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Suicide

loveofreason

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As INTPs are we particularly prone to suicidal ideation? What goes on in our minds that we reach this hopeless state?

I've been there, in a suicidal state that is, and I notice I'm not the only one here to experience it. What is the process that leads us here?
 

Agapooka

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Whenever I reach such a state, I am glad that I am not an INTJ, as my rationale tends to be "I really wouldn't mind to die right now, but I couldn't be bothered to take such matters in my own hands."
 

Ermine

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I certainly have my bouts of depression, but I never want to end my life because I'm always thinking of the possibilities. I wouldn't ever want to cut that short.

As for the reasons why we INTPs get into this state, at least for me, it starts whenever I don't make any progress, mentally or otherwise, or when I keep going around in circles, mentally. Sometimes it's the realization that I'm alone. While that usually doesn't bother me at all, it sometimes gets me depressed knowing how self-alienated I can be sometimes. Essentially it happens when I get trapped inside my own head too long.
 
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i have such an intense fear of death that i would never end my own life- the very thought of taking my last breath instills absolute terror......existing no more....finitude....nothingness.........horror of horrors
 

Zaihtam

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I dont fear death at all. I look forward to it, since I think that there is a better life after. But while I am here I can and will try to make the best of it. I want to experice everything, and even though I am a big coward, I want to try taking more chances in the future. This is a new path for me. I am full of theories, but i have come to that no theory will ever match actual events by 100 %, so why not practise your theories, instead of wondering whether they will work or not? Ask that girl out on a date! Climb on top of that mountain! Archieve your goals! It is much better to die knowing that you have lived!
 

Agapooka

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I certainly have my bouts of depression, but I never want to end my life because I'm always thinking of the possibilities. I wouldn't ever want to cut that short.

As for the reasons why we INTPs get into this state, at least for me, it starts whenever I don't make any progress, mentally or otherwise, or when I keep going around in circles, mentally. Sometimes it's the realization that I'm alone. While that usually doesn't bother me at all, it sometimes gets me depressed knowing how self-alienated I can be sometimes. Essentially it happens when I get trapped inside my own head too long.

Ah yes. It is almost if not the same with me, when it comes to the reasons for the depression. I'd like to add, or clarify, that sometimes it can simply be the realisation that what I am doing now is futile and it is not what I wish to be doing, yet, I apparently have "no choice".

Of course, I hate to think that I've committed time to something, yet gotten nothing out of it, so I'm waiting till I graduate from college this May before I explore the world. *is going to Germany for a year* :cool:
 

hedgehogbe

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There are so many reasons why I get it, but let me try and list a few...

When I've been switching interests too fast or get exhausted or frustrated going after one, it sets in pretty fast... Realizing that I can never satisfy my curiosity or can never get close to how far others have gone in things such as philosophy . That can be pretty depressing.

Futility is a big one as well.

My mind isn't working the best at the moment, because I'm mostly focusing on games of go, but if I can illuminate more reasons, I will post them.
 

Zero

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I thought about suicide quite often, but I've never tried to do anything. I thought thinking of suicide when I was young was normal. I almost know exactly how I would go about it. For me the most depressing thing is to realize how rotten and backwards the world is, how slow it is to change and how impossible it is to make people come to clearer understandings. I became hopeless about the world and during a time when I felt very weird and isolated. I often feel I can't contribute to a world that doesn't want contributions. I don't even feel like this day and age makes sense. Nothing seems to when I think about it too much. To me I thought of suicide as my liberation and my choice. I will die anyway and I could spend years dying. I don't feel sad about this idea anymore. I think death requires a certain mindset and planning though. I won't (continue to) live a frustrating, pointless existence. If words fall on deaf ears and people are simply pawns and mindless there's no point in saying/doing anything.

I don't believe in an afterlife, well at least not firmly. I don't fear death. It's simply an understanding of: "If no one will hear me, then I will stop talking."
 
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"If no one will hear me, then I will stop talking."

in contrast, my thinking is "if no one will hear me.... their loss"......i still will continue to voice my opinions just in case some minute fragment of their brain starts functioning again:D

can't change the world if you're dead
 

Ermine

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Yeah, I've found that aside from being accomplished, being mildly defiant about my views with a "their loss" or "I'll prove them wrong" attitude is the best way to keep up my self esteem.
 

