• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

Understanding NI

Logic

Banned
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
174
---
Location
New Westminster, Canada
Logic. Could it be all INTPs are in the same boat with regard to Ni? Those who lead with Ni (INFJs & INTJs) are busy doing their thing. INTPs can't accept this intuitively as their intuition is Ne which insists in searching for objectivity and their thinking must straighten out inconsistencies. I would think an INTP must accept an INxJ from the outside adapting a POV of tolerance. Tolerance means the acceptance of the INxJ differences. There may be analytical approaches to these differences, but they will branch out into territories new to the INTP leading to more of the same.

I speculate that many INTP's are indeed in the same boat with regards to Ni, it's why I think we being the INTP forum need to further our understanding to higher levels so we can explore any uncharted area.

I also think its important to want to accept the XNXJ's on their type and I do understand that I will never understand someone completely, but that doesnt mean we shouldn't try. I dont understand what you mean by "There may be analytical approaches to these differences, but they will branch out into territories new to the INTP leading to more of the same" I think we can approach it from different perspectives but i dont think they will lead to more of the same in fact i believe they will lead us to realizations we didn't already know.
 

Words

Only 1 1-F.
Local time
Today 3:58 PM
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
3,222
---
Location
Order
@Logic

@Pi

@Everyone

How familiar is Ni to you? It sounds amazing but I wonder how SP's deal with it.

Ni is what I consider the most alien function to me. Fi, on the hand, is quite familiar. Te is so-so and Se a bit.
 

BigApplePi

Banned
Local time
Today 8:58 AM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,984
---
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
Originally Posted by BigApplePi
Logic. Could it be all INTPs are in the same boat with regard to Ni? Those who lead with Ni (INFJs & INTJs) are busy doing their thing. INTPs can't accept this intuitively as their intuition is Ne which insists in searching for objectivity and their thinking must straighten out inconsistencies. I would think an INTP must accept an INxJ from the outside adapting a POV of tolerance. Tolerance means the acceptance of the INxJ differences. There may be analytical approaches to these differences, but they will branch out into territories new to the INTP leading to more of the same.
I speculate that many INTP's are indeed in the same boat with regards to Ni, it's why I think we being the INTP forum need to further our understanding to higher levels so we can explore any uncharted area.

I also think its important to want to accept the XNXJ's on their type and I do understand that I will never understand someone completely, but that doesnt mean we shouldn't try. I dont understand what you mean by "There may be analytical approaches to these differences, but they will branch out into territories new to the INTP leading to more of the same" I think we can approach it from different perspectives but i dont think they will lead to more of the same in fact i believe they will lead us to realizations we didn't already know.
Yes. What I meant was one may look at differences of xNxJ's from INTP's but the results of analysis will only reveal more differences. An INTP will note those differences and rate and classify them to understand what they are, but inwardly will never agree with them for themselves.

Just think of what happens when you study a J's opinion or viewpoint. You may come to understand it but as long as you see it as a judgment as opposed to alternate truths, you will never accept it.

The business of an INTP is general truth; the business of J's is particular truth.
 

BigApplePi

Banned
Local time
Today 8:58 AM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,984
---
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
How familiar is Ni to you?.
If INTJ's and INFJ's are the prime suspects, I'm currently likening Ni to opinion or special point-of-view. One sees that in people everywhere.

It sounds amazing but I wonder how SP's deal with it.
I dunno but if we asked how any one temperament dealt with any other, there would be 16x16/2 = 128 combinations.

Ni is what I consider the most alien function to me. Fi, on the hand, is quite familiar. Te is so-so and Se a bit
How then are we to understand Fi? Te? Se?
 

Logic

Banned
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
174
---
Location
New Westminster, Canada
@Logic

@Pi

@Everyone

How familiar is Ni to you? It sounds amazing but I wonder how SP's deal with it.

Ni is what I consider the most alien function to me. Fi, on the hand, is quite familiar. Te is so-so and Se a bit.

Well to me the Ni function is something im constantly learning about, but there is so much more that I wish I knew. I have all this information about it in my head and I just want to connect it all together but some vital bits a still missing.

