The Most Practical Degree

[Yourmother]

In this economy and situation, let's face it. A philosophy degree is going to get you nowhere. Yet, just as important are degrees that are not too difficult to get, by which I mean not sacrificing how well you do in them.
The question is, what college degrees are well worth your time?

Doing a lot of research, I have come to the conclusion the Economics may actually be the best major to actually pursue, based on its relative difficulty and the demand for such a degree. Engineering on the other hand, is best, unfortunately, the process towards getting such a degree is arduous at best and downright frightening at worst (weeding out anyone?). Not to mention, GPA does matter straight out of college, and Engineering as well as Mathematics don't make that component easy at all.

Let's face it, for someone who is going to attend college mainly for the purpose of getting a good job, what is the most practical one when accounting for marginal cost/ benefit?

That is, ones that do give a decent chance at a decent job out of college?

 

[crippli]

Philosophy will be good for your soul. Engineering will be good for your mind. Economics will be good for your pockets.

 

[Puffy]

Economics, maths and engineering are all good for employment. I think you should be asking yourself what you enjoy and where you see yourself going when the degree's finished. Best degree for employment will depend on what you want to do. (:

 

[Words]

@OP

Because economics is the most "economical" degree...?

------

Philosophy will be good for your soul. Engineering will be good for your mind. Economics will be good for your pockets.

Soul does not exist therefore [formal]philosophy is good for nothing. I hear many engineers and physicist get out of college and pursue finance/economics instead of what they did in college. Both engineering and economics are good for your mind.

I truly hate formal philosophy, not because its impractical, but because its all wrong.

Economics, maths and engineering are all good for employment. I think you should be asking yourself what you enjoy and where you see yourself going when the degree's finished. Best degree for employment will depend on what you want to do. (:

Hear, hear.

-------
@OP

Identifying the most practical degree partly depends on what you enjoy and what you enjoy partly depends on your type. An INTP, with a decent intellect, will potentially find anything technical(T) and abstract(N) interesting. Economics is technical and abstract and engineering is technical and abstract but the most technical and abstract of all is computer science, second only to math. But math has no direct application like computer science's programming and computer science is the 2nd most math rigorous anyways. if you do not have a decent intellect, then you can improve it anyways by engaging in hobbies that truly and adequately exercises your preferred functions.

Next up is with the demand of the degree. I remember reading an article that talked about a boom in computer science majors in the early 90's due to earlier(80's) experiences and expectations, but these folks were unable to make use of their degree and were basically screwed. That boom again happened and is happening, beginning somewhere around the 21st century, in proximity to Google and Facebook's success. Larry Page has some crazy Ne btw. NeTi or TiNe, probably the latter. "Find all the leverage in the world, so you can be truly lazy."

Economics, on the other hand, always had a stable but high demand.

Also, it depends, of course, on your specializations within the degrees.

Also, I'm no expert. I just read stuff on the internet.

All that said, I am against "practical things." I am for "ambitiously crazy" things. Pffft, you don't even need to go to school. It doesn't matter if you end up as a bum, as long as you tried to do/make fun things happen.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

The question is, what college degrees are well worth your time?

It's not the degree but the skillset that's important. Identify your long term goals (nothing too specific), parse out the skills required to accomplish them, and choose a degree path that allows you to gain most of those skills.

"Universal" skills worth considering might include programming languages (which I myself am in the process of learning), statistical analyses, modeling, experimental design, and rhetoric.

For all intents and purposes, you can earn your philosophy "degree" on this forum.

 

[Yourmother]

Interesting.
I don't know, having fun is kind of cliche thing, haha. I mean, if I really wanted to go to college for knowledge and to have fun, I would be choosing a communications major. In essence, an article from Cracked really illustrates the point that you don't have to go to college to receive a college degree.
After all, this is the information age, where all the lectures from the best schools in the state are available for free online. So if I wanted to pursue knowledge for knowledge, why go to college in the first place?
The only reason why people are willing to spend thousands of dollars to go to college is for that lucrative degree that prevents them from being screwed over in the job market later in life. It's also probably the only reason why I'm going in the first place. After having fun is great and all, but kind of hard to do when you are starving and dying of hypothermia in the streets.
Or stuck in a minimum or dead-end job with no way to get out of it your entire life.
As for math, too much of it makes me feel dead inside. Although it's one of my better and less dreaded subjects, it kind be rather hair-pulling at times.
Finding the derivative of equations with exponents up to nine is the prime example of this.
Wow, people in this forum post long replies.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

DO NOT STUDY ECONOMICS! It is not good for your pocket and it would be retrogressive for your mind. Philosophy has the same properties.

