The femininity and masculinity of personality

[Black Rose]

Since I have been called a girl before I was trying to understand why. So I am making this thread to discuss the essence of femininity and masculinity.

To start off, as a teenager I watched over 30 episodes of The Little Mermaid tv show.

I liked to identify with Ariel (I usually identify with the female characters)

The Little Mermaid - Intro

I think that guys are more into honor and respect where as girls are more about sensitivity and nurture.

I went to a men's group at church and the feeling I got was about how they had problems that revolved around responsibility. That they could not do what they needed to do without turning to Jesus.

If I were to guess I would say that in the women's group they would talk about how Jesus could help them with compassion. And social relationships.

-------

Here are some videos concerning gender.

Is Gender REAL? – 8-Bit Philosophy

What is Woman? (de Beauvoir + Metroid) – 8-Bit Philosophy

I'm Transgender

Farel talks about... Fish Eye!

 

[Black Rose]

Last night I had a dream I was a girl in a high school.

In a separate part of the dream, I met Bruce Willis (not as a girl).

I am dying of heat exustion,
my house is 92 degrees and I have to sleep with a heavy blanket.

 

[Jennywocky]

Since I have been called a girl before I was trying to understand why. So I am making this thread to discuss the essence of femininity and masculinity.

Probably because your manner scans more female-typical than male... rather ethereal, like a scintillating butterfly fluttering through wisps of colorful mist strands.

To start off, as a teenager I watched over 30 episodes of The Little Mermaid tv show. I liked to identify with Ariel (I usually identify with the female characters)

Yeah, see, I don't really know any guys (who identify as guys) who identify with Ariel per se. She's about as extreme female stereotypical trait as one can be. I'm not even sure most adult women relate to her, she's usually a hero for young girls and transgirls and/or gay teens.

Mermaids, you know.

Ariel was a little too much for me. I related to Belle much better, if i had to pick just from those two.

I think that guys are more into honor and respect where as girls are more about sensitivity and nurture.

I went to a men's group at church and the feeling I got was about how they had problems that revolved around responsibility. That they could not do what they needed to do without turning to Jesus.

If I were to guess I would say that in the women's group they would talk about how Jesus could help them with compassion. And social relationships.

Groups that automatically segregate into male and female already shows a difference in opinion in their group about male and female needs (versus being able to be in a shared group).

Women's groups do talk about relationships a great deal. In the conservative Christian churches, they also talk about submission a lot to their husband -- being some kind of submissive, loving, productive wife without feeling resentment when her needs aren't met. Thrilling stuff. But yes, the focus is on relationships in general and how to be supportive; you can be a leader but only with other women.

Male Christian groups I'm aware of and read a lot about -- well, you can just look at the PromiseKeeper movement, for example. How to be the leader your family deserves, like God wants you to be; how to be engaged with your family, maintain your character at work, not break your promises / be trustworthy, etc.

----

I find it more interesting how gender can "scan" when the person isn't an extreme caricature. Like men who scan as male without being an alpha male, and women who scan as female without being totally receptive, warm, and nurturing in the cliche ways....

Last night I had a dream I was a girl in a high school.

In a separate part of the dream, I met Bruce Willis (not as a girl).

I hope he didn't drop you off a building.

 

[Grayman]

A older guy from church would always talk about love and compassion. Another person combined love, duty, and compassion into being the same thing. If you keep the commandment of 'love' then you keep all the commandments.
Fi types

When I say love, in their case, it is rather an emotional expression of connectedness and not the way I see love as being a goal for anothers success.

 

[QuickTwist]

A older guy from church would always talk about love and compassion. Another person combined love, duty, and compassion into being the same thing. If you keep the commandment of 'love' then you keep all the commandments.
Fi types

When I say love, in their case, it is rather an emotional expression of connectedness and not the way I see love as being a goal for anothers success.

Agape love transcends feeling by itself. Its much more concrete and demonstrative than wishy washy sentimental feelings.

 

[The Gopher]

I find it more interesting how gender can "scan" when the person isn't an extreme caricature. Like men who scan as male without being an alpha male, and women who scan as female without being totally receptive, warm, and nurturing in the cliche ways....

Often but not always women pretending to be men online often scan as gay for me. I do think it's easier to scan as male though.

 

[Black Rose]

When Jenny says I scan as a girl or a butterfly, from this chart that is gender expression. Everything else I am more male (gender identity, Biological sex, Sexual Orientation).

Being supportive and focusing on relationships is part of me. I have a good sense of who a person is from the emotions they show. That is because I am an empath.

I can be hurt inside easily. By cartoon stories or people. But I believe in kindness and not getting back at people. I sometimes feel small because and vulnerable and I feel that when I see others that way.

There was a woman my mom knew we met at McDonald's. She had a daughter with downs syndrome. She was bothered I was talking to her mom. I decided to leave and I told the girl, What is the matter, she said "I want you to go", I said by I hope you have fun eating with your mom. I shook her hand and she said by. Later at church, the lady said to me that she was surprised because most people do not know how to handles downs children. She said her daughter was 12 but has the mind of a 4-year-old.

I am very sensitive to the needs of others.

