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The Shadow...

Zeke Johnson

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Re: type preference and attraction

...a path to the middle ground is through your opposite or shadow (ESFJ).


Zeke Johnson ( Ex-Captain )
 
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Death

..still alive
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Re: Attraction - with regard for type, the parallel prequel...

INTP shadow functions are ENTJ right,not ESFJ.
 

loveofreason

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This Shadow topic is one that interests me very much, and I'm grateful for all that has been posted on it.

Since we have two points of view on what functions constitute the INTP shadow, I wanted to open up a thread to pursue this.

I'm not qualified to know the truth of the matter - so I'm going to start with a string of questions.



What is the INTP shadow? ESFJ or ENTJ? Or an element of both? How does it act? When does it emerge? How do we 'embrace' our shadow? Do we have different shadows in different circumstances? Experience with your personal shadow? Can we really complete a perfect whole by merging with an individual of our shadow type, or is wholeness better pursued within our own psycho-drama?
 

Ermine

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the shadow function is the ESFJ, the opposite of the INTP. While experiencing the shadow function, the rational introspective INTP becomes more emotional, strict, outspoken, and more concrete.

For me, my shadow emerges when I'm stretched to the limit in something that is not my specialty, for example, trying to calm down a baby while babysitting. It also appears when I'm feeling any intense emotion, be it anger or sadness. I think different aspects of the shadow come up in different situations. For example, in an intense really personal argument, the extraverted, feeling, and sensory functions come into play for the worse. However, different traits of the same functions show up in a positive way when I am stretched beyond my comfort zone, particularly situations requiring more emotional understanding.

My experience with my shadow has produced the best and worst in me. My shadow, the ESFJ is what occurs when I lose control of myself, either as I experience a mental/emotional breakdown or when I become so stretched beyong my limits that all I can do is pray that I'll be able to hold on.

I think that pursuing our best selves is best done being pushed beyond our limits and succeeding and through relationships. A little bit of both.
 

mm1991

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When I'm angry.....those are the times when I cannot stop talking and everyone within a 10 mile radius better listen to me.
 

Wisp

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Your shadow is usually a very bad thing if all of it comes into play at once, however, embracing certain aspects of it, at certain times, can lead to empowerment.
 

Zeke Johnson

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Alot of people here seem to be 'shadow-adverse'. I really don't have any problem with my shadow (ESFJ), infact I quite admire them. Probably the start of becoming a 'balanced' individual is a gradual acceptance and awareness of your shadow.

For me, I actually went out night-clubbing at ESFJ bars, about four times a week, until I became one of them, or aleast I could pass as one. I discovered that my perceptions of E-types as being stupid, and shallow, were completely inaccurate.

I could go into a full report, but I won't bore you with the details.


Zeke Johnson ( Ex-Captain )
 

Wisp

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Nnnn, I'm not saying they aren't useful, but they generally aren't enjoyable... I'd rather not subject myself to it on a regular basis.
 

loveofreason

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I have had much opportunity in my life to examine my shadow, but botched it I guess, as those opportunities have been born of cyclical extremes. If I had learned and integrated, I wouldn't have found myself committing the worst of sins - not learning from experience.

But what am I on about? Every five years or so it seems, I have a nervous breakdown. I'm undergoing one now. The forum time I'm spending is testament to that.

I place myself in conditions that cause stress, and watch my personality unravel. Mostly anything that has anything to do with human relationships will trigger that stress. It is a curious exercise, and while I am harsh on my self-professed inability to learn from the past, it is more of a testing exercise, achieving finer and finer tuning and deeper understanding of what makes me tick. I am, of course, fundamentally quite self-ignorant, and only experiments of these proportions and persistence seem to yield any useful information.

So, this shadow I observe in extremis.

The P/J axis flips first. I'm in need of a modicum of externally-imposed stress because then I actually get things done. The more stress the more driven, ambitious and goal oriented I become. I meet deadlines. I finish projects. I aim high. I think a healthy level of stress is to be found here. But as it rises I become increasingly inflexible, rigid, controlling.

Apply more stress (stress is cumulative) and eventually The T/F axis switches. Instead of a thought out, reasoned response, I become emotionally reactive. The worst childish emotions. Irrational fears. Overwhelming rages, hatred, sorrow. The most bizarre and unrelated things will trigger tears, but I suppress them. I feel angry all the time. These monsters will be raging through my inner landscape and I will try to remain 'normal' on the outside. I will fight doggedly to not let them out. They overwhelm me.

