The Chad

[Cognisant]

So I'm talking to some guy about laptop batteries, one thing leads to another and he's telling me about the virtues of living on a boat. At face value it sounds kooky but particularly here in Brisbane it makes a lot of sense, as the nation's fastest growing city housing is really expensive, the cost of electricity has skyrocketed, and here his is living in the heart of the CBD (within the free wifi zone of the botanical gardens no less) yet paying only the annual maintenance cost of his boat.

I live in the CBD too, I live rather well in fact, but only because I'm boarding at home (mooching I confess) which can't last forever, heck I could be out on the street next week (my mother has serious health issues) so I desperately need a plan B, this seems perfect. There are suitable motorsail boats that I could buy right now such as this charming little thing which would only set me back about $40000 which appears fairly well set up.

That's a pretty crap house you may be thinking, well yeah, but with $100,000 I could by a single room apartment just outside the CBD, then pay rates, body-corporate, amenities (water, electricity) and though it may be nicer, I'd be getting about as much floorspace, I won't be able to take my apartment up to the tropics or overseas with me on holidays and for the same price I could get a boat like this.

Oh hell yes, sure the dunny's small but who cares, that's not the point, a marble bathroom with a solid gold Japanese toilet doesn't really do much to improve one's quality of life, the point is that if I can live cheaply on a boat then I don't need to be earning decent money to be making decent money and unlike with an apartment or house a boat gives me the freedom to load up my larder with canned food, fill up my gas tanks, and fuck off into the tropics for months on end.

I find that really appealing.

The only disadvantage I see is that, well, it's pathetic but the guy did confess to me that people look down on boaties like him as though they were homeless, and I suspect at face value many women would snub someone who invites them back to their boat, I mean everyone knows boats are cheaper than houses so living on a boat can be seen as a poor man's way of playing rich, also, The Chad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741A51ByU2o&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[A22]

Coming home drunk could be a problem.

 

[The Gopher]

Boats are awesome.... Honestly if you get one I would be on board. *giggles* However does this count any training, ongoing costs, etc... sounds wonderful though. It’s a plan that we had in the skype chat to buy an old submarine if one of use ever became a millionaire and just go around in that.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Spoiler

So I'm talking to some guy about laptop batteries, one thing leads to another and he's telling me about the virtues of living on a boat. At face value it sounds kooky but particularly here in Brisbane it makes a lot of sense, as the nation's fastest growing city housing is really expensive, the cost of electricity has skyrocketed, and here his is living in the heart of the CBD (within the free wifi zone of the botanical gardens no less) yet paying only the annual maintenance cost of his boat.

I live in the CBD too, I live rather well in fact, but only because I'm boarding at home (mooching I confess) which can't last forever, heck I could be out on the street next week (my mother has serious health issues) so I desperately need a plan B, this seems perfect. There are suitable motorsail boats that I could buy right now such as this charming little thing which would only set me back about $40000 which appears fairly well set up.

That's a pretty crap house you may be thinking, well yeah, but with $100,000 I could by a single room apartment just outside the CBD, then pay rates, body-corporate, amenities (water, electricity) and though it may be nicer, I'd be getting about as much floorspace, I won't be able to take my apartment up to the tropics or overseas with me on holidays and for the same price I could get a boat like this.

Oh hell yes, sure the dunny's small but who cares, that's not the point, a marble bathroom with a solid gold Japanese toilet doesn't really do much to improve one's quality of life, the point is that if I can live cheaply on a boat then I don't need to be earning decent money to be making decent money and unlike with an apartment or house a boat gives me the freedom to load up my larder with canned food, fill up my gas tanks, and fuck off into the tropics for months on end.

I find that really appealing.

The only disadvantage I see is that, well, it's pathetic but the guy did confess to me that people look down on boaties like him as though they were homeless, and I suspect at face value many women would snub someone who invites them back to their boat, I mean everyone knows boats are cheaper than houses so living on a boat can be seen as a poor man's way of playing rich, also, The Chad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741A51ByU2o&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Poor Chad...

How would the utilities work?

How familiar are you with boating?

