Type a Gobshite...

[Melkor]

Greetings.
Today I decided to take another online MBTI test.

I know what you're thinking, they're dreadfully inaccurate aren't they? Even if every one I've done to date slates me as an INTP, I can't help but shake the distrust I feel towards them.
This one for example, was somewhat unscientific... One was required not to give a straightforward answer to a straightforward question, rather, they are asked a simple enough personal statement, in conjunction with another, and presented with a ratio, a bunch of click-able dots, five I think... One statement to the left, and one to the right,
Presumably being to the extreme left makes one entirely inclined to the left hand side statement, the extreme right to the right hand statement, and somewhere in-between being varying states of agreeableness.

Odd isn't it? Though fun I suppose...

Rather than displaying only the most likely type, it showed all statistical probabilities of each type, with the more prominent being larger and bolder.
It in fact claimed that I was 92% INTJ, 86% ISTJ, 85% INTP, 80%ENTJ, and curiously, only 53% ENTP, which most of you seem to be betting on.

I honestly don't think I'm an INTJ, not unless I'm a severely dysfunctional and delusional one , and INTJ's don't seem to be as... quirky? Chaotically Imaginative? Useless?

Many of you will of course think that not even two of those four functions are my dominant ones...

Although curiously, no-one I know in person thinks me to be an Extrovert, though the large majority of the forum thinks me to be so.

Of course, people I know in person also think I'm 'asexual', 'poetic', 'level headed' and 'wordy' (All exact wordings), and... well, I don't even need to make the contrast to each of what the forum thinks.

So, I'm simply asking you, that is, the bunch of oddities with the dreadful taste that seem to insist on raising my profile views high enough to give me a constant sense of paranoia and several migraines, to give an opinion.
I've known most of you for two years, and told some of you things I should never have told anyone, so i think you might be well poised to help.

Thank you in advance.

Should I include a poll?

I'll do it later...

 

[EyeSeeCold]

ESINFJTP?

 

[Melkor]

ESINFJTP?

Thank you.

I take it I select the letters I want and ignore the rest?

Only, I don't really have any particular MBTI I'd like to have... I have certain personality stereotypes that I'd find interesting to try on...but really, whats the point in wishing to be something if you don't know what you are to begin with?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Try this:
1.) Which do you prefer first and foremost, Sensing, Logic or Intuition?

2.) Which do you prefer occasionally, Sensing, Logic or Intuition?

3.) Are you usually in a low energy state or or you usually in a high energy state?

 

[Minuend]

Two things surprise me:

1. Nobody has been all "post a video, dude!"

2. There hasn't been a single insult.

Anyways. Yeah, I can see an INTP in you, Melkor. That endless stream of chatter you've got going on I have as well when I'm in a good mood in an environment where I feel "safe" or whatever. I would also seek acknowledgement the way you do if I allowed myself to be vulnerable <--- I can barely even write that word.

I don't think you're a J. It's either INTP or ENTP.

 

[cheese]

I think you could be an INFJ.

 

[Minuend]

Tchh, we're supposed to be a team, cheese! Everything I say you agree with!

 

[cheese]

You mean like when you're screaming in enthusiastic agreement while in a horizontal position?

 

[Minuend]

What can I say? When you exposed yourself so, I thought you would allow me to dissect that certain part of you to study those rare viruses you are carrying.

 

[cheese]

What can I say?

What CAN you say? Weren't you programmed with more than 'yes/more'? Should I try different combinations on your buttons?

When you exposed yourself so, I thought you would allow me to dissect that certain part of you to study those rare viruses you are carrying.

What's mine is yours, honey pie

 

[Minuend]

What CAN you say? Weren't you programmed with more than 'yes/more'? Should I try different combinations on your buttons?

Well, maybe if you were more efficient getting me tea I could spend time saying other stuff as well.

What's mine is yours, honey pie

Good, 'cause I already used your credit card on fluffy cat statues.