 

[Yourmother]

DO NOT STUDY ECONOMICS! It is not good for your pocket and it would be retrogressive for your mind. Philosophy has the same properties.

Uh...care to explain?

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Uh...care to explain?

To gain employment in either field you need a PhD. That is up to 12 years of study at university and around 100k in debt. The only area where you can gain employment is at universities because a PhD in economics and philosophy utterly useless for anything else. Now, every man and his dog who receives a PhD is either of these fields will be looking to gain employment as a post-doc. That is a great amount of competition for a small number of low paying positions. Even if you did gain employment as a post-doc you probably will be struggling to pay off your student loan.

At the greater majority of universities, most of the economic theory they teach you in an economics degree is generally wrong. The only good thing a economics degree provides is knowledge in statistics but still worse than a degree in statistics.

If you study philosophy you will be indoctrinated into the weird and wonderful world of neo-absurdism where the use of convoluted but technically sound English is used to obfuscate logical fallacies. This is all to simply confuse the people you're debating so you can make the case that stealing wealth from people is a good, moral and just thing to do. Of course, the reason why the majority of modern philosophers argue this case is so that they can maintain their own useless existence. Contributing to the division of labor is beneath them, you see?

Your PhD in being useless to the rest of society is going to relegate you to flipping burgers at McDonalds. I don't think you will be able to pay off your student loans on such a wage. Off to debtor's for you.

 

[Yourmother]

To gain employment in either field you need a PhD. That is up to 12 years of study at university and around 100k in debt. The only area where you can gain employment is at universities because a PhD in economics and philosophy utterly useless for anything else. Now, every man and his dog who receives a PhD is either of these fields will be looking to gain employment as a post-doc. That is a great amount of competition for a small number of low paying positions. Even if you did gain employment as a post-doc you probably will be struggling to pay off your student loan.

At the greater majority of universities, most of the economic theory they teach you in an economics degree is generally wrong. The only good thing a economics degree provides is knowledge in statistics but still worse than a degree in statistics.

If you study philosophy you will be indoctrinated into the weird and wonderful world of neo-absurdism where the use of convoluted but technically sound English is used to obfuscate logical fallacies. This is all to simply confuse the people you're debating so you can make the case that stealing wealth from people is a good, moral and just thing to do. Of course, the reason why the majority of modern philosophers argue this case is so that they can maintain their own useless existence. Contributing to the division of labor is beneath them, you see?

Your PhD in being useless to the rest of society is going to relegate you to flipping burgers at McDonalds. I don't think you will be able to pay off your student loans on such a wage. Off to debtor's for you.

Are you sure that a P.H.D in economics is required for decent employment?

I don't know, based on an extensive amount of research, the BS in Economics is actually one of the more valued degrees out there, behind engineering and mathematics. You seem to argue that in order to achieve a decent job with an economic degree, one must pursue it all the way.

However, based on certain sites, the opposite seems to be true. Individuals who manage to achieve a job with an economics degree are actually paid rather lucrative incomes, and on CNBC in 2009 was rated as one of the most demanded degrees there was.

Also, everyone struggles from student debt. No matter what you are planning to major in, the fee for each credit stays the same. Even doctors and lawyers are not exempt from this.

If we are talking about benefiting morally and intellectually, why even go to college in the first place? A lot of the lessons taught in the top schools are provided free of charge on the internet. Why pay 30k just for knowledge? Other than that, your argument is getting rather off-topic. What's with all the hate on the philosophy major? :S

You are also making a lot of all or nothing arguments. It's either working at universities or working in Mcdonalds. Can't it be in between, like working as a consultant or analyst?

