the object of relationship?

[loveofreason]

What's the objective of having relationships?

Beyond the prosaic necessities of responding to one's sex drive, or caring for one's children, etc. I'm interested in all permutations of relationship.

I'd expect there to be a vast range of responses, as it is such a personal topic - but on the grand scale, is there a universal goal behind our experience of otherness and relationship?

 

[Zeke Johnson]

I'm interested in all permutations of relationship.

Ok then....

Protection in numbers,

Shared resources,

Moral/emotional support,

Joint development,

Sharing the 'shadow',

Energy supplementation,


And so on, etc,


Zeke Johnson ( Ex-Captain )

 

[mm1991]

Hmmm....
I guess for most of the world's poopulation, they hate to be alone, they can't stand to be alone, so it's a matter of having someone there to have conversations with and to share everything with throughout their lives. I know some people who can never be single, only because they don't want to be alone. They will stick with their current partner, even if they can't stand him/her, until they have another person lined up next. I find it very pathetic.

With INTPs, that's most likely not the case, since we have no problem being alone, and would rather not have someone snooping in every aspect of our lives 24/7.

I'm nt sure how to answer you on this. I mean, even we need someone there for some of the time, don't we?

 

[Ermine]

Maybe it's just because I'm young, and only started dating (quite a strange practice for INTPs), but I'm not exactly sure. Since I'm fine with only having a few good friends, I don't know what I need exactly in a romantic relationship if not someone to complement my personality and improve and complete me.

However, for the time being, I'm perfectly fine with friends filling that role.

 

[mm1991]

Have anyone of you ever thought about never marrying?
I've thought about that before. On the exact train of thought "What exactly do I need a husband for?".
In my mind, I can do everything throughout my life on my own. I guess some company would be good, but I could always spend time with friends.

 

[Ermine]

Hmm, on the subject of marriage, it's hard to draw the line between what I think and what my family and the world tells me to think.

I think I ought to marry eventually, but it would interfere with my career and intellectual pursuits, but I think it's also my personal responsibility to raise a child as a bright responsible adult. That would be a reason to marry.

It all boils down to whether it's best to be an egoist (not egotist) or an altruist.

 

[smile for now]

Right now, I don't feel like I ever want to get married. Which isn't to say that I don't believe in significant relationships. But when I think about merging my life with somebody else's like that. . . ugh, I feel a sort of claustrophobia even sitting here and writing about it.

For me, the point of a relationship is companionship. I want to lead separate lives together with the one I love -- if that makes any sense at all. It's not simply to avoid loneliness (and it's actually a pretty miserable way to combat that, in my limited experience). It's more like that I want each of us to struggle and grow as people, aided by the other's presence (emotional and otherwise) in our lives. If you were to somehow plot out two lives on a line, the sort of relationship that most people seem to want would cause those lines to either merge or intersect constantly. In the sort of relationship I want, the two lines would have their own ups and downs, yet there would be an undeniable correlation between the two.

Haha... Well, I'm pretty sure that all sounds like nonsense. It's a sort of ideal to me, anyway, and my current relationship, unfortunately, does not even begin to approach it. It could just be that we are social and sexual creatures, and that relationships are the natural outcome, given our intelligence. But that's pretty much just as prosaic as the explanations panned in the OP.

 

[mm1991]

smile for now, I get what you're saying.
Sometimes I've thought to myself, "If I got married, how would that work?".
And having a family? I just NEED my alone time, some time everyday, if I don't get it, I'd go insane. With a husband and kids, I can just kiss my privacy goodbye.
But at the same time, for some reason, having a family seems so appealing, but the point of it? I'm not sure.

 

[moonpie]

Quick answer: Sex and conversation.

In a relationship, if one isn't good then neither is the other, so that is that.

 

[hairlessbluetick]

Quick answer: Sex and conversation.

In a relationship, if one isn't good then neither is the other, so that is that.

So true.

 

[tesseracter]

Funny many of you say you don't want to get married. That's what I said in high school! I had 1 boyfriend in high school, and only bc he was in love with me, and I didn't want to hurt his feelings. But, I did get married (and I'm still happily married) to a guy I met in college.