 

[Anthile]

Greetings.
Today I decided to take another online MBTI test.

I know what you're thinking, they're dreadfully inaccurate aren't they? Even if every one I've done to date slates me as an INTP, I can't help but shake the distrust I feel towards them.
This one for example, was somewhat unscientific... One was required not to give a straightforward answer to a straightforward question, rather, they are asked a simple enough personal statement, in conjunction with another, and presented with a ratio, a bunch of click-able dots, five I think... One statement to the left, and one to the right,
Presumably being to the extreme left makes one entirely inclined to the left hand side statement, the extreme right to the right hand statement, and somewhere in-between being varying states of agreeableness.

Odd isn't it? Though fun I suppose...

Rather than displaying only the most likely type, it showed all statistical probabilities of each type, with the more prominent being larger and bolder.
It in fact claimed that I was 92% INTJ, 86% ISTJ, 85% INTP, 80%ENTJ, and curiously, only 53% ENTP, which most of you seem to be betting on.

I honestly don't think I'm an INTJ, not unless I'm a severely dysfunctional and delusional one , and INTJ's don't seem to be as... quirky? Chaotically Imaginative? Useless?

Many of you will of course think that not even two of those four functions are my dominant ones...

Although curiously, no-one I know in person thinks me to be an Extrovert, though the large majority of the forum thinks me to be so.

Of course, people I know in person also think I'm 'asexual', 'poetic', 'level headed' and 'wordy' (All exact wordings), and... well, I don't even need to make the contrast to each of what the forum thinks.

So, I'm simply asking you, that is, the bunch of oddities with the dreadful taste that seem to insist on raising my profile views high enough to give me a constant sense of paranoia and several migraines, to give an opinion.
I've known most of you for two years, and told some of you things I should never have told anyone, so i think you might be well poised to help.

Thank you in advance.

Should I include a poll?

I'll do it later...

You still worry about this?

Well, if you really want to know... your actual type is ICBW.

Spoiler

I think you could be an INFJ.

Yes, don't you feel how Minuend's waves of love perfuse all of us?

 

[Minuend]

Cava usually tells me I'm Mother Teresa reincarnated

You know, without all that charity crap and "helping less fortunate souls" shit.

On a related note; I like to consider myself Cava's favourite

 

[Words]

I think you could be an INFJ.

I got the same impression.

---

Melkor, how'd you find INFJforum?

 

[The Gopher]

So what test is it?

 

[cheese]

Well, maybe if you were more efficient getting me tea I could spend time saying other stuff as well.

I haven't found out how to make tea from your particular brew yet, though the temperature's about right.

Good, 'cause I already used your credit card on fluffy cat statues.

Meh. Are dinosaurs really that rough? ARE THEY?!

 

[Melkor]

You know, I'm rather dissapointed by the lack of postulation going on here, but I'm also vagulely relieved.

 

[Melkor]

You know, I'm rather dissapointed by the lack of postulation going on here, but I'm also vagulely relieved.

He's right you know!
Someone come along and tell me something which I by right should know myself, and which by logic I'm the best person to figure it out...

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Mother fucking functions..?

And tell us what the goddamn test was.

 

[Puffy]

I know I probably don't know you too well Melkor but I can't help but agree with Cheese and Words. INFJ was my initial reaction.

 

[Melkor]

Having Met and spent some time with Lor, she was initially unable to decide between INTP and ENTP, so I was XNTP for a while.

I suspect this is because while I was usually the one pressing conversations and breaking the silence, when it came to talking to any adults other than her, I tended to shrink back and let Lor do her (spectacularly refined) social chameleon trick.

(Hahaha, it was brilliant, she'd be like *BEAM* 'Oh yes! Lovely day! Uh-huh? We're looking for 'x'. Could you help? That's great! Baaai!'. And then she'd turn away and her smile would just vanish and she'd look fatigued, a bit annoyed, and would roll her eyes and mutter something offensive about the person.)