Uh...anyway. I try to make claims without making bullshit up. Heh...citations?

http://www.forbes.com/2008/06/18/college-majors-lucrative-lead-cx_kb_0618majors.html
http://education-portal.com/articles/Top_10_Paying_College_Majors.html
http://www.cnbc.com/id/29367964?slide=6

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Then go for it buddy. It is your life. Your own prerogative.

By the way if you want to be an analyst get a degree in finance not economics.

Some food for thought:

 

[Yourmother]

Then go for it buddy. It is your life. Your own prerogative.

By the way if you want to be an analyst get a degree in finance not economics.

Uh...? Never mind.
Anyway, can you describe how majoring in finance is like, and if it is a degree that projects decent job outlook?

In America?

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Uh...? Never mind.
Anyway, can you describe how majoring in finance is like, and if it is a degree that projects decent job outlook?

In America?

You study subjects? At least you won't be taught incorrect economic theory.

Learn liquidity analysis and earn 400k per year.

 

[Dapper Dan]

I can't imagine anything being much better than Computer Science or something similar.

1. Great job market, even if you're not on the west coast.
2. Good pay right out of school, and it seems to scale well with experience.
3. Don't need more than a 4-year degree. And you can get away with less if you're motivated and have some side-projects.
4. Relatively high quality of life. The work is interesting, complex, and logical. Many companies seem to be relaxed on the dress codes, hours, and political nonsense. To an extent, anyway.
5. Endless possibilities. There's no way to learn everything. You could have any of a million different specialties and pet projects. You can work for yourself, a massive company, both, or anything in between.

 

[skip]

If I were going to start college now I'd pick biochem.

 

[del]

Statistics is going to be the next "big thing" as the world is becoming more inundated with data.

 

[walfin]

Huh? Engineering is supposed to be hard for an INTP?

 

[Architect]

Engineering has always been and will likely always be an in demand degree. There is always demand for people who can improve our quality of life and solve problems. As Dapper Dan says there are many positives to the job. The only negative I can relate is that, depending on the specific job you have, it can be a pressure situation to get a product out the door. You can also find low pressure engineering jobs.

Economics is a specialty degree. You can use it on Wall Street, if that is your inclination, and make lots of money. However you have to 'sell your soul' more so than other jobs, especially engineering. You'd have to wear a suit every work day for example.

Philosophy is good for teaching only, and those jobs are hard to come by I imagine.

Engineering is the most practical job I'd agree. Bonus points is you can easily use it to get into other fields if you change your mind. I know doctors, administrators and many others in diverse fields who have engineering degrees.

 

[Words]

Huh? Engineering is supposed to be hard for an INTP?

We're not all bright. Some of us are even below average. *cough*intpz*cough*


---

Proxy's data is quite convincing, isn't it? Although, I think finance is concisely "applied economics" or perhaps "sub-economics" similar to accounting. The same basic theoretical rules apply; it's only oriented around a particular market, the most abstract of its kind. The kind of economics proxy is talking is more of the philosophical sort of economics.

The above has nothing to do with the superiority of engineering of course nor the direct outcome(income) one can attain from focusing on finance.

 

[Yourmother]

Can anyone give more information about engineering?

The main reason I'm not thinking of pursuing it is because of the amount of pressure that will be placed on me...ie. I could easily screw out and cause the downfall of an entire system with a misplaced calculation. I've never heard of a low-pressure engineering job before, and I would like more information on the matter.

I don't know what majoring in engineering is like nowadays, but I've heard that it's a nightmare to get through. The college that I'm going to (Yale-NUS) has a lot of nightmare stories about the engineering degree there, so I'm in reality very very scared.

Not to mention, being in a foreign college is very intimidating, so I'm playing it safe.

Anyone know about the real difficulty of engineering and computer science related majors? And not just a "depends on the teacher" answer. I kind of need a general consensus.

I've also read that engineering majors tend to correlate with very low GPAs (2.75 average). Being a straight A student so far, I'm worried. :S

 

[Yourmother]

I'm hesitant about computer engineering because of how behind I am. I haven't even began to touch html coding let alone C+ or python, and I am worried of how far behind I will be when I do start a major on it.
Students that have done coding for years have trouble in the class from what I've heard, so...