Being married helps me develop emotionally. I was definitely weaker in that aspect when I was younger. Now, after having had 3 sons - I love them like crazy, and some things will make me cry. I *never* cried in a sad movie before college.

It also helps me not be so selfish and self-focused. It would be very easy, very natural for me to live my life just for me. Having a family requires me to think about them first. It's a good thing.

With that being said, I've always said, if my husband died, I will never marry, again. And, I don't think I will. I'm just relieved I can put up with all the idiosyncracies of my current husband and that he doesn't have as many as some guys I've seen!

 

[Ermine]

^ Hmm, in that respect, INTPs and other self-focused, unemotional, and introspective people NEED to get married in order to reach their full potential.

 

[walfin]

At the risk of sounding like an F type: Always thought a relationship should be it's own object.

 

[Ermine]

^ There really is no risk in being an F type, though I really don't see your point, being a T type.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Buckminster Fuller pointed out that love is metaphysical gravity.

All objects with mass attract all other objects with mass. It is, as it were, physical destiny for things to return to a state of oneness.

A similar argument can be proffered for metaphysics. Relationship reminds us that we can break through the illusion of individuality and difference, even if only briefly, and join with another.

Dave

 

[loveofreason]

Thanks so much for sharing that Dave.

There's truth to what everyone offered, and I can relate especially to what you said, smile for now, also to the unshakable internal assumption that I'm independent (the ultimate illusion!), and yet...

Take away sex and conversation, and safety in numbers et al... and what is a relationship?

I think "metaphysical gravity" is the most perfect (ie whole, inclusive, lacking no facet, complete) response I've ever heard. I think the human is to love as water is to the wave.

 

[Yozuki]

Yozuki is thinking the arrangement human mechanical is a protection the system for the human mechanical. Yozuki is a not caring about children the species or woman the Y Chromosone. Indeedy Yozuki is the interest of thinking and partnership, but exist not it does.

 

[kd10]

Having a relation, no matter who you are is always a good thing, so much can be learned through it. Yet, In my experiences, I tryed, well once. And nothing changed, I lived my life, This relationship ended fairly quickly. Which shows that, I could live most of my life without someone there. Hasn't anyone been through a moment that you just want someone to be with them. Occasionally this has happened to me, which points out a question. Why, do I not keep what I strive for? Could this just be me, or is this common?

 

[Ermine]

Actually, I know what you mean. It seems that with friends, I can't seem to keep most of my friends for more than 2 or 3 years. And it's through no fault of mine or theirs, it's just drifting.

And for some reason, I haven't felt any intense desire to have a romantic relationship, just pressing curiosity. Maybe it's just because I'm young.

 

[Alie]

kd10...I believe that maybe you lost your relationship so quickly because you just lost interest. You might have just wanted to get that relationship "high" and when you got it, you got bored and decided you didn't want it anymore.

My opinion is that if you find someone really great that makes you feel awesome when you are around them, then why not have a relationship with them. But if you are just dating someone just to date someone, then there's no purpose. I think that only 2 people who instantly take a liking to each other should begin a relationship. Because if you have differences in the beginning that you have to work out, then those differences probably won't go away and eventually come up later on in the relationship.

 

[kd10]

Thats it. Back then I had very little knowledge as of what I know now. Well back then was 1 year and a half ago. The thing though is. Its very common for someone to want to be with another, but for me to have this disire and do nothing about it? What does that say about me? Is this lazyness. Is this Fear? The thing though is, I cannot date to date. It is pointless. Friends of mine tell me that it is to get to know them. I get to know them as being friends and if something continues forward then it will. Yet, I seem to go know where but friends with anyone. Is this just me, or not?

 

[Wisp]

Also, you're 16, experience is lacking. One example shouldn't be the basis of a philosophy.

