To love is to suffer

[addictedartist]

not masochism, but in the general concept that we suffer for the ones(or things) we love. Obviously the pain we endure throughout our lives strengthens character, but how much is too much? When the happiness you enjoy is killing you, how do you cope? how can you hope to love without leaving your soul bare and vulnerable, where is the saftey in throwing caution to the wind? What is the purpose of material gain unless you have people to share it with? Reconnecting with yourself can distance you from others, so where is the common ground?

as INTP's our love for knowledge is subjugated to the needs of knowledge, and can be a detriment to our productivity which is why we are classified as idea people, surely there is a balance between the ethereal and material however the reality is how do we descern for ourselves what is relatively subjectively right, when we know there is wrong which itself is not implicitly objective. how do we hope to tell children the truth of reality without warping their minds to our vision; which has constraints inherently more stressful than a young, open and impressionable brain.

loving may relieve suffering but is the inverse true, can suffering deter love?
does all the world love a lover , if so;why? is it because they hafto fight for their rights or because they are agreeable and nonconfrontational?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlVNCg74ma0

 

[redbaron]

I fail to see how I suffer by loving people around me.

 

[addictedartist]

I live in a world of extremes. I lost both my grandfather and grandmother to smoking in one year, now I am helping sort through their stuff to figure out whats going to be sold and its rather impersonal despite all the memories attached consciously or subconsciously, I loved my grandparents very much and now suffer their loss and although it is the natural order of life for the eldest to pass, my great grandmother outlived her daughter as they were taken at the ages of 66 and 67,which I consider to be young. my overall point being, no woman no cry (a bob marley song about him getting cancer and consoling his wife)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4kpqDF9j6Q

perhaps you have heard the adage 'love is blind'.

 

[addictedartist]

What lengths would you go to for the people you love? are you willing to suffer for them? what is true love? how does one define true suffering?
In any sense my opinion would be that those who suffer have a better understanding of love, where as those who love have a better understanding of suffering, along with living and learning these concepts serve as a moral compass for any individual, where living is to progress and learning to retrogress then you have suffering or loving, meaning you can suffer for a long time, but you can always turn back to love and vice versa, same with learning and living, you can learn as long as you would like but eventually you will hafto start living or vice versa however when someone you love is suffering what would you do to bring them back; how far would you chase them down the path of suffering before you have a chance to turn them around?

 

[PhoenixRising]

I think I understand what you're saying. Love in the attachment sort of sense can cause endless pain. I know for me, there is a constant struggle between the side of me that wants to be loyal to the people I love, and the side of me that desires knowledge and freedom. I always idealized a life where I would be beholden to no one, travel anywhere I wanted, and have no limit to the people I would experience and the knowledge I would gain. I still desire that kind of life more than anything, but somehow my responsibility to the people that count on me takes precedence.

There are times when I have an unquenchable curiosity about something, but can not pursue the answers I seek because it would mean betraying someone who loves me. Denying myself knowledge is betrayal of myself however.

I guess it comes down to what each individual sees as being more important, the self or others. Either way, in situations that force one to make a decision between what makes them happy or what makes their loved ones happy, pain is unavoidable.

 

[Architect]

I think I understand what you're saying. Love in the attachment sort of sense can cause endless pain. I know for me, there is a constant struggle between the side of me that wants to be loyal to the people I love, and the side of me that desires knowledge and freedom. I always idealized a life where I would be beholden to no one, travel anywhere I wanted, and have no limit to the people I would experience and the knowledge I would gain.

I found that being married to an INFJ means that I can have a life mate with commitment and attachment, and also with a great deal of freedom. They're pretty hands-off. However I understand that INTP females don't prefer INFJ males as much as INTP males prefer INFJ females.

 

[IdeasNotTheProblem]

First off, I'm sorry for your losses. I think I understand what your getting at here. In some ways one can measure their love for someone by how much they suffer when they lose them. The two would seem to go hand in hand. In order to love someone completely we must be willing risk the suffering that may result. In terms of relationships, I think trust can be the deciding factor as to weather or not that risk is taken. Someone who is more cynical in their nature, may be less trusting of others, and not as likely to take that chance. For me, and many other INTPs, this may be why we have fewer but more intimate friends as well as relationships.

"Love... It's a motherfucker, eh?"

 

[Proletar]

I would do anything for someone I love. Bullet to the head, her or me? Well, me. That's what love is.


To completely lose yourself in endless torment and limitless suffering, as well as complete beauty and ultimate bliss. It's too bad that it inevitably ends with suffering, but that makes you cherish it all the more when you have it.

 

[BigApplePi]

Re: To love is to be involved

Here's a short response.

When one loves, one is going to be involved. There is oneself and there is what or whom one is involved with. One can control oneself more easily than the other. The other is inevitably going to go their own way. That is because they are not you. This will cause pain, but the best love is when the involvement is worth it. How does one tell? When it enhances you rather than damages you. You get to decide.

 

[addictedartist]

dont be so flexible you get bent out of shape, whilst not being too stiff that you snap. dont hope to suffer or fear love because you cant understand what you cant change, one shouldnt be able to tell the difference between right and wrong because if you hafto decide the choice has been made for you, rendering your opinion arbitrary. trust is integral to attachment, the lover and the loved are comprised of a consistent and inconsistant nature, there will always be lovers or there will never be loved, the depiction of true may be in congruence with popularized ideals of an objective rationality partial to subjectivity, which is to say that people will do whats easy until doing easy becomes hard then the choice is limited to do or do not, trying becomes an exercise in futility.

when the going gets tough; actions speak louder than words.
how much do you hafto love before you can express how much you suffer?
how long do you hafto learn before you can live?
when do you hope to have fears or fear to have hope?
such is the intrinsic nature of love and suffering, no answer will satisfy a question unasked ; no amount of questions will define purpose without intention.