The Development of INTP Children

[Pythia]

Link to source

Found this the other day while doing some research on INTP stuff. I thought it was a very interesting view of the INTP kid, since I don't recall having been so difficult as a child. People didn't comment much on the original post, though, and I'm curious of what you guys think.

I searched through the forum in case it had been posted before, and the most similar post I found was this: link (however, I'm not very good finding things), and I want to discuss a different point than the approached there.

The first thing that came to my mind when I read the article was that I was never so adventurous. On the contrary, I was usually very calmed and respectful of rules, cautious with my words, and worried of being liked by other people. I always got along better with adults, though; other kids were rather stressful, mostly because I used to feel the need to mother their incompetent and reckless little selves.

Of course, that's only my side of the story. I felt the need to email my mom the link to the article, and I'm still waiting for her opinion. Maybe I was difficult and didn't see it that way... very unlikely, but just in case.

I also remember pressuring myself to be perfect at everything: get perfect grades, have perfect (i.e. popular and pretty) friends, and overall with being perfect myself (I didn't like myself much, and was unhappy even about my handwriting). However, I also remember that the first time I cried over a low grade was because I feared my father getting angry at me and making a big deal out of it.

And, that's where I want to get with this: my mom is an ESFP, and my dad an ISFJ/ESFJ (my guess, they haven't taken the test).

My mom never understood me, and was never quite an authority figure, but more like a sister. We usually got along pretty well (except when she was misbehaving and I had to reprehend her, or when we argued over whose turn it was to use the PC), and today we're still very good friends.

My dad, on the other side, was always pushing me to "do better". He was never happy with my performance at school, and never congratulated me when I got good grades, but went mad and pouted at me if I flunked a subject (which became a yearly event since 7th grade; I always redeemed myself in the end, though). I think he still thinks of me as a mediocre one.

I also had a couple of big arguments with him when I reached adolescence and decided his word wasn't as sacred as he wanted me to believe. My mom simply buried her head in the ground during our fights, which at their worst would take a couple of months. I never respected him as a parent either, but obeyed him to avoid trouble, for the sake of my mother's emotional health.

So, to the point again: I grew up quite fearful of making people angry, and therefore in denial of what I really wanted for thinking it was "wrong". I remember being very confused and believing I had no special talent whatsoever.

Did it happen to any of you, growing up confused due to your parents not doing their duty properly? Or, if your childhood wasn't so traumatic, how do you think your parents influenced in your personal development? Does the description of the INTP child in the article fit your behavior during those early years?

 

[Ermine]

Did it happen to any of you, growing up confused due to your parents not doing their duty properly? Or, if your childhood wasn't so traumatic, how do you think your parents influenced in your personal development? Does the description of the INTP child in the article fit your behavior during those early years?

I think I have it pretty good so far as my parents go. They knew their place/duty and performed it well. Though at times, I found their personalities a bit too dominating. I have had to really work at pleasing them while maintaining my own identity. They are both Ts, so if I ever was emotionally distant as a child, it didn't ever bother them. Sometimes they find my lack of EQ a bit unsettling, but that generally wasn't an issue. My T was totally encouraged by my IxTJ mom and ISTP dad. Another issue was that even though both my parents are introverted, they are only slightly introverted, and insisted that I be more social, sometimes pushing me into going to social events I didn't want to go to. Ah well. I needed to come out of my shell a little bit. Oh, and I can really relate with this from the article:

INTPs are easily overwhelmed with too much talk, especially when two parents try to speak at the same time. One six year old INTP used to put his head under a couch cushion when he saw both parents coming into the room to talk with him. For a child who must call on energy reserves to have a forced discussion with a parent, trying to do that with two people at the same time is simply too hard. It can easily feel as if the parents are ganging up on the child, and that naturally offends their sense of fairness.

My parent's did that quite a bit. They may have had the best of intentions, but there have been times when I had to scream "One at a time!!"

And one big way that my parents (my mom specifically) influenced me is that my Si and Te are pretty well developed. After my mom kept expecting me to notice the little details she noticed and holding me accountable for them (like little bits of clutter in my room), her detail oriented thinking got incorporated into my own thought processes. She is also holding me to her standards so far as work ethic goes.

And the whole article totally fits me as an INTP, except that I didn't bribe people with affection when I was a little kid. I was just affectionate just because.