 

[Cabbo Pearimo]

The purpose of a relationship, to me, would be to better understand myself. For that I'll need to get a girl who is pretty much a female me (with the variations in personality that the female part would naturally conjure up. I mean my opinions and level of understanding. Or higher, of course.). That's why I'm still looking. God, this'll take for ever.

 

[Ermine]

Good luck, Cabbo.

The thing though is, I cannot date to date. It is pointless. Friends of mine tell me that it is to get to know them. I get to know them as being friends and if something continues forward then it will. Yet, I seem to go know where but friends with anyone. Is this just me, or not?

I still don't get how or why people date in order to get to know someone. That just makes for awkward silence, even if it isn't a single date. Friendship is a better way to get to know someone. Must be because I'm only 16.

My parents have been given me a lot of grief over hanging out with a guy one on one (no romantic intentions). They assume it's a single date just because it's me and a guy going out and about. I can't stand those kind of gender barriers.

 

[Cabbo Pearimo]

Mess with their head. Get the guy to wear a leather jacket and trouser set, with a swastica on his t-shirt, and start pretending to be a borderline personality. AHAHA!



Or just say you're a lesbian. Either would work.

 

[Ermine]

haha, he actually comes close to that with the Hot Topic image. He's a metalhead and looks the part. I just could care less since I can see him through the band shirts unlike my parents.

 

[ectius]

Friendship is a better way to get to know someone. Must be because I'm only 16.

I'm 21, and it's still the same as it's always been. I've had... five?... girlfriends, total, and every one of them started out as friends. It's just easy like that. No pressure, no need to do or say anything that doesn't feel natural.
Granted, I really clicked with a few more than the others. Intant-relation, long talks at odd hours, and after a few months, they went somewhere deeper, more personal, and more satisfying.


I do have one thing that I'm really, really struggling with right now. It's been three months since my ex of two years and I decided that it just wasn't working. She took it harder than I did, and I really didn't know why at the time. I mean, we were okay, we'd just filed everything away until it was obvious that, as two romantically, emotionally-involved people, we just couldn't or wouldn't work.
I'm feeling a deal of pain in return, now, but I don't think it's for the same reason. She grieved because the relationship ended, and I'm grieving because of how she's starting to change: reckless abandonment, drinking, slipping morals. I'm protective, as I do still love her dearly. But I think my grief has more to do with 'how' I connect and attach to people, and what they come to mean to me.
It's not the physical proximity, relationship status, or foreseeable future that I feel I'm basing this anxiety on. It's the removal of someone that I hold dear from the world.
Because somehow, this wonderful person changing into something worse feels very nearly like a slow, helpless death, on my end.

This might just be personal, and it's surely complicated. I've had a bit of time to think, though.

 

[Agapooka]

I've found that the only times where I am actively seeking a relationship are the times when my shadow attempts to take over. Luckily, I've always been able to take a step back and make use of a more logical approach. This has always resulted in me stepping away from my irrational pursuit, although I still feel ashamed for letting my shadow influence my thoughts and desires.

Otherwise, I would say that I am passively accepting of the positive aspects of being in a healthy relationship. It is something that I view as a future possibility, but whereupon my happiness does not depend. If anything, I view the idea of a relationship as an opportunity to extend beyond my introverted nature, transcending one barrier, allowing me to share my ideas with another individual. Indeed, it sounds very metaphysical from that point of view.

Despite this, my ability to project the potential outcomes of decisions in the future has led me to avoid any actual romantic relationship for my entire life. Thus, the concept is very theoretical. Would I be able to deal with anything else?

 

[loveofreason]

The purpose of a relationship, to me, would be to better understand myself. For that I'll need to get a girl who is pretty much a female me (with the variations in personality that the female part would naturally conjure up. I mean my opinions and level of understanding. Or higher, of course.). That's why I'm still looking. God, this'll take for ever.

This just about sums up my conclusion on the topic, but I would expand the statement "...to better understand myself and the curious condition called humanity."

I very much regard myself as an experiment. I want to understand what it is to be human. In order to examine the multitude of human facets that present in my personality, I require the appropriate lenses, ie. others. Hence relationships are necessary.

