This job ad is telling me to take the MBTI and send their results to them

[onesteptwostep]

wtf?

http://seoul.craigslist.co.kr/wri/5281137650.html

is mbti gaining popularity or what? will apply though

 

[Pyropyro]

Well good luck. The ad seems to favor NT types with a good command of the English language.

 

[EditorOne]

I think you're right to look into it. If you get an interview, try to get a sense of why they included Myers-Briggs stuff.

You're kind of at the mercy of their interpretation of Myers-Briggs in connection with what traits they think best match their job and their work culture. Myers-Briggs in the hands of SJ idiots is not a good thing, it's pigeonholing at its worst.

 

[onesteptwostep]

@pyro Yeah thanks. !

@EditorOne That's actually worth asking, I'll make sure to do that

 

[Inquisitor]

I'll tell you my experience regarding working abroad as a recent college grad in China. Basically, having made the decision to return home, I am glad I did, even though the transition was rough.

First, $5.40/hr for 6 months? Can you say, "Exploitation"?

How do you expect to make rent with that? Even if they do give you a full-time job after 6 months, the salary is still going to be very low. You want to go into journalism/writing? Surely there are better opportunities than a free tabloid.

I was living in China for 2.5 yrs doing the teaching and consulting thing. Not sure what you're up to right now in Korea, but my conclusion after living in China is that unless you are an entrepreneurial individual, it's best to move back to the US. The job opportunities for foreigners suck abroad unless you're sent out by your company or have oodles of experience in a specific domain. I know the guys who founded a similar kind of magazine catering to foreigners in Kunming. Guess how much they made even after 5 years? <$500/month.

To give you an example, I have an ENTJ friend in China who started a nightclub. He came there with significant capital from a previous job. Anyway, starting and successfully growing a business in China is probably one of the hardest entrepreneurial challenges anyone can tackle, b/c of mafia, corruption, government thugs harassing businesses, umpteen different licenses and permits, which are just protection rackets and so forth.

He's pulled it off though. I cannot imagine an INTP succeeding in this kind of endeavor. It's the wrong personality for it, and you have to have money as well to start a business anyway. Unless you want to create a shoe-string business.

Get out while you're still young. The lifestyle abroad is great. It sucks you in, but it's like cancer. The expat community is a corrosive influence. They are usually a bunch of wasters escaping life back home. There are loads of English-teaching jobs in the US to tide you over once you return filled with people in your situation.

 

[onesteptwostep]

@Inquisitor

Thank you for your concern. I was brought in a multicultural environment so this kind of transition is okay for me. I'm mostly going in there for the experience and friend/network making.

Yeah, "$5.40" per hour for one of the more developed nations in the world, shocking isn't it?

P.S. I was born in this country actually, if that counts for anything.

Spoiler

Also, yeah, I do have second thoughts since it might not fit with me but I'm just going to take a jab, so to speak, at it.

As for the expat situation in South Korea.. I'm not sure whether you can compare it with China, since China doesn't have a large dispora, well at least ones as big as Korea's. I think the situation could be different, though I'm not sure how things are in China itself.

 

[Inquisitor]

@Inquisitor

Thank you for your concern. I was brought in a multicultural environment so this kind of transition is okay for me. I'm mostly going in there for the experience and friend/network making.

Yeah, "$5.40" per hour for one of the more developed nations in the world, shocking isn't it?

P.S. I was born in this country actually, if that counts for anything.

Spoiler

Also, yeah, I do have second thoughts since it might not fit with me but I'm just going to take a jab, so to speak, at it.

As for the expat situation in South Korea.. I'm not sure whether you can compare it with China, since China doesn't have a large dispora, well at least ones as big as Korea's. I think the situation could be different, though I'm not sure how things are in China itself.

But you're not Korean right? You're American?

Did you ever live in America?

Also, FWIW if you do English teaching in the US, the caliber of the students is much higher than abroad. Plus the training/resources/support you get are unmatched. If I had to do it over again, I'm not sure I ever would have gone to China. Just wasted time really.

 

[onesteptwostep]

I'd consider California my hometown but that's about it. Ethnically speaking I'd be 100% pure blood Korean, though my parents are actually from antithetical regions within it.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

...Myers-Briggs in the hands of SJ idiots is not a good thing, it's pigeonholing at its worst.

This.

 

[Inquisitor]

I'd consider California my hometown but that's about it. Ethnically speaking I'd be 100% pure blood Korean, though my parents are actually from antithetical regions within it.

I see...well in that case it's a little different. So you're basically an Americanized Korean then...I've taught a lot of Koreans over the past several years (~50-100). They're a pretty tight-knit group. Are they accepting of you despite the American upbringing?

 

[Absurdity]

I did that once. Turns out the company did not want to hire INTJs for a client-facing role. Kind of makes sense.

 

[Architect]

You're kind of at the mercy of their interpretation of Myers-Briggs in connection with what traits they think best match their job and their work culture. Myers-Briggs in the hands of SJ idiots is not a good thing, it's pigeonholing at its worst.

That's true. Of course in a job interview situation you're at the mercy of what they think of your eye color too.

 

[Sir Eus Lee]

- intermediate to advanced Korean ability
- logical thought processes, critical thinking

I smell a hypocrit.

A MBTI test result wouldn't be bad if it was just an FYI thing for a business, but even then it would still be.. *Some adjective*. But this seems like they're searching for a specific type. Probably an ENFP or ENTP but still, you can't trust them to pick the right one.