 

[Cavallier]

That was an interesting link. I did see a lot of my childhood behavior related to that examined in the article. Without getting into the nature vs. nurture discussion I think that not all adult INTPs were also INTPs as children. From other threads on this forum I gather that not everyone here was a quiet analytical child.

Did it happen to any of you, growing up confused due to your parents not doing their duty properly? Or, if your childhood wasn't so traumatic, how do you think your parents influenced in your personal development? Does the description of the INTP child in the article fit your behavior during those early years?

You describe your relationship with your mother as being more like a peer relationship than an authority figure and child relationship. I suspect there are some who would say my parents were not authoritative enough with me. They might say they were not doing their "duty" properly. I don't quite agree but they did treat me like an intelligent being who was capable of making my own decisions. They answered my questions seriously and did not blow me off in the way adults often do. They were willing to daydream with me and they encouraged me to make connections between seemingly separate things. It was kind of game my dad and I played as a kid. They encouraged inquisitiveness. I remember spending several afternoons with my father attempting to do chores blindfolded just see what it would be like.

Because of this I had certain expectations on entering school that got me into a bit of trouble. I wanted reasons for rules. I was disappointed if I was told to simply follow a rule for the sake of the rule alone. I expected certain freedoms that were not allowed children such as going to the bathroom without announcing my intentions. I was a very curious child and teachers would often grow tired of my questions. I also had inconvenient questions. I suppose these tendencies have stuck with me to this day. Does this mean I was a young budding INTP because of my parents influence? How could I possibly know?

Ruminations involving my childhood and perhaps INTP-like tendencies...

Spoiler

Lol. I was a bargainer from a young age. Not with affections but with things in general. "I'll do this if you do this then we'll both have thus and such taken care of." My mother is also a bargainer. Between the two of us we managed to bargain everything to our mutual satisfaction early on. It made life simple.

When I was very little I grew tired of dealing with people quickly. I would calmly tell people to leave me alone. When they didn't, because adults can't seem to take a serious child seriously, my father told me to spit at them. It worked but I think he did this mostly so he could tell people, "Careful. She spits." I've never going to live down that old bastard.

I think the biggest hurdle for authority figures was my complete unwillingness to follow rules unless they made sense to me. Even when I got in trouble I doggedly refused to admit fault until the adult explained to me in logical terms why what I had done was wrong. Both my parents had a strong T preference and always explained things to me so it may be that I picked up the need for explanations from them. *shrug*

This spoiler brought to you by Dormouse.

 

[Pythia]

This:

And one big way that my parents (my mom specifically) influenced me is that my Si and Te are pretty well developed. After my mom kept expecting me to notice the little details she noticed and holding me accountable for them (like little bits of clutter in my room), her detail oriented thinking got incorporated into my own thought processes. She is also holding me to her standards so far as work ethic goes.

After having said this:

Though at times, I found their personalities a bit too dominating. I have had to really work at pleasing them while maintaining my own identity.

... means her influence makes you somewhat uncomfortable?

And the whole article totally fits me as an INTP, except that I didn't bribe people with affection when I was a little kid. I was just affectionate just because.

I found the bribing a little extreme too.

 

[Pythia]

You describe your relationship with your mother as being more like a peer relationship than an authority figure and child relationship. I suspect there are some who would say my parents were not authoritative enough with me. They might say they were not doing their "duty" properly. I don't quite agree but they did treat me like an intelligent being who was capable of making my own decisions. They answered my questions seriously and did not blow me off in the way adults often do.

By "doing their duty properly" I mean helping their child to grow healthy and be the best version of themselves possible. Looks like your parents did well, as you remember your childhood fondly.

And yes, my mom is not a parent. More like, I could be her mother. But she's a very good friend.

Does this mean I was a young budding INTP because of my parents influence? How could I possibly know?

My thoughts are you wouldn't have felt so much at ease with your parents if you weren't inherently an INTP. Of course others may disagree.

Without getting into the nature vs. nurture discussion I think that not all adult INTPs were also INTPs as children. From other threads on this forum I gather that not everyone here was a quiet analytical child.

It would be interesting to hear stories of loud and obnoxious "INTP" children...

It worked but I think he did this mostly so he could tell people, "Careful. She spits."