[bimgx=500]http://i.imgur.com/AI7BJSy.jpg[/bimgx]

 

[nanook]

classic example of sexual identity disorder. a hyper male guy / brain, raised by narcissistic women, not allowed to manifest his masculine style in any self-serving action (or even in serving other guys), sees himself reduced to the potential of putting his style into service to the feminine principle. the white knight serves and protects the queen and feels that his life is only about her, to the point where he thinks he practically IS her, all of her values anyway, as she micromanages his behavior and fails to comment on it's intrinsic qualities ("you did your best"), but only comments on how it affects her ("it was not enough"). to identify exclusively with the role you have in the eyes of others is the principle of schizophrenia. to the outside observer, your disowned hyper male traits are still obvious though. people who say otherwise just don't think before they talk. better own that bruce willis inside of you. but its more challenging than that. because bruce willis is mainly what women told you about men, not what men really are - a negative - women describe men mainly as "failing to serve the feminine most of the time". so you would be led astray, if you tried to identify with that bruce willis void, that carries the label "shame on me, for i am a rouge". as long as you misperceive/misidentify your own masculine traits as being feminine in nature, since you put them into service of the feminine, you can not own your masculine traits, you can not put them into any service you choose to. its a challenge for your reflective skills, because you have to recognize yourself in terms of how you go about things, instead of in terms of what you accomplish externally. if you had accomplished more masculine things in life, like supporting a fire squad, winning at team sports, you would not have this challenge. but as it is, you require a higher level of reflection to recognize that, for example, protecting the queen is a masculine thing to do and something the queen herself is incapable of. its the same higher level of reflection that would allow you to see your type more clearly. your confusion about your gender is exactly as random and meaningless as your confusion about type and you are confused in the same manner. you are wondering about how you hope to affect other people, you imagine what they want you to be, say enfj, or you ask them about what they like about you, then you think you are probably just that. "I am very sensitive to the needs of others." "you better be, son, or i will whip your ungrateful ass", says mom.

 

[Reluctantly]

the fuck...

/Vote Nanook

 

[nanook]

men are not insensitive about needs.

we just prioritize needs that are relevant in the long term over needs that are relevant in the short term, because we are specialized for defense, survival, thriving, progress, relative to external or objectified challenges.

women are specialized for nurturing what is, or what is recognized, so they don't prioritize needs as much: when you look at physiology, at nature, at that which is to be nurtured, you must acknowledge that almost everything matters to similar degrees - vitamins, anti-oxidants, minerals, calories, sleep, elimination, movement.

you can't just be hypermale and say "low carb for weight loss and nothing else matters". you will kill yourself with heart disease and dementia.

but women suck at recognizing priorities where they are necessary for success, due to external challenges. for example they think that a "balanced" or diverse diet is more important than a diet without any poison in it. they cant prioritize this one thought of discrimination (no cooked food!) over their many thoughts of embracing the good in everything. so they also kill themselves and their kids. with everything. because civilization offers mainly an infinite diversity of toxic crap.

but man causes much harm by insisting on somewhat randomly discovered priorities (protein is the shit, bro! have more protein!!1!), putting them above everything else, when everything else is still unknown to them.

men had a part in making foods of civilization as toxic as they are. for hard physical labor calories matter more than everything else? well, then just feed people with beer, white sugar, white flour and oil and add toxic salt and chemicals for taste, plus caffeine.

so, when you prioritize any need, such as the needs of your queen, over any other need, such your own needs (you don't even remember those), over the needs of the boys club, then this is a masculine choice you make.

the white knight serves only the queen, despite never even getting laid for it, and he is at war with the rest of the world, just because his queen is and she is all that matters.

meanwhile the princess daughter sleeps with every soldier of both the queens army and of the enemies army, because she does not prioritize anyone's needs over any other needs. or, if this is a movie for the whole family, she takes care of the wounded.

this post is about the definition of the masculine and feminine typological function, it is not about suggesting that biological bodies are limited to only one of those two principles.

the principle does not determine the quality of its results either. both the feminine and masculine principles are applied to stages of cognitive maturity and complexity, so they appear as more or less intelligent versions of themselves. i gave examples for both that are equally mediocre, in cognitive differenciation, and equally harmful in contemporary zeitgeist.

 

[onesteptwostep]

Not sure what the point of the topic is, but being sensitive as a male isn't abnormal or weird or anything. If you're in a relationship, that part, whether it's developed or not, is being used all the time. Males who aren't sensitive won't be able to act responsibly, and irresponsible males tend to be ones who aren't sensitive to the needs of others. You can be assertive and sensitive at the same time, you know. I think you're more describing a passiveness alongside your sensitivity, not sensitivity in itself.

If you were called a girl before and if that bothers you, it's more probably due to your passivity, not sensitivity.

 

[Black Rose]

My mom is not a narcissist.
But she is a single parent.
she never talks to me.
she has mentally delayed self-awareness.

I remember I almost had a girlfriend once. It was in 2009 and a girl walked up to me and asked me if I wanted to go to a picknick. I asked my mom and she was skeptical so I did not go. She seemed like she was right for me. She asked me not me her, she was calm about it and had the same emotional temperament as I did. I do not know when I will meet someone right for me like that again.

I think the reason I had the dream of Bruce Willis is that the day before I saw a video called everything wrong with the fifth element in 9 minutes or less. In my dream, we were escaping some kind of bank/jail. He was telling me where to go.

I do not know why anyone would want me to be ENFJ? That is just my current understanding of typology. Maybe my functions are not fully differentiated yet? When they are not they all blur together.

I like reflection because it makes me feel calm. I've had lots of mental pain for a long time. I try and try to accomplish things but I am not smart enough to and I feel worthless. I know I am supposed to do something but it is hard to figure out. I'm not really good at anything. Reflecting feels much better than feeling like I want to cry all the time, cause I can't do anything.

I recognize that different kinds of girls exist and different personalities. Some make me feel more comfortable than others, same with men's. Some I just do not like. I like to get along and like it when we can really get along.