The feeling of being out of control emotionally is one of the hardest, perhaps the very hardest, psychological phenomena I face.

So: rigid, irrational, paranoid, overwhelmed, I finally lose sight of the big picture. The N/S axis flips. I can't see the future. I can't imagine my way out of the horror show. I can't see anything in it's proper context, nor recognise the 'exit' sign. I feel like a complete victim of my environment, powerless to change anything and hypersensitive to absolutely everything. Every stimulus provokes a self-preservation drama. My senses feed me Danger Danger Danger! messages constantly. The world, and everyone in it, becomes a threat.

Now, curiously I do not become 'E'. I do not need people in this state. Quite the opposite! I become even more withdrawn, self-isolating and reclusive. I avoid people. An inescapable overdose of people was what caused the stress in the first place. I have been known to sit in the car in the carpark crying for hours because I simply can't face going into the supermarket to buy food.

Voila, I become the most extreme and unhealthy manifestation of ISTJ martyrdom.

Now, my question is: if the opposite letters actually represent our shadow type, why do I not manifest as a negative ESTJ? Why does my normally reserved nature not become outgoing?

I don't think the shadow is as simple as "opposites".

Oh heck, either that or I'm an ENTP in denial.
 

Cabbo Pearimo

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My 'shadow', as it were, isn't extroverted either. Strange, non? Hell, maybe I just haven't experienced it yet. I'm me, doesn't seem to change as much as to go to the opposite of me.
 

Wisp

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Or you haven't experienced that facet of it.
 

Cabbo Pearimo

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Well, I'm not one for turning into an ESFJ, at least.
 

Vrecknidj

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I highly recommend Naomi Quenk's Beside Ourselves: Our Hidden Personality in Everyday Life. It is an excellent book on types and shadow stuff. She spends a great deal of space in the book on being "in the grip." These are times when you're possessed, as it were, by your shadow, and often behave in ways that are counter to your normal functioning. She addresses all of the types and what each type's "in the grip" experiences look and feel like. She also gives nice advice for dealing with people in the grip (on a type-by-type basis).

Very handy book.

Dave
 

Cabbo Pearimo

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Always good to plug some literature.
 

Wisp

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Ahhh! That sounds so interesting! I want it...
 

Zeke Johnson

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When I flip into my shadow-side, I become extremely extroverted, nightclubbing, partying etc. And have a strong desire to talk non-sense, and act in silly ways. I also become extremely friendly, an ESFJ essentially, alcohol seems to further the spiral.

I'd flip like this every weekend after being an extreme INTP at work, essentially not talking to anyone and just getting the job done.

Since I've started 'tempering' my creative output, ( Limiting it to 4hours a day). I haven't flipped into shadow-time. But stress levels are also a factor.

I highly recommend Naomi Quenk's Beside Ourselves: Our Hidden Personality in Everyday Life.

I'll make sure I pick up a copy, thanks.

Zeke Johnson ( Ex-Captain )
 

Perseus

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An ESFJ stalked and tried to murder me just because he did not like me (or more likely instinctively wanted to control me). I was so badly injured that I turned into a INFP for eight months and I have still not recovered to INTP properly. Same male gender. I don't like them. They speak horseshit and are violent. I expect O Bin Laden is this character, probably the Unicorn.

Andy
http://soredragon.blogspot.com/
 

Perseus

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When I flip into my shadow-side, I become extremely extroverted, nightclubbing, partying etc. And have a strong desire to talk non-sense, and act in silly ways. I also become extremely friendly, an ESFJ essentially, alcohol seems to further the spiral.

I'd flip like this every weekend after being an extreme INTP at work, essentially not talking to anyone and just getting the job done.

Since I've started 'tempering' my creative output, ( Limiting it to 4hours a day). I haven't flipped into shadow-time. But stress levels are also a factor.

I highly recommend Naomi Quenk's Beside Ourselves: Our Hidden Personality in Everyday Life.

I'll make sure I pick up a copy, thanks.

Zeke Johnson ( Ex-Captain )

I go ENFP when partying. There is a dangerous clash with ENFJ which could end in murder.

Silly ways is often INFJ or ENFJ. They clash with INTPs and INFPs.
 