I already like your father

 

[Crazythinker1]

I got lucky, I grew up with an INTP mother who had a very strong F preference. So not only did she see and recognise and encourage those traits that make up an INTP, she also took the time to help me develope my feeling side as well, which, I have to admit, has helped me out over the years.

 

[Cavallier]

I got lucky, I grew up with an INTP mother who had a very strong F preference. So not only did she see and recognise and encourage those traits that make up an INTP, she also took the time to help me develope my feeling side as well, which, I have to admit, has helped me out over the years.

Yes. (If somebody ever manages to talk me into having a kid...) I hope that if they show signs of being as indifferent and disconnection from people as I was that I could teach them the things I've learned over the years. Perhaps other children won't be such a mystery to them.

 

[Minuend]

^things like what, Cavallier?

I can only partly identify with the INTP child descriptions.

I wouldn't say my childhood was traumatic. But what I remember about my dad is him loosing his temper over some detail and screaming at me. Often I did not really understand what I did wrong. Like that one time I threw a fork at my brother and hit him between the eyes. My dad was furious. I thought it fair because my brother was constantly picking on me!

Because of my father, I've had problems with conflicts. I've avoided them, and I've been somewhat of a people pleaser. I've also held back a lot of my personality, removing any spontaneity. That's also because I've been a bit unintentionally blunt through my life and people have responded negatively. This worry of offending people limits my personality greatly.

Not sure what type my father is. He is a very strange man. Probably partly because he grew up in a very strict religious home. I know he's an extroverted sensor.

My mother, on the other hand, has always been very supportive, caring and very accepting towards me. She's ISFP. She's so nice she's almost' self-destructive.

Other things. I've always been very interested in animals. Watched a lot of nature documentaries. Fairness was very important.

When talking about interests, I wasn't very stereotypical INTP , I think. From a very young age, I tried to fit in, tried to connect, I suppose. So I dismissed my own interests. I actually remember, being about 17, denying taking an interest in science fiction. I also denied liking Metallica in primary school.

Actually, I still lie about my personality. Especially when it comes to my social life, which is non-existant at the moment. If people ask me about parties, I tell them I rarely go, unless I do it on a whim. Which I've never actually done, it's a blatant lie. But I can't seem to get rid of that habit of lying. I haven't much experience with being accepted for who I am, I suppose.

If this is a bit messy, it's because I'm a bit tired so the sentences float together a little

 

[Pythia]

I wouldn't say my childhood was traumatic. But what I remember about my dad is him loosing his temper over some detail and screaming at me. Often I did not really understand what I did wrong.

Well, it's not like I'm scarred for life either, but adding the word "traumatic"to the sentence seemed like a good way of adding a little of drama to it.
Also, your father seems to be very similar to mine...

Not sure what type my father is. He is a very strange man. Probably partly because he grew up in a very strict religious home. I know he's an extroverted sensor.

I too have trouble typing my dad; I can only give my best guess. My dad too grew in a very strict home, but in his case it was not religion but his own father who imposed the strictness (so I blame my grandfather for the patriarchal system my dad imposed in our home).
Don't you think your dad might be a J? Just a thought. I'm no expert at MBTI, but in my experience impatience comes with Jness.

My mother, on the other hand, has always been very supportive, caring and very accepting towards me. She's ISFP. She's so nice she's almost' self-destructive.

Same with my mom. That's why I feel the need to take care of her.


This:

Because of my father, I've had problems with conflicts. I've avoided them, and I've been somewhat of a people pleaser. I've also held back a lot of my personality, removing any spontaneity. That's also because I've been a bit unintentionally blunt through my life and people have responded negatively. This worry of offending people limits my personality greatly.

..., and this:

From a very young age, I tried to fit in, tried to connect, I suppose. So I dismissed my own interests. I actually remember, being about 17, denying taking an interest in science fiction. I also denied liking Metallica in primary school.

... are a lot like my experience on interacting with other people. Only that at 17 I was already tired of denying and pretending.
The question might sound harsh, but I have to: did you ever actually succeed at pleasing people and fitting in? I mean, were your efforts worth it or traduced in positive results?



@Crazythinker: having a parent of your same type must be very helpful, since they can recognize your similarities with them and guide you accordingly. I mean, they don't have to guess much to know what works for you.