 

[nanook]

ken wilber explains egos (the masculine principle) and agape (the feminine principle) and how the conscious principle depends on the unconscious one working along, or else, how when the unconscious one is suppressed or deranged, the conscious one breaks down into a pathological version of itself.

in men with broken agape, eros breaks down into phobos. without embracing the roots via genuine agape, the eros drive for ascension does not properly transcend and include but instead detaches from what is and goes crazy. its precisely the lack of agape, the lack of a proper feminine embracing of all of your needs, all of your roots, that renders you shizoid, shizotypal, you name it. a loving woman could wake you up to how you can manifest in masculine manner, instead of just having entirely detached hypermale fantasys about creating A.I.

without agape embracing your roots, your eros is out of touch with its resources and can't meet challenges, so it becomes literally phobic about life, it can't dare to risk feedback, because life touches those dissociated roots, it demands a response from them, which the phobic individual does not want to experience, as it raises the painful lack of love, of agape. you don't love yourself like many modern/healthy women know how to love themselves.


analogous in women: without proper eros, agape breaks down into thanatos, the death drive. its clinging on to rotten roots, instead of spilling seeds and growing new roots. it can't prioritize, it sinks into a mud of pointless hopeless drama.

your mom is self absorbed, or absorbed by something, which renders her unemphatic about who you are, unable to mirror your masculine nature to you, so you don't know who you are either, especially regarding masculine potential. this is the relevant meaning of my wording: narcissism. details about her condition don't matter in this context.

 

[onesteptwostep]

My mom is not a narcissist.
But she is a single parent.
she never talks to me.
she has mentally delayed self-awareness.

I remember I almost had a girlfriend once. It was in 2009 and a girl walked up to me and asked me if I wanted to go to a picknick. I asked my mom and she was skeptical so I did not go. She seemed like she was right for me. She asked me not me her, she was calm about it and had the same emotional temperament as I did. I do not know when I will meet someone right for me like that again.

I think the reason I had the dream of Bruce Willis is that the day before I saw a video called everything wrong with the fifth element in 9 minutes or less. In my dream, we were escaping some kind of bank/jail. He was telling me where to go.

I do not know why anyone would want me to be ENFJ? That is just my current understanding of typology. Maybe my functions are not fully differentiated yet? When they are not they all blur together.

I like reflection because it makes me feel calm. I've had lots of mental pain for a long time. I try and try to accomplish things but I am not smart enough to and I feel worthless. I know I am supposed to do something but it is hard to figure out. I'm not really good at anything. Reflecting feels much better than feeling like I want to cry all the time, cause I can't do anything.

I recognize that different kinds of girls exist and different personalities. Some make me feel more comfortable than others, same with men's. Some I just do not like. I like to get along and like it when we can really get along.

Do you get to go out a lot? Because the impression I get of you from the forums is that you're a indoorsy type of person who takes time introspecting on the internet much more than other people on average. If you do, I wouldn't do that if I were you. If you have time, take a walk or trying up cycling while mindlessly listening to music- in the morning and at night if your streets are safe. I wouldn't try to dwell on these things which you've typed up- they're pointless and they tend to spiral down into nothing.

Try to find inner peace before you really do anything, because if you don't have that figured out, there really isn't much point in trying to do anything in life.

Here's some music because I feel like I'm in a sharing mood right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH-s2Y-XZKA

 

[nanook]

my mother granted me a lot of self-acceptance, but the masculine aspect of me was mostly closed out. it wasn't even so much her own dislike of the masculine, albeit she certainly lacked a proper understanding of healthy masculinity, as it was her feminine/agape or rather thanatos based support of the pathological masculinity of my father. since my father is a narcissist, there can only be one masculine voice in the house and i was not allowed to emerge and appear as "competition" to him. my father would have taken his anger at me out on my mother, shouting at her for hours for her supposed inability to enforce disciplinary boundaries on me, obedience to which, ironically, in his view, would have made me "male", according to the image of his own masculine will. in reality she failed to suppress my authentic masculinity, since she was not violent and so she was punished for that. so then i made the masculine choice to protect my mother from my father. via my own masculinity i chose to prioritize, to ban my masculinity from my real life, to not bring my mother into this situation again. i chose to limit my masculinity to the realm of fantasies, where i was just playing cowboy. my sister did not do it like me. she did not loose sight on a greater vision of her life, of where her roots needed to grow, her needs relative to that. she was dramatic, there were fights, all conflicts were acted out and everything of her own was of course automatically in conflict with my controlling father. but she was conditioned in the process of fighting, unknowingly. to this day, she does not quite realize how much she became a copy of my father by fighting with him. her unconscious masculine principle was highjacked by him, its like a demon attached to her, sabotaging the expression of her feminine principle. her feminine is entirely thanatos, she is totally suffocating her kids, not allowing a bit of masculinity in her son, because the demon ghost of my father competes with him. my masculine strategy sacrificed my external life, but it worked for me in so far as by retreating into fantasies i maintained reflective autonomy, i have more self-awareness than many, my life was not about reacting to my father, but about doing my own, albeit somewhat fantastic, thing. so i am still much more male than my sister. which is to be expected of course. however my agape is totally broken, rendering me phobic. i can't sense having root, substance, anything worth protecting, fighting for, i am void. so its not that i am less damaged, i guess, i just have a different damage.

so basically parenting kills. don't become a parent.

 

[Jennywocky]

My mom is not a narcissist.
But she is a single parent.
she never talks to me.
she has mentally delayed self-awareness.

I remember I almost had a girlfriend once. It was in 2009 and a girl walked up to me and asked me if I wanted to go to a picknick. I asked my mom and she was skeptical so I did not go. She seemed like she was right for me. She asked me not me her, she was calm about it and had the same emotional temperament as I did. I do not know when I will meet someone right for me like that again.

Around how old were you in 2009? General age, not specific, if you want.

I don't find there to be enough information in your statements to really grasp the dynamics, in terms of parsing things out. (I'm no Nanook, able to assume an entire assessment with no real specific data.)

I mean, sometimes it's appropriate to heed the skepticism of a parent. And it's a bitch being a single parent... you have the well-being of a kid to think about and totally in your care and it can be scary to risk them getting hurt. At the same time, parents of either gender usually try to provide a child with degrees of increasing freedom and reasonable risk as they age, so that they can development competence and independence.