Cabbo Pearimo

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I have, as is pretty much a given in today's minorities, thought about it, breifly, and without any real passion. I figure that life itself isn't really that big a deal, so why bother finishing it off? Besides, there's always something good waiting to happen, regardless of the mass amounts of bad (good and bad in the happy/sad sense).
 

Melkor

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There is nothing more valuable than human life, save for several humans lives.
Therefore I do not think it is sensible at all to commit suicde, and find it nearly impossible to contemplate how anyone could attempt it.
 

Cabbo Pearimo

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lives.


Becasue they listen to My Chemical Romance.
 

Melkor

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Aha, the bane of all evil.
 

Melkor

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Exactly what i meant.


42!ARGGGGGGGGGGHHHH!
 

Radioactive_Springtime

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panic at the disco?, hawthorne heights, good charlotte, my chemical romance, fall out boy, simple plan

all the bands that took the pop punk sound of the 90s and managed to make it even more annoying.

though personally, hawthorne heights beats all because not only is it emo, its some of the blandest music ever. I think calling it music is insulting to even the other bands i have listed.

and Trivium.

Anything new for the most part.

thinking about suicide for me would either be a short term feeling that would go away after a slept on it, or something I could never actually go through with. Not that I haven't tried.
 

Vrecknidj

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I have seen no studies on any association between type and likelihood to attempt or succeed at suicide. That said, I would imagine that in certain cultures, there would be some types that would find life more challenging than in others. And, in our culture, which is dominated by Extroverted Sensates, I would imagine that any of the IN__ types would find life to be more of a challenge than many of their peers.

So, there might be a slight bump in that regard, but otherwise I would be surprised to find a statistically significant shift based on type. In other words, if 75% of the population is ES__, then I'd expect about 75% of attempts to come from people who are ES__.


Dave
 

EditorOne

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"I have seen no studies on any association between type and likelihood to attempt or succeed at suicide.z'

ditto.

And while NT might seem to be in a "more challenged" category, the hugely mitigating counterweight to the world of braying extroverts is that it's all just so ... interesting. I mean, really, I just want to live forever, or at least as long as possible, just to see how it all turns out.

When I was much younger I had to talk a friend out of suicide. That was part of my pitch: If you're not around you don't get to see the next interesting thing that's sure to happen. That and a joke got him through the night and things looked different the next day.
 

alierae

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Although the sound of those horrible "bands" listed above makes me want to commit suicide, I don't believe that music pushes people to do stupid things. If it does, there is obviously some other kind of mental disorder that put them in the vulnerable state they were in. Blaming people's stupid actions on things like music or video games is blasphemy, maybe people should blame their parents or other people in their lives.

On the other hand, I think that suicidal thoughts are normal, to an extent, because everyone gets overwhelmed at some point in their life and just thinks, "I wish this would end." Suicide just seems to be the easiest way out in a difficult situation. However, if someone is obsessing on their thoughts of suicide I would suggest talking to someone even if it is just a trustable friend.
 

Ermine

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Although the sound of those horrible "bands" listed above makes me want to commit suicide, I don't believe that music pushes people to do stupid things. If it does, there is obviously some other kind of mental disorder that put them in the vulnerable state they were in. Blaming people's stupid actions on things like music or video games is blasphemy, maybe people should blame their parents or other people in their lives.

On the other hand, I think that suicidal thoughts are normal, to an extent, because everyone gets overwhelmed at some point in their life and just thinks, "I wish this would end." Suicide just seems to be the easiest way out in a difficult situation. However, if someone is obsessing on their thoughts of suicide I would suggest talking to someone even if it is just a trustable friend.

Can't say that anyone implied that music of any kind influences suicide. Must say, I got quite a laugh out of that concept when I first heard about the Judas Priest lawsuit along those lines. Same thing with Ozzy Osbourne. It's almost as good as hearing about lawsuits after someone misuses a common household object.

Stupid lawsuits make me angry and amused at the same time.
 

Zero

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I wish I didn't have hesitation about dying... The fact I do probably means I won't end my life. All the same, I've numbered my days, maybe just for the hell of it. Normally people who are going to commit suicide have a history with depression, illness perhaps or something major has changed in their life: Losing a job, a loved one...

In my understanding there are already a lot of people out there who think like I do. Who probably think better than I do and have more will than I do. Somebody is going to live the dream, but it won't be.