Also, Cavallier, don't you think those things (I suppose you are referring to social skills and general rules of interaction) are learned better over experience?

 

[Ermine]

... means her influence makes you somewhat uncomfortable?

...yeah. I guess those two quotes appeared contradictory. Uncomfortable isn't quite the right word. She just didn't really consider my personality weaknesses, and it was stressful trying to communicate that to her. Of course it wouldn't fly for me to say that I just didn't see what she was talking about. Though this tension has alleviated considerably after I introduced her to the MBTI and the fact that I'm INTP. That was when I was 16. It has also improved ever since I turned 18 and went to college. I guess the time away helped me appreciate her much more, and now that I'm technically an adult, she trusts me even more than she did. It definitely helps that I only live at home about 4 months out of the year.

I'm also more comfortable with her dominant personality because she is also my boss. (She's the office manager for the family dental practice which I help out with when I'm not in school).

In general, I guess things are much better between me and her because I have less motivation to rebel against her, and she has less ability/motivation to micromanage my life.

 

[Minuend]

Don't you think your dad might be a J? Just a thought. I'm no expert at MBTI, but in my experience impatience comes with Jness.

I don't know. He's not really trying to control me, he's not as angry as he used to be. But if he's ESFJ he might get hurt when I coldly dismiss his control (or help/ meaningful advise as he'd probably see it), so he don't try.

The question might sound harsh, but I have to: did you ever actually succeed at pleasing people and fitting in? I mean, were your efforts worth it or traduced in positive results?

Yes, I did before. I had quite the group of friends. Two were close, and I had some others that I used to hang with, but we weren't close enough to stay in touch when I left for university. In uni I found people more like myself and changed drastically.

Now I've kinda lost interest in my old friends. I think it's partly because I'm reminded of what I used to be. Just thinking about all that pretending annoys me. We did have some good times together, though, it wasn't all bad.

But it's really tiring constantly having to limit oneself in that way. You feel very restricted and drained. It's not worth it in the end.

 

[KazeCraven]

Hmm, that description hardly describes me at all. I wasn't at all demanding logically-speaking, nor did I have this strong aversion to socialization: it just wasn't interesting. I was much more of a dreamer.

Are there similar articles for other types? I wonder whether a "we change types during development" model explains things better.

 

[Trebuchet]

The description was pretty spot on for my motivations and much of my behavior, but not all. Like others here, I didn't "bribe" my parents or anyone else. I was extremely lucky to be raised by an INTP and INFP (I think) and they understood me pretty well and gave me my space. They educated themselves on child development and worked hard to get me safely to adulthood.

I have no idea if my daughter is an INTP, or maybe an INTJ like her daddy, but she kind of shows the signs of it. She is a very friendly introvert, and popular with other kids, because we've given her logical reasons to be good at socializing. As long as I am protective of her downtime she does great.

Cavallier mentioned the possibility of guiding children through the pitfalls that the parent experienced. While it is true that nothing teaches like experience, it is nice to be able to explain the experience in terms that make sense.

For example, my daughter "Kelly" wasn't able to invite her whole class to her 6th birthday party. One of her classmates, "Pam" (an extravert with a strong sense of entitlement), tried to make her feel guilty and manipulate her into giving an invitation. This is pretty much Pam's SOP when she doesn't get her way. It didn't work, of course, since it wasn't up to my daughter, but it was nice to be able to talk afterward about what was going on. Kelly understood Pam's disappointment, but not why she was complaining to Kelly about it or blaming her.

I explained that Pam was trying to make her feel like she did something wrong, hoping she could get her way. It wasn't nice, but maybe we could forgive a disappointed 6-year-old. I also mentioned that some people spend more than they can afford to invite everyone, and try to make everyone happy. But in reality you can't make everyone happy, so we weren't going to worry about it. Pam will recover.

Kelly always seems much more confident when other people's weird behavior makes sense. How she decides to handle such things in the future will be up to her. I can't choose her path or fix her problems. Only experience will show her what works. But it does help if she at least knows what the problems and choices are.

