The Joker Within

[TBerg]

As I met life, it was whimsical and I was full of...it. It was as though the world around me never quite made sense, and so exploiting the reality for the purpose of a joke became the default stance in the boxing ring. It became perfectly comfortable to impugn others by cackling at them.

It began to change, however, when the cackling began to ricochet back at me. The world appreciated the irony and they accepted the joker as a joker, and so rejected the qualifications of a joker. Thus the joker had to find a way to overcome the obstacle. He put his greatest strength into fighting his greatest weakness, and so the joker became the object of his own derision.

As the derision hollowed out the character of the joker, he was able to execute the demands of the derisive dictator, but diktat does not equal education, and the hole became bigger. It is easy to fall into the abyss.

The joker begins to erect barrier walls against falling into the abyss, but the abyss remains. The space within is emptier than it was before, and so the vital spirit can grow only so much. The vital spirit wants to find a way to grow into the abyss, but moving thereto threatens to suck the spirit into its black hole. There is no escape for the joker who has taken his jokes seriously.

 

[TBerg]

Man, so much of my mental space is wasted by the black hole within. I can't escape its orbit no matter what I do.

I am also deeply ashamed and humiliated by the prospect of having to take drugs and receive welfare, as it enters my foreground that I might have to consider them.

Everything I have ever believed is crashing down. I am crying more than I have since I was a kid.

 

[PaulMaster]

Why do you have to take drugs?

 

[TBerg]

I think I am definitely having anger issues stemming from the autistic inability to relate to those I care about.

 

[TBerg]

I have even alienated myself from them.

 

[TBerg]

This is what I wrote in response to my latest episode:

I don't know what to do. When I treat others the way I treat myself, I still get nowhere. It is like the minute I think I get it, that is when it doesn't work the way I think it does. It is like, no matter how I treat myself and others, the standard that I have figured out is taken away from me.

Since I seem not to work well with others, I just want to be given a job and then be allowed to complete the job without people constantly changing thing on me. I don't intrude upon others and complicate their own work. I feel lost when people keep changing the rules on me. There is no standard for me to work with.

When I think about this situation, it seems as though the changing standards will never be understood by me. That means that I will never be able to say I understand anything for certain and I will always have to ask others at ever single step of the way, since apparently I understand nothing. I will never have anything I can share and tell others, since I am always wrong. Since I am always wrong, then it makes no difference whether I exist or not. People don't have to listen to anything I say and don't have to even acknowledge my questions. I can always assume that anything I say is wrong. That means that my existence is wrong. I should not exist, because the things that are strongly understood by me are not in accordance with anything else in the world.

 

[PaulMaster]

Do you lift weights?

Are you really autistic or is that only a descriptive term you're using?

 

[peoplesuck]

are you highly irritable?

 

[TBerg]

I can be irritable. I do exercise, but not with weights anymore. Exercise seems to increase my "awareness" of things in general, making me more likely to find an irritant. I have self-diagnosed, but reluctantly, because it seems like a death sentence, and I don't have access to services right now.

 

[PaulMaster]

I can be irritable. I do exercise, but not with weights anymore. Exercise seems to increase my "awareness" of things in general, making me more likely to find an irritant. I have self-diagnosed, but reluctantly, because it seems like a death sentence, and I don't have access to services right now.

My advice (not that you asked, and not that I'm a doctor) for almost any situation is more exercise and better diet. Lifting weights for men, especially.

It certainly sounds like you're having a rough time.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I am also deeply ashamed and humiliated by the prospect of having to take drugs and receive welfare, as it enters my foreground that I might have to consider them.

Everything I have ever believed is crashing down. I am crying more than I have since I was a kid.

It's okay, after some time you'll see that this reality check was good for you (every reality check is, embrace them as they come). You'll be able to start climbing again now with firmer, your own, foundations.