She has since decided I'm probably ENTP because when we went for a terribly terribly long walk over the coast and it's many many hills, I insisted on listening to Pink Floyd. Which supposedly means I'm constantly trying to extract stimulation from the enviroment and sometimes it just isn't enough?

*Shrug*

Thoughts? 0-0

 

[Puffy]

^ Sorry I posted that during the "EVERYBODY-AH INFJ!" phase (in an enthusiastic Mario/ Luigi accent, of course.)

I believe reading someone's type from their writing is possible, as there are certain tendencies I've noticed, but I think it's really difficult. Plus of your 5000+ posts I'm not that familiar with a great deal of them, just because you posted a lot before I joined. (:

I'm personally not sure about Ne or Ni with yourself. I guess I could summarise by talking about the difference between myself and my Sister's essay writing (she is an ENTP, I am an INFJ, Ne vs. Ni dominant).

When I approach an essay, I think of it as a sort of whole. I will think upon the topic, take in all the reading I think covers the neccesities, and then to plan I will read all my notes, remove everything that is not relevant and create a holistic plan, an essay that is a self-contained whole.

My Sister, she'll look at the title and brain-storm. Her walls around essay time are filled with brain-storm upon brain-storm. She'll be like, idea, idea, idea, and so struggles bringing the essay into a sort of organised structure, because it will start on one idea spring to the next, and struggle to maintain itself coherently.

I'll be like idea, idea, idea, as well, but when ideas come to me I automatically see them as fitting within a certain framework. So while my essays can go off on lots of different tangents it's always tied within a framework relevant to the question.

Now, if I think about this in terms of writing on forums.. When I come to a post I have a basic idea of what I want to write before I write, and the post will revolve around that given idea, perhaps going off on tangents, and of course sometimes just being random (Ni peeps can have fun as well ). But you can see that kind of structure.

Now Ne doms I have written with. Christ. Quite often, it is just a block of writing, I mean one paragraph that just springs from thought to thought. There was a pod'lair member called Nysamis, or something like that who posted a few times, and if you read her posts I think you would see what I mean. Large text blocks, tons of ideas, springing from next to next (she said she was an ENFP, or maybe INFP). It's why Ni and Ne make an interesting pair, Ne is a springboard, Ni is good at bringing structure and clarity to it.

Personally, I also think of the Arena here as being quite Ni heavy. Ni are good actors because they can most realistically conceive a whole character and disembody themselves enough to live it.

Personally, I think you have Ni from as best I can judge Melkor, but it's a thin line, I'm not sure. I do personally believe that the "people reading" techniques have a degree of truth to them, and I'd happily have a go at a vid if you wanted me to in private (though I'm a novice, I know people who are better than myself.

At the same time, the idea of assigning someone an identity via reading has it's own unpleasantness to me as well. I'm not sure what I think of it, so I don't mind if you don't want to. I only offer because you've revived this thread a few times, implying that you want to be read in detail.

 

[EditorOne]

Some of us may be comfortable typing from forum postings, but I'm not, so I haven't commented. And I'd not be comfortable doing it in person, either.

Personally, the tests nailed me every single time, with the only problem being that some of the ones I took when I was on an executive training track didn't use the Myers Briggs terminology, they'd tried to use it but make it look like it was their own brand or something, so I'd come out "architect" or "analyst." When I went for my own career advancement training, I finally got a Myers Briggs test straight up, it was emphatically INTP, and I experienced much the same epiphany others talk about as the characteristics of the personality type were read off, like someone had finally gotten inside my head and actually knew who I was. All the tests I still take for the heck of it and the ones I still had to take because corporations worry they might hire a CEO who ISN'T a sociopath still made me out to be a visionary diffident guy who, horror, didn't always keep the crayon color inside the lines and never went from one dot to the next like a good CEO is supposed to do. Ca vie.