 

[LAM]

Hmm. I was getting physically bullied everyday in day care when I was 2 (every day i had new bruises.) I had my toys stolen as well . So no, I don't consider my childhood normal, nor do I consider it in any way good outside of my parents and grandparents. Day-care, preschool and 1st year primary were just disgusting and horrible experiences. I wonder to this day how things would have been if it was different, because I really think I would have been a really nice kid without that. I still am now, but its been hidden ever since in depth of aggressiveness and a hell of a lot of sarcasm (I am quite a lot better nowadays, but I remember being in a large number of fights. Also I used to get an insane rage once a year as a kid.) Thankfully I don't remember anything more than a general sense of crushing loneliness and hurtfulness.
I had good parents, but at the time I was two my dad was trying to setup a new life for us in Belgium and my mother was working all the time. Afterwards my parents still didn't have the time to do it, and I for some reason always hid it.

So yeah, my development was pretty much gimped.

 

[Red Devil]

Hmm, I can relate to a lot of things mentioned in the article. Except the risk-taking and adventurous parts I suppose. I was always rather cautious and.. 'meek', if that's the right word. Also I never participated much in sports partly because I was rather frail as a child.


My childhood, as far as I remember, was mostly okay-ish. The one thought I remember having frequently was of having been misunderstood by nearly everyone and worrying if it'd be the same when I grew older. Being looked at as arrogant or eccentric by some people in school, being thought of as unintelligent or ignorant by some teachers, as a slightly abnormal child by parents and others etc.

Though I was left alone most of the times, I remember being forced to be more social, talk more, participate/attend social activities and gatherings by my parents quite a few times. Disconcerting. Though most of the times they didn't make much of a fuss about it. Also, I come from a slightly orthodox and perhaps a reserved family.. So I think my parents (No expert at MBTI but I'm sure my mom is an SJ.. and dad, no clue) WERE quite bothered about certain things, like how I had such few friends, how I was always so withdrawn and quiet but they didn't do anything about it as they preferred to pretend that I would turn out alright or something I guess. My emotional unresponsiveness used to bother them the most I guess. They often tried to talk about it, both at once which resulted in me becoming even more unresponsive and withdrawn.

Another thing. Since my mother is an SJ, naturally all the last minute exam preparations, late submissions of assignments, my messy room, apathy, laziness and a general lack of discipline and order used to bother her a LOT. It still bothers her infact. We used to have/still have frequent arguments about it. The arguments mostly involve her reprimanding me and me saying absolutely nothing. And that bothers her as well. SJs. :shakes head:

Also, I don't remember being encouraged to talk about what I felt, about my interests and opinions. Which is perhaps why I've never quite learned to express myself properly. I'm rather fearful of new people thus and have a very hard time connecting with them.

ok, I'm rambling now. So to conclude, I don't know if they did their 'duty' properly or not as I wish they'd done certain things differently and been more understanding and stuff but I'm just glad sometimes that they didn't force me to do things I didn't want to do and left me by myself most of the times.

 

[Red Devil]

Yikes. That was long. And ramble-y. Sorry.

 

[rozenbottel]

Personally, I can relate to almost everything written in the article. Well, pre-school was a nightmare ( I thought other children were stupid and I was glad when it rained, so I wasn't forced to play with them outdoors), primary was 'so-so', I was lucky because I got an amazing teacher who understood my needs (not that I'm special or something hey). I often spaced out in my classes and spent many afternoons reading sci fi, encyclopedias, comic books, or exploring my neighborhood with my bike. I was extremely curious; I loved realizing how things worked and everything I saw I had to touch it with my hands (this caused me a few problems with shop owners). Then I had this difficult period when I was 13 (you can say it was my dark age); I felt my world was leagues apart from people of my age and I often felt confused. I didn’t understand how I could offend someone by telling them what I thought, I was giving them my opinion whether they liked it or not and they should accept that. (Oh and the low self esteem problem, I was too skinny and had a horrible hair cut that was the subject of several jokes.)

Plus after all these years my parents still don’t get me at all, I dare say. I always had strange interests and forbidding me to do something without valid reasons it’s absolutely the worst they could do. But I did it all the same. You can guess then that I frequently find myself suffocated by my parents who insist in controlling every bits of my life, because I don’t tell them what I’ve been doing. It really drives them mad aha (yes sometimes I take pleasure annoying them). In addiction my social behavior was (and still is) somewhat …unconventional; my parents always put pressure on me in social meetings. For instance I’m being introduced to a distant cousin and I’m supposed to act all smiley and happy like I’ve known him for ages. That’s why I am often labeled ‘cold and apathetic’ but hey, I can live with that.
I’m sorry if this text is full of stupid grammar errors; my English is a bit rusty. I promise I’ll polish it.