Shame and humiliation are the remnants of your ego clinging to the illusions that everything was fine and that you could make it all work the way you tried. They will die and you'll be able to gain new confidence and hope.

 

[Analyzer]

My advice (not that you asked, and not that I'm a doctor) for almost any situation is more exercise and better diet. Lifting weights for men, especially.

It certainly sounds like you're having a rough time.

You don't need weights. All I do is calisthenics and isometric workouts and I am stronger and more flexible than I was when I lifted weights. Sure it's harder but you get a fuller workout.

 

[PaulMaster]

You don't need weights.

Of course not. But weight training is beyond effective.

The reason I suggested it here (and why I might suggest it as a solution in other similar situations) is for the hormonal response. Lifting weights stimulates testosterone production in men. Proper levels go a long way in warding off negative moods and depression. Its the hormone of freedom! It can also be a great release for anger type moods.

Flexibility though...ya...lifting will tighten you up for sure.

 

[TBerg]

I exercised, and I felt better for a time, but I am growing complacent again. I am going to try to cope with some form of penitence for my anger. I don't know how else to keep up any transformation.

 

[Lot]

I feel like you could use this

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/LE6E5RtKB9Q

It sucks having to take a handout, but they are there for a reason. You're having trouble getting a job. That's what it's for. As far as drugs go, you need to get yourself to a doctor to help diagnose you. Then they will help you get what you need, but people on the autistic spectrum do best with therapy specialized in helping people with the particular issues one the spectrum.

If it's any consolation, this random guy on the internet likes you. If I am able to achieve my current dream of starting a farm you are welcome to work on it. I'll even let you set up a trailer on the property. But, I know that's not what you want to do. If you need to man, you might want to start applying to shit jobs. Not sure if you have applied. Even construction. Use it as a stepping stone. Having any job is going to help your self image right now.

Sorry if I'm just saying what you already know. I hate to see you being down on yourself. The joking nature of the video if nice, but I really think the lyrics are good. It might be something you can relate with.

 

[TBerg]

More than anything, I am just desperate for some form of accomplishment I do not have to beg for. Everything I have loved has been made into an object of derision.

 

[Tannhauser]

True motivation comes from seeing hints of results, that's true. But we have to teach ourselves to enjoy the process even when nothing works.

I thought about this problem recently. We are often in a situation were we need results, but feeling that you need the results destroys your ability to achieve them. Controlling the urge to want the result, while enjoying the process is an unsolved paradox for me.

One might say: always only enjoy the process, but that is neither realistic nor optimal, I think. Seeing results changes one's physiology and energizes one in a way not even drugs can.

It seems your physiology has been incapacitated by the lack of results. I know how it feels. But now is the time to assess your situation as lucidly as you can, figure out the next step, forget all the stories about the past you are telling yourself, take everything you have learned this far, and launch yourself into the endless possibilities of tomorrow.

 

[Sinny91]

You just need a stiff drink and a slap on the back.
I'd help if I could. Remember, tough times don't last -tough people do.

Chin fucking up.

 

[bvanevery]

More than anything, I am just desperate for some form of accomplishment I do not have to beg for. Everything I have loved has been made into an object of derision.

I don't have a problem with taking food stamps. I think everyone should eat. We have the technological and industrial capacity to feed everyone in the world many times over with very little societal effort. People are malnourished, go hungry, or starve because the world is basically Capitalist and food production is used as leverage over people. The actual economic value of my food stamps in the USA is a pittance. It's amazing how many small things the hairless apes can find to grouse about. Most people act like they're still in some primordial village where resources are always scarce, and they'd better darn well take all the bananas away from the other primates.

Shelter is a more expensive problem, the way industrial societies currently orchestrate it. I could build something just fine. I've seen an archaeological site in South Dakota, which reconstructed how indigenous people survived the winters there. It's just mud / cobb architecture with tree parts, not rocket science. The amount of stuff that people think has to go into a house, is really ridiculous. The real issue is people want to control land and who their neighbors are.