If all other things were equal, how much would you prefer the apartment to the boat?

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Boats are awesome.... Honestly if you get one I would be on board. *giggles* However does this count any training, ongoing costs, etc... sounds wonderful though. It’s a plan that we had in the skype chat to buy an old submarine if one of use ever became a millionaire and just go around in that.

With the proper modifications, INTP forum could become a nuclear superpower.

 

[SMO]

Go for the boat, if someone calls you a "boatie" (that's funny) correct them and tell them you are an "artist" or you are working on your novel, this will quiet them down.
You will undoubtedly have great adventures with a boat that you can relish later. You also will possess a hard asset, I am not familiar with boats and how/if they retain value so make sure you know.
The problems I see are that with all the commerce and activity there would probably be a lot of men at work around your boat. People wandering up and down the dock, knocking on your door, you will be thinking "Who can it be now?" but that would just be business as usual. In case of storms, you better run, you better take cover.

 

[Cognisant]

How would the utilities work?

Solar/wind/wave power can be used to generate electricity a lost for free, with that it's simple to use electrolysis to distill water (or create hydrogen as an alternate fuel, which can be stored safely it seems) then with electricity and water you can do cooking, hot showers, lighting, etc.

Waste disposal in terms of trash will require taking it to a bin on land, which is only slightly inconvenient as you'll be returning there anyway, and human waste disposal has been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years, also y'know it's not like fish don't poop in the sea, but if you're upriver you may want to head out into the bay once a week or so to dump the tanks because flushing them near where people can smell it is kind of rude.

How familiar are you with boating?

Not personally, but my father was in the navy (hated it) and is currently managing the dredging operation at Gladstone, my grandfather was in the merchant navy and also spent some time with the regular navy putting up lighthouses around Australia, and last but not least my "uncle" (my father's best friend since ever) has... well he's action man, he's done everything, at the moment I believe he's running a business that manages the divers who do inspections, which is one of the many things he used to do.

My surname "Pitcher" is derived from "pitch" the tar like substance used to seal up the planking of wooden ships so that they'd be watertight from above (rain) and below, so though there's no direct proof of it, the natural assumption is that one of my ancestors got his surname doing that as a boy on an English sailing ship.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

the point is that if I can live cheaply on a boat then I don't need to be earning decent money to be making decent money and unlike with an apartment or house a boat gives me the freedom to load up my larder with canned food, fill up my gas tanks, and fuck off into the tropics for months on end.

I find that really appealing.

Could be pretty cool if you're okay with shorelife, and you might be limited in job availability living near the sea and all. Though you could always take up commercial fishing, even as an entrepreneur.

and I suspect at face value many women would snub someone who invites them back to their boat

I thought women dug sailors...

The problems I see are that with all the commerce and activity there would probably be a lot of men at work around your boat. People wandering up and down the dock, knocking on your door, you will be thinking "Who can it be now?" but that would just be business as usual. In case of storms, you better run, you better take cover.

 

[Cognisant]

The problems I see are that with all the commerce and activity there would probably be a lot of men at work around your boat. People wandering up and down the dock, knocking on your door, you will be thinking "Who can it be now?" but that would just be business as usual. In case of storms, you better run, you better take cover.

Oh no, no docks, it's cheaper to lay anchor in a river, upon which most cities are built, and although I don't know how other countries are about it but here in Brisbane the law is that you can't stay in the same place for more than a month or so, but you only need to move a kilometre and people have been going back and forth around the bend so often that apparently the authorities don't even bother keeping track anymore, some boats haven't moved for years.

I think as long as you don't block river traffic or upset the city council, nobody cares, which is ironic given there's people living almost for free within yelling distance of those paying $500+ a week for much the same location, furthermore when the floods came most of the boats went out with it (there was one or two who stayed anchored, y'know the village idiots) then when the floods were over they came straight back in, that is after the pontoons of the riverside homeowners all floated out to sea, with expensive fishing and power boats still on them.

 

[Solitaire U.]

Some questions:

Both of those links were to sailboats. Do you know how to sail? Is it possible for one person to sail the type of boat you have in mind?

You're going to need the services of a private dock. What kind of monthly rent are you looking at?