As far as SP's go I think they are more better at getting a hold of their less used functions, more so then any of the other types. I have an ESTP cousin who seems to understand his Ni and deals with it more comfortably then I do with Fe, It may be because he's older than me by about 6 years and has had more time to adjust to it, or maybe theres some other reason that I'm just not aware of.
 

Logic

Banned
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
174
---
Location
New Westminster, Canada
Yes. What I meant was one may look at differences of xNxJ's from INTP's but the results of analysis will only reveal more differences. An INTP will note those differences and rate and classify them to understand what they are, but inwardly will never agree with them for themselves.

Just think of what happens when you study a J's opinion or viewpoint. You may come to understand it but as long as you see it as a judgment as opposed to alternate truths, you will never accept it.

The business of an INTP is general truth; the business of J's is particular truth.

For me, when I notice the differences I absolutely do rate it and classify it to understand it more clearly and inwardly I may not agree with the results of the function I am fascinated by, but I just say to myself that what I think doesnt really matter too much, what matters more to me, then even my own opinion is the understanding of whatever im interested in. That I form a completely scientific based opinion. I always ask (or at least try to always ask) questions to further understand someone else's reasoning and depending on where they are wrong or where I am wrong I either adjust myself or adjust them by making them aware of their faulty logic. If logically they are wrong I will hear whatever else they have to say, and try to use some empathy.

Adymus says that its not possible to use the shadow functions. which i still dont understand why or what we are talking about in the first place. I was led to believe that Te Ni Se Fi were the shadow functions but some say that the shadow function is just Fe, I always considered Fe to just be the least used function, but i digress. The point im trying to make is simply that there may indeed be a way to use the shadow functions, so by furthering our understanding of them may just act as the key in using them. You can't manipulate something unless your aware of it.
 

Words

Only 1 1-F.
Local time
Today 3:58 PM
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
3,222
---
Location
Order
The point im trying to make is simply that there may indeed be a way to use the shadow functions, so by furthering our understanding of them may just act as the key in using them. You can't manipulate something unless your aware of it.

I actually agree and I will my explain reasoning soon.
 

BigApplePi

Banned
Local time
Today 8:58 AM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,984
---
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
Adymus says that its not possible to use the shadow functions. which i still dont understand why or what we are talking about in the first place. I was led to believe that Te Ni Se Fi were the shadow functions but some say that the shadow function is just Fe, I always considered Fe to just be the least used function
I still don't understand what Adymus said either, but I will speculate he meant an INTP can't use their shadow functions as long as they remain faithful to their INTP temperament. However I further speculate one may step outside their temperament here. Calling this "Fe" is not something I would understand unless Fe is a very broad way of acting. I could retract "stepping outside one's temperament" if Fe was allowed a very very broad interpretation. I tend not to want to do that as that is putting a great burden on a CF that plays other roles. If it plays other roles, I might as well call attention to their imitation of other temperaments.
 

Fukyo

blurb blurb
Local time
Today 2:58 PM
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
4,289
---
I was terribly bored earlier today and this stuff just started writing itself! :elephant:


The Ni description parody:

The Ni dominant Individual in a nutshell:


The most prominent characteristic of every single Ni dom individual is that they all suffer from a severe case of the "Snowflake" syndrome by default. This usually manifests as a propensity to extremely unique and convoluted thought patters which leads the individual to conclude he is in fact the only person capable of and experiencing such thoughts, despite the easily observable evidence that suggests otherwise. This causes the Ni dom individuals to be very withdrawn and reserved as they believe that they will never be understood and appreciated by an other human being. Indeed, such prolonged periods of self imposed isolation create a sort of a implied sense of superiority in the mind of the Ni dominant and they'll love nothing more than telling you how much of an unenlightened sheeple you are.
Ni doms are also characterized by their obstinate belief that they have figured out and cracked the entire Universe at a very early age compared to their peers.

Other types such as the INFP also suffer from the "Snowflake" syndrome, albeit the more lighter version. While INFPs think they are a highly unique individual in an ocean of other highly unique, speshul individuals, the Ni dom suffers from the delusion that they are the only Sane Man in an ocean of disgusting, fleshy, intellectually sub-par sleeple.


