Turnarounds

[Pyropyro]

I'm at my late twenties now but it seems that I'm switching life goals again. It seems that my ambition to found my own business seems to stem from a forced ambition to subconsciously please my ESTJ father and honor my family (the perks of being an Asian male :P). Oddly, my family and my father have given up pressuring me (they're learning to make peace with their own demons) but I'm still struggling to stop burdening myself (Get a GF, get a good job, have your own house, don't bring shame your family etc.). I guess old habits die hard.

I'm not abandoning business though. I believe I can be better off as the Gandalf or Spock that supports the entrepreneur rather than being the entrepreneur himself. Others see that too, especially my parents.

What I really like is to write stuff: Formal research, comparing inventions, romance novels, children's literature, etc. anything under the sun actually (well I haven't written any erotica yet so there...). Heck, I wrote my own fairy tales when I was a child when I got bored with Grimm's. At the end of the day, I wish to write things that can help people develop and solve problems on their own. I also have grown the affinity to grow with other people which I hope would further develop. Somewhere down the road, I got discouraged from my passion and took the more "secure" road of office work. But the writer just won't die, there are lots of times that I manipulated or argued away my workload to get the least amount of paperwork and the greatest amounts of writing and research.

Honestly, I'm afraid. I have announced to my friends that I'll make a social enterprise now that I have quit my job and they might be expecting a lot from me. However, a part of me also tells me that I might be overestimating how much these guys care about my plans. I still want to do so but for now I just want to write.

Anyways, have you guys experienced such turnarounds in your life? Am I finally seeing the fair Fe lady at the end of the fractal Ne tunnel?

Somehow I feel that the tunnel, in all its complexity, is a loop. I just came back to where I was before (childhood) but I have an older set of eyes to view it.

 

[NaturalOrder]

Funny - I was considering this part of the INTP profile on Personality Junkie about an hour ago...your inclination to write sounds reminiscent of the Dr's desire to appeal to a public audience (as opposed to academic)...I'm considering much the same things relative to my life (course) at present...but then I'm 15 years older than you. Anyway cheers to being ahead of the curve in being so self-aware :

http://personalityjunkie.com/the-intp/3/

"Desire for Affirmation/Validation
Fe involves making connections between one’s own emotions and those of others. When a successful connection occurs, it results in a sense of validation, of being valued and understood. While INTPs can do at fair job at reading others’ emotions and are cognitively aware of the appropriate social response, they often do not “feel” what others are feeling. Despite this difficulty in connecting with others on a feeling level, their Fe still desires the same sense of affirmation and validation that FJs readily receive when engaging with people. This need for affirmation can be seen as a motivating force behind INTPs’ desire for achievement. It is why many INTPs score high as Enneagram Threes (3) and display certain narcissistic tendencies. Personally, I never understood my desire to write for a popular audience (rather than an academic one) until I recognized that my Fe was pushing for widespread affirmation.
Because INTPs, wittingly or not, rely on others for affirmation, they may often feel they cannot live without at least one other person in their lives. At other times, they can feel incredibly independent (Ti). Especially when their work is going well, they may feel they don’t really need other people. If they manage to completely isolate themselves from others, they will soon begin to feel that something important is missing from their lives. This prompts them to reinitiate contact with others, at least until they feel compelled to assert their independence again. This cycle of alternating between needing and devaluing others is common among INTPs and narcissists alike."

 

[Architect]

Anyways, have you guys experienced such turnarounds in your life?

... oooo ... sorry, I'm on the floor laughing my poor, sorry ass off. Yeah, we have.

Am I finally seeing the fair Fe lady at the end of the fractal Ne tunnel?

At your late 20's? I'd give you the likely answer but you probably wouldn't like it.

 

[TimeAsylums]

...

At your late 20's? I'd give you the likely answer but you probably wouldn't like it.

Personally, I would love such an analysis heheheh.

 

[Architect]

Personally, I would love such an analysis heheheh.

Drenth suggests that an INTP is unlikely to reach having a philosophical platform for finding convergent truth until the second half of their life, that means in their 40's. In my experience there are other factors in midlife (40's) that would positively contribute to an INTP discovering this too.

What is a "philosophical platform"? It's a broad Fe philosophy that allows an INTP's Ti to work within, and towards some broadly "convergent Fe goal". Vague terms but necessarily since these goals can be quite diverse. I think the discovery of this goal must involve the personality and thus previous life history (Si), so it can be quite individualistic.

That is probably the way it is for most INTP's, however there are counter examples. One - our poster child Albert Einstein. He found his interest of Physics quite early and stuck with it. He also didn't do much outside of it, other than play the violin a little bit and putter around in a sail boat. For him the "convergent philosophy" was that of a Deist universe following rational rules.

Another is an INTP friend of mine (and yes he is definitely an INTP) who found EE early in life. He doesn't do much outside of that, when he goes home he watches old movies to unwind and turn off the brain (as Einstein used the sailboat for). He's been quite satisfied with what he's done though.

Those seem to be more the exception, for most of us we seem to have to go through gut wrenching search for a platform that allows us work and find truth.

For completeness (and just to piss off those who complain about my verbose posts) I'll tell my little story. Which I've done before but it's worth repeating in this context. I actually found my "passion" or "philosophical platform" quite early, but it took some 40 years to realize it (scared yet?) On the flip side, because of my overarching interest in this field I actually worked in it nearly my entire life, I just didn't realize the importance of it until quite late. Of course the answer was technology/computing. Other paths I tried were art, science, being a bum/armchair philosopher, etc.

