the work you would be doing requires a lot of interaction with other engineers and support staff.

Best of luck to you!

 

[Otherside]

My mistake in my above post.. I misread and thought you had said you already had a degree in physics. You still have a lot of L/A electives out of the way though.

 

[duke of new york]

Thanks for the advice, Otherside, but my previous coursework doesn't give me much that would count toward an engineering degree. Bottom line: BS in Physics would run me 50 credit hours, while engineering would be around 90 hours (I guess I could do it in 3 years, not 4). My main issue with that is cost, not time. There are not really any kind of scholarships or financial aid for second bachelor's degree students, so whatever it costs, I will likely end up paying in full.

How big is the difference between Physics and Electrical Engineering in terms of career opportunities and salaries? Here is the rough comparison in tuition/time requirements for the two degrees (cost discrepancy is because the tuition for the engineering college is more expensive than the arts and sciences college):


B.S., Physics: 50 hours (3.5 semesters), $12,000

B.S., Electrical Engineering: 90 hours (6 semesters), $25,000


Thank you guys so much for your responses.

 

[Otherside]

Thanks for the advice, Otherside, but my previous coursework doesn't give me much that would count toward an engineering degree. Bottom line: BS in Physics would run me 50 credit hours, while engineering would be around 90 hours (I guess I could do it in 3 years, not 4). My main issue with that is cost, not time. There are not really any kind of scholarships or financial aid for second bachelor's degree students, so whatever it costs, I will likely end up paying in full.

How big is the difference between Physics and Electrical Engineering in terms of career opportunities and salaries? Here is the rough comparison in tuition/time requirements for the two degrees (cost discrepancy is because the tuition for the engineering college is more expensive than the arts and sciences college):


B.S., Physics: 50 hours (3.5 semesters), $12,000

B.S., Electrical Engineering: 90 hours (6 semesters), $25,000

Thank you guys so much for your responses.

You would make up that difference in one year's salary in all probability. I don't know that a B.S. in physics would offer many career opportunities at all. (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that).

In a decent economy, you could expect a starting salary of 40-50k (at least) with an engineering degree from a decent university, and probably have a job secured upon graduation.

Note that I said decent economy... not the current status.

 

[duke of new york]

Thanks again for the help. I'm considering Electrical Engineering a little more seriously now.

Now, there is a minor I could get with either degree: Microelectronics and Photonics. I'm not sure what exactly it entails; it is mainly a graduate research program, and the minor involves some kind of participation in the graduate research, as well as some specialized coursework, of course. This is also exactly the kind of field I am interested in. If I did the Physics major with the Microelectronics/Photonics minor, do you think that would make much of a difference in career opportunities?

 

[Otherside]

Thanks again for the help. I'm considering Electrical Engineering a little more seriously now.

Now, there is a minor I could get with either degree: Microelectronics and Photonics. I'm not sure what exactly it entails; it is mainly a graduate research program, and the minor involves some kind of participation in the graduate research, as well as some specialized coursework, of course. This is also exactly the kind of field I am interested in. If I did the Physics major with the Microelectronics/Photonics minor, do you think that would make much of a difference in career opportunities?

My (mostly inuitive) answer is that microelectronics would be the best for a job in the US with a bachelor's. As for photonics, I don't know how much interesting work there would be in that field with a BS.

Microelectronics would primarily involve chip design, either digital or analog. That could get you in to a company like Analog Devices.

It might be worth your time to go to Careerbuilder.com and see where the demand is. It won't change drastically (in proportion) in the next few years.

 

[Otherside]

When you get into the details of semiconductor design, you have to face what might be a stunning discovery. You have to accept the concept of a "hole", which is basically a positively charged electron. When it is first introduced, it will seem counter intuitive after being taught that negative electrons are the only mechanism by which electrical current propagates.

It slides over into quantum theory where the atom becomes more of a bipolar entity, which is consistent with a lot of other forces in nature such as magnetism.

I swear I'm going to finish that unified theory this week.

 

[Otherside]

On the other point, I wouldn't get the physics degree with the minor. Companies that need engineers hire people with engineering degrees.

 

[duke of new york]

My (mostly inuitive) answer is that microelectronics would be the best for a job in the US with a bachelor's. As for photonics, I don't know how much interesting work there would be in that field with a BS.

Microelectronics would primarily involve chip design, either digital or analog. That could get you in to a company like Analog Devices.

It might be worth your time to go to Careerbuilder.com and see where the demand is. It won't change drastically (in proportion) in the next few years.

Sorry, I don't think I was very clear. There is just one minor, and it is called "Microelectronics and Photonics." The program website is here. I'm not quite sure what photonics has to do with it from the information on the site, but that is actually the field I am more interested in. I'd like to do something involving lasers or signals like RF. I took several remote sensing courses in college, and I really enjoyed learning about how the satellites sense and transmit data, how GPS satellites work, etc. This is the kind of stuff that got me interested in physics and engineering.