It also sounds like you felt your mom made an incorrect decision but you heeded it anyway and now regret it. It is now eight years later so you're in a position where you should be able to make decisions for yourself in that regard; maybe in the future you will need to take advantage of opportunities, even if it doesn't gel with what your mom wants.

I think the reason I had the dream of Bruce Willis is that the day before I saw a video called everything wrong with the fifth element in 9 minutes or less. In my dream, we were escaping some kind of bank/jail. He was telling me where to go.

I see dreams as the unpacking of our daily emotional and practical concerns, filtered through the language of the memories we captured that day... IOW, Bruce Willis showed up because of the video you watched, but the escape from a jail thing is expressing something about your internalized concerns. It sounds plausible that a competent and assertive male figure was lending you power and direction to help you escape from a situation you feel trapped within. You want to be independent and possess some power, but right now you still feel unable/trapped.

Power can hurt people at times (note Bruce Willis), but he also can accomplish good things because sometimes hurt is part of the process and/or people are fighting for the wrong things.

I do not know why anyone would want me to be ENFJ? That is just my current understanding of typology. Maybe my functions are not fully differentiated yet? When they are not they all blur together.

From what you are describing (in terms of your experiences), you seem old enough to possess adult power but have not yet claimed it, remaining in the role of a child. You don't feel competent with anything, you feel you must still answer to your mom, and your only outlets are more reflective and passive in nature. It's like power scares you for some reason, maybe because you fear it could hurt others? I see that too reflected in your comments. You are sensitive and don't enjoy hurting others. But it might also be hindering your ability to claim power and become truly independent.

God, I'm having trouble recalling my dreams but I remember in my 30's going through a stage in life where I just was trying to learn to embrace my adulthood, no longer worry about pleasing others, allowing them to care for their own hurts because the burden was unfair to me (it's part of adulthood for all of us to learn to shoulder our own pain a bit), etc. I just remember having these turbulent dreams about it, like emerging from the chrysalis, dreaming of feeling like I had power and was efficacious.

Like I have noted, this is something people of both genders go through... we all learn when to be empathetic and when to be assertive, if we are to be effective. ..

 

[Black Rose]

Around how old were you in 2009? General age, not specific, if you want.

22

I spend my entire adult life around social workers. At the time (2009) I was in a trailer with someone from the halfway house I stayed at for two years.
I do not know what it would mean to claim my power.
I have felt helpless and alone a long time.
The only thing I can think of is to become more in control of my emotional and cognitive state. I was a very quiet teenager and not assertive nor trying to be independent. When I see how some teens are highly independent I sometimes see this as them being smarter than me. The only thing I did in school was school work. I had no life. (or friends)

 

[onesteptwostep]

Well, you're accepted here AK. ;]

 

[Jennywocky]

22

I spend my entire adult life around social workers. At the time (2009) I was in a trailer with someone from the halfway house I stayed at for two years.
I do not know what it would mean to claim my power.
I have felt helpless and alone a long time.
The only thing I can think of is to become more in control of my emotional and cognitive state. I was a very quiet teenager and not assertive nor trying to be independent. When I see how some teens are highly independent I sometimes see this as them being smarter than me. The only thing I did in school was school work. I had no life. (or friends)

I think for me it was learning to make decisions regardless of how others felt about them or who might reject me. So even if I experienced disapproval from my parents or others in authority, it was okay because if I really believed in my decision(s), then I needed to pursue them. It was my life to live, not theirs. I did a lot of stuff on the surface to either win approval and/or be left alone by others and would avoid situations of risk, but I also felt very trapped and like I would lose everything if I just started doing my own thing openly.

Also, to really realize I had autonomy in the world, and that no one was going to save me or make my life better if I did not make the changes myself. I was actually the adult and the locus of agency in my life and had to take ownership of that if I wanted to be happy and feel like I had autonomy.

I still feel proud of myself for seemingly small dumb things that most people seemed to have learned what to do at earlier ages. Last month, I realized something got screwed up with some finances and I was really in trouble with something, with no real time to waste. I remember days in my past where I would have fretted about it, tried to figure out internally what to do and whether someone could actually help me and whether they could just take me if I walked in... and I would have done nothing for a long time. Instead, I was driving through the area and just decided to stop there and try to talk to them directly even if it was against protocol and get the damned matter resolved.. and I walked in, and they actually were fine with taking me, and they fixed my problem in about ten minutes, simply because instead of overthinking it or having it all figured out ahead of time, I just threw myself into the situation, blind, and made it get resolved. For some people, that is their first response; for me, it's something I had to learn and helped me feel more empowered.

It's a good thing to have control over your own emotional and cognitive state; but note that that is all internal. It's a GREAT thing, but if that is all it is, it will leave you captive to EXTERNAL forces... it is a retreat inside and abandoning the external world. But the external world actually still does impact you. If you are feeling helpless and lonely, that sounds like something that is coming from abdicating your external reality.