Since I'm usually indifferent to people I guess I kind of appear to have self-confidence, but I suppose I don't really have so much. I don't really care about what people think about what I wear and all that, but I usually dress nicely and I don't bother people...

I might be sentimental about myself, but in the end I'm a leech. I think my best contribution to humanity might be if I were to die in a swamp and become part of the fossil record. Heheheh. Or maybe becoming a cadaver or whatnot.
 
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If you're not around you don't get to see the next interesting thing that's sure to happen.


good point- "life is like a box of chocolates" , you might miss out on the best thing that would have ever happened to you.
it has probably entered everyone's mind at some time or another, if only fleetingly. suicide can be a selfish thing, maybe meant to punish the living for their lack of understanding- sometimes an irrational act of desperation.
many people don't understand me at all- that's their problem, not going to intentionally die because of what somebody else thinks or because i don't fit in. i can accept being weird...or more pc...."normalcy challenged".
may i never be that irrational and/or selfish......going to listen to radiohead's "creep" now.....
 

Wisp

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I have such an intense fear of dying, I would never end myself. I've thought about withdrawing all contact from those I know though...
 

Ermine

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It would be nearly impossible for me to hurt/kill myself. Even watching a nurse give me a shot creeps me out, just the fact that my body is being penetrated by a sharp object.
 

Aphasia

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I've certainly thought of suicide during bouts of depression, but thinking about how many people would be happy/ profit at/ from my death (pessimists, people who hate my generation, people who use me as an example of why suicide is always the wrong thing to do, etc.) gets me angry enough to snap out of it. As an added bonus, I stop being depressed :P.

On a somewhat unrelated note: the death clock
Sadists beware! Pessimists too, although not so much.
 

CowSavior

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It's funny when people fail at suicide.
I'm like: "how can you be such a loser that you can't even kill yourself???
I mean, really. You suck at both life AND death!"

I think suicidal people are pathetic.
I'venever even considered suicide.
It'sjust retarded.
 

alierae

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Well, Zakai, I think your response was very immature in the fact that you didn't consider why people might want to commit suicide. Although it is a horrible thing to think it, suicide is brought on by psychological problems. These problems can come from a variety of things ranging from a bad childhood to being harassed as a teenager. Some people have stronger minds than others. If someone goes through a traumatizing event and can't handle it, suicide seems like the easiest way out...
 

Olba

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It's funny when people fail at suicide.
I'm like: "how can you be such a loser that you can't even kill yourself???
I mean, really. You suck at both life AND death!"

That, my dear, would be because the most common ways of suicide are ones you can quit in the middle. For example, the most common way of suicide, alcohol and medicine, is something pretty much every household has. But the problem comes from the fact that it needs to be consumed.

Then of course there are stuff like hanging. Well, hanging isn't as common as you would think, as it requires quite a lot of preparation and has a high probability of failure if the preparations aren't good.

Same applies to guns. Shooting yourself would usually bring up thoughts of, for example, your head scattered all over the floor. Which surely wouldn't be a pretty sight, no matter how you think about it.

However, there are a few ways where, once the act starts, it's a 99% chance of death. For example, jumping off a bridge to get crushed or ran over by a train. At the very least, you end up in hospital for a pretty darn long time or the rest of your life.

I think suicidal people are pathetic.
I'venever even considered suicide.
It'sjust retarded


From what I can see, you seem biased. First you say suicidal people are stupid, then you say you've never considered it. The first and most obvious conclusion from here is that you're extremely ignorant and arrogant. Then you go and claim that suicidal thoughts are somehow in correlation to lack of mental development, which is a false claim. By now, you're credibility is already pretty much zero. Now, since I already said that you're ignorant and arrogant, I doubt I need to take a single step to point out that you should rather just keep quiet.

As for me answering the whole deal of suicide, I would rather not say anything. Why not, you may ask. Well, I consider my own opinion to be highly biased and contradictory on this topic due to various reasons.

However, I can go on to say that I've never "considered" suicide. It's quite simply, for me. The only thing I can think of being wrong in my life is what seems like endless boredom. Other than that, my life is fine. So my current life isn't reason enough. Then me, internally. Well, I'm arrogant enough to love myself more than anyone or anything else. I'm extremely selfish. Me and my selfness is the two things that mean the most to me. Thus, suicide would be ridiculous to even think of.