So I say you and anyone else wandering about and worrying about nailing it down find a way to get professional oversight. Some of the tests and some of the "explainers" of the test are very good at insight and at practical application.

A lot of us can develop ambivalence because, aware of type in the first place, we notice that we sometimes are one way and sometimes are another, and attribute weight to that which further feeds the ambivalence. (With that kind of ambivalence, we can probably eliminate "J", but that's just an aside.) The point is, every introvert has comfort zones and can display extroversion, every extrovert occasionally needs a moment to herself, even Js get tired of evaluating, and even a thinker sometimes enjoys acting on emotions. Putting all that in perspective is why someone who deals with this junk for a living is a good person to seek out.

 

[NoID10ts]

^ I strongly agree with that. I'm surprised at how loosely people throw out a "you're a INWhatever" around here as if they really know that other person.

Personally, I'd never even heard of MBTI until I sought help for depression from a counselor. He gave me the test and I came out INTP, although he said I was borderline J. He'd pretty much assessed as much after our first couple of meetings, the test just confirmed it. That's what brought me here, in fact, so blame him for it.

 

[Puffy]

^ It depends, what do you mean when you say "really know someone"? If you know their type do you really know them?

The types, as described, seem to be built around the description of tools that people have available - their functions. I'm not sure you can say you can build someone entirely from the tools they use, it sounds like quite a scientific/ mechanical perspective either way. Like, someone with a good understanding of these tools can explain to me why I find horror films stimulating, what aspect of these tools is stimulated by it, but it's not so formulaic, will everyone with my set of tools find horror films stimulating? Nope.

"Personality" is a misleading term to me, I'm not sure if it is personality it describes, so much as a disposition.

I find people reading, as proposed by Adymus here originally, interesting because as it is on the forum MBTI's all talk. Someone takes a test comes out with a result, and there's no way anyone can challenge it. Worse, many take it on individually and all come up with private definitions for each function and type - that provides no fixed basis for everyone to communicate and expand their understanding.

But really, if I'm honest I feel this is because people don't want a nuanced understanding of type here, in general, and more specifically we don't want to challenge people's types, because let's be honest we're a community, and to us it hardly matters if "INTP" is a real thing or not, it's an invisible tag that we use to bind ourselves, and say "we're in the same boat of life, guys & gals." People join with the same feeling Editor describes, they come for what they expect to be a like-minded community. I describe myself as an INFJ, yet when I'm here I feel treated as a fellow INTP, regardless.

But, if this stuff really wants to leave paper - literally leave writing - there needs to be a way it can actually be tested and observed. Adymus and co think they can see it in body language, I think I can see the pattern they describe. Writing is a lot more difficult to construct from, because it's meditated, people can create whatever effect they want. But that's why I would only say "I guess Ni, but it's a thin line." I don't know. But, if there's a future in typology, I think it's in people reading, observing fixed patterns, sharing them, exploring mutually.

 

[NoID10ts]

^ It depends, what do you mean when you say "really know someone"? If you know their type do you really know them?

All I can do is speak for myself, I guess it would defeat the point to do otherwise. You see me on this forum and I might come across as extroverted, for example. But no one here has ever seen me in real life, nor do they know that no one would ever, ever, EVER describe me as an extrovert in real life. Any extroversion I'm able to muster in day to day interactions is learned.

I may seem sure of myself with regards to religion or philosophy, for instance, my reactions and responses may seem quick, certain, and unbending, but no one has seen the years of experience or the silent thought I've put into it. Nor can they sense the hesitancy that might come across if they were looking into my eyes or hearing my voice.

I might seem quick witted and funny in written word (?), but I certainly don't come across that way in real life unless I'm very comfortable. I write emails to my whole staff regularly, they always comment on how funny the emails are, but also comment on the fact that they would never imagine I could write such things.