 

[Black Rose]

http://personality-testing.info/tests/EQSQ.php

my results

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathizing–systemizing_theory

Baron-Cohen's work in systemizing-empathizing led him to investigate whether higher levels of fetal testosterone explain the increased prevalence of autism spectrum disorders among males[26] in his theory is known as the "extreme male brain" theory of autism. A review of his book The Essential Difference (ISBN 978-0-7139-9671-5) published in Nature in 2003 summarizes his proposals as: "the male brain is programmed to systemize and the female brain to empathize ... Asperger's syndrome represents the extreme male brain".[27]
Baron-Cohen and colleagues extended the E-S theory into the extreme male brain theory of autism, which hypothesizes that autism shows an extreme of the typical male profile.[1] This theory divides people into five groups:

Type E, whose empathy is at a significantly higher level than their systemizing (E>S).
Type S, whose systemizing at a significantly higher level than their empathy (S>E).
Type B (for balanced), whose empathy is at the same level as their systemizing (E=S).
Extreme Type E, whose empathy is above average but whose systemizing is below average (E>>S).
Extreme Type S, whose systemizing is above average but whose empathy is below average (S>>E).
Baron-Cohen says that tests of the E-S model show that twice as many females than males are Type E and twice as many males than females are Type S. 65% of people with autism spectrum conditions are Extreme Type S.[3] The concept of the Extreme Type E brain has been proposed; however, little research has been conducted on this brain profile.[22]

Apart from the research using EQ and SQ, several other similar tests also have found female and male differences and that people with autism or Asperger syndrome on average score similarly to but more extremely than the average male.[28] For example, the brain differences model provides a broad overview of sex differences that are represented in individuals with autism, including brain structures and hormone levels.[22]

Some, but not all, studies have found that brain regions that differ in average size between males and females also differ similarly between people who have autism and those who do not have autism.[28]

Baron-Cohen's research on relatives of people with Asperger syndrome and autism found that their fathers and grandfathers are twice as likely to be engineers as the general population.[29] Natural science students have more relatives with autism than humanities students. Another similar finding by Baron-Cohen in California has been referred to as the Silicon Valley phenomenon, where a large portion of the population works in technical fields, and he says autism prevalence rates are ten times higher than the average of the US population.[30] These data suggest that genetics and the environment play a role in autism prevalence, and children with technically minded parents are therefore more likely to be diagnosed with autism.[30]

Baron-Cohen's studies have been questioned. The overrepresentation of engineers could depend on a sampling bias,[6] and a 2010 analysis of autism diagnoses in California did not find that autism clustered preferentially around areas rich in IT industry. Instead, it found that clusters tended to occur in areas where parents were older and educated to a higher level than were parents in surrounding areas.[7]

Another possibility has been proposed that spins the perspective of the extreme male brain. Social theorists have been investigating the concept that females have protective factors against autism by having a more developed language repertoire and more empathy skills. Female children speak earlier and use language more than their male counterparts, and the lack of this skill translates into many symptoms of autism, offering another explanation for the discrepancy in prevalence.[22]

Cognitive versus affective empathy[edit]
See also: Empathy § Affective and cognitive
Empathy can been subdivided into two major components:
cognitive empathy (also termed 'mentalizing'), the ability to understand another's mental state;
affective or emotional empathy, the ability to emotionally respond to another's mental states. Affective empathy can be subdivided into personal distress (self-centered feelings of discomfort and anxiety in response to another's suffering) and empathic concern (sympathy towards others that are suffering).[43][44]
Studies found that individuals with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) self-report lower levels of empathic concern, show less or absent comforting responses toward someone who is suffering, and report equal or higher levels of personal distress compared to controls.[43] The combination of reduced empathic concern and increased personal distress may lead to the overall reduction of empathy in ASD.[43]

Studies also suggest that individuals with ASD may have impaired theory of mind, involving the ability to understand the perspectives of others.[45] The terms cognitive empathy and theory of mind are often used synonymously, but due to a lack of studies comparing theory of mind with types of empathy, it is unclear whether these are equivalent.[45] Notably, many reports on the empathic deficits of individuals with Asperger syndrome are actually based on impairments in theory of mind.[45][46][47]

Baron-Cohen argued that psychopathy is associated with intact cognitive empathy but reduced affective empathy while ASD is associated with both reduced cognitive and affective empathy.[48]

 

[k9a4b]

My understanding of gender is masculine is more logical and feminine is more intuitive

 

[washti]

your understending is soo deep.

 

[k9a4b]

your understending is soo deep.

Yes and yours is very shallow. How unfortunate for you

 

[Happy]

I'm with washti on this one. That's a seriously shallow understanding of gender...

 

[k9a4b]

I'm with washti on this one. That's a seriously shallow understanding of gender...

There really is not much difference between the male and female mind other than what I stated

 

[Black Rose]

I have recently begun to know how my Type relates to the feminine traits I display on the internet and perhaps in real life. I am an INFJ male. Many here have said INFJ males are the cutest of the types. A member once said INFJ personality is like watching a puppy made of water try and fold towels with a committed effort not to get them wet.

I explain the INFJ functions this way. The second function detects negative and positive affect in others. They are extremely sensitive to it. Ni is the sum total of the unconscious so this means that by experience representations are built up over time of what causes negative and positive affect in others. An INFJ can simply just know what is wrong in a situation that is already contained inside them. Ni will bring to the surface of the unconscious a feeling and the INFJ will detect it because it came from within what is happening. Engagement in positive and negative situations both emerge from Ni having all negative and positive representation operate at the same time subconsciously.

Ni can be used for other things as in representations but it will be abstract and aesthetic. Once a representation is in the subconscious it can combine with other representations. The unconscious is a web of interrelated representations. The wild woo-woo nature of Ni comes from Ni connecting dots below the radar of the conscious. Crazy ideas come out then from it. This is a benefit also from what is known about people from Fe. Encountering a person and immediately getting along is because of a detection of the features already stored in Ni. Qualities and traits mix together that match the person the INFJ meets. Same for spiritual ideas. An idea forms and it is unique and is fleshed out to the extent of its size. Ni ideas are not one dimensional.

As to how INFJ's are feminine (including male INFJ's), The INFJ has such good communications skills and generally because they detect and intuit negative and positive effect so well. They are seen as highly empathetic. They act as if they care because they understand you so well as to act appropriately. Making people feel listened to and understood. I said before that I watched at least 30 episodes of The Little Mermaid before I was 15. Jenny Wocky said it is generally that most boys would hate that show. I loved that show because my whole system operates on affect and empathy. I could relate to Aerial because of how she treated others. That is how I felt others and myself should be treated.