11qiu6u.jpg

[A rare photo documenting an accidental encounter of more than two Ni dominants in the wild]


Living:


Ni dominates frequently suffer from various types of mental disturbances, ranging from depression to antisocial personality disorder. This is quite normal and expected as a correlation between mental disorders and the uniqueness of thought patterns has been proven. Young and unemployed Ni doms spend the majority of their free time angsting over the "fact" that they are a square peg who'll never fit into the world's round holes. The amount of time spent angsting over their Snowflake syndrome is directly proportional to the severity of whatever metal condition they've acquired. During the brief breaks between periods of crippling depression teenage Ni doms like to indulge in some simpler pleasures of life, such as daydreaming about mentally torturing and killing off their classmates (their adult counterparts daydream during their tedious, unfulfilling jobs, usually while operating highly dangerous equipment which requires attentiveness and strong sensory awareness, leading to many ironic mutilations and deaths.) as well as ego masturbatory fantasies about how the world would be a so much better place if only they were in charge. The average person may feel sorry for the tormented Ni dom, but rest assured, it is a necessary mechanism to keep their population in check and reduce the possibility of breeding.

4YlqH.jpg

[The usual escapist fantasy]

Why are Ni dominants so rare?


While they appear unassuming and harmless to the untrained eye, Ni doms are in actuality very dangerous individuals. This means it is an imperative to maintain the delicate balance in their native ecosystems. The predatory SPs and SJs have been tasked to make sure the Ni dom population is kept at low levels at all times. This is done by employing methods such as relentless bullying and crushing all of Ni dom's dreams and aspirations to tiny bits, which in turn makes them spiral into even more isolation and depression effectively preventing reproduction. The ultimate goal is preventing bigger congregations of Ni doms forming and them engaging each other. Should two Ni doms find themselves in disagreement and happen to be unable to reach an agreement there's about a 90% probability of our Universe collapsing unto itself, and then we're all f*cked.

Evolution:

xGKgN.jpg

[Once you're seen the mastermind's true face, it will already be too late]

Some theorize the Ni doms have developed cunning, deceptive survival mechanisms to adjust to their environment by posing as SPs, avoiding their population being thinned out by the enemy, which enables them to find mates with more ease and hopefully pass on their unique genetic information. The most notable example is the INFJ Lady Gaga, a mastermind par excellence, whose evident ploy of taking over the sheeple world by masquerading has been a truly huge success. Don't be fooled by the seemingly simplistic and frivolous lyrics, they are actually webs of extremely complicated symbolism beyond the sheeple's ability to comprehend and carry embedded messages of death and destruction. and baby angel Hitler.

Sorry_guys.jpg

[The cuddly patron saint of megalomaniac Ni dominants everywhere]


Disclaimer: I don't actually know Lady Gaga's type, but I heard her being typed as an INFJ so I included it for comedic purposes. For what it's worth her presentation may come of as some combination of Ni-Se.
 

Adymus

Banned
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
2,180
---
Location
Anaheim, CA
The most prominent characteristic of every single Ni dom individual is that they all suffer from a severe case of the "Snowflake" syndrome by default.
*Sigh*

I wish this was only a joke.

I have met so many INFJs who would swear they are the only person in the world who has ever had a deep thought.

because if someone else saw what they see in their Ni before, then logically it would have already existed in the world and not just in their Ni. So clearly nobody has every thought about it.

Also: Nawww, Lady Gaga is an ENFP. And a surprisingly well developed one at that, which is why she is not as bubbly as they usually are.
 

Logic

Banned
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
174
---
Location
New Westminster, Canada
Wow, so much effort into something thats just meant for entertainment purposes. Its too bad I dont have feelings to appreciate it :borg: lol jokes, nice work.
 

Jedi

Active Member
Local time
Today 8:58 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
171
---
Ti vs Ni - Piecing together a puzzle vs drawing a sketch of what the puzzle may be ? :confused:

Te vs Fe - I know I am right vs I am right, right?

Se vs Ne - Annoying vs super awesome cool (sarcasm anyone?)
 

Logic

Banned
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
174
---
Location
New Westminster, Canada
Ti vs Ni - Piecing together a puzzle vs drawing a sketch of what the puzzle may be ? :confused:

Te vs Fe - I know I am right vs I am right, right?

Se vs Ne - Annoying vs super awesome cool (sarcasm anyone?)

