Star Wars: The Last Jedi Trailer (Official)

[Black Rose]

December 15, 2017

Star Wars: The Last Jedi Trailer (Official)

 

[Jennywocky]

yeah i saw it last night.

I didn't think there was anything really shocking or spoilery about it, it's pretty much the kind of stuff one could guess. It also had the crap edited out of it (i.e., was full of cuts), so it's likely a lot of it was reassembled to be misleading where possible.

 

[onesteptwostep]

What was that old wrinkly alien thing?

 

[Jennywocky]

Who, Snoke? The "superbad" of the new trilogy?

... I just wanna know who left that screaming puffin muppet in there.... dear god, i thought the spirit of the ewoks had been crushed beyond repair....

 

[Pyropyro]

This creature needs hugs. Lots of it.

[bimgx=300]http://www.indiewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/thelastjediporg.jpg?w=780[/bimgx]

 

[Mxx]

Goddammit, no one at INTPx created this thread. I'm so hyped that it looks like Fag boy is going to kill his mother.

 

[The Gopher]

Goddammit, no one at INTPx created this thread. I'm so hyped that it looks like Fag boy is going to kill his mother.

Hey that's offensive! We haven't had a good banning in idk a week! Tell RB he's slacking at his new role of free speech manager.

---------

Honestly while I hate the character I think we need more characters like Kylo from a realism perspective. Just not like Kylo.

 

[Cognisant]

Emo Edgelord.

 

[Mxx]

Hey that's offensive! We haven't had a good banning in idk a week! Tell RB he's slacking at his new role of free speech manager.

---------

Honestly while I hate the character I think we need more characters like Kylo from a realism perspective. Just not like Kylo.

Oh shit, I'm probably going to get banned pretty soon then. Ha.

I call Kylo a fag boy because I'm pretty much like him myself sometimes. Except I don't have anything swinging between my legs.

 

[Jennywocky]

Oh shit, I'm probably going to get banned pretty soon then. Ha.

I call Kylo a fag boy because I'm pretty much like him myself sometimes. Except I don't have anything swinging between my legs.

ya know I'm not sure he has anything swinging between that figurative white belt and those checkered Vans either....

 

[Pyropyro]

...
Honestly while I hate the character I think we need more characters like Kylo from a realism perspective. Just not like Kylo.

I like Kylo. The fact that his mere existence triggers a lot of SW fans says a lot of said fans.

 

[QuickTwist]

Going to try and seen this one actually. I did like the first 7th one.

 

[Joe13414]

Mark Hamil aparently hates the script, so I know its gonna suck cannon wise.
May the force be with you

 

[QuickTwist]

Mark Hamil aparently hates the script, so I know its gonna suck cannon wise.
May the force be with you

How do you know he hates the script? All I heard is that he thought it was interesting that the director was taking it in the direction he was.

You're right about the cannon thing tho. I just watched The Force Awakens again and found a few holes.

Honestly tho, I am most concerned about the 9th movie because they could really fuck that up big time.

 

[Black Rose]

Forum comment tools still not working.


Duel Of The PORGS

Duel Of The PORGS - Made With Porg Sounds!​

 

[The Gopher]

This is now a discussion thread. Thoughts?

 

[Puffy]

Original very popular and innovative series gets milked for all its worth. Fans go and complain it's not as good as the original. The endless cycle of suffering and samsara continues.

Spoiler

 

[Jennywocky]

I am not sure what there is to discuss.

It's not even really clear what the final movie of the trilogy will even be about, with the clearing of much of the board needlessly in this movie, some of the fake emotion, and so on.

I think the most interesting part has always been the parallel track of Rey and Kylo. They come from very different backgrounds (name presence, family, respect levels), education levels (one is trained, one is not), they both are tempted by aspects of the force, they have both responded to disappointments in very different ways, and they have different priorities. Yet they have this connection and some sense of responsibility to each other -- it's personal, not detached. That's one of the few things the middle movie does right, at least, and provided some support to continue exploring later.

I still wish there had been more followup on the intriguing idea from the first movie -- instead of the Dark trying to seduce Anakin and Luke, we sense the Light trying to seduce Kylo to return and he's fighting against that. I wish that had been obviously explored in this last movie, but instead it's mostly about power/authority dynamics... more externalized/systematic, rather than more psychological.