On the other hand, I am capable of predicting suicide, to a rather bothersome extent. For example, I prefer to wear long sleeved shirts because sometimes I can simply see or feel a knife or a pair of scissors cutting my wrists. The same happens with cars and trains. I can almost see myself in front of them, for a moment. It is quite a bothersome experience, specially since I shoudn't be going through anything of the sort, nor should I be able to either.
 

Zero

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I don't think I would try any of the traditional methods, so I don't know what the chance of my actual dying would be. I think if I were to attempt it, I would go a few days without eating and maybe some time without drinking (note it would have to be winter) then I would wander into the wilderness, take some sleeping pills (or potent painkillers) and fall asleep in the snow. I kind of know the area I would pick...

Anyway, I'm not sure how well that would work. I imagined the other scenarios and I suppose I'm a little afraid of the process itself, not so much the aftermath. My end- I think- would be due to stupidity. That's a little funny, when I think about it, I guess.
 
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Agapooka

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You know, hypothermia becomes painless fairly quickly. I read that some hypothermic victims go through a bizarre stage where they take their clothes off for no logical reason; aka, they weren't suicidal.

I've got to say, though, that whereas I used to see death as a better alternative to life, whilst depressed, I have found a better alternative: life in the wilderness. Alone with nature. Is there no greater ideal? Am I just romantacising it?
 

Gandalf

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Our human body has a built in function for survival. I think that people that are suicidal should be given support as sometimes yes it might be a cry for help but other times it could be very serious. I think it must be quite sad if someone over rules a natural built in instinct. That being said I would make that effort for someone I felt close to, the professionals would have to deal with a stranger as I am no Shrink .
 

CowSavior

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Well, Zakai, I think your response was very immature in the fact that you didn't consider why people might want to commit suicide. Although it is a horrible thing to think it, suicide is brought on by psychological problems. These problems can come from a variety of things ranging from a bad childhood to being harassed as a teenager. Some people have stronger minds than others. If someone goes through a traumatizing event and can't handle it, suicide seems like the easiest way out...

Suicide should not be considered.
It was'nt an immature response, it was an extreme response.
I find suicide to be completely detestible, and I hate when people get to the point were they just give up.
I hate more than anything when somebody quits anything.
Especially their whole entire life.
It's just pathetic.
I can't even stress how much I hate quiters. I don't really hate the actual person, but whenever somebody quits at something because they feel that they can't handle it, I just want to hit them.

I feel that anybody can overcome anything, and when I see people giving up at anything at all it's just heartbreaking, and very infuriating.

And yes, Olba, I am arrogant, but not ignorant.
I know why people would commit suicide, but I'm completely against it.
So I guess I am biased, but it's not really a bad thing when you consider the fact that I'm against people dying...
 

alierae

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Zakai - What I was trying to get at was the fact that most people commit suicide because someone elso has caused them hurt. IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT. They didn't want to do it but the psychological pain they suffered from someone else's actions pushed them over the edge. Their brains can't take all the emotions and feelings at the same time.

However, I do agree with you to some extent. For instance I just watched a special on TV about the most horrific acts of violence in the world and, in most cases, the person who was on a killing spree or was trying to hurt people killed themselves in the end because they didn't want to go to jail or suffer the conseuences. This is very pitiful in my opinion because they just decide that they don't have to suffer the conseuences of their actions and decide they will just leave the world.

I understand what you were trying to say now that you explained it and I apologize for criticizing you.
 

CowSavior

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From what I can see, you seem biased. First you say suicidal people are stupid, then you say you've never considered it. The first and most obvious conclusion from here is that you're extremely ignorant and arrogant. Then you go and claim that suicidal thoughts are somehow in correlation to lack of mental development, which is a false claim. By now, you're credibility is already pretty much zero. Now, since I already said that you're ignorant and arrogant, I doubt I need to take a single step to point out that you should rather just keep quiet.

Man, I have TONS of reasons to commit suicide.
My life has been falling apart for about 9 years.
I'm only 15!

My life is so bad, that when I hear of other people who have even worse lives than I do, it's just completely shocking that somthing could be that drastically screwed up.