Other people affect me emotionally. And I try to relate to others and because I can make people feel understood and listened to, this is the reason people see me as a girl online. I suppose that because Jenny says I scan as a female that I am showing emotions and feelings like any other female here on the forum does. And it must be from my type which is INFJ. I made this thread with the intention of having others help me understand masculinity and feminity. But not much happened, except for Jenny's input.

One thing that heard recently is that guys like things and girls like people. This is theorized why boys have way more autistic cases than girls. If you socialize all the time you understand people. This could also mean you know what others needs are. I said I was sensitive to others needs. I said that because of my ability to detect things in communications with others. I think that yes I am a male so I am drawn to things but not like a Te dom or a ISTP. I am more in the realm of abstract potential for a thing to become a device as used in a puzzle for larger idea system. My fascination with A.I. was all about the characters in video games that I wanted to exist. But the fact of the matter is that I had no idea how computers worked. I had a school project about A.I. in high school. But after graduation went into a depression and the hospital. Had one semester of college in 2007 and half a semester this year. My problem is that my ideas are not practical and are too abstract. I suck at technology. My goals are too ambitious to succeed. Being into abstract Ni ideas hindered me greatly learning in school, even if I was in gifted programs. My ideas were too creative so they did not work.

Generally, I am good at communication, listening and empathy so I conclude this is why I seem like a girl. I do like things but being too creative means you wind up a failer. I made a comment on someone youtube video about how my mind works. Here it is if you would like to read it.

I just discovered something called the perception action cycle. It allows the brain to model reality and the results of its actions.
It is a first step to A.I. development. I also discovered that internal feedback allows the brain to generate creative ideas like paintings or lord of the rings. I kind of lack internal generation but I am good at external generation/creativity. I store in my brain abstractions that are neither visual nor auditory. Not because I cannot think abstractly about them but because I do not see them. An example is Micky Mouse. I know exactly what Micky Mouse looks like and what actions he has done in cartoons but I cannot see him in my head. I term has been coined called blind sight, I would say I have blind imagination. I am still able to know what Micky mouse looks like. People would not believe me if I told them. I do have dreams but they are dim with shadows and not much light. I find it fascinating that people can internally generate. A plus side to that is they need no external source to have fun. I generate externally so I often get bumps in life where I have nothing to do and this makes me sad. I need to be constantly busy to feel like I am achieving self-actualization. I use the internet all the time because it is the best tool for me to gain ideas. External reference helps me get ideas. If you know about Introverted Intuition I have been into Jungian typology so long that the consensus of the forums I visit is INFJ. (Ni takes everything in the unconscious and converges on abstract insights)(Fe is sensitive to negative and positive affect in people)(Combined Ni and Fe model others unconsciously and thus understand the best communication when encountering others) This is a long comment but I am currently looking into how different ways of thinking affect people. I know you can use this information to expand your understanding of the mental landscape and I think it adds to your video because different ways of thinking is something to learn about if you want to be more intelligent. Great video Jeffery.

 

[k9a4b]

^^ Interesting to read even though it was very long winded. How old are you? Why do you want to be feminine? Feminine is weak. Better to be strong and masculine. Even girls want to be strong and masculine. Girls wish they had a big penis and testicles.

Strong people like things and weak people like strong people. That's because weak people are dependent and strong people are independent.

I was in gifted programs too. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Maybe they just call them gifted programs to make the retarded children feel better?

 

[Black Rose]

I don't know how you define strong and weak.
Do you mean dominance and submissiveness?
I have kicked peoples asses before but I am gentle as a dove.
I am 29 years old.

 

[k9a4b]

I don't know how you define strong and weak.
Do you mean dominance and submissiveness?
I have kicked peoples asses before but I am gentle as a dove.
I am 29 years old.

Yes I mean dominance and submissiveness

 

[Black Rose]

Yes I mean dominance and submissiveness

There are two ways to get along in society.
Competitiveness and Cooperativeness.
My entire way of being as an INFJ is cooperativeness.
Competitiveness is more an introverted feeling thing.

 

[k9a4b]

Competitiveness is more an introverted feeling thing.

No, competitiveness is more a strength thing. Cooperative people adopt that strategy because they are weak and cannot compete with stronger and more competent people. Like how cats will pretend to be your friend when they want something. Altruism is fundamentally selfish

 

[Black Rose]

No, competitiveness is more a strength thing. Cooperative people adopt that strategy because they are weak and cannot compete with stronger and more competent people. Like how cats will pretend to be your friend when they want something. Altruism is fundamentally selfish

Can you give an example in today's society like in the united states?
how are people competing and how are people cooperating,
I think the context would be in a career and work environment.

 

[k9a4b]

Can you give an example in today's society like in the united states?
how are people competing and how are people cooperating,
I think the context would be in a career and work environment.

Some guy has a company and makes a lot of money and people come to him and offer their help in exchange for some of his money (cooperating)

Some other guy doesn't like making only a little amount of money while this other idiot gets rich so decides to make his own company doing the same thing (competing)

 

[TransientMoment]