 

[lone_dreamer]

I found a lot of what the link said was true for the most part but I wasn't expecting it to portray my past 100% accurately. Like others i wasn't the most daring of children but i had my moments Looking back I can say that I wasn't really me most of the time. I kept my head down and became a simple sheep that followed the other sheep. However i did have my personal necessities such as a small group of friends, sources to knowledge, reclusive thinking spot, yadda, yadda. I guess I was only an INTP in the head kinda.

 

[Adamastor]

Even though there a few differences, your story is pretty similar to mine.

I always got the impression that I was isolated from my colleagues, I was an uber perfectionist and feared making mistakes because I believed that I would be "happy" if there were no points to people tackle on, in spite of this being inherently quite stressful (it is the same as being paranoid, really) I've never got problems like depressions or something like that, mostly because I was always REALLY self-centered.

The family plays a really important when we are talking about being self-centered, mostly because your social environment can't me much different from this simple sum: family (your household) + school (your colleagues) + friends (hmmm, special colleagues most of the time, not only restricted to school though). And being self-centered, is the same as ignoring others, your family, your friends, other human beings in general and to do this, to put your self in a isolated position from other, is not an easy task.
​

Since I've always got the feeling of isolation, it probably is not surprising to say that I didn't have many friends and even if there were people who someone else might call friends, at this point I have never opened myself to anyone, my world was basically my head, me with myself and my physical world was school+my house and sometimes other places where I focused on practiced sports, etc...

In this situation, my father (I've got no mom, though I got an step-mother and an aunt, who are something like a mother to me...), my family and I have always had a tacit agreement: I would be responsible for my actions, I would have no problems at school, thus I deserved "freedom"; and things proceeded like that, they always had.

I remember that before I was five I was really egotistical, possessive, misbehaved child.

The father figure is interesting at this point, because even though he never spanked really badly, he only disciplined me and put in me some common society's values, I was really afraid of him, of his rash voice, I feared my weak condition (I always fear weakness, my weakness) whenever I faced him.

This fear, was probably one of the main reasons to avoid conflict, to resignate, to shut myself in my thoughts, to become analytical and being able to do things people wanted me to, so they would be pleased with me and leave me alone.

Under this conditions it is not surprising that I developed my logic, my rethoric and my observing nature of my surroundings, all of these were tools that I used and abused for long years, to maintain my condition of "freedom".
______________


I dunno if I succeeded in being impartial... Anyway, looking from far way this (my life) might look something dull and boring (without human contact and all), but I was quite happy actually: I got no problems and I could spend my free time doing things I like which were mostly playing games and that is good! Games are entertaining products made because there are people who are willingly to spend time with them.

(...) whizzing through the most challenging video games(...)
INTPs are also at home with a computer's many creative possibilities and the unlimited opportunities to dabble with and explore whatever piques their interests. Given their high need for time alone and their penchant for 'noodling' things around inside their heads, it's no wonder that most or all of the favorite activities of INTPs are fairly intellectual and usually pretty solitary and internal.

I didn't see it before, this article has some pretty accurate stuff O.O
​

Well this was mostly my middle school life, before I was nothing more than a curious child who was disappointed with the world, with the adults, because people didn't care to answer my questions, so, as you can see, I resigned myself and shut the doors to the outside world.
("Ah... There is nothing worth out there.")

That conception started to change in highschool, I started to to wonder about people, about the others, and the most important thing was that I started to wonder about my life trajectory. It may be a thing from teenagers, but I gotta a need for challenges, to struggle for higher things (at least in theory), I was somewhat bored with how familiar, how unchanging things were, so I decided to try to chance.

And here I am now, this past year I changed a lot I am trying to open myself to some people, I convinced myself to believe that there were interesting people out there, in fact a great deal of people were interesting, but they put a facade that was not, I convinced myself that I was "deceived", that a was naive, thus it was time for a change, time to open my eyes.

Easier to say, than it is to do, but the challenge is there and it quite cool to meet, for example, some INTPs in my own classroom.