Can you explain those in more detail please.
 

Jedi

Active Member
Local time
Today 8:58 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
171
---
Ti vs Ni - Piecing together a puzzle vs drawing a sketch of what the puzzle may be ?
Ti seems to reach its logical conclusions one piece at a time while Ni ... To be honest I'm still researching Ni myself and am having a tough time explaining. Not the best comparison I'll admit (FAIL)

Te vs Fe - I know I am right vs I am right, right?
Both articulate, but Fe typically wants to get along with others despite differences. Te is ruthless, welcoming differences and debate.

Se vs Ne - Annoying vs super awesome cool
Well we all know how up-its-own-ass Se can be. AHA! Se - up its own ass. Ne - up in the clouds. Or is that Ti and Ni? *shrug*
(yes I know I'm being stereotypical and unfair)

And to add:
Ni vs Ne - division vs multiplication
Ni has many patterns already recognized, and can narrow a present situation down to the correct pattern. Ne sees a situation and its pattern, then goes hog-wild creating new ideas of that same pattern.

Oh, and:

INTJ - :twisteddevil:
ISFJ - :angel:
 

cheese

Prolific Member
Local time
Tomorrow 12:58 AM
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
3,194
---
Location
internet/pubs
Hey Adymus:
What does it mean when I have sudden and extreme convictions that come out of nowhere? They don't happen that often, but they're strong when they do, and unexpected. It's like being given the complete puzzle straightaway, and only after that being given a chance to see how the pieces fit together. It's like making leaps backwards from the conclusion, seeing how all these little things led inevitably to this conviction; having this answer dropped into my lap and then working it out through the daze. It's extremely fast and definitely pattern-based.

So: Is that unconscious Ni screwing with me? I heard the sixth function being described as the Trickster before (Bebe's model I think?). It certainly feels that way, since a lot of these "insights" are whacked-out.

Or am I just going nuts? I keep hearing voices in my head talking about things completely irrelevant to what I'm thinking. It's like I get snatches of conversation that've been going on behind-the-scenes all this time, and it's interfering with my stage play (conscious thought) and I can't focus. Or something.

There's also this other thing that I haven't used in a while - the Voice. It's like a booming gong in my head and it's totally and utterly sure of itself. It tells me things about myself with weighty conviction. I'm never sure whether to believe it, since to be honest it seems a bit of a crazy git. But sometimes when out of touch with myself I turn inwards and in desperation ask it a question, then wait patiently for a response. They're often surprising, but so persuasive. What the hell is that? Lunacy or some sort of link to my unconscious?
 

Auburn

Luftschloss Schöpfer
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
2,298
---
I think INTPs are also prone to this "snowflake" syndrome to some extent?

I remember I used to be the only conscious being on earth before I was 18 too...
 

Adymus

Banned
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
2,180
---
Location
Anaheim, CA
Hey Adymus:
What does it mean when I have sudden and extreme convictions that come out of nowhere? They don't happen that often, but they're strong when they do, and unexpected. It's like being given the complete puzzle straightaway, and only after that being given a chance to see how the pieces fit together. It's like making leaps backwards from the conclusion, seeing how all these little things led inevitably to this conviction; having this answer dropped into my lap and then working it out through the daze. It's extremely fast and definitely pattern-based.

So: Is that unconscious Ni screwing with me? I heard the sixth function being described as the Trickster before (Bebe's model I think?). It certainly feels that way, since a lot of these "insights" are whacked-out.

Or am I just going nuts? I keep hearing voices in my head talking about things completely irrelevant to what I'm thinking. It's like I get snatches of conversation that've been going on behind-the-scenes all this time, and it's interfering with my stage play (conscious thought) and I can't focus. Or something.

There's also this other thing that I haven't used in a while - the Voice. It's like a booming gong in my head and it's totally and utterly sure of itself. It tells me things about myself with weighty conviction. I'm never sure whether to believe it, since to be honest it seems a bit of a crazy git. But sometimes when out of touch with myself I turn inwards and in desperation ask it a question, then wait patiently for a response. They're often surprising, but so persuasive. What the hell is that? Lunacy or some sort of link to my unconscious?
I think I know what you are talking about:

Basically, is it like an explosion of insight happened in your mind and now you are trying to pick up the pieces, but it is never really complete? Sometimes when our Ne is working really fast, we can take quick sweeps of entire and/or multiple patterns, and our Ti will resinate with it and tell us that it is agreeable, but it will be so broad and intricate, that our Si will have sort of a delayed reaction in being able to make sense of it and attach it to something tangible and known. So when we try to go back and staple all of it to a structured form, we kind of miss some pieces of the puzzle because of the fleeting nature of Ne.