I solved the shelter problem by learning how to fix my car. I live out of it, most of the time. I don't work for anyone, I just get some gift money from my family at Christmas and on my birthday. I make it last the whole year, by being frugal. I don't have any bad habits that waste money, like alcohol, cigarettes, or drugs. You might consider when you worry about your welfare angst, that being frugal is a legitimate way to exist. Why work your ass off for someone else, then blow it all, just because you think money has to keep flowing? Doing more with less, changes that equation.

I'm an artist, but currently I don't know what to paint. I fear that it's all pointless. It also isn't going to change my economic circumstances any time soon.

I'm still motivated to work on game development. I see that as my life calling. It's a difficult and frustrating road though. I'm not sure I've achieved anything tangible in that dept. Frustrations about achievement, can come from a lot more places than a disability! Also, once you do achieve something, you tend to simply want more. Doesn't have to mean more money, could mean more difficult, more unique, more original, more of a frontier. And so, one keeps moving towards a place where one is more and more frustrated. I found that if it looks easy, I probably don't want to do it.

Be advised that eventually you're gonna die. And everyone who knew you is gonna die. And any long term markers, like tombstones or bronze plaques or whatever, are going to be worn away by the elements. Everything about you, is going to be gone. Nobody will remember you, given long enough. You may have contributed to some long term process of humanity, or you may not. You may have mattered, you may have just been additional baggage on the planet. You will never know, as you will be long since dead, with no cognition about future events at all.

That's depressing. I try not to dwell on it very often. But I think it should be said in this instance. You're worrying about your life. But your life is very likely to be cosmologically pointless anyways, so why beat yourself up so hard about it?

I mean really, "sins of welfare". What gives? You're gonna die. I think you should be glad that you live in a world where people don't just leave you to die in the snow, as too much of a burden in a land of meager resources.

 

[TBerg]

You tell me to embrace my nightmares. I say that is the talk of the Devil, bvanevery. It would be doing what I have already been doing: destroying myself. I will not undergo that transformation again. It involved a lot of anxiety, depression, and dark nights. I will retain my sense of dignity. If you are the Devil, then I am Job.

 

[TBerg]

On another note, why is it that my mom is able to puncture so easily whatever balloon had been taking me away from my abyss?

 

[bvanevery]

There is no Devil. Job is a fictional character. A lot of people wrap themselves up in religious ideas to give themselves a sense of security and purpose. Unfortunately it's a delusion. In your case it doesn't seem to be particularly helping you, you are in darkness anyways.

My point is that recognizing reality for what it is - terrifying, absurd, often pointless - may help you to let go of the guilt and self-loathing you seem to put upon yourself, especially about welfare. You have to make your own purpose, that's all any of us can do. Most of us will never get confirmation on whether our lives had any purpose. Even if they turn out to, we'll be dead by the time the historical verdict is in.

 

[Sinny91]

On another note, why is it that my mom is able to puncture so easily whatever balloon had been taking me away from my abyss?

Don't get me started on -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3j2DwztCFU
​

 

[TBerg]

You missed the part where I said I have already gone to Hell and escaped in a weaker condition. I have hollowed myself before, you know, as can be seen on the OP.

 

[Sinny91]

There is no Devil. .

I think Tberg's beyond reason at the minute.

 

[bvanevery]

I view existence as a big Maze. There are lots of twists and turns in the maze, and lots of ways to get lost. It's this gigantic fractal expanding in many directions. You can keep delving into parts of the fractal that have no relevance at all. It's pretty easy to do. You get X amount of life budget to explore that fractal and then you're dead.

 

[Sinny91]

I view existence as a big Maze. There are lots of twists and turns in the maze, and lots of ways to get lost. It's this gigantic fractal expanding in many directions. You can keep delving into parts of the fractal that have no relevance at all. It's pretty easy to do. You get X amount of life budget to explore that fractal and then you're dead.