 

[Cognisant]

Considering this is now a discussion thread I hope nobody's going to complain about spoilers.

Kylo killing Snoke was good, he was a stupidly overpowered character with no motivations or background aside from "mwahahahaha I'm evil".

I wish Rey had accepted Kylo's offer on the condition that he let the rebels go, this would give them a believable escape, the Rey/Kylo ship the movie keeps hinting at would be less stupid, and best of all it sets up Finn/Poe having to contend with two incredibly powerful force wielders, the film finishing with "The New Order" being the most powerful force in the galaxy (despite another massive logistical loss, seriously how well funded are they?).

 

[The Gopher]

Considering this is now a discussion thread I hope nobody's going to complain about spoilers.

Kylo killing Snoke was good, he was a stupidly overpowered character with no motivations or background aside from "mwahahahaha I'm evil".

I wish Rey had accepted Kylo's offer on the condition that he let the rebels go, this would give them a believable escape, the Rey/Kylo ship the movie keeps hinting at would be less stupid, and best of all it sets up Finn/Poe having to contend with two incredibly powerful force wielders, the film finishing with "The New Order" being the most powerful force in the galaxy (despite another massive logistical loss, seriously how well funded are they?).

I think the backstory is supposed to be.

Old empire and new republic stop fighting make peace and the survivors and separate about 5 years after starwars 6, so they have like a good amount of the universe and the republic has a good amount of the universe. So being a well funded military operation makes sense, not everything is tied up in the fleets but you can bet a large part of it was almost like the federation vs old republic but on a smaller scale. One more massive defeat and they'll probably run thin on resources though. (last movie)

Now the part that doesn't make sense, in a universe that large, that the blowup 5 systems completely cripples the entire republic and they have no army at all and can't contend with the new order at all. (Now you could say they are just staging at this point and all their ships will become the new resistance/republic but I feel like that's too much credit)

I think it's just underdog syndrome. They need the rebels to be the small underdogs that band together so people like them more.

Also I personally loved the hyperspace jump and liked most of the movie for the experience if not the technical aspects. Now my "internal cannon" has hyperspace blockers or some shit installed on most planets and the drives are coded to not jump into planets for the random ones with nobody on them so people don't jump into a planet and just blow it up. Kinda like a safety mechanism. As for why all space battle isn't just hyperspace torpedo's...

 

[Black Rose]

Empire Strikes Back: The Last Jedi Edition

Empire Strikes Back: The Last Jedi Edition [SPOILERS]​

 

[Jennywocky]

I think the backstory is supposed to be.

Old empire and new republic stop fighting make peace and the survivors and separate about 5 years after starwars 6, so they have like a good amount of the universe and the republic has a good amount of the universe. So being a well funded military operation makes sense, not everything is tied up in the fleets but you can bet a large part of it was almost like the federation vs old republic but on a smaller scale. One more massive defeat and they'll probably run thin on resources though. (last movie)

Now the part that doesn't make sense, in a universe that large, that the blowup 5 systems completely cripples the entire republic and they have no army at all and can't contend with the new order at all. (Now you could say they are just staging at this point and all their ships will become the new resistance/republic but I feel like that's too much credit)

I think it's just underdog syndrome. They need the rebels to be the small underdogs that band together so people like them more.

Also I personally loved the hyperspace jump and liked most of the movie for the experience if not the technical aspects. Now my "internal cannon" has hyperspace blockers or some shit installed on most planets and the drives are coded to not jump into planets for the random ones with nobody on them so people don't jump into a planet and just blow it up. Kinda like a safety mechanism. As for why all space battle isn't just hyperspace torpedo's...

Lucas and now these movies have always been kind of light on a sense of how this works on a galactic level. Like, it's so focused on a few small events, but the universe is huge and apparently there are lots of planets and we never get a sense of everything that could be going on elsewhere or how rule of law is enforced.

I mean, do the lives of 400 people really matter? And if they die, will anyone hear about it? I mean, who cares? There are probably pockets of 400 people scattered all over each planet, let alone the galaxy. We got no sense that this group was coordinating with anyone. It all just feels so dumb, like small people have their small pocket war in a small corner of the universe and claiming it affects everyone.