There is kind of a lot of overlap in how Ne communicates with Si, that is very similar to how Ni communicates with Se.

Although, when we get insights from our other's Ni, it will not be like we are actually using it, it will be more like a rush of insights and inspiration of how you can take your theory or model further (In a Te-Ni sort of way, in the case of an INTP.) And it is not really fleeting and ethereal either. The Unconscious functions are not out to get you like John Beebe makes it sound like, that's just ridiculous.

The Booming gong you are talking about sounds like an Archetype, not a specific cognitive function. It sounds like it is your Mana (Your inner mentor) by the way it tells you things about yourself. What kind of things does it tell you specifically? And what characteristics does it have, is it like an older version of you? Not very many people are this in touch with their Archetypes so it is really cool to hear that you are. You should listen to them more often, they are there for a reason, to help you.

I think I'd rather talk about stuff like this in PMs, I feel like I am going to get harpooned for talking about Metaphysical stuff in front of a bunch of INTPs.
 

Logic

Banned
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
174
---
Location
New Westminster, Canada
Is humor also Ni based? A lot of subjective material is required for someone to pull off jokes, since it requires a similar mindset to the person or persons you are engaging in.
 

Logic

Banned
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
174
---
Location
New Westminster, Canada
I think I know what you are talking about:

Basically, is it like an explosion of insight happened in your mind and now you are trying to pick up the pieces, but it is never really complete? Sometimes when our Ne is working really fast, we can take quick sweeps of entire and/or multiple patterns, and our Ti will resinate with it and tell us that it is agreeable, but it will be so broad and intricate, that our Si will have sort of a delayed reaction in being able to make sense of it and attach it to something tangible and known. So when we try to go back and staple all of it to a structured form, we kind of miss some pieces of the puzzle because of the fleeting nature of Ne.

There is kind of a lot of overlap in how Ne communicates with Si, that is very similar to how Ni communicates with Se.

Although, when we get insights from our other's Ni, it will not be like we are actually using it, it will be more like a rush of insights and inspiration of how you can take your theory or model further (In a Te-Ni sort of way, in the case of an INTP.) And it is not really fleeting and ethereal either. The Unconscious functions are not out to get you like John Beebe makes it sound like, that's just ridiculous.

The Booming gong you are talking about sounds like an Archetype, not a specific cognitive function. It sounds like it is your Mana (Your inner mentor) by the way it tells you things about yourself. What kind of things does it tell you specifically? And what characteristics does it have, is it like an older version of you? Not very many people are this in touch with their Archetypes so it is really cool to hear that you are. You should listen to them more often, they are there for a reason, to help you.

I think I'd rather talk about stuff like this in PMs, I feel like I am going to get harpooned for talking about Metaphysical stuff in front of a bunch of INTPs.

Actually I have experienced this many times too, its amazing to actually hear all this put into words though and then explained.
 

Words

Only 1 1-F.
Local time
Today 3:58 PM
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
3,222
---
Location
Order
I feel like I am going to get harpooned for talking about Metaphysical stuff in front of a bunch of INTPs.

You're joking. Where can I get more of this stuff?
 

cheese

Prolific Member
Local time
Tomorrow 12:58 AM
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
3,194
---
Location
internet/pubs
Alright I'm going to continue this in PMs. I'm a little reluctant to let out all my crazy in permanent posts anyway. If you really are desperate to make this a forum-wide discussion, get on your knees and beg.
 

cheese

Prolific Member
Local time
Tomorrow 12:58 AM
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
3,194
---
Location
internet/pubs
With the insights thing:
I think I know what you're talking about Adymus, and I think it's different to what I meant. What you described sounds like fairly standard TiNe flashes, which to me have a TiNe feel, and are often to do with objective (not subject-oriented) ideas that are static and not time-based (eg a sudden flash into the nature of light, which I then slowly evaluate using TiNe - checking for logical consistency from all angles, and then cross-checking against Si facts) (I mean I think I do this - of course I might not be INTP, blah blah).