This works both ways of course - I observe something of interest in an other, and I too become a lens. The lens through which that other examines their self. The mutuality of the situation fascinates me, and the dissolving of boundaries, and confusion that ensues. Then the unraveling, rebuilding and establishment of a clearer Self.

I've also concluded that it's best to not take relationships personally, if that makes sense. Perhaps that's just the escape clause I use to keep safe from OPD (Other People's Drama). But once you let yourself believe the script, you're lost.


Almost forgot to add:

Despite this, my ability to project the potential outcomes of decisions in the future has led me to avoid any actual romantic relationship for my entire life. Thus, the concept is very theoretical. Would I be able to deal with anything else?

Agapooka, there comes a time to test a theory, in order to discard or refine it. Would you be able to deal with anything else? There's only one way to find out.

I might mention, when I framed the OP I wasn't thinking only of romantic relationships, but because of the intensity of emotion they engender, and complexity, these relationships are the generally most fruitful when it comes to yielding self knowledge.

I've found in my own life that curiosity leads to the crucible.

 

[Agapooka]

I am willing to test, but unable to find test subjects! Haha.

 

[loveofreason]

Ah-ha. The elusive test subject! Can't offer any suggestions there. They just seem to turn up, usually when you're pre-occupied with Something Else. Actually the myth of Hippolytus is enlightening. He was so driven in pursuit of non-erotic love that Aphrodite couldn't bear it... ooh no, forget that, just remembered he meets a very messy end. Tactless. Apologies.

But your avatar! I'm told that in Chinese tradition that the penguin symbolises the relationship with one's self. Curious. Are INTPs all about taming the relationship with one's self?

I'll stop waffling and derailing my own thread now.

 

[Agapooka]

If that is true, then there is irony in my unintended acronym. It might just become a more serious motto for me. I'll do research on the symbology of the penguin first, though.

Through my own experience, "taming the relationship that I have with myself" is exactly what I've always strived to do, yet I've never thought of it, let alone consider putting it to words.

On a side note, topics evolve. I would not call a topic derailed if it left a train station in Vancouver and found a very different environment when it finally arrives at its destination on the East coast. Although, does every topic have a final destination? Perhaps that is a question for another topic. Hmm.

 

[Cabbo Pearimo]

You can't determine humanity through the study of yourself, or for that matter the entirety of the people you are to meet in your lifetime.

 

[Anti-socialite]

Having a relation, no matter who you are is always a good thing, so much can be learned through it. Yet, In my experiences, I tryed, well once. And nothing changed, I lived my life, This relationship ended fairly quickly. Which shows that, I could live most of my life without someone there. Hasn't anyone been through a moment that you just want someone to be with them. Occasionally this has happened to me, which points out a question. Why, do I not keep what I strive for? Could this just be me, or is this common?

INTPs want to know ONLY THEORETICALLY if something will work. Whether our ideas come to fruition is of no concern to us. When we apply this to romantic intrigue, we can only test out the waters through experience. So we do, and when we've gathered sufficient enough evidence that we could make this effort successful (that we fully understand it), it becomes of no interest and must inevitably end. We value sound theory and, as cold as it may seem, our ability to create successful romances is merely one of our vast assortment of theories.

This is true for me, at least.

 

[Ogion]

I must say, i don't have that wish of sharing my life with someone else. I mean, apart from normal interactions. I think i would find a person who is 'all the time' around/is a partner of my life quickly annoying. Perhaps it is just that i, in lack of experience (well, i am 21 and had no relationship yet), don't know of the big pros of such a thing (Are there? That is the question of thread, isn't it?). Oh well, my biological body has some part in that discussion too, i am only a human male too , but i didn't find it that demanding yet.
So everytime i try to imagine what having a partner would be like, i come too the argument, that i would find it really annoying and exhausting. Not that i can't be a nice person and be polite and everything, but then again, that would not be the point in having a relationship, would it? Because it would not be my normal mode of being but rather a role to play. And to do that all day would be quite a meaningless relationship. Or not?

Ogion