 

[Etheri]

Can anyone give more information about engineering?

I've also read that engineering majors tend to correlate with very low GPAs (2.75 average). Being a straight A student so far, I'm worried. :S

I'm hesitant about computer engineering because of how behind I am. I haven't even began to touch html coding let alone C+ or python, and I am worried of how far behind I will be when I do start a major on it.
Students that have done coding for years have trouble in the class from what I've heard, so...

I do not know and do not care for the american systems. That being said, I currently study engineering (in belgium, going to my third bachelor year next year.) If you're interested and good at maths, you should not have too much trouble. As for wages, jobs and what you'll be doing later, it depends a fair deal on which directions you take within engineering. (You can't really relate chemistry or applied physics to civil engineering or airspace engineerings). That being said, they ALL require high doses of maths and fundamental sciences, including chemistry, material technology, fluid dynamics, automatisation (system regulation) etc.
To me, this diversity makes things more interesting and fun. You learn a fair deal about a broad spectrum of subjects which you'll need in order to do any technical job, and then go very into-deep concerning the subjects you actually pick.

As to jobs, we're told that if you work 2 to 5 years in europe in in your area of expertise, and then see if you can start working abroad / stark working mobile for international companies, wages go up fairly high and jobs are - as long as you're motivated- relatively easy to find across the globe. (Including America)
This ofcourse means languages and travel / moving.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Can anyone give more information about engineering?

The main reason I'm not thinking of pursuing it is because of the amount of pressure that will be placed on me...ie. I could easily screw out and cause the downfall of an entire system with a misplaced calculation. I've never heard of a low-pressure engineering job before, and I would like more information on the matter.

I don't know what majoring in engineering is like nowadays, but I've heard that it's a nightmare to get through. The college that I'm going to (Yale-NUS) has a lot of nightmare stories about the engineering degree there, so I'm in reality very very scared.

Not to mention, being in a foreign college is very intimidating, so I'm playing it safe.

Anyone know about the real difficulty of engineering and computer science related majors? And not just a "depends on the teacher" answer. I kind of need a general consensus.

I've also read that engineering majors tend to correlate with very low GPAs (2.75 average). Being a straight A student so far, I'm worried. :S

Even to simply pass an engineering degree with mediocre grades is no walk in the park. I did a four year Bachelors of Civil Engineering majoring in the Environment. Each subject I took was not particularly hard in itself. It was the sheer amount of content one needed to know and bloody 8 hour exams on pieces of legislation and how they effect our designs. EIGHT HOUR EXAMS!! I also did additional subjects so I could get a Bachelors of Applied Science majoring in Mathematics on the side. Anyhow, 120 people started my specific degree. Fifteen people from that initial class graduated. They essentially brutalized us. I did not achieve perfect grades as I wanted, 93% over-all, but still received first class honors and a medallion. A woman I graduated with received a GPA of 100%. She had insane willpower. For me to get the same grades as her I would of had to stop studying other more interesting subjects in my free time.

The guys who started the degree the same time as I and received mediocre grades all gained employment within 2 months of completing their degrees. All earning from 45k to 65k as graduates. Of course the ones with the higher grades get paid more initially. As an engineer gains more experience, the engineer gets paid more. Senior engineers with the specific skill-set of my degree get paid around 165k per year. It is pretty nice.

I am currently questioning why I am doing a PhD in engineering when I can simply get a very well paying job. I guess this is how the cookie crumbles.

 

[Architect]

Yes engineering is tough. Thats why there are a lot of jobs in it that pay really well.

 

[TriflinThomas]

Economics is a specialty degree. You can use it on Wall Street, if that is your inclination, and make lots of money. However you have to 'sell your soul' more so than other jobs, especially engineering. You'd have to wear a suit every work day for example.