When you get into the details of semiconductor design, you have to face what might be a stunning discovery. You have to accept the concept of a "hole", which is basically a positively charged electron. When it is first introduced, it will seem counter intuitive after being taught that negative electrons are the only mechanism by which electrical current propagates.

It slides over into quantum theory where the atom becomes more of a bipolar entity, which is consistent with a lot of other forces in nature such as magnetism.

I swear I'm going to finish that unified theory this week.

Ha! Fascinating stuff.

On the other point, I wouldn't get the physics degree with the minor. Companies that need engineers hire people with engineering degrees.

This is what I was thinking. Maybe it would be wise to just strap in and go for the Engineering degree.

Does anybody have anything to say in defense of a Physics degree?

 

[Melllvar]

I've been thinking about this for a few months, and I want to go back to school and get another degree. I would really like to do Physics. I avoided math and science throughout college and even high school, because I was lazy, and I always considered math to be a lot of work. It's not that I'm not good at math--I was always one of the top students in all my high school courses as well as scoring very high in both math and verbal sections on all the standardized tests--but I will be woefully behind in my math when I return to school. I've never taken a Calculus class, and the last math class I took was finite my freshman year (2006).

This is just a personal opinion, but I honestly don't think anyone can really even know whether or not they'll like physics (as a college major or career) at this point. It's simply too mathematical, calculus in physics is like the equivalent of pre-algebra for everything else. As amusingly said in a certain movie, the problems can take hours/days/weeks/the rest of your natural life, and frequently will. This can get rather frustrating when you're really trying to keep that GPA up for your eventual master's program.

Don't get me wrong, physics is great and as many people should study it as possible... but I dropped out myself and watched a lot of smarter and more hard working people change to other majors as well, physics departments are usually very small with high drop-out rates for lower-level undergraduates. Needless to say this is how I expect most people to end up. Honestly I think people who want to do physics (that don't already know a lot about it) should lurk on www.physicsforums.com for a while. It's a good exposure to actual problems and debate between working physicists and professors. Helps to cut through the romanticism and get to what your daily life will be like.

I don't really know about employment/industry as I never graduated, but physics usually gets touted as the versatile science degree with no particular application. You'll never get into physics research at a bachelor's level (well maybe an internship as a student if you're particularly impressive, but remember they're only looking for the smartest of the smartest - sad but true), probably not at master's either, but the skillset easily transfers to stuff like EE and mechanical, software development, etc., although it's not as competitive as a degree in those actual fields (usually).

Other than that go for it, just like to tell people what I learned so they don't waste time and money in a major they eventually change out of.

(Also your avatar is hilariously awesome. )

 

[duke of new york]

What about getting a Physics BS, and then going into an Electrical Engineering graduate program? Would that possible? Unlikely? Difficult? Like I said, graduate school would be better than undergraduate college because I could potentially get funding.

 

[Otherside]

What about getting a Physics BS, and then going into an Electrical Engineering graduate program? Would that possible? Unlikely? Difficult? Like I said, graduate school would be better than undergraduate college because I could potentially get funding.

I don't think you could enter an engineering program at the graduate level with a BS in physics, nor would you want to. You would be missing too much background knowledge.

There's a great program called "PSPICE" that is an electronics circuit simulation tool. I think there's a free "student version" available. Fun to play with, and something that every EE department uses. It's great for "tweaking" and verifying a circuit before you put the work into building it on a breadboard.

Another great program is LabVIEW. I'm having difficulty thinking of any process that you can't simulate with it, and if you enjoy signal processing, it's the tool for that.

MATLAB is used for a lot of the same purposes as LabVIEW, but I find it to be cumbersome.

 

[snafupants]

A physics degree...yeah, that can be helpful when you run out of toilet paper or if you need to jot down a number quickly and nothing else is available...

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Like I said, graduate school would be better than undergraduate college because I could potentially get funding.

You keep mentioning funding. I'm not aware of a reputable graduate program in the sciences that doesn't give you funding. I got accepted with 5 years worth of funding plus full waivers of tuition and fees. The key is getting accepted.

 

[Otherside]

You keep mentioning funding. I'm not aware of a reputable graduate program in the sciences that doesn't give you funding. I got accepted with 5 years worth of funding plus full waivers of tuition and fees. The key is getting accepted.

He's right, the money is out there if you have the ability, desire, and steadfastness to earn it. It's a good experience in general.

 

[duke of new york]

You keep mentioning funding. I'm not aware of a reputable graduate program in the sciences that doesn't give you funding. I got accepted with 5 years worth of funding plus full waivers of tuition and fees. The key is getting accepted.