Are you mechanically inclined, or do you intend to farm out repairs maintenance, servicing, and upkeep to others?

How big are the propane tanks, and how do you go about filling them? Also, what's the going rate for propane?

Considering the harsh environments a boat is 'waterlocked; into by default, there seems to be a rather high potential risk of partial or total loss. Is insurance available? Prices?

I understand that boats that spend the majority of their time moored/docked need to be dry-docked to have the barnacles scraped off their hulls at least every six months. What are the logistics and costs of this?

Not trying to rain on your parade or anything...I invested heavily and lived in a 32' motorhome for 2 years under the same assumptions (lower costs, freedom, mobility, etc.). It didn't exactly turn out as I envisioned, mostly due to higher than expected costs/occurrences of some of the things above. And that was just a motorhome. A boat seems likely to become a significantly greater hassle. I don't regret doing it, but given the opportunity I wouldn't do it again.

So check those things above out first. That way, if you do decide to 'take the plunge' (ouch, really bad pun there), you'll have a realistic idea of what to expect.

Good luck!

 

[Cognisant]

Could be pretty cool if you're okay with shorelife, and you might be limited in job availability living near the sea and all. Though you could always take up commercial fishing, even as an entrepreneur.

A lot of cities are built around ports or rivers with public docks of some sort or another, a single pontoon is all you really need, then you're in the CBD, probably within walking distance of your job or you can invest in a bicycle, then of course there's public transport.

I don't think commercial fishing would be reliable, but y'know if you have a freezer (or fish tank) on board there's no reason you couldn't supplement your groceries.

 

[Cognisant]

Both of those links were to sailboats. Do you know how to sail? Is it possible for one person to sail the type of boat you have in mind?

I can learn. It's entirely possible to automate a sailing ship, I've seen that done, but I think actually packing up the sail and unfurling still requires direct intervention.

You're going to need the services of a private dock. What kind of monthly rent are you looking at?

Honestly I'm still looking into it.

Are you mechanically inclined, or do you intend to farm out repairs maintenance, servicing, and upkeep to others?

Seriously, you have to ask that?

How big are the propane tanks, and how do you go about filling them? Also, what's the going rate for propane?

It's cheap, many service stations have propane tanks than you can buy and return so after the first tank you're just paying for the propane.

Considering the harsh environments a boat is 'waterlocked; into by default, there seems to be a rather high potential risk of partial or total loss. Is insurance available? Prices?

Everything needs insurance these days, it's the scam of the decade.

I understand that boats that spend the majority of their time moored/docked need to be dry-docked to have the barnacles scraped off their hulls at least every six months. What are the logistics and costs of this?

The guy I talked to only does this once a year and coats his boats hull in ablative paint (assumedly biodegradable) specifically to mitigate this, and it isn't so bad in relatively fresh water; I have my own ideas about using an ultrasound emitter bot to clean my hull while it's still in the water and cathodic protection, which I'm still researching.

Not trying to rain on your parade or anything...I invested heavily and lived in a 32' motorhome for 2 years under the same assumptions (lower costs, freedom, mobility, etc.). It didn't exactly turn out as I envisioned, mostly due to higher than expected costs/occurrences of some of the things above. And that was just a motorhome. A boat seems likely to become a significantly greater hassle. I don't regret doing it, but given the opportunity I wouldn't do it again.

You've been very helpful.
I don't expect it to be all smooth sailing

 

[Melkor]

Would only be cool if you modified said boat and installed a Neurotic AI.

Also. Can you give Lor free rides to visit me and vice versa without endangering our lives?
If so, let me know.

(Is it sad that I clicked this thread hoping it'd be about that one scene in Charlie's angels?)

 

[Cognisant]

Would only be cool if you modified said boat and installed a Neurotic AI.

The AI had already occurred to me, but neurotic is a nice touch
But why stop there?

Also. Can you give Lor free rides to visit me and vice versa without endangering our lives?

Intentionally or not?

 

[Dr. Freeman]

The AI had already occurred to me, but neurotic is a nice touch
But why stop there?

Intentionally or not?