I'm going to major in econ, and I don't really mind the 'sell your soul part"

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I'm going to major in econ, and I don't really mind the 'sell your soul part"

Have fun learning incorrect theory. ^_^

 

[Dapper Dan]

Not sure why everyone is lumping Engineering into one category. Kind of a broad spectrum there. :/

As for the ease of Computer Science, I didn't find it very hard. Everything about the subject clicked for me. Zero papers. Most tests were like 5 questions (which can be good or bad). Most teachers were either lazy or progressive enough to shun busywork. Group work was actually enjoyable. I definitely recommend getting into group project type classes in your last two years. They're great resume builders.

Granted I studied in a small department in a pretty meh state university. But I also got a pretty good job with that degree, so that should tell you something.

 

[TriflinThomas]

How is it incorrect theory?

 

[snafupants]

The honor and title of most practical degree is in flux because the barometers that dictate pragmatism (e.g., jobs) are dynamic. The very definition of practical might vary between people as well, which leads to more subjective appraisal. In essence, with or without a solid operational definition of practical, these rankings are impressionistic and flimsy.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Get a PhD in math and do government work for some cryptic acronym-of-a-bureau.

Dave

 

[Yourmother]

Have fun learning incorrect theory. ^_^

Wow, thou art an arrogant douche.

Anyway, the relaying of personal accounts have been semi-helpful so far, although I have my doubts. Does anyone have any hard empirical data about employment in engineering for the current era? Because considering that you people have already been in the world for half a decade or more, the projections for yet another half a decade may not be accurate.

From what I've seen in semi-recent research, engineers can actually have higher unemployment rates than economic degrees (civil engineering has higher unemployment rate than accounting) and other such goodies. I don't know if the statistics here are accurate, but if anyone has any hard-core data, please post it?

http://www.studentsreview.com/unemployment_by_major.php3

Sorry I'm such a dismissive 'tard. It's just that objectivity and accuracy are things that I am really anal about, so...
You know, what worked for you may not work for everyone in general...

 

[EyeSeeCold]

@Yourmother

I'm hesitant about computer engineering because of how behind I am. I haven't even began to touch html coding let alone C+ or python, and I am worried of how far behind I will be when I do start a major on it.
Students that have done coding for years have trouble in the class from what I've heard, so...

http://www.codecademy.com/

Interactively learn:

o Javascript
o Python
o HTML
o CSS
o JQuery

Also: Free Online Programming Lessons

I want to go into CE also but the obstacle for me is the required maths instead of programming proficiency, though I don't even have much programming knowledge either.

 

[Analyzer]

How is it incorrect theory?

Most universities will teach you Keynesian BS. It a created economic model that is failing in the moment. You do learn some useful micro-econ but the as far as central planning, it always fails.

 

[ascii]

http://www.codecademy.com/

I played around on this site for about an hour and it was pretty disappointing. As someone who was already fluent in JavaScript and uses it semi-frequently, I found that while it taught you the basics of JavaScript, you didn't come away from the tutorials actually knowing how to do accomplish anything with the language. It didn't go very in depth on how to integrate JavaScript with other languages (which is crucial, as a standalone language it's almost useless) and didn't explain topics like cookies and other client-side concepts that are essential for every JavaScript programmer to understand, as well as many important language features for doing so. Then again, this was a few months ago so maybe the website has improved since then.

Anyhow, if you want to start learning programming I'd say screw these internet tutorials and just buy a good Ruby book (Ruby is a much better first language than the common choice of Python, but that's a debate for another thread).


As for the actual question asked in this thread, Computer Science/Computer Engineering and Mathematics are two majors that I hear are currently in high demand.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I say double major in finance and computer science.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I played around on this site for about an hour and it was pretty disappointing. As someone who was already fluent in JavaScript and uses it semi-frequently, I found that while it taught you the basics of JavaScript, you didn't come away from the tutorials actually knowing how to do accomplish anything with the language. It didn't go very in depth on how to integrate JavaScript with other languages (which is crucial, as a standalone language it's almost useless) and didn't explain topics like cookies and other client-side concepts that are essential for every JavaScript programmer to understand, as well as many important language features for doing so. Then again, this was a few months ago so maybe the website has improved since then.

Hmm. I got through over half of the JS lessons, and learned a few things; I also completed the available Python courses. Overall, I'd say the most definitive things I learned, besides familiarity and the basics, were how to make purposeful functions/methods in both languages. I don't feel like I'm "thinking like a programmer", I just know how to program some basic stuff.