Hats off to whoever solves the stupid riddle.

 

[computerhxr]

There's a possibility that the MBTI is used as a tool to communicate rather than a tool for placement. It's a big no-no to use the MBTI results for job placement because it's considered unethical. It would be like placing a person based on their sex or gender.

When I first leaned about the MBTI, I used it to learn how other communicate and how to communicate with them better. When I work with people and I know their MBTI, I tailor the work to fit a style that works best for the individual based on what I know from the MBTI.

 

[Architect]

It's a big no-no to use the MBTI results for job placement because it's considered unethical. It would be like placing a person based on their sex or gender.

Not at all. Workplace discrimination presently is limited to sex and age, and somewhat to physical characteristics (weight, height, etc), not personality. If you're a little person (midget) a company wouldn't get a lawsuit over not hiring you to be a fireman or security guard, but could if it's a desk job. Even sex and age can get a little gray, such as a small women not being physical capable to be a line backer.

Personality/mental characteristics is up for grabs, you can easily get fired or hired based on that. A job could give you a test, MBTI, Big Five or just general questions that get to how well you work with or like other people, and if they don't like the answers there's no legal precedent against that.

In practice it's not often used, hiring is very much a seat of the pants kind of thing.

 

[computerhxr]

Not at all. Workplace discrimination presently is limited to sex and age, and somewhat to physical characteristics (weight, height, etc), not personality. If you're a little person (midget) a company wouldn't get a lawsuit over not hiring you to be a fireman or security guard, but could if it's a desk job. Even sex and age can get a little gray, such as a small women not being physical capable to be a line backer.

It's still like the same thing. Ethics is a guide and laws protect specific things like age, sex, race, or creed. If you are telling someone that they can't be a linebacker because they are an INTP, that would be the like saying someone can't be a linebacker because they are a woman. You are not looking at the individual and judging based on aggregation. Just because one is illegal and the other isn't doesn't change anything. We could add a law that says you can't deny someone a job based solely on your MBTI, then they would be the same. Your sex doesn't make a person and neither does the MBTI. At the same time, as you pointed out, sex and the MBTI do have some weight in how a person thinks and acts.

Workplace discrimination based on personality happens frequently. So much that the MBTI had to publish it in their ethical guidelines. It's not illegal to discriminate based on personality score. I'm not talking their actual personality, but the score that is assigned to them. It would not be unethical to discriminate on the actual personality (e.g. someone is an asshole, so you fire them.) It's the fact that it's a box that we put someone in... INTP Box or Female Box. In that respect they are alike.

Again, I'm talking about ethics and not laws. You can be unethical and say discriminate against someone based on their name, which does give an indication to sex. You simply reject anyone with a female name. Legal loophole that I'm sure you're aware of.

Legally, yeah then it would not be the same because some (arbitrary) law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_discrimination_law_in_the_United_States

 

[Inquisitor]

There's a possibility that the MBTI is used as a tool to communicate rather than a tool for placement. It's a big no-no to use the MBTI results for job placement because it's considered unethical. It would be like placing a person based on their sex or gender.

This ^^

So I got interested in the legal aspect of this situation. At least from a US perspective.

HBR: How to use psychometric testing

Wikipedia: Employment Testing

Business Insider: 3 Dangers Of Using Personality Tests To Screen Workers

THE USE OF PERSONALITY TESTS AS A HIRING
TOOL: IS THE BENEFIT WORTH THE COST?

It is unethical and in many cases illegal to require job applicants to take the Indicator if the results will be used to screen out applicants.

TL;DR:

Bottom line: legally, there doesn't appear to be much regulation concerning the use of the MBTI to screen out potential job applicants.

That said, personality testing for hiring purposes looks risky from what I've read. It's a very gray issue. If the applicant is a member of a "protected class," (which many people are) and if the test is not considered "validated" (and the MBTI certainly is not from a legal standpoint), you might have a problem.

Don't know if Korea has the same laws or not. Would be surprised if this were illegal however.

 

[Reluctantly]

^ Even so, they can decide to not hire you based on your MBTI and tell you it was because of some other reason. Then if it's legal or not, it doesn't matter to them.

 

[redbaron]

It is unethical and in many cases illegal to require job applicants to take the Indicator if the results will be used to screen out applicants.

Problem is this is borderline impossible to prove.

The company can just say that they're using it to develop employees post hiring, but that they're using the test as part of the application because it's the simplest and most efficient way of getting everyone to do it - even if some non-successful applicants take it and don't get the job, they don't want to waste valuable training time on doing it once people are hired.

It's used by a lot of companies and I doubt you could ever prevent its abuse.

 

[Hadoblado]

^ Even so, they can decide to not hire you based on your MBTI and tell you it was because of some other reason. Then if it's legal or not, it doesn't matter to them.

This is how it works. People don't put ads in the paper specifying race or gender, but there is certainly a marked effect for selecting some over others, even for jobs where gender/race related traits can't possibly have an impact. There's a crucial distinction between what people should be allowed to do, and what people can be held accountable for. If they make you take the test they're using your results for something, possibly to rule you out.

 

[Intolerable]

I absolutely would not take one of these if I were just applying for a cashier job or stocking shelves.

I did that once. I took one to work in a retail outlet here. They required it. I should have walked out.

Anyway, being INTP is not going to land you in one of those jobs. Best to not even mention it.