the ridiculousness of high school art lessons

[Seducer of the Homeless]

seems to me they don't accept or cater for true artists. artists strive for perfection, act upon creativity when in the right mood (somewhere between depression and ecstacy) and truly want to be Original

they Don't meet Deadlines, Obey rules and restrictions, Don't NEED research, and hate nothing more than when someone tresspasses their thoughts and emotions.

school does the opposite in every way!

 

[QSR]

If you didn't have deadlines you'd never finish anything. It's a matter of practicality. I do however think it should be reasonable to ask for an extension one time.

 

[truthseeker72]

seems to me they don't accept or cater for true artists. artists strive for perfection, act upon creativity when in the right mood (somewhere between depression and ecstacy) and truly want to be Original

they Don't meet Deadlines, Obey rules and restrictions, Don't NEED research, and hate nothing more than when someone tresspasses their thoughts and emotions.

school does the opposite in every way!

I'd be willing to bet that DaVinci and Picasso did not attend government-funded art classes.

On a related note, Einstein (an INTP) was a mediocre student in grade shool.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

why exactly was Einstein not good at school. my theory is he was too smart for school.
INTPs are told they are too smart to perform well, truly well. INTPs have so much more going on in their heads than to care for things as school and all its limitations. throughout school we do what we need to get through, then we can start actually thinking

 

[truthseeker72]

why exactly was Einstein not good at school. my theory is he was too smart for school.
INTPs are told they are too smart to perform well, truly well. INTPs have so much more going on in their heads than to care for things as school and all its limitations. throughout school we do what we need to get through, then we can start actually thinking

Well, in addtion to the limitations of the school system, you have to remember that the vast of majority of people, including teachers, are not INTP's. Therefore, most of your teachers only know how to appeal to S,F, and J types. Keep this in mind the next time your prof says or does something idiotic.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

yeah, shame we are so rare

 

[didyouknow]

On a related note, Einstein (an INTP) was a mediocre student in grade shool.

Actually, I heard he was expelled because he drew an offensive charicature of the teacher. Now that's a real INTP, undermining authority and being immature at the same time.

 

[Fukyo]

I don't have art classes anymore in high school.We had them for first 2 years only.

 

[Ermine]

Odd that I always did really well, especially in my art classes. Perhaps I've been lucky. Other than deadlines and a small budget, I can't complain. I've never run into art teachers that tell you what "good art" is. All they did was teach me the basics and set me free.

 

[Kuu]

High-school teachers, in general, utterly suck. Art teachers should be no exception...

artists strive for perfection, act upon creativity when in the right mood (somewhere between depression and ecstacy) and truly want to be Original

they Don't meet Deadlines, Obey rules and restrictions, Don't NEED research, and hate nothing more than when someone tresspasses their thoughts and emotions.

ORLY? Says who?

What makes one a "true artist"? Who judges it?

I could say a true artist must be the opposite of what you claim: Artists know nothing is ever complete, and thus they have accepted the beauty of imperfection. They must not wait for "inspiration", but rather be in constant creation, on the lookout for great ideas, and know that originality is for pretentious people, that they must instead strive to be *good*.

They are disciplined, and obey their own conceptual rules and restrictions, as well as know those of their media. They do a LOT of research, since talent is a synthesis, and does not generate spontaneously, and they specially love it when someone trespasses their thoughts and emotions, realizing that their work can have a multiplicity of un-planned responses that might be even more interesting that the artist's original intent.

 

[dwags222]

On a related note, Einstein (an INTP) was a mediocre student in grade shool.

this is a myth. am reading his biography right now. very good. he did end up finishing with a mediocre performance at university, he got good grades but had a problem with his final paper or whatever i think.

 

[abandonship]

i agree with tekton.
this "true artist" sounds like a hack to me. the great masters did not wait for the right mood, they forced themselves to work. nobody gets good by waiting for "inspiration", its practice, blood and repetition.

research is so so important! exploring a subject gives birth to more ideas. Da Vinci's million sketches and anatomy studies, corpse chopping included. Monet painting the same haystack over and over again at different times to master light and colour. Greek sculptors basing themselves on strict mathematics for anatomical proportion. and so on.

also on the whole originality issue. everybody steals and borrows others ideas, the good artists are able to make them their own. behind every good artist there is an other good artist.

man, i get so worked up thinking about this, he.

 

[polarmonk]

I agree with you, up to a point. Research is important, but what I don't like about high school art lessons are is that you have to take ideas directly from other artists. That just trains unoriginality. Research from primary sources or themes is necissary though. It's hard to meet deadlines, but when you are in the right mood, I find it's best to do way more than is required to cover for the days when you're not. I have found that deadlines have 'trained' me to produce work even if i'm not in the right state- it may not be my best work, but it is still decent.
I go to an English school so things would probably be different for me, and my art teacher is quite relaxed about coursework deadlines.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

yes, the Plagiarism and the guilt i feel for acting out Plagiarism is painfull.

...in have revised my opinion somewhat (anything if not confirmation i am INTP rather than INTJ)

i am starting to realise the importance of Research, but not in the way we are told to do it. also organising the Sketch Pad is ridiculous, if they want an insight to our Inner-Workings then they have got one. mess, disorganisation and 'randomness' (although nothing is actually random, but you get my point)

 

[preilemus]

I agree with the deadline part. in my computer graphics class, we are currently making flash animations, and i had a very good idea for one, but when my teacher said "it's due in 3 classes", i was like, "screw it i'll never be able to finish that on time." so now im going with something much simpler. it's still good, but not what i would like to do.

 

[RobertJ]

I think what I have learned here is that "artistry" is subjective.
I however do not believe that discipline and art are intrinsically bound, nor am I sure that they are diametrically opposed. Hmm..

 

[Beat Mango]

Art is just art. For some people, like your art teacher, innovation may not be on top of their list of values. But what they're doing is still art.

I used to have your frustration, but I've kinda come around to thinking that hating them for being disciplined and even boring is the equivalent of them hating you for being free and inspired. Both of you are artists, just different types. Boring people are attracted to boring art, but there's nothing wrong with that. We think they're boring, they think we're weird

 

[merzbau]

i had similar thoughts that dawned on me from having some very flawed teachers through high school & uni.

art is a subjective thing. yes, to a certain degree you can grade technique, application, and a few very subtle things like being able to conceptualise well.. but outside of that, there absolutely no way that a teacher (or anyone else) can objectively mark a piece of artwork, because it is merely their opinion. i refused to believe a teacher has the right to arbitrarily decide that one piece gets an A, and another gets a D, based simply on their own tastes.

in fact, the way art is taught is totally offensive to anyone who has actually put themselves into their work.

 

[Red Mage]

I'm not in any way an artist, but it seems to me that if you're not feeling fulfilled by your high school art program, or that you're not learning anything, or that you feel held down by it, then maybe you should not take it any more. You can learn on your own. But it's my understanding that high school art is only meant to teach you the basics and not how to be an "artist." The deadlines and required projects are just a way to measure how well you're doing. You can't just get an A for showing up.

 

[Ermine]

^ Regardless of how much I like my teacher's take on art, I find it best to keep taking the class in order to keep learning design principles and have more resources to use in the way of information and materials.