Yeah, light-speed bombing. As long as you can AIM properly... sure. But I'm not sure how much a light-speed drive costs, maybe it's not productive use of resources.

 

[Black Rose]

 

[Black Rose]

I mean, do the lives of 400 people really matter? And if they die, will anyone hear about it? I mean, who cares? There are probably pockets of 400 people scattered all over each planet, let alone the galaxy. We got no sense that this group was coordinating with anyone. It all just feels so dumb, like small people have their small pocket war in a small corner of the universe and claiming it affects everyone.

The base they began with had shields and it was the same base as the base in ray left Fin. At least 800 people were on the base. Again the base should have had good shields if it was next to the 4 planets of the core republic. The new base they were going to had base shields and so Kylo Ren had to land on the salt lake bed. It makes no sense that they went to the second base when the first base had shields.

By the way, only 40 people could fit on the millennium falcon. 760 of 800 people died. And they were the main army of the republic?

The pace of the movie could have been better because epic lines were said out of the wrong moments and made comical not epic. Luke should have faced up to the dark side. Kyle should have killed his mother. "who are You, - I'm no one" should have made relevant to Rey's story. Luck should have helped Rey face the dark side.

The bright side is that the trailers still send chills down my spine.

 

[Cognisant]

I think the backstory is supposed to be.

Old empire and new republic stop fighting make peace and the survivors and separate about 5 years after starwars 6, so they have like a good amount of the universe and the republic has a good amount of the universe.

It feels like we missed a whole movie that explained where the First Order came from (indeed what is the "First Order" they're named after? Order 66 or was the Empire itself considered the first time the universe was orderly?) and the establishment of the New Republic, I think our intro to the New Republic was the moment they were blown up by the First Order's knock-off deathstar.

 

[Jennywocky]

The base they began with had shields and it was the same base as the base in ray left Fin. At least 800 people were on the base. Again the base should have had good shields if it was next to the 4 planets of the core republic. The new base they were going to had base shields and so Kylo Ren had to land on the salt lake bed. It makes no sense that they went to the second base when the first base had shields.

By the way, only 40 people could fit on the millennium falcon. 760 of 800 people died. And they were the main army of the republic?

the 400 number was used in the movie at some point.

But yeah, it's still minuscule compared to the population of the thousands of planets involved.

The bright side is that the trailers still send chills down my spine.

The trailer was okay, but I've seen better.

The cave sequence was creepy but I'm still not even sure what it means even on an abstract level. It was simply viscerally creepy.

Like I said before, the licensees have actually written far more compelling and interesting stories that make more sense. It just boggles my mind. Even Rogue One had a more cohesive story; this felt more like a few big moments that were desired in a film, cobbled together with gum or something, without much sense of the big picture.

It looks like TLJ has one of the biggest second week drops in box office history.

 

[QuickTwist]

I finally saw it today, so I had been avoiding this thread due to spoilers.

I thought it was Good. I think it could have been great, but there were a few things that rubbed me the wrong way.

I think I saw OSTS talk about how he didn't really get the overarching theme of the movie (It could have been Jenny tho). Overall, I think this film is about heroism - conquering your demons to rise to the occasion in the face of when you are questioning yourself. For this purpose, It does a pretty good job getting that idea out there. You see it with pretty much any character who is worth a damn in the movie (except snook, but that's because ~reasons~).

What I could have done without:

• Trade in all that humor for more solid story telling
• Get rid of that damn furry penguin. The only decent time I can think this animal was used well in the whole movie was when Luke was talking to Ray when she was reaching out and Luke was talking about the dark and the light and there was a clip of one of their nests that got destroyed by a crashing wave. True this wouldn't have the same effect if they were a (more) minor role, but that whole scene reminded me of a nature show and I don't think this animal really needs a plot line. I thought that animals only purpose was to give chewy a purpose (and to sell dolls of the wretched thing to kids), which I thought was pretty lame.
• Get rid of those damn keepers who looked like something straight out of a mix between an oompa loompa, a Star Wars alien and Little House on the Prairie. In the first one, The Force Awakens, it made it seem like Luke was really just a hermit basically being the only living creature on that whole Island and I think the movie would have been better off if that was the case.