These other flashes are unusual in their strength of conviction and the way all the steps simply fall into place. None of the puzzle pieces are missing, and I don't have to do any mental leg-work. Plus, it's time-based and more often subject-oriented - usually to do with insights into people's motivation or character, or someone's fate.

What happens is I get this sudden conviction, and then all the bits of information about the person from different points in time that seemingly lead to that inevitable conclusion are flashed really fast in my mind, in linear form I think. It's like Conclusion, then P1-P2-P3-P4,* all tied together by this weird sense that I'm observing some natural force (I know, I'm stealing the Ni talk, but it certainly feels how NiFe sounds, although it probably isn't), and I get this overview of what's actually happening and been happening all this time, etc. And all really fast, like watching a movie and simply going along for the ride. What's funny is that thinking about it now, it seems what really ties the premises together is the conclusion. Sort of circular argument.
*this is actually just a convenient way of trying to structure my experience, but it feels more holistic; the conclusions definitely come first though

Honestly it hasn't happened that often, and has only started recently. I should note all this stuff has come (or at least become more active) within a year or so of the BOOMING VOICE OF TRUTH making its grand entrance in my noggin. I've always had the sudden convictions out of nowhere though, but often they have no justifications to offer, the slimy bastards.

I think it could be TiNe working extra fast, and maybe I'm overthinking this.

*edit
It's like a rush of images.
 

cheese

Prolific Member
Local time
Tomorrow 12:58 AM
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
3,194
---
Location
internet/pubs
Triggers:
Nothing that I know of. They just appear. Sometimes this is after mulling over it for a while, but not always, or even usually.

What I mean by movie-watching is that there's no conscious effort involved on my part, and I see a rush of images (again, not all the time) as mentioned. Visual thinking in general is fairly common though, and how I used to often think (it's become more conscious and auditory with practice and time). A bunch of snapshots from the past follow each other in quick succession in support of a conclusion. I suppose that sounds like Si?
Sometimes a bunch of stuff in the present clusters itself together in my mind and forms a conclusion as well. Like a pile of clues. That's not movie-watching though, that's just jumping to conclusions based on assumptions and stereotypes.

That's the insight-conviction. The prophetic convictions just come out of nowhere, and are usually all gloom and doom - generally for myself, but occasionally for larger groups as well.

This stuff doesn't happen all that much, so I don't have much data to go on. Also, maybe I'm just full of crap and imagining things.

*edit
I suppose with the gloomy convictions there might be some correlation with mood.
 

Maverick

pragmatic perfectionist
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
48
---
Location
Sudan
the core of Ni function is XOR
I know some will be pissed off but I'm tempted. sorry:D
 

Maverick

pragmatic perfectionist
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
48
---
Location
Sudan
I was reading lots of stuff about Ni, I quote some

intjforum
Something that is supposed to be very common in types with dominant Ni is that they know something will happen (it's just obvious based on the collected data, it's not even necessary to deduce it - it'll just come to you like a flash as soon as the data is assembled in the system), but can't explain it to other people because they've not managed to make the explanation linear enough.
To somebody with Ni as the dominant function a lot of things will seem extremely complex and you're likely to hear people tell you you're overcomplicating something (I get that all the time). Of course to you that thing really *is* that complex

You might have difficulty listening to something carefully for long because you'll get too preoccupied with searching for the hidden meanings and patterns (I usually zone out within max 30min. of a lecture - it's not that the lecture isn't worth listening to, it's just that it connects with so many other things in my head that I end up getting preoccupied with listening to my head - sometimes it takes me a long time to even realize I've zoned out

Intuition is all about relationships between ideas. Ni and Ne work with these relationships in different, complimentary ways.

Ne will start with an idea (or observation), the idea implies relationships. Ne follows the relationships to new ideas. In general, this tends to generate more and more new ideas.

Ni will start with multiple ideas, and determine the relationships between them. The relationships between ideas tend to eliminate ideas, rather than generate new ideas. With several competing ideas, the process will often leave only one "real" idea that passes.