I would visit to see that.

 

[Luzian]

I have the same goals, and I've had them for a couple years, learning all about sailboats and the liveaboard lifestyle.

That's a pretty crap house you may be thinking, well yeah, but with $100,000 I could by a single room apartment just outside the CBD, then pay rates, body-corporate, amenities (water, electricity) and though it may be nicer, I'd be getting about as much floorspace, I won't be able to take my apartment up to the tropics or overseas with me on holidays and for the same price I could get a boat like this.

You can get a boat for much cheaper than that. Though if you're planning on sailing across an ocean, you're going to need a boat built for it, which will cost you.

Realize that water and electricity isn't free even on a boat, though you can get enough solar panels and/or a wind generator to power your boat's electronics, though nothing will compete with the amount of power available via an electric company powering your typical house. Because of this, sailors are very conscious of electrical load of all the electronics on their boats.

If you want to live with similar amenities you are used to, your best bet is to live in a marina where water, electricity, and other services are provided at a cost typically less than your cheapest apartment. Yes, you will still be paying money even after you buy the boat, but not much different than you would if you bought a house. Your utilities will be vastly cheaper. If you live where you need heat in the winter, you could install a propane heater that's specifically designed for boats, and it will cost you a small fraction (not including the actual heater) of what you'd pay for gas in a house.

One thing you have to seriously think about is living space. You have to realize how much space is actually valued. Most of us were convinced on the idea that the more space you have in a house, the better. And while this is true to some extent, it also has major drawbacks in terms of maintenance. We think that our massive homes are the foundation of living the dream and being successful when in reality we don't even own these houses that in the end, we couldn't afford. On a boat, space is a luxury, but the most important thing to take into account is how useful your space actually is. It's amazing how small a place can feel when it has a lot of wasted space. The ocean is your backyard.. well, anywhere you set your anchor will be your home, and life is not restricted to just your boat. I plan to enjoy every city I visit, and when I get bored, I will just set sail to somewhere else.

The only disadvantage I see is that, well, it's pathetic but the guy did confess to me that people look down on boaties like him as though they were homeless, and I suspect at face value many women would snub someone who invites them back to their boat, I mean everyone knows boats are cheaper than houses so living on a boat can be seen as a poor man's way of playing rich, also, The Chad.

The good thing about people is that their opinions and views are malleable. If you feel good about your lifestyle, people will be convinced that it is a valid lifestyle. It really is a self-fulfilling prophecy to worry about people's opinions, and concern yourself with the mere possibility that you are less than them. The first thing you have to realize is that first impressions should not concern you because there is a huge difference between the people in your life, and the people who just pass by. Would you seriously want to associate yourself with someone who is more concerned about what you have than they are concerned with who you are? If for a second you compare yourself to the supposed ideal, you are essentially saying that your possessions and status are worth more than you are. That says a lot, and most people will hear it being said.

 

[Cognisant]

It really is a self-fulfilling prophecy to worry about people's opinions, and concern yourself with the mere possibility that you are less than them.

Very good point.

 

[EditorOne]

"paying only the annual maintenance cost of his boat."

There is a world of pain within those few words.

Boats are constantly deteriorating, much more so than land structures and incomparably so compared to an apartment within a larger building. More of the things that happen to a boat are more compelling in terms of needing repair; a leaking roof in a house, for instance, requires easy mitigation and actual repair can be put off. Not so a crack in a hull, obviously. The marine environment, especially in salt water, screws up electronics rather rapidly and buying electronics designed to withstand the environment means a lot more money. Hulls are constantly fouling with weed, motors get all kinds of trouble, sails only last so long before they need to be replaced (and that's a biggie).

Practical suggestion: Walk around (or row around) a bit and chat up various boat owners and see what they're spending to stay afloat.

Did I mention the increased vulnerability to storm damage?

I used to own boats, none on the scale you're considering but each requiring fairly constant attention to keep them safe and servicable. You'd better like boat maintenance, you'll be spending some time doing it.

I will own a boat again, and might even live in it, but I think I'd go for a retired working boat like a small trawler. Sandblast the fish smell out of the hold and modify.