What I actually liked quite a bit:

1. Characters where incredibly human with faults and shortcomings that made them feel real.
   • Luke being "scared" by Kylo Ren in many ways throughout the film - enough that it changed his judgement of things.
   • Kylo killing Snook. Thought this was done very very well. Especially when Snook says to Kylo to kill his "worst" enemy because let's face it, Kylo was basically a pin cushion for Snook. What proceeded after that moment of unity for Kylo and Rey was also really well done. I thought it was appropriate that Kylo had created this bond with Rey and Kylo gunna be Kylo and Rey gunna be Ray and the end up on different sides.
   • Loved when Yoda made an appearance. I thought that was a brilliant use of the story and how Yoda "destroyed" the Jedi Texts and that Luke got it wrong (see A) and the Jedi Texts were actually with Rey.
   • Loved the line by Leia where she says "the spark is gone". You could just feel like she was just out of hope, which I think is very realistic given all that the rebellion and her personally had faced. It was done with conviction, which I think was a big pro to that scene.
2. Some of the acting was actually pretty good IMO.
   • Rey's tears and emotions were very believable when talking to Kylo
   • Luke just did a good job with pretty much everything IMO. It was the facial expressions that sold it for me.
   • Finn's facial expression just before he kamakazed into the cannon - that look of determination was unreal. The scene that followed with what's her name (the girl with the emblem) was well done as well. It was kinda Ironic tho considering what her sister did and that's that part I don't like about it, but she really did have a thing for Finn so I thought it was still kinda appropriate and realistic.
   • See 1 D. Leia really did do a good job with the film as a whole. I liked her better in this one than The Force Awakens. Some of the scenes with Han were a little weird IMO. Really like this short little seen where Leia was visibly depressed due to getting hit so hard after Poe's determination to take down that one big battleship (destroyer? I'm bad with names)
3. The plot was actually pretty good IMO.
   • Rebellion holding out hope (with moments of discouragement) and getting absolutely destroyed, Luke being hopeless and then sees hope for the Rebellion at the end.
   • Rey's story arch is likable all on it's own. Loved the scene where she goes down below and Sees herself (callback to the original trilogy where Luke sees himself after killing Darth Vader when he is training on Master Yoda's planet). Don't know what this means yet, but it was pretty cool tho.
   • Finn's story arch also pretty good, especially combined with what's her name (who dies). Liked that other callback to when Finn was fighting with his former commanding officer and "falls" only to come up in a dominant position as the ship they are on gets destroyed.
   • Poe's story arch is not bad either because I find it both typical and appropriate that he is this gung ho guy that just wants to take it to the enemy and he's a hell of a pilot, but he just doesn't have the "leadership" qualities to make smart decisions (both tactical and strategic) while out on the field.

That's my subjective opinion. I am not a movie buff and don't really know stories that well, but that's what I came up with, anyways.

 

[Jennywocky]

Kylo killing Snook. Thought this was done very very well. Especially when Snook says to Kylo to kill his "worst" enemy because let's face it, Kylo was basically a pin cushion for Snook. What proceeded after that moment of unity for Kylo and Rey was also really well done. I thought it was appropriate that Kylo had created this bond with Rey and Kylo gunna be Kylo and Rey gunna be Ray and the end up on different sides.

Stuff like "kill your worst enemy" was so freaking on the nose. It was already clear from the first movie that Kylo felt like a slave to Snoke and was regularly abused by the man, and here he just went and rubbed his nose in how stupid Kylo was (where Kylo thought HE was talking to Rey, and Snoke was like, "Yes, you foolish boy, it was me who made it work; I just used you." I mean, was it already not clear that Kylo needed to kill Snoke and hated Snoke on some level, as yet another father figure who pushed him down and didn't really give a shit about him? Did anyone in the audience think he would actually kill Rey, who he had a connection with? Or would he kill this scumbag mentor who was a real danger to both of them regardless of their alignment? It was kind of a ho-hum that he tried to kill him; it was kind of shocking only in that he succeeded with a silly trick like that and that after all the Snoke setup, the script just tosses him out with the trash abruptly.