Kumori

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I highly recommend Naomi Quenk's Beside Ourselves: Our Hidden Personality in Everyday Life. It is an excellent book on types and shadow stuff. She spends a great deal of space in the book on being "in the grip." These are times when you're possessed, as it were, by your shadow, and often behave in ways that are counter to your normal functioning. She addresses all of the types and what each type's "in the grip" experiences look and feel like. She also gives nice advice for dealing with people in the grip (on a type-by-type basis).

Very handy book.

Dave

The only three INTP's I know (Myself and two others), are extremely silly most of the time, I think we must of crossed the line between genius and insanity some time long ago.
 

Jordan~

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I was going to say that I've never been that way before, but yes, anger, definitely. I have a pretty volatile temper, but most of the time (almost all of the time) I can keep it under control. Only a few people can irritate me enough that I get angry, and when there's no one around, I'm more liable to; but when I do I'm irrational, outspoken (verbal outbursts), stubborn and direct.

What exactly is this shadow? The inferior function (Fe - extraverted feeling - in INTPs) is also known as the "shadow function".
 

Perseus

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arkityp

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I have had much opportunity in my life to examine my shadow, but botched it I guess, as those opportunities have been born of cyclical extremes. If I had learned and integrated, I wouldn't have found myself committing the worst of sins - not learning from experience.

But what am I on about? Every five years or so it seems, I have a nervous breakdown. I'm undergoing one now. The forum time I'm spending is testament to that.

I place myself in conditions that cause stress, and watch my personality unravel. Mostly anything that has anything to do with human relationships will trigger that stress. It is a curious exercise, and while I am harsh on my self-professed inability to learn from the past, it is more of a testing exercise, achieving finer and finer tuning and deeper understanding of what makes me tick. I am, of course, fundamentally quite self-ignorant, and only experiments of these proportions and persistence seem to yield any useful information.

So, this shadow I observe in extremis.

The P/J axis flips first. I'm in need of a modicum of externally-imposed stress because then I actually get things done. The more stress the more driven, ambitious and goal oriented I become. I meet deadlines. I finish projects. I aim high. I think a healthy level of stress is to be found here. But as it rises I become increasingly inflexible, rigid, controlling.

Apply more stress (stress is cumulative) and eventually The T/F axis switches. Instead of a thought out, reasoned response, I become emotionally reactive. The worst childish emotions. Irrational fears. Overwhelming rages, hatred, sorrow. The most bizarre and unrelated things will trigger tears, but I suppress them. I feel angry all the time. These monsters will be raging through my inner landscape and I will try to remain 'normal' on the outside. I will fight doggedly to not let them out. They overwhelm me.

The feeling of being out of control emotionally is one of the hardest, perhaps the very hardest, psychological phenomena I face.

So: rigid, irrational, paranoid, overwhelmed, I finally lose sight of the big picture. The N/S axis flips. I can't see the future. I can't imagine my way out of the horror show. I can't see anything in it's proper context, nor recognise the 'exit' sign. I feel like a complete victim of my environment, powerless to change anything and hypersensitive to absolutely everything. Every stimulus provokes a self-preservation drama. My senses feed me Danger Danger Danger! messages constantly. The world, and everyone in it, becomes a threat.

Now, curiously I do not become 'E'. I do not need people in this state. Quite the opposite! I become even more withdrawn, self-isolating and reclusive. I avoid people. An inescapable overdose of people was what caused the stress in the first place. I have been known to sit in the car in the carpark crying for hours because I simply can't face going into the supermarket to buy food.

Voila, I become the most extreme and unhealthy manifestation of ISTJ martyrdom.

Now, my question is: if the opposite letters actually represent our shadow type, why do I not manifest as a negative ESTJ? Why does my normally reserved nature not become outgoing?

I don't think the shadow is as simple as "opposites".

Oh heck, either that or I'm an ENTP in denial.

this is me, entirely, right now. and i hate it. but it's like you slapped me back into reality. i'm glad i'm not alone.
 

loveofreason

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Hey - that's two of us Not Alone! I feel a bit strange.
 

ayn

ill keep my eyes fixed on the sun
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Sorry for grave robbing.. I'm also sorry if this has been brought up, I'm just interested if anyone has ideas on this..


Hey - that's two of us Not Alone! I feel a bit strange.

I also relate VERY much to what was said by you two. I'm wondering if anyone can relate or has any insights. I haven't been able to examine this part of myself (I mostly experienced it before my grand "awakening") and I would love to hear some ideas/theories. :33
 
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