@k9a4b Altruism isn't fundamentally selfish! Selfishness is only considering one's own wishes and manipulating others to include them. If, on the other hand, you incorporate the wishes of others into your own wish and try to gain mutual happiness, as would be the case in a human's attempt at altruism (though I agree humans can't be truly altruistic on their own), then it wouldn't be "selfish". The idea that men need to be competitive to be strong is a stereotype promoted by the general majority of men who, in their own right, technically feel insecure (ISTJ) or find affirmation in feeling strong and believe they have to prove it (e.g. ESTP). They may say, "The other guy is having success, more than me, so I need to do something about it to preserve my security of status/pride/etc." It's easy to be sucked into this mentality when you live in such a culture. While I agree that some - even many - people do adopt those strategies you mentioned for the reasons you mentioned, it doesn't necessarily mean strength. In most cases, I'd say it's weakness of ego. Your examples aren't supporting your argument (which may not have been your intention) primarily because you answered the literal question and not in the full context of the conversation. How does cooperating in exchange for money make a person weak? Because they have to make a deal? There are plenty of incentives to cooperate: it's cheaper, it's less hassle, and making friends via cooperation gives you a social benefit. Competing, on the other hand, could be a sign you are weak - of spirit, mind, self-worth, etc. - and therefore feel the urge to "prove" yourself by putting others down. @AK I do find it quite interesting that you identify as INFJ. I was rather curious as to what that would be like, though I can see it has the similar feeling of social-awkwardness as INTP women. I do think though that you'll need to assert yourself. It may hurt emotionally, but think instead about the wonderful person you can become if you push your boundaries abit and take charge of your life. That's not necessarily competition (though, yes, it could be), but you'll just have to find something else that motivates you. Use that goal/vision/desire to help you leverage YOURSELF out of this psychological prison you've let yourself fall into. You're the gatekeeper of the prison after all.

 

[Black Rose]

Animekitty: ISFJ

36.3% of women are xSFJ types
20% of women are xSFP types

27.6% of men are xSTJ types
15.6% of men are xSFJ types


56.5% of men are Thinkers
75.5% of women are Feelers

 

[Black Rose]

Males have a feminine side and Females have a masculine side which Jung calls the Anima and Animus. The masculine can be embodied as power and control, the feminine as gentle and nurturing. Women take care of infants and devote themselves to keeping this vulnerable thing alive and settling in one place. Men are hunters women are gathers. that is evolution. Women would stay in one place, Men would protect this place and hunt. In tribes of 300 people. The difference of the soft and the firm. The Anima in the man comes from the gentleness of the mother and all the experience with females he has had in his life. He identifies as male from the outside but inside the Anima is the female side. The female looks to the father and then all males as her Animus. She identifies as female from the femininity of the females around her as nurturing and tenderness.

The males Anima may be suppressed or it may be accepted. Embracing the Anima in them they become more in touch with emotional intuition. Whereas the rejection of the Anima the male becomes blunt and exceedingly direct in action and thought. Women when becoming in touch with their Animus become confident and bold. Rejecting the Animus the female becomes exceptionally meek and timid and submissive. She will identify as tender and be nurturing but not independent.

To become a whole person we must embrace the inner male and female. Going to the extreme will not make you as you could be. You must be more than you are now and everything that is possible for you. To be whole. Not split. Together with who you are inside.

 

[TransientMoment]

lol - Hijack of Latin there by Jung. ("Anima" is Greek for the life-force of animals - nothing to do with personality, but the endings "a" and "us" are for feminine and masculine declensions (respectively) in Latin.)

I wouldn't say males get their emotional side from females around them. I think they already have it. People in general have both. Heck, we're on a forum with a bunch of rational women.

Human males have separated halves of their brains until a certain age when it all comes together. For most males, it's the rational half they're usually on, so they grow up seeing the world in the logical sense: survive, achieve what's best, pursue best ROI. This is especially true for INTPs, which is why emotions are so embarrassing at first.

For you, @Animekitty , maybe it just happened to be the other way around. And maybe now you've reached or have started to reach that time in your life when you get the other half, started rationalizing and having fun toying with such ideas.. and you end up with a weird existential crisis like the rest of us. Did I say that out loud?

Interestingly enough, some men avoid accepting their emotional sides to the point of considering it an alter ego, "not them", and maybe even naming it. It's a matter of pride, of course - they don't want to be seen as feminine according to their own standards.

In truth, the perceptions of femininity and masculinity have been shaped by the more populous types (males: ISTJ (devoted suburban soldier), ESTP (tough-as-nails, big-muscle, gun-wielding beer jocks; females: ESFJ (outgoing, pretentious emos keeping up with the Joneses)). Notably, it is ESTPs - the creators of the "manly man" stereotype - who seem to be most prone to rejecting their emo halves. (Gee, I wonder why them? /sarcasm)

Not that it doesn't help having some way to distinguish men and women in conversation, but admittedly the other personalities don't get as much influence on the common stereotypes.

And yes, accepting your other half AS YOU and working with it does make you a more complete human. It also makes it easier to start admitting things about yourself that you were otherwise too afraid to admit... or would only confess under anonymous aliases on remote internet forums.... ..... .... *starts whistling*

(Minor note: Evolution is not a mechanism with a plan for a species' survival. It's a dumb-luck, roll-of-the-dice where there's a chance maybe something will work out. (Note that for some creatures, the gender roles is in reverse).)

 

[aiyanah]

um, i think it's just vagina envy
the women experience penis envy through whatever various means people experience these things.

i'm doing this right now with one of my preferred aliases of aiyanah, lol.
also through my music preferences mostly including female vocals if there are vocals.
also art choices, of perhaps 12k images saved perhaps 100 are of male characters.

do i want observers to experience this alias as a feminine one? probably not cause that leads to highly unnecessary complexity.
it is definitely a complex alias though, which is likely why i stick to the heteroenvy thing, it hides unyielding complexity and perhaps makes that complexity more palatable at the same time.
then again i do just like the shape of women, why would i want a male figure to look at when i post? seems crazy to me

 

[Black Rose]

I am scared of being forceful with others. I don't want my feelings hurt. I feel like I am the person in the wrong. I feel it is my responsibility to be the rational objective one. But I am not smart enough to make the legitimate point so I just feel like I am being bullied. Nothing I say or do is seen as right and tried and still feel like a failure.

I feel helpless. vulnerable. weak. unaccepted.
I often feel nothing matters.

Males are externally oriented.
Females are internal.