I think I expected more nuance from Johnson because his other directing work has been more skillful. You don't need to telegraph a bunch of shit as if viewers are stupid. So much of this script felt like it was aimed at 12 year olds, with all the extraneous / non-organic humor, the superficial / on-the-nose dialogue, the little "p[uffin]-woks", the clumsy "luke as grumpy old get off my lawn" guy, the mostly lack of real tension.

When I see praise for this movie, it seems more about what people are layering into the film things their own feelings, versus what actually is there on the screen. Like, sure, Leia's "hope" is admirable, but I'm not looking for someone who is hopeful, I'm looking for characters who feel real (of which "hopeful" can play a part), and while she is one of the better characters in the film, her lines all felt canned and like I was reading an inspirational calendar. Just shut up already. Be a real character. They couldn't even let her die in peace but had to break the established rules by giving her powers as plot armor on a level never hinted at by any part of the story previously.

Or whassername telling Finn she loved him -- she doesn't even know him and she went straight from hero worship to thinking he was a scumbag traitor to now loving him... when the gravitas of the that final scene actually would have involved the writer allowing him to sacrifice himself. That would have given SOME weight to things even if it would have been a waste of the character considering how much buildup he got in the first movie and here he was kind of sidelined. Or is she dead now? I wasn't sure, but if she isn't... well, once again, a lack of realism and gravitas.

All I really ask for is some coherence in character arcs and prior episodes of the story, but... I'm not really sure what this was about. It's not like the ideas were bad, it's just the implementation that was truly lacking.

EDIT: Here's a decent rundown of some of the problems (I don't agree with ALL of the complaints but the huge majority are ones I had). There are some solutions offered, and they're generally pretty good; obviously there are various solutions to these problems, but these work.

http://www.looper.com/101437/last-jedi-even-better/

 

[QuickTwist]

Hey, thanks for the link. I thought that was a pretty good rundown. I didn't like the last section tho because who's to say that the planet that Luke and Rey are on are based on a 24 hour cycle? Besides that it seemed fine.

 

[QuickTwist]

I think if you compare this movie to Lord of the Rings there is really no comparison. LotR was done so much better that it's not even funny.

 

[The Gopher]

It looks like TLJ has one of the biggest second week drops in box office history.

I mean to be fair the timing of Christmas is awful, with Disney owning everything they have to spread the releases out so they don't compete with themselves.

Also onto light speed bombings, It's certainty productive. Given that if it works you're blowing up a fully functional ship of a larger size with it's own light speed drive it's very cost effective compared to your cheap purpose built no life-support required torpedo. Now the difficulty of pulling it off is for sure an issue but if you miss you just go into light speed and can try again later.

It completely breaks space combat unless you come up with a device or mechanism which stops it working usually, and I mean it's star wars I'm sure you could do that. They exist in universe however their existence stops people from jumping to light-speed which is necessary for so many things. So you need the mechanism to only work at really close range or something.

See a lot of other things you can explain away, like banking and spaceships flying like planes, could be a computer emulating in atmosphere like flight in space so pilots only need to learn one control style. Almost any plot hole can be filled, but it's a pretty difficult one.

 

[QuickTwist]

I also would have liked to see a bit of visual shame from Poe after what'shernameimportantbutthrowawaycharacter actaully did have a plan.

 

[Black Rose]

This was the most emotional and epic scene in The Force Awakens.

This is what Star Wars is all about.

The Last Jedi had no character, no sense of cost nor sacrifice. It had no integrity.

When ray gave Luke the lightsaber he should have dropped it in front of himself and then walk away showing his brokenness on his face that he could not believe in the force anymore.

Instead, he tossed it behind him with a grumpy old man face.

----------------------------------------------------------------

look at the video with Rey and tell me you feel nothing from it.

Nothing in the last Jedi can match this clip.

Star Wars VII The Force Awakens- Rey vs Kylo Ren Lightsaber Fight Scene​

 

[Jennywocky]

I think if you compare this movie to Lord of the Rings there is really no comparison. LotR was done so much better that it's not even funny.

And I didn't even like a lot of Lord of the Rings either because of Jackson's crazy excesses / fantasy clichés rather than just focusing on Tolkien's narrative.