Some seem to assume that I'm a drinker, but I almost never drink and have only been significantly drunk once in my life. I've never done drugs, and I've never been promiscuous. If you've read my sillier posts, you might not believe that, but it's absolutely true.

What we see here is each others interior worlds, our thoughts, our freedom to say things we wouldn't say in real life. We don't see vocal inflections and eye flutters, uncomfortable postures, delayed response times, smiles, tears, and sometimes sarcasm. All this to say, when Melkor asks what type I think he is, I can think of a broad range of possibilities for how I could be very accurate or grossly inaccurate with any response I might give.

Most of us really don't know each other. Most of us are essentially strangers regardless of how long we've been on this forum.

BUT ... what do I know? I'm no expert on this stuff and to be honest, I don't even really care. The INTP label, for me, was novel when I first heard of it, but the novelty wore out a long time ago.

As for the stuff about Adymus, I've never really had an opinion about it, other than a mild annoyance at anyone telling anyone else with absolute certainty something they really don't seem to be in a position to know.

But again, what do I know? The older I get, the stupider I feel.

 

[Puffy]

^ It's why I'm uncomfortable about it's methods - I mentioned it briefly in the last paragraph. I'm not even sure I'd like to read Melkor, it just occurred to me at the time because he'd revived this thread a few times.

It's strange, but it actually reminds me of the film Cannibal Holocaust. :P At one point in the film the tribesmen say they feared that the director and his crew had the ability to capture the human spirit with the camera. And well, through the camera itself that director basically debases the whole community - defining them as savages, taking away their ability to define themselves.

Similarly, it's like if you're caught on people reader's camera something of yourself is taken away, all private space, the ability to define who you are. It's a major problem to me, and one I want to keep thinking on because I think it's important.

Because either way, you're right, we don't see much of each other "off-camera." Us trying to build models of each other from our words is a tad difficult. But if you had a physical compendium to contruct type from (and of course, if it actually had genuine patterns to it) then you might be able to.

I guess the pressing question to me is, what would people do with it? How much of human society and history could it explain - who would abuse it, how would they abuse it?

If it's true, I almost fancy the prospect of just going into poker, having an unfair people reading advantage over everyone, and just keeping it to myself.

 

[EditorOne]

"If you know their type do you really know them?"

No. But I would know the kind of impatient scorn I'd reap if, for instance, I tried to explain to an ESFJ higher up how our company processes needed to be revamped. "Just give me the facts, dammit!" So I restructure my presence and presentation to fit the type I'm dealing with rather than expecting them to understand it the way I do.

It's a utilitarian thing, in that respect. But as you note, INTPs cluster here in what amounts to a bat cave because it's almost automatically a comfort zone where we know nobody is going to frizzle because someone's a bit forthright with a thought and we don't need 5,000 words to explain how alienated we feel/felt: We get that, our vehicle is already equipped with all the standard INTP features, we don't need them explained the way we sometimes have to (try to) explain ourselves to the other 96 percent or whatever it is.

As noted, we are seeing each other's minds in here, not whether we like diet green cold tea as opposed to chocolate milk. I've noticed a range of tastes not just in food but in art, literature, video games, etc. What we have a pretty good idea about is our shared process preferences or something.

:smiley_emoticons_mr

 

[speiss]

http://typelogic.com/entp.html

ENTPs are usually verbally as well as cerebrally quick, and generally love to argue--both for its own sake, and to show off their debating skills. ENTPs tend to have a perverse sense of humor as well, and enjoy playing devil's advocate.

ENTPs have little patience with those they consider wrongheaded or unintelligent, and show little restraint in demonstrating this. In general, however, they are genial, even charming, when not being harassed by life.

The best approach in communicating with an ENTP is to be straightforward. No games – they’ll win. No "pulling rank" – they’ll just want to put you in your place. No apologies – you’ll undermine yourself.

http://www.personalitypage.com/ENTP.html

They are constantly absorbing ideas and images about the situations they are presented in their lives. Using their intuition to process this information, they are usually extremely quick and accurate in their ability to size up a situation.