It is hard for men to handle their internal world. Suppress it to be external, females are oposite. They block the external. They don't suppress the internal.

To be torn apart inside destabilize male and female. Become passive so no more damage happens. Become sensitive to what caused the damage.

Being damaged is different from integrity through suppression. It is a difference between wholistic wide awareness and narrow-focused awareness.

How pain is handled by gender internal or external is going to be different results.

 

[Grayman]

I am scared of being forceful with others. I don't want my feelings hurt. I feel like I am the person in the wrong. I feel it is my responsibility to be the rational objective one. But I am not smart enough to make the legitimate point so I just feel like I am being bullied. Nothing I say or do is seen as right and tried and still feel like a failure.

I feel helpless. vulnerable. weak. unaccepted.
I often feel nothing matters.

Males are externally oriented.
Females are internal.

It is hard for men to handle their internal world. Suppress it to be external, females are oposite. They block the external. They don't suppress the internal.

To be torn apart inside destabilize male and female. Become passive so no more damage happens. Become sensitive to what caused the damage.

Being damaged is different from integrity through suppression. It is a difference between wholistic wide awareness and narrow-focused awareness.

How pain is handled by gender internal or external is going to be different results.

Wouldn't people normally be afraid of hurting the feelings 'others' by being forceful? I don't understand how this would result in the decimation of your own feelings...... Unless you suffer from social anxiety and that can cause unrealistic fears and guilt and continued obsessive thoughts about the thousands of ways a thing might be misinterpreted or judged.

In general women are more social and their emotions are directly connected to others in a fundamental way. Of course we are dealing with generalizations.

I think, on general, females are more likely to have an connection to others that can leave them susceptible to toxic relationships. Men do not, but tend to fail to see the value of connections and are more likely to miss out good connections that could bring more value to their life.

One thing men and women come at from different angles is the rational emotional lense. Women are more susceptible to seeing emotions as the true lense in which to view reality. If you feel like something is happening, then it must be.
Men are more likely to be able to see what is happening objectively but fail to address the emotional component after they have made that realization and can fail to ascribe proper meaning to things.

 

[Black Rose]

The Killers - Somebody Told Me LYRICS

‘Real Time’s’ Bill Maher Claims Rise Of LGBTQ May Be Sparked By Need To Be Trendy

​

 

[Black Rose]

femme butch scale

 

[Black Rose]

her·maph·ro·dite
/hərˈmafrədīt/
Learn to pronounce
noun
an organism having both male and female sex organs or other sexual characteristics, either abnormally or (in the case of some organisms) as the natural condition.

https://sailormoon.fandom.com/wiki/Fish_Eye_(anime)

 

[Black Rose]

The death of the tomboy

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[Black Rose]

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Femboy

 

[Black Rose]

SpongeBob SquarePants - Am I a pretty girl?

​

 

[Black Rose]

Trap - Urban Dictionaryhttps://www.urbandictionary.com › define › term=trap
A word popular in the anime community to describe characters who look the opposite gender. It applies to both males and females, though it is most commonly used ...

trap
in anime, a boy that is so feminine, he looks like a girl; often more attractive than other girls.
traps aren't gay, because boi pucci

Felix Argyle (フェリックス・アーガイル), commonly known as Ferris (フェリス), is Crusch Karsten's knight. Debuting in Arc 3, he played a rather vital role as Crusch's knight and supported Subaru in his fight against the Hakugei and Sin Archbishop of Sloth.

Ferris

Felix Argyle (フェリックス・アーガイル), commonly known as Ferris (フェリス), is Crusch Karsten's knight, a member of her camp, and a member of the Royal Guard. He plays a major supporting role in Arc 3 and a supporting role in Arc 5. He is also one of the main protagonists of Ex 1. Though born of the fallen...

rezero.fandom.com

 

[Black Rose]

Sexual dimorphism is the condition where the sexes of the same species exhibit different morphological characteristics, particularly characteristics not directly involved in reproduction.[1] The condition occurs in most animals and some plants. Differences may include secondary sex characteristics, size, weight, colour, markings, or behavioural or cognitive traits. These differences may be subtle or exaggerated and may be subjected to sexual selection and natural selection. The opposite of dimorphism is monomorphism, which is when both biological sexes are phenotypically indistinguishable from each other.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism

 

[Black Rose]

Cross-dressing is the act of wearing clothes usually worn by a different gender.[2] From as early as pre-modern history, cross-dressing has been practiced in order to disguise, comfort, entertain, and self-express oneself.[3]

Cross-dressing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A drag queen is a person, usually male, who uses drag clothing and makeup to imitate and often exaggerate female gender signifiers and gender roles for entertainment purposes. In modern times, drag queens are associated with gay men and gay culture, but people of other genders and sexual identities also perform as drag queens.

Drag queen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Black Rose]

What does girly girl mean?
Girlie things are suitable for girls or women rather than men or boys. A girlie person likes girlie things. [informal, disapproval] She swapped her plain suit for a girlie dress.

Girlie definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionaryhttps://www.collinsdictionary.com › dictionary › girlie
What does girly mean slang?
Usually Disparaging and Offensive. of, characteristic of, or befitting girls or young women; feminine in a traditional way: a girlie girl who likes everything sparkly and pink;high-pitched girlie voices. Usually Disparaging and Offensive. (especially of a man) effeminate or timid.

Girlie Definition & Meaning - Dictionary.com

brony (plural bronies)

(fandom slang) A (usually major) fan of the animated television series My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, typically an adult male.
Usage notes
Due to various controversies, such as prominent members of the brony fandom being members of alt-right or fascist groups, or hostility towards feminists and minority fans, some progressive-aligned or leftist fans of MLP:FiM use the terms "pony fan", "MLP fan", "My Little Pony fan" instead of "brony".