This is why I am reluctant to do the undergraduate engineering program. As long as I am loitering around in an undergraduate major, I will be paying out the ass for it. I'd prefer to get a quicker undergrad major--like Physics--and move on to graduate school, where I wouldn't have to pay for everything. But from the advice you all have given me, and what I have been reading on other websites and forums, it looks like I really need that engineering bachelor's degree to get the opportunities I am hoping for.

You don't have to read this next paragraph; it's just a lot of whining and worrying with no real point to it. Sorry, I just need to vent about it.

I can just put all the tuition and fees on student loans and pay them off once I have a job, but I'm just worried about making ends meet while I am going to school. I don't think it would be a good idea to work while going to engineering school full-time. There are so many financial things to worry about that I don't know if my savings will cover for four years: rent, phone bills, food...I'll probably need a car (hard to get around in Arkansas without one), and that means buying a car and paying for taxes, insurance, and gas...even if I cut corners and live frugally--which I intend to--there are a lot of costs that could be a serious problem after a few years with little or no income. In the past, my parents would help out with some of this stuff, but I'm 25 with a college degree now, and they have been pretty clear that I am on my own at this point. I've never had any debt before, and I just don't want to get myself in financial trouble before I finish my degree and get a job.

Well, thank you all for your advice and information. It has truly been very helpful, and things are quite a bit clearer now. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do, but I'm leaning more toward the Electrical Engineering program now. Whatever I decide to do, though, I'm sure once I figure it out I will stop worrying and go into it with a determined, fuck-it-all attitude, like a true INTP.

 

[Otherside]

This is why I am reluctant to do the undergraduate engineering program. As long as I am loitering around in an undergraduate major, I will be paying out the ass for it. I'd prefer to get a quicker undergrad major--like Physics--and move on to graduate school, where I wouldn't have to pay for everything. But from the advice you all have given me, and what I have been reading on other websites and forums, it looks like I really need that engineering bachelor's degree to get the opportunities I am hoping for.

You don't have to read this next paragraph; it's just a lot of whining and worrying with no real point to it. Sorry, I just need to vent about it.

I can just put all the tuition and fees on student loans and pay them off once I have a job, but I'm just worried about making ends meet while I am going to school. I don't think it would be a good idea to work while going to engineering school full-time. There are so many financial things to worry about that I don't know if my savings will cover for four years: rent, phone bills, food...I'll probably need a car (hard to get around in Arkansas without one), and that means buying a car and paying for taxes, insurance, and gas...even if I cut corners and live frugally--which I intend to--there are a lot of costs that could be a serious problem after a few years with little or no income. In the past, my parents would help out with some of this stuff, but I'm 25 with a college degree now, and they have been pretty clear that I am on my own at this point. I've never had any debt before, and I just don't want to get myself in financial trouble before I finish my degree and get a job.

Well, thank you all for your advice and information. It has truly been very helpful, and things are quite a bit clearer now. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do, but I'm leaning more toward the Electrical Engineering program now. Whatever I decide to do, though, I'm sure once I figure it out I will stop worrying and go into it with a determined, fuck-it-all attitude, like a true INTP.

I don't know you're entire situation, but eliminate every expense that you can, and get a cheap apartment within walking distance to campus. You don't want a transportation issue interfering with your ability to attend classes. Parking is also a nightmare at most major universities (expensive also).

Your parents want you to be happy and succeed. I'm a parent and I can tell you that nothing is more important to me than my child's well being. After you get your ducks in a row, lay out your plan for them and then start kicking some butt in school. Once they see you're on a path to something that will lead to a realistic career, dad will help out with the car and mom isn't going to let you go hungry.

I did almost the exact same thing when i was 23 after floundering around a bit.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

You don't have to read this next paragraph; it's just a lot of whining and worrying with no real point to it. Sorry, I just need to vent about it.

Live close to campus, invest in a cheap craigslist bicycle, and buy food in bulk 3-4 times a year (it's on sale 2 weeks before Thanksgiving, Easter, and July 4) which brings down my monthly food expenses to ~$50. The key is to buy enough, 4 months worth, at once and stash it somewhere safe, i.e. my closet. Clothes=thrift store.

You may be able to shorten the time required by overloading credits (if 15 are recommended, I've found that 18 is doable and 22 is suicidal) or taking summer classes, or you can follow the normal semester schedule and work during the summer. You do have a useable if not useful degree, after all.

You may also want to look into becoming an auction hound. Buy a bunch of stuff at estate sales for dirt cheap and sell it at the local flea market on the weekend. I suggest perusing the local flea market early in the morning to get a feel for what things sell for (not what the sellers are asking for) so you know how much you can afford to pay for similar items. Plus you can buy things for yourself cheaply as well. auctionzip.com is a good resource for this.

 

[Spirit]

Graduated with one of my degrees in Anthropology in 2010.

I will make between 50 and 60k this year as a project analyst.



Learn to sell yourself.