Well, the first movie was enjoyable at least....

----

Yeah, "whassername".... just crappy execution of that whole subplot. It was very clumsily handled. What are we supposed to learn from that anyway? That the bitchy person in charge who seems to have no idea about anything and acts like a jerk actually does have a plan and instead of her being a shitty leader in conveying her intentions, Poe and those guys should feel like schmucks for not trusting her shitty leadership?

There were so much "bad" narrative/character development here. You've got to actually create emotional arcs for characters that feel compelling and that people can identify with, not just flip things around in a plot. I still don't get how Johnson could put this out, he's done better work on scripts in the past.

 

[QuickTwist]

And I didn't even like a lot of Lord of the Rings either because of Jackson's crazy excesses / fantasy clichés rather than just focusing on Tolkien's narrative.

Well, the first movie was enjoyable at least....

What do you mean by fantasy cliches?

But don't get me started on the 'Shadow of' series.

 

[Jennywocky]

What do you mean by fantasy cliches?

Tolkien essentially started a jump on fantasy pop culture which started in the 70's. It was taken over by the gaming industry in particular (tabletop and then computer games, although movies as well). Once all of this had sat and churned out a bunch of derivative generic stuff, Jackson churned out the Lord of the Rings movies using all the clichés of fantasy rather than going back to the more unique voice of Tolkien. It's kind of like inbreeding at its worst.

(Jackson also had a shlock horror movie fixation that he kept tossing into LotR, whether it was the orc sequences or the Halls of the Dead or whatever else... he gave it heavier weight and focused on it a lot more / added the special effects / visceral approach to practical effects horror makeup and design.)

Like, pretty much all the shit where he had to extrapolate the White Council and its members was made up by him and/or did not embody actual magic from Tolkien at all. The balrog just looked like a giant video game boss, not an embodiment of actual evil. Jackson just did not have the subtlety to pull it off. His wizards were at best just D&D wizards, and at worst were just old men beating on each other with sticks; Tolkien's concept for the Istari were that they were angels incarnated into flesh (which imposed on them certain limitations and frailties that cloaked their actual essence), but Jackson again has trouble with suggestion and allusion, he has to literalize everything and in effect make it crass. Radagast was made into a joke. Galadriel had to get all freaky weird with special effects and crap, rather than being enigmatic and a bit unsettling because of her presence.

The first movie wasn't nearly as bad, it in general still caught a lot of what Tolkien was about, but then it just started to get more and more afield although some parts were okay. Since I know the story so well (it was the first major literary work I was into, I read it for the first time in fifth grade and then wore my books to pieces), while there were some things that were great (like Gollum), the deviations and trivialities really grated on me.

 

[QuickTwist]

I can't imagine what you thought of The Hobbit series. At least that is the way I feel about the Hobbit series. Was very take it or leave it sorta to me. I didn't actually read these books until after I had already seen LotR by Jackson, but I read the Hobbit before the Hobbit movies came out. I don't think I even saw the last one.

 

[Black Rose]

This is not going to go the way you think.

Star Wars: The Last Jedi Trailer (Official)

I only know one Truth,
The time for the franchise to end.

Film Theory with MatPat

Film Theory: How Star Wars Theories KILLED Star Wars: The Last Jedi!

I need someone to show me my place in all this.

Star Wars: The Last Jedi Official Teaser

The force, is calling to you, just let it in.

Star Wars VII The Force Awakens- Rey vs Kylo Ren Lightsaber Fight Scene

Something inside me has always been there but I need help.

Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer (Official)

 

[Niclmaki]

As a standalone - it is passable as an action movie.

As a star wars main trilogy episode, it is a slap in the face to everything that has come before it. Even the prequels didn’t disrespect it as much. This “starwars” movie only slightly felt of starwars. It was as if the canon was not even researched.

Objectively, it has a lot of plot holes, bad pacing, bad writing, and was politically loaded*.

*I’m not against politically driven movies, but Starwars was never agenda driven before, and it does not age well. It has always just been “The Heroes Journey” in space. Its social commentary isn’t even done well though, just “on the nose” and crude.

 

[Black Rose]

Laura Dern doesn't understand subversion [Star Wars: The Last Jedi]

 

[Jennywocky]

As a standalone - it is passable as an action movie.