I did take a look at some lessons from other sites and I notice they were much different in terms of complexity and also format, plus codecademy does not cover becoming familiar with using an interpreter. I guess the site is okay for teaching the basics, I'm still new to programming so I'm not sure what a decent learning method is. And yeah, the site is still in its formative stage, there're still in the process of adding more languages and improving other features.

I think the best thing about codecademy though is its format. The lessons are straightforward, and it uses a reward system to motivate people. It's maybe not the best thing out there but it worked for me in terms of making it entertaining and enjoyable to learn code, unlike tedious books or video lessons.

 

[ascii]

Hmm. I got through over half of the JS lessons, and learned a few things; I also completed the available Python courses. Overall, I'd say the most definitive things I learned, besides familiarity and the basics, were how to make purposeful functions/methods in both languages. I don't feel like I'm "thinking like a programmer", I just know how to program some basic stuff.

I did take a look at some lessons from other sites and I notice they were much different in terms of complexity and also format, plus codecademy does not cover becoming familiar with using an interpreter. I guess the site is okay for teaching the basics, I'm still new to programming so I'm not sure what a decent learning method is. And yeah, the site is still in its formative stage, there're still in the process of adding more languages and improving other features.

I think the best thing about codecademy though is its format. The lessons are straightforward, and it uses a reward system to motivate people. It's maybe not the best thing out there but it worked for me in terms of making it entertaining and enjoyable to learn code, unlike tedious books or video lessons.

Fair enough. I still feel like you can go through all of the tutorials and not know how to create something out of everything you learned, but hey, if you feel like you learned things than the website served its purpose. Another big problem I have with the site, anyhow, is that you type in the editor on their website so once you finish the tutorials you don't have an editor you're familiar with and don't know how to work with multi-file projects and such.

I hope I'm not making this thread get to off-topic, and if I am, please accept my apology OP

 

[Hawkeye]

This is what annoys me about the modern day ethos of college/university.

The whole idea was to go and study subjects that truly interested you. Where one could immerse themselves deeply within these topics. Pushing the boundaries of both themselves and the area of study.

Now it's all about getting a "realistic" and "safe" job.

Spoiler

Personally, I hated the majority of time I spent studying Mechanical and Electronical Engineering at University. The first year was a fantastic experience, learning very heavily theoretical subjects such as Electromagnetism and Electron-hole theory.

Then... It all changed.

For some reason I felt I was treated more as a statistic than a person. The University only seemed interested in the money it was receiving. The lecture notes I received were often highly outdated, such as bigging up a CPU for having 256kb of level II cache...

In my second year, I was tasked to make a robot with a small group, that could direct itself around a short maze and drive up an incline at the end of it. The incline required a gearbox to be made as the motors weren't powerful enough on their own.

For some daft reason, they gave then entire year group the wrong ratio to target, which meant none of the robots would have made it up the slope. They told us to remake our gearboxes from scratch.

In my group however, we figured that by drilling a few extra holes, we could rearrange the cogs to achieve the desired ratio. And this is what we did.

My group lost marks for not redesigning the gearbox from scratch...

This lack of appreciation for creative thinking basically hit the nail on the head for me. Over the following two years, I lost the passion I once had for electronics.

 

[ummidk]

Statistics is going to be the next "big thing" as the world is becoming more inundated with data.

This combined with a majority of the population disliking math or anything to do with numbers, will probably provide a very marketable and well-paying degree.

 

[PhoenixRising]

Actually, the industry that is growing the most right now is computer art and programming. There is no shortage of jobs in these fields. I'm a digital artist/animator/programmer and I had 5 offers for jobs when I graduated from my BA degree in 2010. All of these jobs required art, skill with technical software, and programming knowledge. If you can do both creative and technical, then there are a lot of opportunities out there. There are new studios popping up in places like South America and Asia all the time, as well as studios expanding the number of their employees. The studio where I work is actually looking to fill a production artist position right now, however we have a bright young intern that's pretty much got the job at this point. I'd say mobile app development is one of the most promising areas of digital design right now, since it's pretty new.