They get excited and enthusiastic about their ideas, and are able to spread their enthusiasm to others.

ENTPs are less interested in developing plans of actions or making decisions than they are in generating possibilities and ideas.

The ENTP who has not developed their Thinking process will have problems with jumping enthusiastically from idea to idea, without following through on their plans.

They love to debate issues, and may even switch sides sometimes just for the love of the debate.

http://www.personalitydesk.com/entp#axzz1jBhFZLPf

They are confident in their ability to think creatively, and may assume that others are too tied to tradition to see a new way.

They usually want to be seen as clever and may try to impress others with their quick wit and incisive humor.

If my opinion holds any weight Kitkat, I would assume you were ENTP from the profiles, although nothing is for certain, yes? I find that when I read the INTP profiles, the characteristics were very internal, and have required reflection on part of the INTP themselves. Thus, it's hard for someone who has interacted with the person to really recognize these traits unless they have shared their analyses about their personalities, deep, critical ones, with them. And perhaps you only seem like an ENTP on the outside.

But as opposed to myself, of whom I'm pretty sure is an INTP (but as I said, nothing is certain!), you seem much more aware of the outside world, and are comfortable with more external responsibility. Though despite knowing you for quite a while I'm not as in tune to your personality as Lor is, so I'm thinking you should keep on respecting whatever she thinks.

Though my knowledge when it comes to MBTI is fairly limited -- I just know what I know from the sources I just shared with you. Like you said, I think the most effective way of correctly speculating your personality type is within you and no one else, though sometimes it is nice to have revealed to you the opinions of others. If you were in fact ENTP, then they might just be a bit more spot-on!

Also, taking personality tests can sometimes be a bit tricky because you sometimes answer the questions based on what you want as the outcome, or how have people have perceived you incorrectly, or how you wish to be even though you aren't. Honesty is key with things, and sometimes the truth isn't exactly something you want to uncover just yet.

Maybe you're just an INTP who, due to his environment and nervousness and affection for those around him, seems more ENTP-esque.

Or maybe not!

 

[Melkor]

Hrm. Some of those apply, others do not.

However, it may just be a case of perceived importance or ego...
If one reads 'This type is amusing and clever', of course their gut reaction is 'Oh! That's me down to a T!', and few of the ENTP descriptions are negative.

Thanks Ed, you're always quite welcome to throw your tuppence in. ^.^

I have to agree with you, we all seem to be running on the same operating system, despite the various different ways we implement it.

Despite how I might differ from the wider community, I do feel there is something on this forum that a number of us share, which allows us a certain fluency when it comes to describing our inner processes. Something we would struggle to do elsewhere.

It's quite comforting.

 

[cheese]

Noddy, I'd agree that it's very likely a lot of us are different off-forum than we are on it, but does that mean we don't 'really know' each other? Do the people in RL 'really know' us? I don't feel known, or understood. Perhaps parts of me are, but the other parts, the hidden inner stuff that we don't talk about - that's invisible. Most people *don't* know me; they know an interface. And the same could be said here. But at least here we're freer to talk in some ways, and so the things we *really* think and feel are sincere, and the behaviour we'd exhibit if completely uninhibited is more like us inside.

For the record, I've read in several places that relationships originating on the internet have a higher likelihood of succeeding. (The definition of 'success' varied though - for one site it was simply managing to make it to the third [or something] date, which is apparently quite a feat when compared with dates who are RL contacts.] One of the possible reasons suggested was the fact that it's easier to be open and yourself, and it's easier to find someone like you instead of being geographically limited.

Other problems get in the way of course - your external persona is a part of your day-to-day self as well, and that kind of information isn't usually available online.

But I certainly wouldn't dismiss the insights here in favour of the ones out there. Both are blinded in their own ways, and both see more than the other can in other ways.