However, Ni can also leave one with zero ideas: none of the ideas are "true." In this case, Ni starts investigating the nearby "space of ideas" for similar ideas to those being investigated, looking for an idea that is suggested by the original ideas, but will actually turn out to be true. In this case, Ni has determined that all of one's assumptions are at least slightly false, and thus looks for a new, true assumption.

Ni "gives you premonitions" by using the process as I outline above to look at what is true now and in the past, and uses the relationships between many ideas to suggest a limited set of probable outcomes, or even predict an unusual outcome by perceiving that an assumption is incorrect and replacing it with a new, true assumption.

Ni doesn't exactly "randomly connect information." The process isn't random. There is a reason that you are connecting the information. The feeling of randomness arises from the conclusions often being surprising and ironically "non-intuitive." Especially in the case of Ni discovering false assumptions, the new true assumption will imply things that could never have been derived from the false assumption.

Similarly, Ni acts as that "metaphorical x-ray" by zeroing in on false assumptions, and determining true assumptions that, in the case of an Fe user, would determine the true motivations of others, or in the case of a Te user, would determine a truth about how a process (natural or manmade) really works.
 

BigApplePi

Banned
Local time
Today 8:58 AM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,984
---
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
Very good.

So Ni's are never pissed off AND tempted???
 

BigApplePi

Banned
Local time
Today 8:58 AM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,984
---
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
I was reading lots of stuff about Ni, I quote some

intjforum
I like this you quoted --
Intuition is all about relationships between ideas. Ni and Ne work with these relationships in different, complimentary ways.

Ne will start with an idea (or observation), the idea implies relationships. Ne follows the relationships to new ideas. In general, this tends to generate more and more new ideas.

Ni will start with multiple ideas, and determine the relationships between them. The relationships between ideas tend to eliminate ideas, rather than generate new ideas. With several competing ideas, the process will often leave only one "real" idea that passes.
I wonder if conspiracy theories fall into the Ni category?
 

Maverick

pragmatic perfectionist
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
48
---
Location
Sudan
BAP
we don't mock what we don't understand or what we don't have.
if we have to, is it worse to have a subjective perception or a subjective logic ?:confused: just wondering ... whatever you pride yourself on.
 

BigApplePi

Banned
Local time
Today 8:58 AM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,984
---
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
Maverick. I made a poor joke. XOR is a good way of thinking of it. One kind of person says consider all the possibilities before you decide, then shirks on decision making. The other decides with rationalization what is good and rejects what is implied to be bad

I'm not sure I understand what you want to say with "subjective perception and subjective logic."
 

Babakau

Redshirt
Local time
Today 5:58 AM
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
17
---
Location
California
So this must be the underlying reason for an INTJs aversion to engaging in conversations where they have no level of expertise on the the topic at hand?
If there are no "pieces of the puzzle" for them to work with, there is no input data for Ni.

Ni will start with multiple ideas, and determine the relationships between them. The relationships between ideas tend to eliminate ideas, rather than generate new ideas.
The INTJs in my life (grandfather, boyfriend's dad, brother-in-law, and a close childhood friend) shut down conversations when they come to a idea or topic in which they don't have any level of expertise.

I previously was under the impression that this was because INTJs are driven to know everything about what they want to know. But that this turned into a limiter to them, because stuff that they weren't interested in, they had no knowledge of, and the only thing they did know was that they didn't know anything about the unfamiliar topic.

This may be what is going on, but additionally, perhaps an INTJ's reaction is them looking inward for the tools to engage in a conversation where the topic is unfamiliar to them, and upon looking inward, the Ni looks back with its hands empty because of the lack of "puzzle pieces" to work with.

(I know there are other Ni dominants besides INTJ, and this possibly applies to them as well, but I use INTJ as an example because they can be particularly frustrating to many people, because INTJs can be found to be VERY knowledgeable in certain areas, but when you try to engage with them on other topics outside their realm of expertise, they can tend to shut down pretty quickly, and they don't have a secondary Fe like INFJs to soften the blow of not wanting to/being able to engage in a dialogue/debate with you)
 

Maverick

pragmatic perfectionist
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
48
---
Location
Sudan
NB:there are many assumptions here so bear with me.
Yesterday I was reading about Ni in L.T exegesis wiki. It contains valuable information.