I like that.

 

[Sinny91]

​

 

[bvanevery]

So much more complicated than clasping hands together. Remarkable what gestures, actions, or inscriptions people assign to power.

 

[TBerg]

You guys interpret it like I am a religious whack job. I just understand the deep wisdom of the symbology embodied in the Bible.

But more about what is happening:

I think I never learned proper boundaries and etiquette, which may be attributed to autistic traits, and my lack of success pushed me into greater and greater destruction of all boundaries of decency. I am really damaged really badly. I fear continued destruction, which is why I called bvanevery's suggestion satanic.

Throw in dysfunctional gender relations at home, and I am totally lost. Fuck SJWs.

But getting back to holding myself accountable. I don't want to blame anything like "matriarchy" for crimes that involved my collaboration in committing. We are all degenerates now, after all. I really believe subconsciously that I deserve some divine justice and redemption, but I think I must try to experience more of life without interpreting it as such. I need to learn the grace of the universe before any repentence truly works its way into my life. I need to find a way to break open that ego once again. Goddamn it, it is so hard to see after working so hard to drive the brutal reality of social interaction away from your consciousness after having failed so miserably in it. I was so desperately naive before, and I fear my awareness have become even more circumscribed. This is why I say I am on the autistic spectrum. I am so fucking clueless. But according to neoreactionary sociology, at least I am more of a Loser now. Reality has stripped me of some delusion.

 

[TBerg]

Well, now I am feeling happier. This must be countered with humility, or I will be deluded again.

 

[TBerg]

I am an example of Jesus dwelling among the demon-possessed.

 

[Sinny91]

I am an example of Jesus dwelling among the demon-possessed.

I think you're in a very strange frame of mind atm, and that you should beware your own thoughts.

Dunno how wanted or not my opinion is.
But I don't think these are healthy thoughts.

Having said that, I'm no expert.. but I could point you to one. Jason Horsely, the author from the Auti-Culture website I've linked to a few times. All his work is presented taking into account Autistic perception, or whats evs. He has a forum... its a bit slow over there, but you could open up a dialogue if you so wished. I think he would be a very insightful resource/advisor.

 

[TBerg]

As I said, I do not mean it the way you think I mean it. I mean it in the context of a symbolic Christian worldview, and one that respects the reality it points to, rather than depicting realist literally. We all know that words, even powerful ones, only point is towards reality. We must look at what it points to and discern its exact form for ourselves.

I would love to have access to more resources about autism and where I fit within the spectra of traits, but I am in the middle of nowhere and do not have the insurance for even the worse-than-useless services around here.

 

[Sinny91]

America sucks ass man.
You'd have access to everything over here.
Could join me in a phoney marriage if you like... will that get me a free pass into 'Murica? I think it give's you one here - or a good chance of one at least, Haha.

Only jokin. .. unless you ever actually do get that desperate, then youknow - afterall, what else are random people from the internet for?

You'll have to be quick tho, I think the Tories would have dismantled the NHS by the next election.

 

[TBerg]

Yeah, there is a resource exportation from America to the rest of the world in many cases. We still have more output than most other countries, but it is true that we don't have as many services, and sometimes we are too pharmaceuticalized.

I just need to find a way of getting through tomorrow without too much trouble. I had a meltdown last day of the workweek. Humility must be at the forefront of my mind. I must not have any agenda or intent of any kind. I must be willing to take the punishment for my hubris. I must learn to open my soul to it.

 

[TBerg]

I wish I could concentrate to read right now, but my heart too often breathes fire upon my mind. My attention deficit is totally tied to my anxiety about things in general.

 

[Sinny91]

Well I've ran out of things to say... Just try to keep your head above water, and avoid drowning in your own misery .. all things in due course.

Jasun explores things such as 'The Perils of Identity Deconstruction' .... one last plug.

... and I'm out for now .