As a star wars main trilogy episode, it is a slap in the face to everything that has come before it. Even the prequels didn’t disrespect it as much. This “starwars” movie only slightly felt of starwars. It was as if the canon was not even researched.

Objectively, it has a lot of plot holes, bad pacing, bad writing, and was politically loaded*.

I agree with all that. The alt-right didn't like it either, because of political undertone + deviating from their script; I don't really care about either side at all. I guess if a movie can make comments that are "political" in a way that meshes with the story, then that's fine; but not when the movie just looks like a statement on current political drama (unless it's meant to be parody). As you mention, it's not even done well.

Spoiler

For example, what was the point of Laura Dern's opaque behavior ? was it supposed to suggest women actually know what we are doing? How it came off was just as bad leadership, like a mother figure treating those under her like unruly children who just kept giving the "I know what I'm doing" when it should have been clear it did not look that way, and to not share more information or lead in a different style to pull everyone together. So she gets a big moment later... but it's too little, too late,
and doesn't fix the fact her leadership sucked. But the movie chooses to blame others.

From an artistic/creative POV the film was kind of null (despite an occasional moment that felt as if it had gravitas), and as part of a trilogy is where its awfulness really was most noticeable. I feel bad as a Rian Johnson fan-girl. I talked the movie up before release, when people who hadn't heard of Johnson were skeptical, because I believed in and really enjoyed his other work. But he really made no attempt to be part of a larger story here; apparently he's a really shitty team player. And even if it comes out later that some of what we were shown were lies of some kind, it's not really going to change that because it just didn't mesh on a larger arc.

Still advising for thoughtful Star Wars stuff, to focus on the work of licensees (like the SWKOTOR / STTOR game series), or some of the books and comics and such... although now things are kind of retconned / non-canon.

 

[Black Rose]

How Star Wars The Last Jedi Should Have Ended

Reys training still needs expanding upon.

Like how she could not breathe? what caused that? Did it come from the dark side? There needs to be an entire hour added to the movie just to get in Jedi lore and exposition.

What do you see, I see light, darkness, and the balance.

God Fucking Damn it, what is the balance. Why is it so mystical. What makes luke believe the Jedi should end. The cycle between light and dark? If the Jedi end the sith end which destroys the cycle of light and dark. No Jedi means no Sith. But then the books in the temple reveals the force will bring about Rey because of the force. Then Rey somehow defeats Snoke by remembering to breathe because the dark and light is in and out, breath. She remembers the dark in her and counters Snoke with transparency. Force push goes pass her knocking down Kylo Ren because the balance makes her inbetween light and dark. Kylo falls into the inbetween only after he fails to defeat the resistance at the end of the movie. Episode nine goes into the something about a dark inbetween and a light inbetween. Rey is reading the books from the temple opening scene.

 

[Jennywocky]

How Star Wars The Last Jedi Should Have Ended

Reys training still needs expanding upon.

Like how she could not breathe? what caused that? Did it come from the dark side? There needs to be an entire hour added to the movie just to get in Jedi lore and exposition.

What do you see, I see light, darkness, and the balance.

God Fucking Damn it, what is the balance. Why is it so mystical. What makes luke believe the Jedi should end. The cycle between light and dark? If the Jedi end the sith end which destroys the cycle of light and dark. No Jedi means no Sith. But then the books in the temple reveals the force will bring about Rey because of the force. Then Rey somehow defeats Snoke by remembering to breathe because the dark and light is in and out, breath. She remembers the dark in her and counters Snoke with transparency. Force push goes pass her knocking down Kylo Ren because the balance makes her inbetween light and dark. Kylo falls into the inbetween only after he fails to defeat the resistance at the end of the movie. Episode nine goes into the something about a dark inbetween and a light inbetween. Rey is reading the books from the temple opening scene.

Let's face it, the film was crap in terms of making any sense and conveying it to the audience. The image of multiple reflections of Rey, for example, was kind of eerie in the good sense but conveyed no actual information about what was going on. They were supposed to be telling a story, but if the story conveys no meaning to the audience to bring us into the journey, what is the point of it? It was just kind of shocking in how alternatingly trite, then opaque, everything was.