This proposed definition intrigues me.

Introverted Intuition is the attitude of attunement to what cannot be said, by virtue of the structuring that "saying" requires.
I guess the more you get this definition applied (not exclusive to "saying") the more you get a better understanding of Ni.

I guess Ni is difficult to understand because Ni-doms only can tell "what's Ni?".
I think unless someone adopts another way of articulation, the default would be directed towards those with similar mind (at least the perceptive part). In other words Ni dom speaks to Ni dom. that's why when Ni dom tries to explain an idea (e.g what's Ni?) will actually complicate it (better left unexplained).




P.S
Ni is like unconscious Ti-Ne fermentation box which pops perspective to the conscious.
I know Adymus will struggle the temptation to shout "no one is able to reach their other functions". But what if they are where they are and keep posting to us?. It's like you wake up with a perspective.
 

Maverick

pragmatic perfectionist
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
48
---
Location
Sudan
NB:there are many assumptions here so bear with me.
Yesterday I was reading about Ni in L.T exegesis wiki. It contains valuable information.

This proposed definition intrigues me.

Introverted Intuition is the attitude of attunement to what cannot be said, by virtue of the structuring that "saying" requires.
I guess the more you get this definition applied (not exclusive to "saying") the more you get a better understanding of Ni.

I guess Ni is difficult to understand because Ni-doms only can tell "what's Ni?".
I think unless someone adopts another way of articulation, the default would be directed towards those with similar mind (at least the perceptive part). In other words Ni dom speaks to Ni dom. that's why when Ni dom tries to explain an idea (e.g what's Ni?) will actually complicate it (better left unexplained).




P.S
Ni is like unconscious Ti-Ne fermentation box which pops perspective to the conscious.
I know Adymus will struggle the temptation to shout "no one is able to reach their other functions". But what if they are where they are and keep posting to us?. It's like you wake up with a perspective.
 

ijustprotectedmyidentity

Active Member
Local time
Today 1:58 PM
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
103
---
Location
in theory
my father is an Ni dom with Te backing it up

here are some examples of Ni imo

when at church he said close the door i said y he said cuz the ac be running

when at lunch there were 2 holes in the table. one on one side of the table and the other on the other side

he asked me why there are holes there i said idk

he said because if u are sitting next to strangers, they waiter can put a glass between you and the stranger.

i said u dont know that for sure you are just guessing but nonetheless a brilliant guess and i cannot think of one better
 

ijustprotectedmyidentity

Active Member
Local time
Today 1:58 PM
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
103
---
Location
in theory
So this must be the underlying reason for an INTJs aversion to engaging in conversations where they have no level of expertise on the the topic at hand?
If there are no "pieces of the puzzle" for them to work with, there is no input data for Ni.

The INTJs in my life (grandfather, boyfriend's dad, brother-in-law, and a close childhood friend) shut down conversations when they come to a idea or topic in which they don't have any level of expertise.

I previously was under the impression that this was because INTJs are driven to know everything about what they want to know. But that this turned into a limiter to them, because stuff that they weren't interested in, they had no knowledge of, and the only thing they did know was that they didn't know anything about the unfamiliar topic.

This may be what is going on, but additionally, perhaps an INTJ's reaction is them looking inward for the tools to engage in a conversation where the topic is unfamiliar to them, and upon looking inward, the Ni looks back with its hands empty because of the lack of "puzzle pieces" to work with.

(I know there are other Ni dominants besides INTJ, and this possibly applies to them as well, but I use INTJ as an example because they can be particularly frustrating to many people, because INTJs can be found to be VERY knowledgeable in certain areas, but when you try to engage with them on other topics outside their realm of expertise, they can tend to shut down pretty quickly, and they don't have a secondary Fe like INFJs to soften the blow of not wanting to/being able to engage in a dialogue/debate with you)

i believe that to be true. if an intp doesnt know about the subject he is willing to make logical guesses and using Ne to take him as far as he can go
 

ckm

still swimming
Local time
Today 1:58 PM
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
435
---
Location
Cork
Is there a Knights who say Ni joke in here? Too lazy to read.
 
Top Bottom