The only reason why I'm still alive is because, as a christian(I'm in no way biased about religion. my mom actually gets pissed off that I even look at other peoples religion and try to see things from their point of veiw.), I beleive that one cannot get into heaven if they commit suicide, and that leaves hell, which is suposedly eternal.
So it would'nt be smart to sacrifice your short time on life for eternal torture...

And I never said people who commit suicide are stupid.
I said they're pathetic.

"I understand what you were trying to say now that you explained it and I apologize for criticizing you."
Yeah, not trying to be super contradictory or anything of that sort, but, you still don't get fully get it.
 

Olba

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Man, I have TONS of reasons to commit suicide.
My life has been falling apart for about 9 years.
I'm only 15!

And exactly what makes you think I would be interested to know this?

My life is so bad, that when I hear of other people who have even worse lives than I do, it's just completely shocking that somthing could be that drastically screwed up.

You know, people have a rather high tendency of exaggerating things that relate to themselves. Or to underestimate them, depending on the consequences.

And I never said people who commit suicide are stupid.
I said they're pathetic.

You said the following

I think suicidal people are pathetic.
I'venever even considered suicide.
It'sjust retarded

In your first post in this topic. Now, let's see. A few links to a very known and trusted online dictionary, just to make my point clear.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=79686&dict=CALD
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=67486&dict=CALD

As you can see, "suicidal" is equal to "consideration of suicide". You said that considering suicide is "retarded", which in turn is equal to "stupid or mentally slow".

Now, exactly what of that does not translate into saying "People who consider suicide are stupid"?

So you should pick your words with some consideration.
 

Radioactive_Springtime

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my best guess is that we end up trapped in out own mental prisons?
 

Wisp

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Ah. Zakai has been drawn from his shell of flippant responses. Most impressive, I must say.

However, I must tell you I can match your arrogance word for word.

~The Cynic
 

loveofreason

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my best guess is that we end up trapped in out own mental prisons?

That's about what I would have thought. Certainly it's a place I'm familiar with, and I imagined it may be harder for INT types to reach out of that prison. But I take Vrecknidj and Editor's point that there may be no statistical data on personality types and suicide, and probably no significant correlations were such data to exist...

still I wonder. I guess there are appropriate traps for every type of person, and any one of us may reach a point from which the only view is a hopeless one.

Perhaps an N type, though more inclined to entertain the possibility of suicide, would be less likely to follow through? We can think about it till the cows come home, but to take that one final concrete step; to never know what could have been... sounds like the prospect of that is simply too much.
 

Radioactive_Springtime

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That's why I'm still here
 

FleshySkeleton

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I've certainly thought of suicide during bouts of depression, but thinking about how many people would be happy/ profit at/ from my death (pessimists, people who hate my generation, people who use me as an example of why suicide is always the wrong thing to do, etc.) gets me angry enough to snap out of it. As an added bonus, I stop being depressed :P.

On a somewhat unrelated note: the death clock
Sadists beware! Pessimists too, although not so much.

Nice view. Dying early in itself is a depressing thought. But whats the use of it if all you become in another number, a statistic. I know thats what I'd like not to be.
 

Gandalf

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Nice view. Dying early in itself is a depressing thought. But whats the use of it if all you become in another number, a statistic. I know thats what I'd like not to be.

I agree, stick around longer and annoy them back. Kind of sounds like that quote about ' I wish long life to my enemies so that they may see all my successes' sounds like a plan.
 

Aphasia

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I agree, stick around longer and annoy them back. Kind of sounds like that quote about ' I wish long life to my enemies so that they may see all my successes' sounds like a plan.

Sounds like a thing I'll do. Thinking of suicide is fine, but I'd rather not commit to something mostly influenced by emotion, especially if I don't get to see what happens next.

Question: Did anyone use the death clock and get entertaining results? I'm not happy with mine. I plan to live til 2104 for certain reasons, not til 2063.
 

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Mar 24, 2008
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95
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Yes, apparently I'm going to die on Thursday, October 26, 2056.

I'm not nessesarily sucidal in the fact that I wouldnt do anything about it, but a lot of the time I think that I wouldn't care if I got hit by a car or something and died, and sometimes I hope more than others.

I wouldn't kill myself for the same reason as FleshySkeleton, I don't wan't to become another number. That and I don't tell anyone anything, so they'd all have their own ideas about why I did it, and I wouldn't be around to tell them how wrong they are.
 
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