It actually started when I was a young guy and saw one of the new Pong games. Don't laugh - this was amazing. I'd never seen anything like it before in my life. I knew about radar displays (which used the same technology) but this was something really different that had never been seen on the planet before. Blew me away. Anyhow so I always did something with computers and eventually became a programmer but it wasn't until my 40's that I realized that this was what I was searching for.

The philosophical platform is simply technology. Mankind is where it is, entirely due to our technology. If not for that we would still be bashing heads in with rocks. Working in technology - conceived broadly, provides a philosophy and goal to continue to work toward "convergent truth", which might be thought of as the Singularity.

Yep.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Er im an entp.

Ive alreay reqd pjs life analysis, I washoping for somehig more specific crom you boo
Nonetheless good pst

 

[Architect]

Er im an entp.

Obviously.

Ive alreay reqd pjs life analysis, I washoping for somehig more specific crom you boo Nonetheless good pst

This is tricky and detailed stuff, I'm really only knowledgeable about the INTP and to some degree the INFP and was mainly responding to the original poster.

However in general all types are searching for (as Drenth says) a marriage between their dominant and inferior. The form of what this takes and how they get there differs. SJ types seem to be born with it, or get that union very early. Go figure, they come into the world with plenty of role models and preprogrammed roles to drop into.

ENTP .... Ne - Si, hmm, that's interesting. Taking a stab at it I see the need for change and growth/exploration (Ne), with the goal of integrating the new with the past (Si), especially the personal past. Given that Si tends toward the nostalgic/tragic somewhat, and the past you've got the paradox (all dom-inferior involves paradox) or reconciling the future (Ne) with the past (Si).

Considering TimeAsylums posts on this site this seems to correspond with these ideas. I see searching out, but also searching within for integration. If true this seems to differ from the INTP who needs a platform to give meaning and context (Fe) to their work, where perhaps the ENTP needs process to do the same, or perhaps to help them keep all four wheels on the road.

Yes, you need a way to be a wanderer without ever losing yourself. Given that your Si is weak (inferior) you are in danger of losing that as you continually search and wander (Ne). This might explain the searching, somewhat haunted look I see in the eyes of ENTP's.

Steve Jobs was an ENTP I think and might provide a good role model. In his case he found it by having a purpose and a goal to define his search.

 

[Fukyo]

Er im an entp.

Ive alreay reqd pjs life analysis, I washoping for somehig more specific crom you boo
Nonetheless good pst

Seriously...take the time to type things out properly, or don't post at all. The forum will still be here when you're back from vacation.

 

[Coolydudey]

Seriously...take the time to type things out properly, or don't post at all. The forum will still be here when you're back from vacation.

I'm pretty sure he did it on purpose...

 

[Pyropyro]

Funny - I was considering this part of the INTP profile on Personality Junkie about an hour ago...your inclination to write sounds reminiscent of the Dr's desire to appeal to a public audience (as opposed to academic)...I'm considering much the same things relative to my life (course) at present...but then I'm 15 years older than you. Anyway cheers to being ahead of the curve in being so self-aware :

http://personalityjunkie.com/the-intp/3/

Thanks. Yeah Fe is such a harsh mistress. I'm thinking that she's the Trickster and our Conscience at the same time. I don't know, just like Loki.

 

[Pyropyro]

Drenth suggests that an INTP is unlikely to reach having a philosophical platform for finding convergent truth until the second half of their life, that means in their 40's. In my experience there are other factors in midlife (40's) that would positively contribute to an INTP discovering this too.

What is a "philosophical platform"? It's a broad Fe philosophy that allows an INTP's Ti to work within, and towards some broadly "convergent Fe goal". Vague terms but necessarily since these goals can be quite diverse. I think the discovery of this goal must involve the personality and thus previous life history (Si), so it can be quite individualistic.

That is probably the way it is for most INTP's, however there are counter examples. One - our poster child Albert Einstein. He found his interest of Physics quite early and stuck with it. He also didn't do much outside of it, other than play the violin a little bit and putter around in a sail boat. For him the "convergent philosophy" was that of a Deist universe following rational rules.

Another is an INTP friend of mine (and yes he is definitely an INTP) who found EE early in life. He doesn't do much outside of that, when he goes home he watches old movies to unwind and turn off the brain (as Einstein used the sailboat for). He's been quite satisfied with what he's done though.

Those seem to be more the exception, for most of us we seem to have to go through gut wrenching search for a platform that allows us work and find truth.

For completeness (and just to piss off those who complain about my verbose posts) I'll tell my little story. Which I've done before but it's worth repeating in this context. I actually found my "passion" or "philosophical platform" quite early, but it took some 40 years to realize it (scared yet?) On the flip side, because of my overarching interest in this field I actually worked in it nearly my entire life, I just didn't realize the importance of it until quite late. Of course the answer was technology/computing. Other paths I tried were art, science, being a bum/armchair philosopher, etc.

It actually started when I was a young guy and saw one of the new Pong games. Don't laugh - this was amazing. I'd never seen anything like it before in my life. I knew about radar displays (which used the same technology) but this was something really different that had never been seen on the planet before. Blew me away. Anyhow so I always did something with computers and eventually became a programmer but it wasn't until my 40's that I realized that this was what I was searching for.

The philosophical platform is simply technology. Mankind is where it is, entirely due to our technology. If not for that we would still be bashing heads in with rocks. Working in technology - conceived broadly, provides a philosophy and goal to continue to work toward "convergent truth", which might be thought of as the Singularity.

Yep.

Based on your response, Life seems to be composed of ticking off stuff that can't be your truth and then making your truth up using what remains. I guess I can live with that.

Perhaps after I end my 6 months hiatus, I'll apply for a writing job and/or do a blog. It'll sate my Ti-Ne while I'm looking for my Fe philosophical platform. That should keep me busy for a decade or two