 

[TBerg]

Goddamn, the medicine might be bitter, but it does work to heal the hole within the soul. Taste it as the bitterness becomes soothing to the throat.

 

[TBerg]

BTW, thanks for the interesting podcast. It was interesting to see conspiracism applied to psychological development.

Here is an interesting counterpoint to the motivation of conspiracism: http://youtu.be/JIQ3FPOD5xE

 

[bvanevery]

You guys interpret it like I am a religious whack job.

Actually for my part I was topic drifting and merely commenting on the Satanic cartoon. Didn't have anything to do with you.

We are all degenerates now, after all.

No we aren't. This is projection and/or your religious world view. A basic tenet of Humanism is it isn't rocket science to figure out how to be a good person, without reference to a deity. Many religious and moral systems existed before Christianity. It wouldn't shock me if they existed before religion as well, although I imagine they were often upended by the biggest brute of the tribe knocking someone over the head with a club and nobody being strong enough to do anything about it. Still, the point is what it means to be a "good" person, is mostly about getting along with your fellow humans without causing hardship to them or killing them. "Good" is usually that which promotes the survival of the herd, although I think respecting the individual member of the herd is important too, and that hasn't always happened in groupthink situations.

 

[TBerg]

Yes, I agree with you definition of good on the level of Nietzsche's death of God. He posited that God was the unifying expression of such an impulse. That means that God becomes the symbol of the ultimate will to power of the herd. Anything that goes against God is therefore detrimental to the continued power of the herd. I cannot escape the herd anymore than I can escape the language I am using right now, which I acquired from my miraculous empathy for the herd, even though I am a weird aspie.

We can see that, since the dissolution of God, that we have often latched onto our own individualized forms of herd survival. What I am saying is that, as we have accepted our own degeneration, we have required lower and lower standards of herd survival, to the point at which we worship that which is detrimental to the group and individual in the long term. Thus, when I say we are all degenerates, it is not only a commentary about our sinful nature in general but a commentary about how far we have fallen into serving the two pagan masters of hedonism and pathological guilt. Thus we feel good as Westerners able to play with our own cultural milieu, but our judgement as cultural agents has fallen so far as to allow others to come and destroy the decadent creations we claim to cherish. Essentially, as I can understand as a former Progressive, we think we can destroy the bully we know by allying with a bully we don't know. We have abandoned our abusive father and have begun to prostitute ourselves to a pimp across the street who wants to destroy our father just as we do. Thus we have followed our id and have compounded the damage we suffered in the first place, finding it in eternal conflict with the superego-God.

 

[TBerg]

Wow, I am able to write...something again.

At any rate, I know that I miss a lot of social reality, and so I am trying to push myself into accepting what seems threatening. And I am realizing that a lot of what really brings me down is behavior that I myself have perpetuated, which is not flattering to anyone. The pride comes before the fall. It really does demonstrate the sinful nature of humankind.

 

[TBerg]

An explication of the word "sin":

http://youtu.be/foLz0D_EmBg

 

[Jennywocky]

Yes, I agree with you definition of good on the level of Nietzsche's death of God. He posited that God was the unifying expression of such an impulse. That means that God becomes the symbol of the ultimate will to power of the herd. Anything that goes against God is therefore detrimental to the continued power of the herd. I cannot escape the herd anymore than I can escape the language I am using right now, which I acquired from my miraculous empathy for the herd, even though I am a weird aspie.

We can see that, since the dissolution of God, that we have often latched onto our own individualized forms of herd survival. What I am saying is that, as we have accepted our own degeneration, we have required lower and lower standards of herd survival, to the point at which we worship that which is detrimental to the group and individual in the long term. Thus, when I say we are all degenerates, it is not only a commentary about our sinful nature in general but a commentary about how far we have fallen into serving the two pagan masters of hedonism and pathological guilt. Thus we feel good as Westerners able to play with our own cultural milieu, but our judgement as cultural agents has fallen so far as to allow others to come and destroy the decadent creations we claim to cherish. Essentially, as I can understand as a former Progressive, we think we can destroy the bully we know by allying with a bully we don't know. We have abandoned our abusive father and have begun to prostitute ourselves to a pimp across the street who wants to destroy our father just as we do. Thus we have followed our id and have compounded the damage we suffered in the first place, finding it in eternal conflict with the superego-God.

You use the word "we," but really... this is all your own thought, as far as I can see it. Like in your next post, when you seem to admit things you have done that are wrong in your eyes -- then immediately feel the need to expand this to indict all humanity because of your specific struggles/deficiencies.

You can't really speak for anyone else, though, or extrapolate in that way. You can only really discuss your own deficiencies.

It would make sense that you are struggling, if this is the worldview under which you labor. And also why you might feel isolated; I suspect people lose the will to engage when you consistently paint everyone with such a broad brush. It's not a matter of being resistant to truth; it's a matter of not wanting to deal with that level of foundless negativity.

 

[TBerg]

I don't mean to be intentionally negative. I just recognize the other side of the coin of optimism. People can accept what I say or not, but it would mean that I have nothing in common with anyone else if what I say did not bring something to bear on the rest of humanity in many circumstances. One of the central themes of the Gospels, from my reading, is that the relatively optimistic Apostles were lost in comparison to the demon-possessed degenerates of the time. The Apostles were obtuse and supercilious while the down-in-the-mouth knew the full extent of the human experience to which Jesus of Nazareth was referring.

 

[bvanevery]

a commentary about our sinful nature in general but a commentary about how far we have fallen into serving the two pagan masters of hedonism and pathological guilt.

I'm not prey to either. I participate in a group called The Ponderer's Cafe in Asheville. One of the rules of the group, is you should be making "I" statements, not "we" statements. People should remember to speak for themselves. If you are wrapped up in notions of sin, degeneration, hedonism, and guilt... well personally I find that regrettable, and I can try to point you towards other frames of reference, but these are really not my problems or something I experience. I have no religious background to make me believe in sin or feel guilty about all kinds of things. I have a sociocultural anthropology degree, so any Political Correctness that might try to make me feel guilty about something, I have the analytical capacity to deconstruct the context and decide things for myself.

 

[bvanevery]

People can accept what I say or not, but it would mean that I have nothing in common with anyone else if what I say did not bring something to bear on the rest of humanity in many circumstances.

You have LOTS in common with other people. I'd say 2/3rds of the people in the Western North Carolina Humanists are recovering from religion in some way, all those feelings of sin, guilt, and shame. The difference between them and you is, they have finally realized it's all baloney. A head trip perpetrated upon them by people who fervently believed in some organized religion or another.

The stories are always striking for me, because I'm one of the lucky ones who wasn't raised with any religious tradition at all. So I have no long term childhood baggage of a belief system postulating that I'm an inadequate person, or that we're all inadequate persons.

I hope you figure this out sometime. I've seen a lot of people on the other side of the struggle.

 

[TBerg]

You guys realize I have been an atheist most of my life, right? Only recently have I understood the validity of a Christian worldview.

 

[bvanevery]

No I didn't know that. And I'm wondering how you came to be atheist.

In my case, I was raised without a religious tradition. I wasn't really given any input on the subject at all. I had plenty of books about dinosaurs and astronauts as a kid. I think by about age 10 I was identifying as atheist. In Cub Scouts we were supposed to say certain things that referenced Christianity and I thought those things were weird, as I had no reason to believe in them. I liked Greek mythology as a kid, all the stories about Zeus and Chronos and stuff. I knew those were myths, why would this God and Jesus be any different?

So, 1) smart enough to figure it out on my own, 2) nobody pushing / pressuring me socially to believe otherwise. I only discovered organized atheism in the past few years.